Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[Bricktoes]

1. never played here
2. i've played about three or four games on another forum. good news for everybody: i've never won!
3. i know abel from the other site i've played at and elsewhere. he invited me to play here.

[Bricktoes]

Let's skip the stupid discussion about how odds are slim I was chosen to be mafia on both rolls, shall we?

the odds are exactly the same each time, slim though they may be.

[Bricktoes]

i don't prefer a certain alignment as long as i get either a mafia or power role because i feel like i don't accomplish anything as vanilla town.

i have a couple questions. townies, what's your strategy? mafiosos, what is yours?

[Bricktoes]

having played with abel before and read his game on here, i don't find him exceptionally suspicious at this point. especially when a decent chunk of that comes from misreadings of his first post and speculation, which may be deliberately off or not. that said, i'm looking at whilst and cavjj the most at the moment. whilst for reasons already specified and cavjj for going after abel for the exact opposite of what abel said.

i'll try and go into detail tonight. i've been on my phone so far. i'll also answer any questions i haven't answered, including my own. i hope everyone answers their own questions too at some point. i'd also like more questions in general asked, but i suppose that can take some time.

[Bricktoes]

i suppose i was waiting for a stronger read, but i might as well

VOTE: CAVJJ

until i get on the laptop in a couple hours.

[Bricktoes]

EBWOP

Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....

Should read:

Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen at me for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....

There's a huge difference between a vote and a hammer. You're trying to say he's suspicious for voting for someone? You're either a bad scumhnter or obvious mafia or both.

[Bricktoes]

Hey whilst, can we get some of your reads now?

[Bricktoes]

Hey whilst, can we get some of your reads now?

Fair request. As soon as everyone posts their reactions to N1, I'll let you guys know how I feel on everyone.

Actually, let's not just leave the question just to me.

Once everyone has responded

, we should

all

post what we think of everyone. The responses + the knowledge of two innocent players should help make some decent headway.

Why wait? Considering you've openly refused to share your thoughts, I'd like to hear something from you.

[Bricktoes]

some notes i wanted to keep in mind (i just woke up so these may be off): odds are 14.3% per player for seven. odds are 100% that at least one scum voted. 71.6% that scum voted for bbmolla. 41.9% that all scum didn't vote for bbmolla, or 28.6%. odds that both scum voted are 85.7.

cavjj

scumhunting mostly based on misleading misreads. promises post, only shows up to hammer.

As I have said, as scum, it has to be the most experienced N1 until a PR is revealed.

would you care to elaborate on this?

you also bring up a good point of how you've brought two players close to lynch. if abel's suspicious for a L-1 vote, so are you, and even more so. you can't put someone at L-1, then later hammer someone else and say that the person who voted before you is suspicious.

i am innocent

wouldn't it be hilarious if iai and abel were the scumteam? not getting much otherwise.

darkclaymore

However, considering it's my fifth mafia game and I yet to be scum even once...

as far as people discussing their likelihood of being scum.

we seem to be progressing along the lines of his night zero answer to abel. another pointless vote for bbmolla, besides hoping to end the day.

wickedjstr

i feel like you've done little aside from tell us how to format posts. please contribute more.

[Bricktoes]

oh, you don't have to elaborate on that particular quote, cavjj, i was just reading it wrong.

[Bricktoes]

I'm pretty annoyed by whilst's outright refusal to say anything. Abel, is this how he plays?

Abel, who would you have killed last night and why?

And looking at the activity, with Darkclaymore and Wickedjstr each posting less than Bbmolla and only more than Scumhunter, we need to hear more from them, or else.

vote: Dark Claymore

And I'll just leave this here in remembrance:

I personally am not a fan of day 1 as it's almost always a ML.

Never forget.

[Bricktoes]

Yeah. I get results. B)

[Bricktoes]

Also, for anyone not pretending day one's lynch was a good thing, who would you have preferred to lynch instead?

[Bricktoes]

Who are your scumbuddies?

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Not at all.

[Bricktoes]

I wish you thought that way more often.

[Bricktoes]

I'm not being patient because it feels too much like you're waiting for other people's opinions to agree with and bandwagons to jump on. Luckily that wasn't an option for you here. How about those mistakes you were seeing before? Have they kept being made? Did someone scare off your suspect from making those mistakes?

[Bricktoes]

I didn't ask if you were scared.

[Bricktoes]

And you can answer the last part, it's a yes or no question. If a mistake was made more than once, say yes. There's nothing to potentially be given away. Are there even any mistakes that have been made, or was that just something to say so you could compare yourself to Napoleon? Have you noticed anything yourself or are you just going to keep waiting and then agreeing with everyone else?

