NY 187: Pariah's Mafia [/FIN]

[Aeronaut]

/conf

HEY ITS ALL MY FRIENDS YAY

[Aeronaut]

Cool

[Aeronaut]

Oh

[Aeronaut]

I mean I'm p sure votes don't count yet soooo

[Aeronaut]

Just as long as you look busy

[Aeronaut]

yea.

VOTE: Dragon

[Aeronaut]

Clearly scum.

[Aeronaut]

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

This ^ is what bothers me. A few votes into an RVS wagon and he's already guarded in this post.

So it's a serious vote for me. And it should be for you too.

[Aeronaut]

Although BBT's reason for joining is iffy.

[Aeronaut]

I gave a reason?

[Aeronaut]

Wagons are good for information and it's a great way to start any game.

Thanks mr. IC!

[Aeronaut]

Saying omgus is defensive?

No, not really.

I thought about it and I shall make that wagon on that good old dragonspawn a little bigger (Too much rhymes FTW)

VOTE: dragonspawn

So, you were happy with your RVS like two posts before this. What makes you change your mind?

VOTE: sword master

Anyone who is called master has to be evil

VOTE: sword master

Anyone who is called master has to be evil

VOTE: Dragonspawn
Anyone who is called spawn is evil!
Confirm

I mean, I don't even think it was OMGUS, more like "you too". Though it wasn't saying OMGUS that the bandwagoners are latching onto, but the post after:

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

The tone isn't really that defensive -- it actually sounds fairly relaxed -- though the meaning behind it is, in the end, defensive. At least, that's what it looks like, I think.

If my understanding of what OMGUS may or may not mean is incorrect, please, someone correct me.

It's not about the OMGUS mention at all, it's the post where he's like "Oh you're voting me and not providing reasoning in RVS? Better put that in my notes TSK TSK!"

Garmr is probably town. If he was scum hr would probably be bussing his partners right now.

What?

Defensive is your reaction to multiple RVs votes on yourself

Btw how can you make me being defensive the justification for your vote if you vote for me before the post that is supposedly defensive?

I mean it could be his justification for KEEPING his vote on you, but at the same time this is an interesting point.

[Aeronaut]

Anna isn't easy to read because she is still a newb. She could be scum but not willing to just assume so and I see no reason to rush anything.

ummm have you PLAYED a newbie game?

[Aeronaut]

Where

[Aeronaut]

So bbt what is your grand argument for me being scum?

He's not really claiming to have an argument I don't think. Which is a bit bothersome, I'll admit.

Wow, much posting, many votes. Not joining the Ds wagon yet, although thier overreaction to an rvs wagon is strange.

Currently more worried about Rc and her lack of sharing Info.

Why not vote for him then?

(Also, RC is a he not a she)

If dragon spawn flips scum this game it wouldn't surprise me if boon flips scum

Why are you already drawing associatives?

A pre-flip associative read:

If dragon spawn flips scum this game it wouldn't surprise me if boon flips scum

Can you explain this please.

Boonskies seems to be fighting against A ds lynch/wagon even through wagons this early and early wagons tend to drop really fast. Boons post have been attacking the wagon.

NOOOOO.

DRAGONSPAWN IS MY BESTY.

VOTE: The Cow

For voting my other main man.

But...but...but...Dragon. How about I make an actual vote?

VOTE: Garmr

He basically started this pile on wagon. Sword was just jokingly OMGUS'ing.

And after those votes attacking the wagon he posts this.

Eh, I won't fight the lynch, but I'm not going to join it unless he's L-1.

This feels like boonskies backing off from dragonspawn and I don't feel boon is competent enough as scum to not make mistakes like these.

Tbh I feel boon and dragon spawn seem connected and if they were connected in a townie way boon skies wouldn't of posted the post above and If boon skies was just town reading dragon then he wouldn't be posted this post. Post 65 Is a scummy post tbh I am happy with getting rid of boon and dragon Already easy game is easy.

Yea, but it's unlikely that scum defends their buddy this early in the game, really. Neither of them are new.

Comments made about the wagon

....
Really. You all going to pile on an RVS!

What makes you think it's a bad idea?

I'm ignoring it. It's bad and you should feel bad for instigating.

Although BBT's reason for joining is iffy.

Eh, I won't fight the lynch, but

I'm not going to join it unless he's L-1

.

I mean,

why are you pushing the wagon

? I'm curious, because I don't quite understand that.

Wow, much posting, many votes. Not joining the Ds wagon yet, although thier overreaction to an rvs wagon is strange

.

FINGER OF SUSPICION

Which person is that FOS on?

I thought about it and I shall make that wagon on that good old dragonspawn a little bigger (Too much rhymes FTW)

VOTE: dragonspawn

So, you were happy with your RVS like two posts before this. What makes you change your mind?

Rhymes

Fair.

I like everything BBT has done so far to be honest, but I am not very interested in the dragonspawn train at the moment.

Um, what do you like that BBT has done this game? From what I've seen almost every post is just pushing people to vote Dragon BUT refusing to say there's any reasoning behind it. I also haven't seen him comment on much else in-game. Why townread someone like that?

Also, this brings up a good point. BBT, do you have reads on any other people right now besides Dragon?

[Aeronaut]

How many tries will it take Dragon to use the right vote tags?

Spoiler:

[Aeronaut]

Hey there, so in watching the dragon wagon show, I have a couple of thoughts. I like keysers and aeronauts analysis and questioning.

My opinion of dragons response is that it is not an OVER reaction, it is a dragon reaction. I have played with him before and it seems like a typical dragon response. I don't see it being alignment indicative. I think serious votes on the wagon are bad.

This whole post contradicts itself... you say you like the questioning from Key and I, but then below you say that any serious votes on that wagon are bad? Me and Key are serious votes on that wagon.

Gonna give this a thorough read through soon.

If I didn't know you better I would think this comment is pretty scummy. Pushing a wagon without reading through.

Why say it then?

[Aeronaut]

Not very pleased by how easy duppin got off. Aero is looking townier now. Must be his pretty eyes.

Ohhh Myk buy me dinner first!

This ^ is what bothers me. A few votes into an RVS wagon and he's already guarded in this post.

So it's a serious vote for me. And it should be for you too.

What is scummy about being defensive?

Fine whatever.

VOTE: dragon

This still doesn't look any better on a reread.

Hmm, looks like pushy BBT. I've seen this personality both as scum and town. I like the questions, so makes me lean town a little.

Interesting. If you have seen me do it as both town and scum, why would you give me a lean town read?

Garmr is probably town. If he was scum hr would probably be bussing his partners right now.

I'm sorry, what?

Nope.

Cool.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

This whole post in the context of the last five pages confuses me. Why did you suddenly decide to leave the wagon you've been pushing aimlessly for the whole game?

[Aeronaut]

But like... You suspect PB for making a 180 on dragon, but you also just made a similar 180. So how is that any different?

[Aeronaut]

lol

[Aeronaut]

Nothing on Aero's question?

[Aeronaut]

But like... You suspect PB for making a 180 on dragon, but you also just made a similar 180. So how is that any different?

[Aeronaut]

Also, when asked if you had any reads, you shrugged it off with a joke which, admittedly did make make me laugh, but also implies that you don't actually have other reads.

[Aeronaut]

Shots fired

[Aeronaut]

It just seems like you made the same reversal that you're suspecting PB for to me.

I don't like that.