[Bricktoes]

I'm not being patient because it feels too much like you're waiting for other people's opinions to agree with and bandwagons to jump on.

For someone who tries so hard not to show his hand, does it bother you at all that everything you've said is said first by other people? You don't want to stop mistakes from being made, but it looks like everyone else is doing that for you and it doesn't seem to bother you at all.

[Bricktoes]

Okay whilst, I admit I wasn't reading thoroughly enough and may have been too harsh in my reaction, but can you understand that it is frustrating when you won't post and then only post about two of the biggest suspects other people have? Not sharing what very well may be helpful is pretty anti-town.

[Bricktoes]

Abel, be more scummy so I can be less suspicious of you.

[Bricktoes]

I didn't unvote. Vote counts are reset after a lynching. I voted Dark Claymore today because he was the scummiest person I was looking at with the least posts. I voted him to get him to talk and I stand by that.

Vote: DarkClaymore

. Let's hear it, bub.

[Bricktoes]

It being more.

[Bricktoes]

On the other hand, people who try to catch attention with positive actions, like you, are very suspicious. If you are town, all you are doing is becoming night kill target.

if you actiively scumhunt, you're suspicious, gaining nothing for townj and going to die? way to threaten the guy leaning into you.

Vote: DarkClaymore

. I'll be leaving this 'til lynch.

[Bricktoes]

Here's a question: if you were scum, how confident would you feel right now?

[Bricktoes]

everyone

[Bricktoes]

so claymore, if i can call you that, how do you think your scumhunting is going right now?

[Bricktoes]

You have one vote on you.

[Bricktoes]

How confident do you think our mafia are right now? Do you think this town is heading in a good direction? Do you have any thoughts at all you'd like to share?

[Bricktoes]

I expected you to answer those questions since I was in a conversation with you, but I also left them open in hopes others would answer as well.

While the right thing to do as town is to try and prove him I'm town and put him back on the right track, it's not something I can do since many things I did - I did while knowing they would make me suspicious. Therefore I can't really defend against many of them as I find them suspicious myself.

So you did things knowing it would look like you weren't town? Of what benefit is that to the town? Were all of these scummy things addressed already or are there others?

[Bricktoes]

Has anyone slipped?

[Bricktoes]

X was a player about who everybody talked and discussed whatever he is scum. He was the "most suspicious player" that day. Aside of that, there was also player Y who many people suspected but didn't have anything to solid in order to make others follow them for a lynch so they didn't really stress it. But since in that voting pattern you can vote for whoever you suspect, people tended to vote for X

and

Y. Yet it turned out that actually Y got more votes because he was on more players' "suspects list" even though rarely was the first one.

My point is. It's not like individuals don't hit scum in their speculating, it's just, when we need to lynch together, people just prefer to vote in agreement with others so that we can actually lynch someone. So in that example, people would have voted X because "everybody talk about him and seem to suspect him" rather than Y because "no one really seems to strongly suspect him". That's why I believe many times weaker reasons are better to follow than the loud ones.

Every other active player has suspected you, even if you aren't at the top of their list. You're at best an ineffectual player who's done nothing to help town and according to you, may as well be lynched.

[Bricktoes]

he said he'd post today and he just got lynched, so he has no excuse not to be more active here. he's getting a vote after today, though.

[Bricktoes]

i get off work at ten and then i'll vote if he hasn't posted.

[Bricktoes]

Here's a question: if you were scum, how confident would you feel right now?

I guess that question would depend on who my teammate was.

speculate.

[Bricktoes]

I'm going to assume you put Wickedstjr at the top because of the fact that

he could be waiting for us to lynch each other

, and is not really missing in action. Am I correct? I'm asking because I've had the same rising suspicion. I don't think it's paranoia.

Inactives aren't helping anyone. If anything, they only cause harm.
And yes, the fact he didn't respond at all for such a long while makes me wonder whatever he assumes he won't be lynched even if he lurks. Scum or not, I don't like this kind of play. That and what I said before about him not being killed. Yeah, the weak reason.

what's the difference between being inactive and posting only to say what a bad job you're doing and how good you were in some other alleged game.

[Bricktoes]

at this point, based on how discussion has gone so far, does everybody think i'm town? if you have any criticisms, please lay them out.

should we also start lists of who we think are town so we can see who people are neutral on and better compare notes? don't necessarily do it yet, i'm just asking.

[Bricktoes]

You're actually third on my scum list. Now, do you think I'm town?

why is that? come at me, bro.

[Bricktoes]

Vote: Wickedjstr

.

[Bricktoes]

Oh, is this guy's name Wickedest, Jr.? I kept rreading Wicked Jester.