P-edit: I laughed tbh

[Aeronaut]

Um I might possible be a tad drunk so I may totally claim my double bulletproof cop-mason role in this post

You don't think I have provided reasons for my reversal of read on Dragon?

Also, a read and a vote onto a wagon are two different things. PB went against the wagon, stating he was ignoring it and I should feel bad for pushing it. Then he joins the wagon I'm pushing and doesn't explain the reversal in his read.

I explained the reversal. PB did not explain his reversal. There is a huge difference in both of our actions.

Can you vote PB now?

I don't really know why I should vote PB besides that thing he did which you also did.

Spreading awareness of a tell decreases it's value.

I'd rather keep this one for myself.

You would rather weasel out of explaining anything at all.

That is, inherrently, anti town at best.

VOTE: RC

Share what you have or don't bother posting it.

What the fuck did you just say to me you little shit?

I'll have you know I'm the top scumhunter in the entire MafiaScum and have over 300 confirmed scum lynches.

I'm extensively trained in VCA and have conducted numerous secret raids on the Werewolves.

You are nothing to me but another

hated townie

.

I did something like this to crumb a hated role once are you crumbing one?

Oh jeeze don't be asking for people's roles

@kitty - like what? 'Coz that wasn't it. Who is your no1 lynch rn?

@Gamr, can you explain about your comment on associative before a flip?

Already answered that in my post right after maybe read my iso

Also if you say things like this when people ask you for clarifications then I'm going to policy lynch you.

Do you still stand by your first reason for voting dragonspawn? Or has his defensive-reactions added to your scum-read of him?

Both.

This kind of defensiveness is hard to read because it's at the very least anti-town.

Why is defensiveness anti-town?

This question is such a blatant misrep that I almost want to vote you. You chopped off the context, and even in that one sentence you quoted, there is the phrase "this kind" that you just threw out the window with your question. If you are asking why a kind of paranoid defensiveness that causes a player to misread posts and think they're more against him than they really are is anti-town...I think it's pretty obvious. It hurts the town when someone misinterprets what everyone else is saying and gets super defensive about it because it is a) deceptive b) illogical and c) often seen as scummy. In this case, I do see it as scummy, which means it's at least anti-town if he's actually town.

In what way is it a misrep? Sorry, just not getting that.

This question is such a blatant misrep that I almost want to vote you. You chopped off the context, and even in that one sentence you quoted, there is the phrase "this kind" that you just threw out the window with your question. If you are asking why a kind of paranoid defensiveness that causes a player to misread posts and think they're more against him than they really are is anti-town...I think it's pretty obvious. It hurts the town when someone misinterprets what everyone else is saying and gets super defensive about it because it is a) deceptive b) illogical and c) often seen as scummy. In this case, I do see it as scummy, which means it's at least anti-town if he's actually town.

Wanna fight?

Being defensive is not scummy, nor is it anti-town. For you to suggest such things is absurd. People interpret posts differently...that's kind of the point of online Mafia. If everyone interpreted posts in the same away there would be no discussion. So no, 'misinterpreting' as you put it is not deceptive and it's not illogical and as stated earlier being defensive is not scummy.

Eh, depends on really the situation. Like some kind of defensiveness is natural and makes sense in the context of the ISO of whoever is posting, but other times it seems "off" or unwarrented. People who go around yelling "THAT GUY IS DEFENSIVE HE'S A SCUMBLE" at every person who picks apart their own wagon are silly. However, that's a lot different than noticing someone being overly defensive for not quite a lot of threat, eg what happened earlygame with dragon.

I don't remember dragon spawn being this oblivious in my mason game with him he demonstrated the ability to think I even understood his thought process in my mafia game against him he was logical this feels like a act to play off as dumb

This is the other reason I'm choosing to keep my vote where it is... I feel like Dragon is smart usually and he's just being either naive or obtuse in this game and I can't figure out which. I feel like it's obtuse.

Don't really agree is putting it mildly.

If I post my tell here everyone will start being conscious of it, and will make it useless.

Yea, the observer effect.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain
Giving in to pressure seems rather scummy.

Where did he give into any pressure? I may be just tired but I guess I missed that happening

Kling are you town or scum

Solid questioning

Yeah, I was making a joke based off of what someone in my neighbour hood said.

Don't worry about it.

Lol I've decided I love playing with you


Sorry for any mispellings / nonsensicle sentences in there. I think I'm sobered up but who the heck knows at this point

Dragon what are your reads right now? You seem to be like voting a hundred times and It's confusing as hell

[Aeronaut]

As long as Garmr isn't a god dam hider again

screw that role

[Aeronaut]

It just makes everyone angry

[Aeronaut]

Read Zor's Holiday Bash for more context on that lovely role

[Aeronaut]

@Dragon

Ill give you some reads I'm still formulating.

Town reads

Boon - cause he is still awesome. And it just feels like a town boon game so far.

This isn't very convincing to me.

Garmr - cause he has been pressuring me. I'd fully expect him to be bussing scum buddies if he was scum.

How would you know if he were bussing his buddies at this point in the game?

Klingon - mostly because I'd be expecting her to be more involved if she was scum. That can change though.

That's a slippery slope.

Bella - for reasons previously articulated.

Can you tell me these reasons again? All I saw in your ISO is Bella hedging in a post.

Prolapsed - he has been posting but not exactly providing with much substance. And his reasoning for getting on my wagon was poor.

Well, he didn't have a reason. Neither did BBT. But you're townreading him.

Anna - slight scum read because she hasn't really done much other than vote for me because Dragon rhymes with wagon. I'd be expecting a bit more by now.

Yea, kind of agree with this actually.

---

@Garmr

@aero hated town should always be claimed so me asking the role isn't a bad thing but only a competent player would know that.

Also that game when I was hider I started off bad but then I got two town confirmed and lynched two scum which included you so don't be bitter you made shit choices and got screwed over because you under estimated also you were kinda obvious scum

I didn't say anything about your play that game, I just said I think the role is dumb.

---

@Boon

RC's obviously in a neighborhood with Garmr if what he said was true. I still like my garmr vote. I'm not supporting the Dspawn wagon. This happens every game he's semi active in Day 1; last time I had to out our best friendship Day 1. Which we lived until end game for a town victory, whattup, even doing the honors of catching a couple scum!

Why is garmr scum? I currently have null read on him. All you've said is that he "started the pile on" the wagon. Do you have anything stronger than that?

[Aeronaut]

Ill give you some reads I'm still formulating.

Town reads

Boon - cause he is still awesome. And it just feels like a town boon game so far.

This isn't very convincing to me.

Klingon - mostly because I'd be expecting her to be more involved if she was scum. That can change though.

Anna - slight scum read because she hasn't really done much other than vote for me because Dragon rhymes with wagon. I'd be expecting a bit more by now.

Hmm . . So Klingon lack of involvement makes her town read while mine makes me slight scum read?

Uh... this is like the same exact thing I posted right above that.

I'm not on any wagon. Why are you not paying attention?

Ok, do you have any sorts of reads or analysis or anything at all?

PB's iso is not giving me any positive feelings, though. He's not sharing information, and with 12 posts I feel I should know -something- about his read on the game, and I don't.

VOTE: PB

My problem is, I feel as if this could be said about a lot of people right now. Klingoncelt, duppin, Kitty Galore, SilverWrath, Kop, Sword Master, all people who I personally have no idea about because they've barely posted. The only reason something is compiling on PB is because it's a wagon, and someone like Kop isn't.