[Bricktoes]

Vote: NobodySpecial.

I hope you don't not post.

[Bricktoes]

I was 1% hoping you'd say something else, or someone else would say "omg whilst is scum because he said this", but no one did. The statement was pure BS, but really--no one else has called you out, I think you can safely answer your own question.

if you're fishing for reactions, you should probably go with it for more than one post.

[Bricktoes]

dicknose
————————
————————
Nobody Special
whilst
Honest Abel
cavjj
DarkClaymore
I Am Innocent

my verrsion.

[Bricktoes]

UNVOTE: DarkClaymore
VOTE: Nobody Special
, Singer.

[Bricktoes]

So I guess we aren't hearing from Nobody Special today? This is bullshit.

[Bricktoes]

Okay, then I think we should discuss whether to lynch DarkClaymore or Nobody Special.

[Bricktoes]

Unless we can get an IC who isn't modding three or four games aand playingg in five others.

[Bricktoes]

i was joking. i don't play to convince the skimming players, i play assuming everyone is reading everything i say attentively, as well they should.

i don't know how that would trick anyone skimming in any case. presumably they'd at least double check to see what the list was for, why it was formatted as such, and why or if someone was arguing a single townie game. i appreciate your help in settling the discussion at hand, though.

[Bricktoes]

you're right, my one post of nothing equals your whole iso

[Bricktoes]

you're right, my one post of nothing equals your whole iso

You have posted quite the amount of useless posts yourself. Amazing how Abel actually considers you most likely townie while me most likely scum due to not contributing.

alright. let's the two of us do a post recount of our own posts and each other's. i'll have mine up within twelve hours.

[Bricktoes]

i'm talking about counting pointless posts. the criticism lobbied against you is that you've made mostly or only pointless posts. you're trying to assert that because i've made several such posts, that i am just as bad as you are or that you are just as good as i am. since the criticism is defined by a matter of degree, quantifying it should settle the matter.

[Bricktoes]

whatever, i'm tired. you've been trying to make everyone who criticizes you seem unreasonable, you're claiming to try to be lynchbait in what seems to be an attempt for sympathy, you haven't made a post not related to yourself or your defense in a long while. you're wishy washy, far worse than whilst, and contributing little to nothing besides continued remarks about how people should be doing less or how hard and pointless our situation in the game is. darky, you just plain aren't good for this. i'm bored of working towards this. whatever the outcome, i wish you had gone before anyone else in the game, and when you're gone i'll be glad.

Unvote Nobody Special. Vote DarkClaymore.

[Bricktoes]

All I said is that Abel seems to jump on every thing I write

he's done to several players, you aren't special.

I just can't understand the logic in branding me scum and you town while the same reason could easily be used against both of us and for some odd reason is used only against me. If anything, at least make me scum and you neutral. Making you most protown like this just feels awfully off.

that would be bad logic except 1.) that isn't the only reason against you and b.) i'm town.

[Bricktoes]

for the record

dicknose
--------------------
Nobody Special
whilst
--------------------
Honest Abel
I Am Innocent
cavjj
DarkClaymore

goodnight.

[Bricktoes]

how old are you?

[Bricktoes]

we're quite aware of your preferences and how unfair this game is to you. what are your rreads and opinions? what does your town/scum list look like?

[Bricktoes]

why is whilst more scummy than me? for someone who thinks extreme playstyles are horrible you seem pretty intent on ignoring the ic.

[Bricktoes]

why am i scummy?

[Bricktoes]

One other thing I noticed in my skimming, Dicknose and DC's listing of townie to scum at first glance felt very sincere and how I'd imagine my list would look by D2/12 pages in. I'll discuss what I mean in more detail when I put together my list after fully catching up.

Read closer, our lists are nothing alike.

[Bricktoes]

As I said, I prefer to follow repetitive patterns rather than all these obvious reasons that never hit scum.

How much data do you have to back up these 'patterns'? Most of your points are either misrepresentations or inconclusive.

[Bricktoes]

According to the wiki, the jargon for Darky is VI.

[Bricktoes]

The way I read it, Village Idiot didn't speak to alignment,

What I was saying is that whoever survives a tie most likely isn't scum as scum should be able to easily save their friend.

How does this work?

[Bricktoes]

You said that tie survivors aren't scum because scum can save themselves. Following that, those who die in tie situations would be scum? In every situation you named, the easiest way for the scum to escape would be to shift votes and hammer the other person in a tie, meaning that the scum are most likely tto survive. And sure, scum could obfuscate things and make the tie situation more complicated, but that iisn't necessarily more likely. I don't know why you're bringing up this sort of example when it has never occured in this game, so your entire nonsensical situation has absolutely no bearing on this game. You need to start playing this game, including adjusting your play to suit this game (the game you are playing, the one on this site, not that one) or you shouldn't be playing this game.