Prolapsed needs to post more. Do any players here have experience with them? They would be better of reading them.
In any case, kind of leaning scum at this point, just based on tone and content alone.

I've only played with PB one time, but he was exactly like this when I played. It was also explained to me by RC in that game that this is just his playstyle. So, right now it's null to me.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Shazam

Going to try something new for a bit.

I'm not done with Dragon.

[Aeronaut]

@myko, who is the one townie?

@Shazam, why are you attacking what is basically a play-style thing? It doesn't look like you've bothered to work out if it's anything to do with alignment, and it's no different to a bunch of people's reads. Why chose to take apart that post, in 14 pages?

If you're referring to my other post on this page, I'm trying to help someone be more constructive in their reads so that I can better determine if they or the people they are reading are mafia. So my question to you is: why are you pretending that that is the only post I've chosen to take apart in 14 pages? It's clearly not. I will only respond to those things which interest me.

Shazam, which are you, noob or alt?

What kind of question even is that

[Aeronaut]

I like

what FA is doing.

@BBT, I can kinda see what Gamr is saying about dragon -

I feel like

he's not looking any deeper at the game and it's

frustrating to me

.

In terms of Soze, his Iso

confuses

me. Some of it

seems

really genuine and town-minded, some of it is just...noisy and the discussion with myk

doesn't fill me with town-vibes

It might be a style thing.

PB's iso is not giving me any

positive feelings

, though. He's not sharing information, and with 12 posts

I feel

I should know -something- about his read on the game, and I don't.

VOTE: PB

This is poor. If you expect anyone to agree with you about who to vote, talk about more than your feelings. If you don't expect anyone to agree with you, why are you doing it?

I mean, it's honestly better to hear a person's feelings of someone rather than lifeless calculations and statistics. Some people do VCA and that drives me absolutely insane. If you're trying to call out someone because they're telling us their personal feelings on the game, you're reaching.

Having said that though, the thing I did notice about the post you quoted is that while it doesn't seem manufactured/fabricated, it does feel very... fence-sitting. Will probably come back to this.

BBT looks Town for now.

Can you explain this? Hoping for something substantial from your slot soon...

Earlier on, when the Dragon flashwagon was rocketing ahead, I was certain that you were Scum. Now I see how you were using it for information. So now you look Townish.

This is something I agree with, but don't think I've mentioned. BBT was giving me some scum vibes near the beginning of the game because of him just pushing the wagon without any real reasoning or analysis. Looking at his later posts, though, there's been a good amount of analysis of the wagon(s), him using it, etc. So I feel better about BBT for now.

this game has too many dragon votes and too few on soze/duppin

Why should any of us be voting Duppin? I read your thing about Soze. Don't agree.

Do you have some sort of sick and twisted post restrictions rc

Spoiler:

Pariah's Mafia is about challenging site Meta and discouraging setup spec, yo.

@myko, who is the one townie?

@Shazam, why are you attacking what is basically a play-style thing? It doesn't look like you've bothered to work out if it's anything to do with alignment, and it's no different to a bunch of people's reads. Why chose to take apart that post, in 14 pages?

This is selective questioning at best.

Shazam, which are you, noob or alt?

What kind of question even is that

I've come across some very cocky noobs of late. They don't help move the game along at all. They hinder it.

Now if he's an old player using an alt, that makes a difference.

Ok, that's fair. Honestly any cocky player is usually pretty bad for the town, IMO. People do things such as fakeclaim three different PRs as town, etc. You remember that wonderful game don't you?

Kling, can you state your reads please?

Right now paranoia's taken over. I'm not liking much:
Aeronaut
Annadog40
Bellaphant
Boonskiies
dragonspawn
Keyser Söze
Kitty Galore
Kop
mykonian
Prolapsed Brain
SilverWrath
Sword Master


Yeah, more than half the players.

I actually kind of like this post a lot.

Not the part where you suspect me.

But I like it anyway.

I feel quite comfortable now just sitting here thinking and taking note of reads to myself. large games are like that through I can always sit back and analysis things at my own pace.

Why did you feel the need to tell us this?

My comments in

red

.

You had trouble to get going this game.

(That is your opinion, I have been enjoying this game from the very beginning [not aligment-indicative])

. You didn't want to miss the boat and get called out as a lurker so early on you wanted good looking posts out to get off to a good start

(I have never been called a lurker, and I don't think I ever will be called a lurker. I would rather replace out then lurk [not aligment-indicative])

. There are two keys to this, first "good looking" and the second that it was forced by your gameplan, not naturally by other people's posting. So what we end up with are very early posts with lots of quotes and a stiff structure. So by page 5 we see a PBPA

(Do you think only a scum-aligned player is more likely to post in my style? [not aligment-indicative])

. That's straight up silly should you have been town. As scum however, it makes a lot of sense. The PBPA structure makes that getting a post out with seeming analysis is doable, it helps you post. And really, you'll always find something if you want to in those. PBPA's are fine. But not on page 5. On the same page we find a logical setup about a quote where the premise is very neatly detailed etc. The argumentation is similar. Sure you could do that as town, but more usually a town sees a post, quotes it, and points out what he's seeing. He doesn't need a setup at the time of what is the exit of the RVS

(Again you are saying my playstyle is less likely to be written by a town-aligned player [not aligment-indicative])

.

Later on you get into your groove more, as expected. The start of the game is awkward for scum, you don't know where everybody stands and first impressions do count. But once that's past, you know what people want and who they suspect, responding to them and asking questions about it gets much easier, and as such scum posting would be expected to feel more natural. It's easy to blend in when people already have an expectancy from you

(I was not trying to blend in, I am developing and challenging my reads continually [not aligment-indicative]).

Shame your early game gives you away

Suggestion: Re-read my posts.
Think: 'Is it possible for them to be posted from a town-aligned player?'

Conclusion: All your reasons I cannot challenge with logic, as it is the same reply for all of them: 'Why can't a town-aligned player have posted this?' There are no allegations to respond to, no miss-reads/miss-reps to support, no contradictions to address: only comments regarding my playstyle.

"Shame your early game gives you away"

- I will frame this Shame your myopic game let's your scum-hunting ability down.

See, I feel like Keyser here and in his other posts like this is doing the

opposite

of what Mhyko's saying. He's not trying to blend in, if anything he doesn't care about his image because his posting style is so radically different than most people. I don't know whether I should be townreading that, but I am.

[Aeronaut]

May I ask why?

I don't see why their not explaining their voting reasons is scummier then all the other players who do the exact same thing

This is a great fucking point.

It's not just the not explaining his vote.

He went against the Dragon wagon and then joined the wagon. He never explained his reasoning for joining the wagon; when questioning about joining the wagon he unvotes.

Other than this, he has done nothing noteworthy in the game.

That is more than enough reason to vote someone.

Ok, well I recently voted for Shazam without any explanation after pushing Dragon for the majority of the game for *actual* reasons but neither you nor anyone felt the need to come after me or my logic for it. In my mind, that's basically the same thing, if not moreso.
So....

He is clearly paying attention to the thread.

Don't let his lack of posting fool you.

Again, that's a good reason but Garmr literally posted that he was doing

just that

, (e.g. paying attention to the game but not posting ON PURPOSE) and you passed that up for the lurkerwagon. why.

I am not big on PB, and mykonian.

Not big on the wagon or not big on their play?