[Bricktoes]

A vote tie.

[Bricktoes]

Two people at L-1 or three at L-2, apparently.

[Bricktoes]

How does acting like scum help you find scum?

[Bricktoes]

I refuse go take part in that hypothetical. You know who goes after scum? Everyone. Going after scummy players is not a scumtell.

[Bricktoes]

If you think someone is town, why say it out loud? Why not just keep it to yourself and keep observing the situation? You can never be too sure in mafia. They can always slip at some point. Saying you think someone is scum is protown as you point suspicion toward players that others might have missed. But saying you think someone is town is just useless to the town. You are convincing no one and no one will be convinced. All you are doing is, like I said, gaining town points and also possibly these players' trust.

But of course no one will agree with my way of thinking, like always, and will only think I'm more suspicious after this.

Why say it out loud? So people have a clear idea where you stand. So players who you think can help you in your win condition will survive. To fish for reactions. Every single one of these reasons: could motivate anyone of either alignment. You're right, there is uncertainty. There is also uncertainty of scum, and by your reasoning, just as much chance to mislead and just as much reason to stay quiet.

This is a major problem of yours and one you seem unable or unwilling to grasp: describing an action that could be taken by either town or scum and assuming it's scum doing it. That is weak reasoning. Decrying someone for misleading the town when there is no evidence of such is weak reasoning. Do you know why no one agrees with you? You don't make sense. Again: stop playing like this. It is dumb. It helps no one. You've admitted as much. Play better or just stop.

[Bricktoes]

I know it's just a list, but like I've said to dicknose before: cite your arguments.

A list is not an argument.

[Bricktoes]

I wouldn't wage a massive war against the player, I would let someone else do the arguing for me, but I would agree and hope my lynch helps the bandwagon fall through. Something like that.

Like how you aren't arguing with me but agreeing with Darky's points against me? Good job, scum.

[Bricktoes]

I think we found our scumteam, everyone.

And I think you found a scum who does exactly what I expect him to: avoid voting for the lynchbait in order to not look bad latter on.

He voted for you.

[Bricktoes]

Pretty nice question.

Oh man, that's a great reason.

[Bricktoes]

He voted for you.

But he isn't atm.

Show me where he unvoted you and I'll agree with your point and vote Abel.

[Bricktoes]

What method exactly do you use to become lynchbait, Darky?

[Bricktoes]

Giving reasons I know no one will follow seem to be the best method. You can't argue with the fact it's working. AT LEAST say you agree with this.

Ugh.

[Bricktoes]

Didn't you understand from what I was saying earlier?

LOL

[Bricktoes]

What I proposed was a method to clear as many townies as possible during D1.

But saying you think someone is town is just useless to the town. You are convincing no one and no one will be convinced. All you are doing is, like I said, gaining town points and also possibly these players' trust.

lingol

[Bricktoes]

The strategy worked. You can't deny that. I seriously don't get what's your problem.

Your strategy: "found" one scum, lynched no scum, left you without credibility, annoying.
The town's strategy: found three scum, lynched three scum, has various values for crebility and bearability.

[Bricktoes]

Nobody ever votes for anybody, huh Darky?

[Bricktoes]

The reasons that Darky finds whilst scummy had already been adressed in the first few pages. Tons of help.

[Bricktoes]

whilst

whilst has been playing the people pleaser. Despite the criticism BBmolla and I exchanged about our questions, whilst continually agreed with both of us about everything until post #50, in which he disagreed with both of us.

whilst

All I can say is that you did and you are still doing it. Pleasing both sides. Here you do it again by calling my theory "plausible". Maybe you really think so, and maybe you are scum. Since I have no better ideas atm - I'm willing to go with the latter.

why is whilst more scummy than me?

He did something that appeared like indirectly defending me while arguing with Abel.

[Bricktoes]

Appearing scummy will most likely not make me a night kill target, thus keeping me alive longer in case I manage to avoid lynch. Of course, you can claim that in a way it harms the town as I become a suspect and possibly draw attention away from the real scum, but I find it very interesting to see the reactions of people when it comes to lynching a player who plays like this. Scum tend to slip in such situations.

Scum tend to slip away like this a lot. Playing the "somewhat suspected" role which can be used as a reason to explain why the player wasn't night killed, while in the same time not being suspected enough to get lynched. A very simple and efficient scum strategy.

re: surviving

[Bricktoes]

I don't feel too confident as town or even I would have been mafia.

Well, obviously I'd say that Abel working so hard to make me look like scum is heading in the wrong direction since I'm town.

Of course, you can claim that in a way it harms the town as I become a suspect and possibly draw attention away from the real scum

*

You can lynch me if you want. ... it'll still be a townie lynch

*

How I hate when people say this... Well YEAH? I'm also town. What do you have to say about this? Huh? HUH?

[Bricktoes]

So you say it was all to please both you and me?
That's just going too far.
He can't just come and say he really suspects me and then, when I really become suspicious to ALL of you, he suddenly says "nah, I have nothing on you". Where did the previous reasons go to? What about the fact I created many new ones?

You just call that pleasing? I think that's going beyond it. Far beyond.

Not even my words, dude. Point is, his playstyle is noted. And we already saw what he's pulling on you when his reasons for calling me scum were "lol i can't think ahead."

[Bricktoes]

Darky, is English your first language?

[Bricktoes]

The only reason I did was Abel putting

too much

effort into finding why I'm scum.

How much is too much effort into winning the game?

So why exactly we let it slide?

The ppoint was to rebut that your playstyle has found scummy behavior or revealed whilst as scum. It hasn't.

You do realize you do something worse than me, right?

You're right, what you do is bad enough.

And I myself have nothing on IAI so I can't join the wagon. And of course since it'll be a lynch then I'm not allowed to do so anyway.

IAI is scummy for the same reasons whilst is, ScumClaymore.

As for calling my strategy a fail. You have no proof it failed as we don't know Whilst's alignment. Just because YOU don't want to agree with my theory doesn't mean it's ME who is wrong.

Your strategy revealed nothing new. You also admitted that it was usekess if revealed and not only continued playing by it after revealing it, but went after whilst long after your reveal.

And maybe I just hate norms and that's why I prefer to do unusual things.[/quolameThat's just lame.

[Bricktoes]

Once more, with clarity.

And maybe I just hate norms and that's why I prefer to do unusual things.

That's just lame.

[Bricktoes]

Norms are BS and I hate them. I really find it difficult to understand why people refuse so much to accept new things. If you haven't seen something as "strange" as my lynchbait play, I'd say you have seen nothing.

[Bricktoes]

Wow.

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Darky, you dodged my earlier question about your first language. Please respong. Follow up question: have you ever gone by the screenname Words of Ivory?

[Bricktoes]

Oh, you did. Still, follow up question.

[Bricktoes]

DC's case on whilst:

1) Pleasing both sides.

whilst has done this before, and it's been one of my main critiques of his play in the past. The other thing he used to do was assume a "style" of posting. One game, he was as much of a stubborn asshole as he could be. It was very anti-town. He's stopped doing that kind of thing, but he still seems to be trying to please people. Good point.

Is it a majority of people that think I am pleasing everyone? Or just Abel and DC?

I already said you were scummy for many of the same reasons as IAI is.

[Bricktoes]

I have no intention to hammer until I can review today's posts and compile my thoughts at a computer.

[Bricktoes]

Where did you get the idea that I had any intention to hammer or had whilst was in my top two?

[Bricktoes]

Cry more, and really: learn to accept my play style. "If he were town, I'd expect him to stop." -- why? You repeatedly bring up the same points. If you were town, I'd expect you to move on; and hey--you did. You posted a nice section about Abel, congrats.

I accepted it's your playstyle. I'm not like others here who hate accepting scummy playstyles be default.
Problem is, we all tell you "you make yourself look suspicious". You are

clearly

harming the town. I'd say that you are playing lynchbait as much as I did. So why won't you stop? If you are really town and want us to catch scum, you should stop making yourself suspicious needlessly. You are just making us go after you instead of the real scum in this case.

But no. You prefer to say "lol idiots, it's my play style. Get over it". That's NOT what a townie should do. If you were to care about the town at all, you'd try to change your ways. And no, it has nothing to do with the "general protown" idea. It's basic logic.

...

If I were to put it in an ironic way: he indirectly called himself stupid.

[Bricktoes]

I'd like if no one was lynched today since I'll be working the whole time. I can post late tonight. Thanks.

[Bricktoes]

Where did you get the idea that I had any intention to hammer or had whilst was in my top two?

Because the only interaction you've had with anyone outside of DC is whilst, and it seemed like you were suspicious of him or pointing out contradictions.

I admit I got a lot more sidtracked than I intended, but I've only brought up whilst recently in comparison with IAI, which is why that struck me.

[Bricktoes]

Since I have a minute right now, I've seen a few of you mention me tunneling Darky. I never intended to do so, I even told myself to stop several times, but in the end Someonw Was Wrong On The Internet.