Busy with RL at the moment. I'll do an reread the thread and do an analysis on something I find interesting when I get the chance. For now, I'd be open to people asking me questions on specific matters which do not involve rereading the entire thread: I should have time enough for at least that.

How do you feel currently about Garmr, Anna, or Duppin?

VOTE: keyserI am here.
Btw this is serious. Something seems off.

Ok, I'd like to know what's serious enough that you needed to say "it's serious" all dramatic like, but not serious enough that you were fine with just jumping on the PB wagon.

[Aeronaut]

Here's the thing about the PB wagon.

We're getting really nothing from it. PB is posting next to nothing, people on the wagon are just relaying the same reasoning about him being a lurker etc etc. I don't particularly think he's town, but I also don't particularly think he's scum either. I have no real clue because he's not posting a lot, but

that can be said about a lot of players right now.

BBT's reasoning on paper is fine, but the problem with it is that it can be applied to a lot of people, but isn't right now.

I'm not compelled by the wagon and you shouldn't be either.

[Aeronaut]

But hey, here's a compelling wagon.

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Aeronaut]

Hopefully we can get an intent to hammer stated in the next page or so.

:/ I really feel like you're rushing to end the day.

This is a lurker wagon.

Okay, here's the lame expansion of my paranoia list:


Aeronaut - He's starting to look less scummy now. But he fooled me before. It's that cute little avatar and his super nice approach... Can't trust this guy

Annadog40 - On the plus side, knows who the Beatles were. Voted Dragon because rhymes? Hmm. This early in the game I don't expect tons of content from anyone, but Anna's posts are pretty vacant. Will be watching her.

Bellaphant - Can't get a grip on her.

Boonskiies - Unusually quiet. Not alignment indicative, but bothersome.

Dragonspawn - I usually see him as Scum on D1. I'm usually wrong.

Keyser Söze - He's either a very good player, or he's very good because he's Scum. Focuses a lot on Mykonian

Kitty Galore - Not a lot of posts, blames R/L. Okay, could be, but Scum often use that as a cover.

Kop - V/LA. We'll see...

Mykonian - Definitely a veteran player, which means as Scum he should be pretty good at convincing us that he's Town.

Prolapsed Brain - An older player that reads like a noob. I dunno what to think of him.

Bulbazoor/(SilverWrath) - Silver flaked. Not necessarily a Scumtell, but the slot now bears watching.

Sword Master - V/LA. I'll be watching him when he gets back.

Add in Garmr because in post 269 Aero points out some things that aren't ultra Townie.


Pretty weak reasoning, I know, but it's early in the first Day, what do you expect? I want to keep an eye on this group of players, hopefully I can move some into the Town column by the end of Day 2.

This was honestly still better than that thing dragon posted a few pages ago, though.

What do you think of the few posts Bulba has made, by the way? I feel like it's weird that you focused on the person who siteflaked rather than the person who's posted.

@myko, who is the one townie?

Thecow's page 13 is very townie. Not the individual posts, but the series.

Klingoncelts list is indeed not very productive, which he knows. The issue is that he starts from a gut read and tries to condense that. Or in his words, he's mostly paranoid. He finds the easy things to dislike, the people who lurk, the people who post awkwardly, the people who got fingers pointed their way. Which is exactly the thing an average scum would try to avoid. That list includes the bad scum, so you are probably going to find a couple there, depending on what the mod randomly sent out. I'd be a bit sad though if klingon actually used that as his starting point, he's discarding the average scum to muck around in a hard to read pool of players. It's something to keep in mind, not a reads list.

SHE isn't as noob as you think, dear.

I know some of the players and how they think.

Interestingly, who are the 'hard scum', 'soft scum' and the 'average scum' mykonian is alluding to?

What?

I understand why this wagon has formed, but I don't want a player joining the wagon without posting their reads/reasons (which we have already seen, as they would be guilty of the very thing we are suspicious of about Prolapsed Brain.)

That's like 75% of the votes on the wagon

People do not 'escape my wrath' when they derp hammer. I can assure you of that.

Now, can we get this PB wagon back together please?

Were you under the impression that it had fallen apart?

P-edit: LOL

[Aeronaut]

no i don't want to be in your cult bbt

as fun as it sounds

[Aeronaut]

Boon WILL come in and hammer though if nobody unvotes sooooo....

[Aeronaut]

Yea but why does that matter?

Like I don't get how it's relevant what kind of scum he's talking about?

P-edit: @Key

[Aeronaut]

Gonna be V/LA until at least Friday. Might be able to post properly tomorrow

[Aeronaut]

Reading up now bitches

[Aeronaut]

Alright, going to do this a few pages at a time. I should be able to finish tonight.

p19, p20

I told you we needed to wait for Prolapsed Brain's response.

We didn't even get a role-claim

For the record, this post makes me pretty unconfortable. It sounds very "Look how pro-town I'm being!". AKA it looks like Key here is trying to pin the lynch on anyone but himself. And it seems almost rehearsed/fabricated.

Annadog40,

[Town] Gunsmith

, has died Night 1.
Mykonian,

[Town] Citizen

, has died Night 1.
Klingoncelt,

[Town] Citizen

, has died Night 1.

One of these kills makes Garmr town.

Wow.

Is that common for a large to have 3 NKs?

VOTE: duppin

Sheeping Mykonian.

Yea, I've seen it a few times before. Usually that many kills means we also have some pretty strong protective power to balance it out, though.

I'm really puzzled as to why you're so easily sheeping Mhykonian's scumreads for no other reason other than that he was town, and he died. Why not Anna? Why not Kling? There's zero chance you're so lost on reads at this point in the game that you have to resort to basing your vote off of the D1 reads of a dead VT.

Yeah, I'm sure everyone forgot I was pushing that wagon Keyser; thanks for bringing that up. Very pro-town of you.

VOTE: Bulba

You're calling Keyser Anti-town, but then voting Bulba. Just thought you ought to know.

I typically don't like going for lurkers, but Kitty Galore

sticks out as having posted just often enough to slide by without saying anything useful

or even voting.

VOTE: Kitty Galore

Pedit: Bulba stuck out too, but I thought Kitty's no-vote to be interesting, especially if it's a silent vote mechanism.

This is gross.

With all that's gone on do you really have no better direction than to vote someone for lurking? I mean, like, aren't there other lurkers, and why aren't you trying to push them? Tbh, the bolded just describes yourself. This was a safe-ass post and you know it.

VOTE: Keyser

Sheeping Mykonian.

Again with the sheeping Mhykonian. Has the bulba lead gone cold?

It was half-joke (after voting dupping) and half serious (I think Mykonian makes the most sense as a kill coming from scum) and I like to keep things simple and assume that people are killed because they have good reads. The Anna and Kling kills completely baffle me though.

Keyser's recent posting was pretty terrible and I'm not feeling the conviction in his posts.

PEdit - The vote came before FA, Bulba and Kling. We couldn't see it though, it wasn't included in the VC until a lynch was achieved (which was bullshit)

This post is really why I have a problem with the above posts. It would be easy enough for you to kill Mhykonian just so you could blindly and safely sheep his reads the next day. I feel like you're better than this.

Then if we are going to presume this is a scum pr then bulb is the best candidate because he voted with the intent to push him to L1

This is true. But I also don't feel like Bulba was in the game long enough to have made that vote, right?

Anna night kill doesn't make sense from a scum point of view. More than likely a vig if anything. She didn't add much to the game. I could easily see a vigilante thinking she was scummy.