[Bricktoes]

Tthat's also the most pathetic criticism of Abel you have.

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Ok, give me a few hours.

[Bricktoes]

I just want to say, in regards to IAI's activity, that until recently he had fewer posts than singer, which is too few I think. That was my only problem.

[Bricktoes]

Screw it, maybe I'm too tired but I'm not finding anything terribly important that hasn't been brought up already. I have a family breakfast in the morning, will try after.

I don't like that I have a null read on NS right now, essentially giving him a pass, but all he has are . I'm curious, how are you supposed to judge someone who replaces a lurker?

if I was going to vote based on the day as a whole, Darky should probably still take the plunge. Problem is, with his last post or two actually reasoning through his hunting, he would be more valuble than whilst, cav, and IAI.

IAI has a bad argument against Abel and some bad defenses in the subsequent discussion. He goes back and forth on several things, such as Bbmolla and his scumhunting methods. Also, so we're clear, are you saying one more mislynch before to mylo or one mislynch in total?

Whilst seemed either slightly scummy or the horrible player he was supposed to be until he started thumping his chest to get people to back off of him. A lot higher than he was, but I don't feel he's necessarily worth a lynch.

Cav has been too defensive then too quiet today as noted, and I'd like to get him here for a grilling. I can see the coaching explanation for his play making sense, especially as I can see Abel playing that way, though he isn't the only one who would and this isn't a strong reason against him. I'd also see Abel nightkilling Scumhunter to take out a threatening player while giving away little information. Again, not strong.

[Bricktoes]

So whilst, cav, iai from scum to scummiest, but I'd also be okay with a darky vote.

[Bricktoes]

Unvote. Vote: Innocent.

[Bricktoes]

I think we have a decent chance of getting mmore information tomorrow regardless of who's lynched. I suppose it's anyone's game now, bbutI'm also confident.

[Bricktoes]

Why so dead set?

[Bricktoes]

Spoiler: Response to IAI's 625

Post 570 (dicknose)

"I just want to say, in regards to IAI's activity, that until recently he had fewer posts than singer, which is too few I think. That was my only problem."

I believe I had more posts than the IC/IC replacee combined. But no mention there...

I actually mentioned it a couple times, including asking why we should put up with it. Nice try, slick.

Post 571:

"IAI has a bad argument against Abel and some bad defenses in the subsequent discussion. He goes back and forth on several things, such as Bbmolla and his scumhunting methods."
...
Please elaborate on the bad defenses. I want to know specifically what you have an issue with, esp since I went from only getting suspicion because of my post count from you in 570 to the scummiest player in your eyes per 572 with a vote in 573...

Post 570 was a comment solely on your activity. It made no mention of scumminess, and I don't think it's a great reason against you. 570 was all I had to say on the matter and I left it lie after that. 571 was a summation of my skimming that night, 572 was further summation, and 573 was action upon that since there seemed a push towards ending the day this weekend.

While we're at it dicknose, why did you not answer my question in post 478?

My last period of activity began with a "screw this, I'm going to bed." What do you think? I didn't think it was a terribly important question. I'm pretty sure I only voted Darky twice and that was for emphasis.

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Re Post 578 (cavjj)

That is the case you have on me? The reason that you now have 2 votes D2 and they are both on me? Scared to make too many enemies D2, so you go for the one that the IC and most talkative poster vote for prior to you jumping on 8/5.

He's actually been definite about you being scum since 8/2.

Oh, and half the stuff you bring up in 578 I have already addressed, like "How can you be so dismissive" on my surprise on why scumhunter was the N1 choice. So either you are not reading my posts or just rehashing arguments by others.

Part of his point is that he feels your posts are inadequate to explain your actions.

This guy is obv scum.

vote cavjj

It's nice that you two are so definite about each other's guilt. Nice omgus, there.

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I read through cav's iso to look at his interaction with IAI and I mostly agree with some of his points, while they are weak and kind of rough. About to hop in the shower for work, more posting to come tonight.

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I want to say, in case I end up not posting after work, that IAI's habit of posting false or mistaken things about people is pretty damning for someone who I believe agreed with Darky about misleading the town.

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Off the top of my head, the biggest post against IAI is one of his attacks on Abel where he sheeps a lot of Darky's complaints with far less reason. Darky argued with Abes a lot longer and seems to be an emotional player, so what little justification he had for feeling insulteed is a lot more than IAI had. The only emotion I've seen from IAI is pride in his win ratio, but based on his performance here I'm guessing a lot of luck was involved.

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Is a claim Necessary?

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Whilst or Darky, change your mind and declare intent to hammer.