Anna looked pretty town tbh.

BBT looks pretty bad in my opinion. Dave looks pretty bad in my opinion. Not sure about key yet. These reads may change as I go, but honestly BBT is probably where I'm voting today.

[Aeronaut]

I feel quite comfortable now just sitting here thinking and taking note of reads to myself. large games are like that through I can always sit back and analysis things at my own pace.

My turn to ask... my earlier impression of your play was to pick something and tunnel it. Did I misremember or something?

@Garmr, don't think I got an answer on this.

Anyone know Garmr well enough to comment on meta?

This soft meta push is silly.

Here are the votes on Prolapsed Brain's wagon:

Nope.

Cool.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

I noticed PB did post after he got called out, but didn't respond to it.
VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

VOTE: Prolapsed BrainGiving in to pressure seems rather scummy.

PB's iso is not giving me any positive feelings, though. He's not sharing information, and with 12 posts I feel I should know -something- about his read on the game, and I don't.

VOTE: PB

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain
Sure, I could get behind this.

That question makes me re-think my stance:

Pressure would

force

him to play to his win-con* and try to survive.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

I'm thinking pb needs some more pressure.

VOTE: pb

We need to get him talking and interacting.

<DOUBLE VOTE POSTED HERE>

Keyser, do you think it would look scummy for PB to suddenly start doing ~things~ once people started to vote him?

That question makes me re-think my stance:

Pressure would

force

him to play to his win-con* and try to survive.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

*as both town or scum.

This is true.

Lets see where this goes: VOTE: PB

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

That is more than 'pretty weak reasoning'.

Having said that; maybe if you join the PB wagon and we push him you will be able to develop a read?

Perhaps...

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

I believe this puts him at L-2.

No, wait, I can go for Mykonin later.

Back to

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain.

Yea, so Bulba joined us after the vote was given. He replaced Silverwrath who I'm pretty sure siteflaked, so I don't really see him having put the vote there in that place either.

Because on the surface it looks pro-town (he has a lot of posts like this) but in reality it does nothing as anyone with a pair of eyes can go and look at the votes on the PB wagon and how they got there.

Keyser is trying hard to play the role of 'Helpful Townie' and I'm not buying it.

This is one of the few things I kind of agree with you on. However, your reasons for voting Key have changed. First you're just sheeping mhykonian, and then when you're called out on it it's because he looks fabricated. That looks cheap to me.

Guys, if you think this extra vote is a scum PR, then surely you think it's too powerful to be unlimited uses. And if it has limited uses, why would they use it D1? The only good answer I can think of is that they wanted to make sure that one of their own did not get lynched.
VOTE: dragonspawn
This makes sense anyway. Given the pushing of the counterwagon to dragon's by so many people, it's likely scum joined in on that. BBT would be a strong possibility for a dragon partner, but I'm more confident in dragon being scum.

I believe that Dragon is town because of this post You should too.

VOTE: Dragonspawn

I like this.

Nope.


Hey, here's a question: What if the person who double voted was

OFF

the wagon?

[Aeronaut]

Will do the rest tomorrow morning I think, I'm falling asleep on this keyboard

[Aeronaut]

Annadog40,

[Town] Gunsmith

, has died Night 1.
Mykonian,

[Town] Citizen

, has died Night 1.
Klingoncelt,

[Town] Citizen

, has died Night 1.

One of these kills makes Garmr town.

Why?

That only makes sense to me IF you know the source of those kills - information that we are lacking AFAIK...

I won't be answering this at any point today.

Another important comment for you to add;

BBT gives 0 fucks about this game.

Discuss.

UNVOTE:

Why? Because I'm pushing you?

I appreciate it but unfortunately I won't be lynched Today.

ehhhhhh

Should I claim now?

Only at L-1.

Why don't you scum-hunt? Analyse your wagon at least. Never seen you this defeatist. If you are town, you are making yourself an easy lynch option for both town and scum. Tell us your reads and why you have unvoted.

We're not putting anyone at L-1 for the rest of this game unless we're completely ready to lynch them.


Will be doing some more catchup today, but I'm also doing a lot of driving so it may not be until late tonight.

[Aeronaut]

I wasn't to begin with.

[Aeronaut]

I've been dealing with some family stuff, but it's mostly resolved. I'll be here today

[Aeronaut]

Oh, wait BBT is the Vig?

So that means garmr could be scum. He was town in my mind because he was the one who was talking about kling being scum, and I thought he had taken the kill.

But yea if BBT did it then that changes things

I haven't read what happened before this page yet but that needed to be said I think

[Aeronaut]

I also don't like aeronauts react to BBT claim he is way to accepting.

Well nobody else is coming out and saying "um I killed KLing, BBT is a lying asshole"

Although yea it's possible he's just scum claiming that. So. Eh.

Idk I'll decide who I believe when I'm on a computer

[Aeronaut]

Bbt are you x-shot?

Please do not answer this

[Aeronaut]

This is up to 28.

Therefore we can categorically say,

Bulbazoor did not personally make the double vote

. However, whether he knew about the double voter scum PR role is another question.

Oh yea actually, I guess this is true. Scum having daytalk makes this especially true.

ok im here and replacing bellaphant
VOTE: bbt every game I will RVS you

Posting an RVS post on Day 2 is like trying to insert a floppy disk into your apple watch.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

From what I have seen, don't like his posts.

Need a full catch up, but he is what caught my eye reading through.

Ehhh this entrance

VOTE: Aeronaut
I will explainn this in a second.

Oh cool.

Spoiler: why is bbt scum? Let's look!

Boon, stop.

Dragon looks like a really good wagon. RVS wagons are good, stop slowing it down.

VOTE: BBT because why not.

Because we have a wagon?

Couple more votes on Dragon wagon are needed.

Oh, and Anna is town.

You don't think I have provided reasons for my reversal of read on Dragon?

Also, a read and a vote onto a wagon are two different things. PB went against the wagon, stating he was ignoring it and I should feel bad for pushing it. Then he joins the wagon I'm pushing and doesn't explain the reversal in his read.

I explained the reversal. PB did not explain his reversal. There is a huge difference in both of our actions.

Can you vote PB now?

Anyone who isn't voting by page 17 - you should feel bad about yourself.

Make use of your vote.

RC could be scum as well.

Ok so after these quotes there is no way you could possibly think that bbt has town intentions. He is insulting people off of not voting on the wagon he supports the most at the moment. He has shown no signs of scum hinting at all just randomly pointing his finger and insulting people not voting for him. Here he says he makes reads and them follows up with absolutely nothing. No explainations absolutely nothing. Remember the giant push on the RVS wagon on dragon? He says that wagons like that are good for scum reading but he hasn't posted any results from this as well as explaining his 180 turn on his read on dragon. All of this combined gives me absolutely no reasons to let him live today. And even if you don't think he is scum he should be a candidate for A policy lynch.

So I was under the assumption that the thing BBT got out of the Dragonwagon was PB's crappy vote/reactions and then pushed him. AKA, the tactic was to push a rando wagon and get some reactions/votes, and then analyze THAT wagon for votes and reactions. Him switching to PB

is

a result of his original push on dragon, so you can't really say that he didn't get anything out of it.

I actually was thinking along these same lines, but looking back now, I feel like it's more towny that he openly admitted to not having a real reason to scumread dragon, and I think he even said it was just for reactions. I feel like it'd be almost scummier had he made up some really bullshit reason.