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I'm eager for something new to happen in the game.

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I don't appreciate you disparaging my character.

Vote: Cavjj.

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Unvote.

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What am I responding to?

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cav was my number two, so i'll hammer. cav, claim.

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what are we waiting for, abel to change votee again? claim dude. i'll hammerwhen i get off of work.

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Who did you investigate?

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Really?

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Oh duh, Yeah, don't.

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Yeah, everyone on the whilst wagon now.

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whatevs.

vote: CavJJ.

we can reason that out with him gone.

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I don't see why wait, we have to go through a night phase before the game ends no maatter what.

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Well I guess if Abes is so sure he's gonna die we should keep him around.

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Unvote cavjj

for now

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I asked if a claim was necessary when IAI was at L-1. Last points two were not serious on my part.

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In H I think I only agreed with his points against IAI and I'd describe D as a request. Anything else ccould go either way depending on your interpretation.

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Singer: would the rolecop not be able to tell his partner his results until the following nigght?

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"Second to last" isn't as damning when it's synonmous with "second to first," chief.

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Are you drunk on wine, or power?

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Obviously his claim his bullshit. He essentially made three claims about our power roles, and in such a way that any of them could disprove his claim. Even if he had been a rolecop and found one power role night one he still made an assumption about the other potential PR slot. It's next to worthless to speculate on that without a little more information.

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The night lasts the full time in newb games.

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Yay.

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so who didn't want a shorter night?

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Also, usually, when I survive the night with a nokill, I say that it's because I was targeted by the mafia and a protection.

except in our last game when you were kept alive for being clueless protown and in your game on here where you were scum. no dice.

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dicknose was my #1 suspect once cavjj outted himself. He has done very little since cavjj outted himself, almost like he has felt the tides turn. I'm going to try my darnedest to keep an open mind during my reread tho...

except i've been posting less since long before that due to work. i'm sure you have far better reasons against me.

Fixed quote tags. <3
~singer

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i'll answer questions and be more detailed either tonight or in the morning.

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why am I lumped in there? knock it off. post incoming.

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whilst, I do not like the phrase "If I am mafia." cavjj said the same thing. You should not be saying this about yourself, it makes no sense.

you argued in our last game that not accounting for yourself was scummy. can you explain to me the difference?

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Vote: Honest Abel

you're ready to start voting? what are your reasons for thinking your investigation means abel is scum?

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and am i right in thinking this setup guarantees us at least one town power role?

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The way how Cav claimed to know the Jailer and how the Jailer was indeed the IC like I expected - fit each other too well.

So? What does that prove?

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I believe that Abel's reactions to what's happened are incriminating; he is trying desperately not to be lynched, while if you notice several other people are actually OFFERING THEMSELVES UP for sacrifice.
...
At this point, based mostly on Abel's reactions lately, I'm willing to lynch him and try to (if necessary -- which I don't think it will be) jail the proper player tonight.

So you had no reasoning to support him being scum at the time you declared him scum?

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For me, it makes assuming "scum knew NS is the Jailer" more likely. Hence, there was no point in targeting Abel at night over NS. And atm, Abel is clear only if we assume he was targeted at night by the mafia.

Ok. If that's true, scum could only be Abel, but the info leading to NS was that he's an IC. No reason to assume only Abel would investigate him based on that and, as we learned (thanks to Abes) on day one, everyone would have been gunning for NS at least for an investigation.

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I believe that Abel's reactions to what's happened are incriminating; he is trying desperately not to be lynched, while if you notice several other people are actually OFFERING THEMSELVES UP for sacrifice.
...
At this point, based mostly on Abel's reactions lately, I'm willing to lynch him and try to (if necessary -- which I don't think it will be) jail the proper player tonight.

So you had no reasoning to support him being scum at the time you declared him scum?

No. More of a gut feel. I took a chance, jailed him, now we have the results.

Why did you say you did?

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Still waiting.

I'm aware. I wanted to hear what NS had to say first.

I don't think much has changed in my reads. I tried reading the thread with my top suspects as either Abel or Nobody, but there's a few logical problems with seeing them as scum based only on NS's claim. The most I can say is that Abel looks a lot scummier for leading a wagon on Cav and then leading the wagon away once cav neared a lynch.

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I haven't reached where switches wagons in my reread. Circumstances may have been different.

I'd like Darky to go first.

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It matters to me in that I'd like who I find scummiest to go first. I don't know that I support your plan, however.

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Everybody, who would you have nightkilled last night?

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i would've killed Darky

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Out of annoyance.

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i'm interested, but feel free to summarize.

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fair enough, i assumed there was more.

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This is the third fucking time I'm making this post.