At the same time though, I guess his push on PB was also really bullshit.

So.. hmm..

[Aeronaut]

Ok I feel like me catching up on stuff is becoming less and less relevant because of what's currently happening in thread, but I really feel the need to comment on this because it's really silly.

*Spoilered*

Clearly scum.

yea.

VOTE: Dragon

Just as long as you look busy

Although BBT's reason for joining is iffy.

Wagons are good for information and it's a great way to start any game.

Thanks mr. IC!

Anna isn't easy to read because she is still a newb. She could be scum but not willing to just assume so and I see no reason to rush anything.

ummm have you PLAYED a newbie game?

How many tries will it take Dragon to use the right vote tags?

Spoiler:

Through the first half of the day aero did absolutely nothing at all. All he did was these jokey fluff posts.

I'm not sure what motivation that would be but I'm leaning towards scum due to the fact that he joined the dragon RVS wagon and then refused to give any reasons what so ever and then switched over to PB once bbt told him to. My read on aeronaut is scum lean. If anyone can give some sort of meta that could help.

So in this post, you specifically took a few select joke posts I made, and skipped any sort of real game-related content or analysis I've provided. That really makes me mad because I absolutely hate it when people just come into games to troll. If you're not going to take a game seriously then don't be a part of the game. (I understand I personally have a problem with being inactive in games, but that's not exactly the same)

The point though, is that you pulled 8 random posts from my ISO, and then presented as "This is everything Aero has done today". Which is an absolute fallacy.

Which means that you're purposely trying to make a case

just to make a case

, not because you're going to actually push someone.

[Aeronaut]

Might actually try and read this today.

Haven't read the game properly since page 13 or something like that.

Soooo.. Let's just lynch random people for reasons never to be told

This is pretty true though. I can't really take BBT seriously if he's only read half the thread.

Apologies Aero, I assumed you were voting me given you're pushing me. Why had you not voted for me?

Because I hadn't finished catching up.

I appreciate it but unfortunately I won't be lynched Today.

Wat.

UNVOTE:

I've gone back and forth on this, but ultimately I think Aeronaut's right. dragonspawn's not the secret voter. That doesn't mean he's not scum, but we should probably be looking at lynching someone else today. I'll be rereading this game at some point soon.

I'm really starting to wonder why I ever thought shazam was scum, tbh.

That doesn't answer for the contradiction whatsoever.

VOTE: Keyser

My vote won't be moving.

The extra kill only intensifies this.

Almost forgot this. Only one extra kill huh, FA?

We're in multi-ball ladies and gentleman. FA was clearly expecting two kills; not three.

VOTE: FA

... your vote moved

I'm not really sure that's a slip, honestly. Am looking to FA's reply to that, though.

Just stop it bbt. You have been caught. This is checkmate. Tic-Tac-Toe. Fatality. Bingo. Uno. Straight Flush. Whatever game you play this is the end.

You kind of sound like a supervillian from an old comic book sometimes

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

From what I have seen, don't like his posts.

Need a full catch up, but he is what caught my eye reading through.

You're kidding. You have got to be kidding. Is this guy for real?

That's your only comment? After a whole DP, that's all you bring to the table? Wow.

Yea. That wasn't a great entrance.

[Aeronaut]

FoS Boonsikes

for lurking, lack of an explaination for his vote and he being inactive fits his scum meta

I'd be more inclined to scumread him if he WERE active.

[Aeronaut]

That's also another classic Dominator post that is really just to show everyone he's doing stuff too

[Aeronaut]

How can there be you have 8 scum reads then?

Well, some are probably independent of each other.

As per the game rules, All private chats have daychat

Theory: BlueBloodedToffee knew he was caught, so basically gave up - "BBT gives 0 fucks about this game." (damage limitation).

Then someone in his scum day-chat tells him not to give up - to go back and cause as much confusion as possible, scum-reading half the players left alive, creating WIFOM, sheeping dead townies and voting different people.

This theory seems a little bit tinfoil hat to me. I think it's likelier that Rory is the Master.

That's a solid point regarding FA_Q2.

Still think we should lynch DS, because DS gives more info on BBT than vice versa and all the people who I don't like alignment wise are on the BBT side of the spectrum.

What do you think of Garmr?

I have never played a large normal that was not a multi-ball game. I expect that it is multi-ball. Do you honestly expect something different?

Really???

@pisskop

. Do any scum faction(s) have day chat?

As per the game rules, All private chats have daychat

Hey hye.

If you want mmy reasons to acum read aero. It is because aero has been posting things like useless filler and whenever he posts something, it is basically commenting on already existing opinions instead of making his own reads and conclusions from the comtext of the thread. Even his rvs vote came off bad to me. And so did his entrance.

Can you point out my useless filler posting?

I believe that Dragon is town because of this post You should too.

Why?

That does not make dragon town in any shape or form. Given what we know, if the double vote is a scum PR then it is very likely that they knew that it was in play.

IOW, that really has little bearing on weather or not dragon was town. It is exactly the type of post that scum would have thrown in there to seem town. As far as I am concerned, it is a null. That post neither shows dragon as town or scum.

Yea, I understand that. That particular post seemed pretty genuine to me, so it made him seem town, if the double vote is indeed a scum role. Be clear though, I don't mean that

confirms

him town for me. I meant it makes him look town.

Also, since we're on the subject, does me thinking dragon is town make me one of his buddies?

K. I have read through his iso again and decided he can be a happy town for now. Thanks for quoting hat post. It helped me.

lol

Dom is a suspect though.

true

[Aeronaut]

Sighs I just figured something out which I wish I saw earlier and I don't know what to do with out outing his powerole. Dragonspawn is 100% confirmed scum. You can mislynch me I flip town but Dragonspawn has been copped.

Is this or is this not a guilty

[Aeronaut]

TOO MANY COOKS

[Aeronaut]

Aero is posting so much fluff that when I hold him I am like

Did you read my response at all are you going to pretend it didn't happen?

Because it did and you're going to have to answer to it.

[Aeronaut]

So... Is FA just straight up lying?

[Aeronaut]

oh shit

Ok everyone shut up

[Aeronaut]

Ok I feel like me catching up on stuff is becoming less and less relevant because of what's currently happening in thread, but I really feel the need to comment on this because it's really silly.

*Spoilered*

Clearly scum.

yea.

VOTE: Dragon

Just as long as you look busy

Although BBT's reason for joining is iffy.

Wagons are good for information and it's a great way to start any game.

Thanks mr. IC!

Anna isn't easy to read because she is still a newb. She could be scum but not willing to just assume so and I see no reason to rush anything.

ummm have you PLAYED a newbie game?

How many tries will it take Dragon to use the right vote tags?

Spoiler:

Through the first half of the day aero did absolutely nothing at all. All he did was these jokey fluff posts.

I'm not sure what motivation that would be but I'm leaning towards scum due to the fact that he joined the dragon RVS wagon and then refused to give any reasons what so ever and then switched over to PB once bbt told him to. My read on aeronaut is scum lean. If anyone can give some sort of meta that could help.

So in this post, you specifically took a few select joke posts I made, and skipped any sort of real game-related content or analysis I've provided. That really makes me mad because I absolutely hate it when people just come into games to troll. If you're not going to take a game seriously then don't be a part of the game. (I understand I personally have a problem with being inactive in games, but that's not exactly the same)

The point though, is that you pulled 8 random posts from my ISO, and then presented as "This is everything Aero has done today". Which is an absolute fallacy.

Which means that you're purposely trying to make a case

just to make a case

, not because you're going to actually push someone.

[Aeronaut]

Ok what's the VC?

[Aeronaut]

Ok.

VOTE: Dragon

[Aeronaut]

As long as more than one person sees it I'm cool with this

[Aeronaut]

Well Boon didn't read

[Aeronaut]

......

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

[Aeronaut]

There's no chance you're using POE in a game with 17 players in it

[Aeronaut]

I dunno if we should be limiting ourselves to just the PB wagon in that particular case

[Aeronaut]

Dragon, who do you think is scum on your wagon?

[Aeronaut]

Aero to answer. You provided minimal reads d1 and those reads were not backed up by anything. Everything else was fluff. Don't believe me? ISO yourself.

Nope. You took 8 posts from my ISO and tried to present it everything I had posted. Explain that.

Just going to make sure that it's fully understood, I am not claiming a guilty, and I am not a cop.

I'm just going off my reads.

I thought you were telling me to do the fake cop claim on D's because you had a guilty.

What!?!

You took something posted in this thread as a direct communication to you, telling you to do something

fake

?
I spent like half an hour looking for the "something you saw" while my family was waiting to start an on-demand movie!
I had seen it earlier and dismissed as RC using language poorly, but figured it must be real if other people read it that way too.
At best this was

really

anti-town. We can't be messing around with stuff like this when there is a double vote out there.

UNVOTE:

Pedit: After thinking about it a bit more... Your response to RC doesn't say

where

you thought you were being told to do the fake cop. My gut says you may have acted on an idea posted in scumchat and then your team got cold feet. Let's test that theory with some fire.

VOTE: Garmr

For some reason, this whole post reads as really forced for me.

[Aeronaut]

Even though I sort of agree with it

[Aeronaut]

Through the first half of the day aero did absolutely nothing at all. All he did was these jokey fluff posts.

I'm not sure what motivation that would be but I'm leaning towards scum due to the fact that he joined the dragon RVS wagon and then refused to give any reasons what so ever and then switched over to PB once bbt told him to. My read on aeronaut is scum lean. If anyone can give some sort of meta that could help.

[Aeronaut]

Oh, you also said I switched over the the PB wagon?

Also not something I did.

Are you looking at the right player?

[Aeronaut]

Well do you see a lot of people posting in depth analysis three pages in?

[Aeronaut]

Idk man it's been all day and still no VCA.

[Aeronaut]

You mind explaining that garmr?

Seconded.

3rd

[Aeronaut]

Have we resolved the fact that FAQR tried to tell us he'd never played in a non-multiball game even though that's just completely false

[Aeronaut]

Like I don't know how alignment indicative that is, but I feel like if he felt the need to make that up in order to explain the "extra kill" thing, there might be something more there

[Aeronaut]

Oh yea, if there was nothing to actually see then Dave was just straight up spewing bullshit

[Aeronaut]

Wow, busy weekend and the thread blew up while I wasn't looking.

Re 922 after a little looking I think I see it too. Obviously it would be hugely antitown to explain if it is indeed a guilty.
VOTE: Dragonspawn

Just going to make sure that it's fully understood, I am not claiming a guilty, and I am not a cop.

I'm just going off my reads.

I thought you were telling me to do the fake cop claim on D's because you had a guilty.

What!?!

You took something posted in this thread as a direct communication to you, telling you to do something

fake

?
I spent like half an hour looking for the "something you saw" while my family was waiting to start an on-demand movie!
I had seen it earlier and dismissed as RC using language poorly, but figured it must be real if other people read it that way too.
At best this was

really

anti-town. We can't be messing around with stuff like this when there is a double vote out there.

UNVOTE:

Pedit: After thinking about it a bit more... Your response to RC doesn't say

where

you thought you were being told to do the fake cop. My gut says you may have acted on an idea posted in scumchat and then your team got cold feet. Let's test that theory with some fire.

VOTE: Garmr

So in the top post you're saying you definitely found it. Then later you say that you had been looking for it but never found it.

[Aeronaut]

Is it anti-town to ask how many neighbourhoods we have, and how many are actually in them?

Yea.

Does being in a neighbourhood have any indication of alignment?

Nope. It's either completely random or placed by the mod. But it could be all town, some scum, etc

[Aeronaut]

Dragonspawn - (7) Radiant Cowbells, duppin, garmr,

BlueBloodedToffee

, davesaz, Bulbazoor, Aeronaut
Dragonspawn - (7)

Sword master,

Garmr,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Aeronaut,

Prolapsed Brain

, Annadog40, Shazam
Prolapsed Brain - (11)

BlueBloodedToffee,

duppin, davesaz, Dom, TheCow, Keyser Söze,

Dragonspawn

, <Vote>, FA_Q2, Bulbazoor, Klingoncelt

Going under the assumption that Dragonspawn is town for now, and BBT is a real vig..., I am seeing zero overlap on these wagons, which I find incredibly odd. That's where I was going to go vote...

"zero overlaps"? I beg to differ.

Let's add BlueBloodedToffee's wagon:

BlueBloodedToffee - (6)

FA_Q2

, Kop,

Keysor Söze

,

Shazam

, Kitty Galore, TheDominator37

Dragonspawn - (7) Radiant Cowbells, duppin, garmr,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

davesaz

, Bulbazoor, Aeronaut
Dragonspawn - (7)

Sword master,

Garmr,

BlueBloodedToffee

, Aeronaut,

Prolapsed Brain

, Annadog40,

Shazam

Prolapsed Brain - (11)

BlueBloodedToffee,

duppin,

davesaz

, Dom, TheCow,

Keyser Söze

,

Dragonspawn

, <Vote>,

FA_Q2

, Bulbazoor, Klingoncelt

What do the red names mean

[Aeronaut]

I think about shazam every second of every day

We're in love

[Aeronaut]

What do you mean explain it?

[Aeronaut]

Oh um btw that was not me claiming lovers, hat was a joke. Duppin accidentally asked Dragonspawn whether he ever thinks about Shazam, instead of WHAT he thinks about shazam, so I thought I was being funny

[Aeronaut]

Because he played in 180 which was not multiball

[Aeronaut]

BBT what about FAQR? If you think he scum slipped why are you all for Dave?

[Aeronaut]

Like you said this:

If I die, please hang FA tomorrow.

He scum slipped pretty hard.

And haven't said much about Dave soo

[Aeronaut]

I don't know what BBT is.

We aren't lynching him today regardless, though.

[Aeronaut]

You know what... VOTE: Aeronaut.
I've had enough of your buddying me and this ridiculous stuff with FA_Q2. I don't think you really believe he lied, and it's clear to me that he did not. Nowhere did he say that he had never played in a large normal with less than 2 kills.

What?

No that's not what I said. I didn't know if he was lying, and I never said we should lynch him over it. If anything you should be more suspicious at BBT for literally calling it a scum slip and trying to push it to a lynch.

Basically, I think it's a little sketchy but it's not enough to lynch a person over. I just wanted an answer on that, and look, we just got one

[Aeronaut]

Have we resolved the fact that FAQR tried to tell us he'd never played in a non-multiball game even though that's just completely false

No. Waiting for his response.

Was 180 the game where town self imploded with the false cop claim that worked directly against their win con?

If so - then I possibly did say something false. I have no idea what the setup in that game was - after I was eliminated early in a colossal town fuck up I stopped watching it. I would prefer that game never have happened at all.