You say perhaps you wouldn't have targeted him, as strange as it is in my eyes. If there are others here who think the same, then I'll reconsider the whole thing.
...
And I'll consider #3 only in case I hear others saying they might have not killed the Jailer for some reason. Otherwise, even #2 is much more likely then #3 IMO.

Did you not read the last page? Out of five people who've declared who they would have nk'd, you're the only one who chose the IC. At most, only one of them is lying. Way to tunnel.

In response to your question: I was honest about nk'ing you. I would then make the argument that scum was trying to make me look suspicious for having tunneled you.

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If I were the rolecop, N1 would have been Cav and N2 would have been NS.

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Er, jailkeeper.

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Yet, I'd really hear how many here would have +80% killed the Jailer if they knew who it is. Because it's the only way I see to either prove or disprove that my assumptions are logical or not.

logic =/= true

Logic is a method of reasoning. It can be false.

Other than that, I'm not spending another day on you. VOTE: Darky. Anyone who wants to lose this sucker, join me.

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I am not even saying that and not part of my post even suggests that.

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Darky is insane.

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I am not even saying that and not part of my post even suggests that.

But you said it might be false. Isn't that the same as saying "What the heck you are doing relying on logic? You know it's not always true.". I just don't see any other way to interpret what you said.
And still not answer to my question.

Because something doesn't become logical just because it's true or because someone agrees with it. I don't see what more I have to add about why I was annoyed with you. Read Day 2.

If I were the rolecop, N1 would have been Cav and N2 would have been NS.

Er, jailkeeper.

And what was this about anyway?
Did you say who you would have jailed if you were the Jailer? I don't think anyone asked that

I'm sorry for volunteering information?

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I didn't see anything that implied you were annoyed. Let's say Abel sure expressed annoyance. But you? Didn't see anything like that.

whatever the outcome, i wish you had gone before anyone else in the game, and when you're gone i'll be glad.

As scum rolecop I would have investigated Abel N1 and whilst N2.

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He was inactive and, if scum, I would want to be sure Abel didn't have a power role. I'm also not included in that 'everyone' since I hadn't answered the question I was referring to.

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screw that noise. let's inform the minority.

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let's go people, chop chop.

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i can accept whilst.

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VOTE: whilst

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i don't know and no

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can a scum both roleblock and kill iin q singke night in newb games?

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to specify, i don't know any pros or cons that haven't been already stated. if we have another power role it can help us narrow the field, so i'm in favor of claim either now or first thing tomorrow.

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I suppose you and whilst are my top two.

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I haven't looked at that, will do later.

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if so, that would make me go whilst or abel.

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I'm more annoyed by him than I think he's scum right now

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I totally omgus for keeping my suspects from yesterday.

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Me taking you off and adding Abel was in response to Abel's post. If I found you innocent after reviewing what he mentioned, my list with Abel would be my revised list.

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i, obviously, am in favor of lynching anyone but me.

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I don't see how it's scummy. I don't expect anyone to feel they should be lynched. If you think lynching me will get the information you need, go for it.

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My suspects have been stated, mostly in order. Do I need to restate them?

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Abes, what did you find scummy about it?

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The part I exaggerated? Okay.

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You realize I was sarcastically rreferring to what IAI said, right?

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1.) IAI
2.) whilst
3.) Abel/Darky

I do not suspect NS.

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Abes does throw votes around willy nilly. Perhaps to distract from leading a wagon on his scum partner cav and then leading it away again?

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Screw ypu, claim.

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If this was at me, no, I didn't immediately make that connection (and re-reading IAI's last post, still don't exactly see it, unless I squint and tilt my head a bit).

dicknose who just wants to lynch anyone not named dicknose

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That is bs and I am leaning away from a whilst lynch, but not so mouch towards NS lynch. I'll be able to make a longer post late tonight.

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Sorry for the inconvenience. Good luck to everyone.

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I wasn't able to log on with my phone or my computer using my last password. These are what I use 99% of the time. That password apparently works on my mom's computer, but I rarely have access to it. I'd rather solve this issue before playing than not now if I can get on the site on a day to day basis.

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*not know

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congratulations, town.

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congratulations, town.

For a second, I thought I was going to get lynched. >>

Sorry about that.

Everyone played very well today, aside from the fakeclaim and several of you missing things that were said blatantly.

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BB, I look forward to actually playing with you.

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It was weak, and you could have done that anyway. Did you explain lynchbait earlier in the thread?

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I was never very concerned with the case against me, especially the points brought up the last day towards Xeras. Obviousky I'm biased towards my innocence, but does anyone besides IAI and Darky think they were damning?

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Why's that?