If that is enough to lynch me then fuck it - it is painfully obvious that bbt is reaching with the asinine claim that was a scum when what I stated makes perfect sense. If that is what town uses as a case then we have a snowballs chance in hell of taking this game anyway.

Yea 180 was the game where ABR claimed three different roles as a VT

'Twas a fun one

[Aeronaut]

Honestly though I guess if Titus couldn't even remember co-modding that game I guess it's not too out of place for someone to not remember the setup.

I was also surprised that you'd only played multiball large normals, because I don't think I ever have

[Aeronaut]

Ok I have thought this through and i am willing to key bbt live for 1 more night. Ill explain tomorrow.
VOTE: garmr

Why Garmr?

[Aeronaut]

I'd lynch RC tbh

P-edit: Titus knows what's up

PP-edit: but you're voting fa

[Aeronaut]

He lied about the catchup post.

???

[Aeronaut]

Lurking is a temporary issue.

Being Dom is a permanent one.

BUT YOU'RE NOT VOTING DOM

[Aeronaut]

But I thought you didn't set him up for it?

[Aeronaut]

I didn't set him up for it, but by Daves logic I would be the scummier of the two of us.

Oh, well that makes sense I guess

[Aeronaut]

Quick scum reads
aero
bulba
Dave
Dragon

there's more on the null side but these 4 I would be happy to lynch.

Didn't you say you were about to vote me today except for something that happened last night with the night kills? What happened with that?

[Aeronaut]

[Aeronaut]

Yea.

VOTE: Dave

[Aeronaut]

Garmr is still really town in my opinion though. I think.

FA I don't know. RC I don't know. Dave seems like scum to me so thats probably where my vote's staying today

[Aeronaut]

Titus, Boon, Garmr all seem town.

Was thinking key was pretty town but some of what BBT said there was kind of true

[Aeronaut]

The reason Garmr seems town to me is that the whole "RC was telling me to fake cop" thing, while misguided, also seems pretty genuine to me. Like I don't see a scenario where scum says it like that.

[Aeronaut]

Titus, Boon, Garmr all seem town.

Was thinking key was pretty town but some of what BBT said there was kind of true

How in the heck can you town read boon?

He has posted nothing.

Well, it's not a strong townread. I've just played with boon a few times before and had him in my games and know this is pretty usual for him.

[Aeronaut]

Prod received, will get on reading tonight/tomorrow

[Aeronaut]

Woo!

I can't say I was totally sure there but w/e. That works.

Garmr was counter-wagon to Dave - Garmr is town.

People who pushed Garmr/avoided Dave need to be looked at.

VOTE: Fire

This is scum.

What makes fire scum to you over the rest of the people who countered the dave wagon?

[Aeronaut]

Also, I'm feeling like the early <vote> on the Dave wagon means it definately belonged to A) a serial killer or B) A second scum faction not related to Dave's.

Although I'm of struggling to comprehend how a double voter on JUST ONE scum faction makes any sense balance-wise, unless there's two and someone just isn't using theirs.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: davesaz

Null on Gamr

Obvious bussing. Even gives himself a reason to jump off by 'looking into them both more later'. He had already done a 'bit of reading' and decided Dave was a good vote.

I vote Dave cause gamr wasn't pinging scum to me so went for next best thing

Making his vote look weak so he can easily backtrack from it.

Hmmm UNVOTE: davesaz

This wagon isn't that good either.
I am getting town from davesaz most.

While gamr is more active most of his content is well lackluster. I don't think it is really coming from scum though.

I don't really like either of these tbh.
Feels like two wagons on town.

Now he is getting town from Dave? Where did this come from? Unfortunately, Fire was so generic and vague about his reads that it's hard to criticize them. It does show a very clear lack of read progression though.

I guess gamr is a better wagon, but idk.
Don't really trust it.

Looking to hop on Garmr if presented with the opportunity of just Garmr or Dave.

I don't know who to vote!!!!

Someone give me compelling case in either.
This is frustrating neither appear scummy.

Acting like nobody had provided reasons for either Dave or Garmr being scum.

Can we speed lynch this?

Yea. I can get behind this

VOTE: Firebringer

[Aeronaut]

I think 1421 is especially weird, actually. He goes from having voted dave without explanation to saying he's "getting dave as town the most". Then, he ALSO says that it's because he doesn't like the dave wagon. Which is it, really?

[Aeronaut]

I wouldn't be surprised if that were just distancing.

[Aeronaut]

Rc did something useful.

We got lucky with Dave. But I tend to agree garmr is my likely scum unless he is on another scum team. Which considering the flip I tho k we have a vig and a SK.

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I dont like dave's wagon considering all my scum reads are there and I scum read garmr so my vote is better served there.

I actually like the honesty of this statement i.e I do not think scum would have been brave enough to say it.

I dunno about that, really. It's not a particularly strong position to take.

@Shazam, what are your thoughts now on the implications of davesaz's town-reads after his flip?

Let's be a little more explicit for Firebringer's benefit. The D1 lynch occurred at L-1 because there is a hidden vote in play. We don't know if it is a double voter, a silent voter, or what. In that light, any L-2 is a L-1.

BTW, I'm certain the Bella/Dom/Firebringer slot is town. Just so you know, observing my posts can show you, all you need to know is, the wagon on me is on town. I would be more circumspect if the count were lower, but it is a virtual L-1 in my eyes.

@MOD, V/LA until Sunday late afternoon.

Going camping and no internet on the mountain.

He said the Bella/Dom slot (AKA Annarchy) was town, even though HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS IN THE SLOT, because he said Firebringer. I believe he "townread" the slot because he was familiar with Bella/Dom being his scumpartners, but forgot who replaced in. VOTE: Annarchy

This makes more sense than the alternative view, which would be that he knew his current scumbuddy, but not their predecessors.

After thinking it over, I would prefer that people trust me and stop voting Firebringer rather than me explaining.

UNVOTE:

[Aeronaut]

Shazam, I feel like it's also possible that Dave had used his Cop at that point, and may have known that the slot was town and therefor was saying that for towncred.

[Aeronaut]

Therefore* damn autocorrect

[Aeronaut]

Wait how do you spell that? Both look wrong to me now

[Aeronaut]

Well, seeing that there was three kills it's pretty likely they don't

[Aeronaut]

Hence the cop ability

[Aeronaut]

??

P-edit @Key

@Shazam that's true.

[Aeronaut]

Also after a quick skim through Dave's iso shows Dave defending dragonspawn in a scum buddy like way

Can you say which posts specifically?

P-edit: So... He's not scum but he's an SK? What?

[Aeronaut]

Also after a quick skim through Dave's iso shows Dave defending dragonspawn in a scum buddy like way

Can you say which posts specifically?

P-edit: So... He's not scum but he's an SK? What?

don't know what your reading

Oh it was at Dragonspawn but I think he just meant an SK, instead of being one a scum

team

[Aeronaut]

P-dodge and Reading

[Aeronaut]

First, regarding Dragon/Dave:

Wow, busy weekend and the thread blew up while I wasn't looking.

Re 922 after a little looking I think I see it too. Obviously it would be hugely antitown to explain if it is indeed a guilty.
VOTE: Dragonspawn

I don't see a scenario where dave makes this post on his scumbuddy. Here he's pushing Garmr's unexplained and vague guilty on Dragon. Doesn't it make more sense for scumdave to want to question this a lot harder instead of pretending to "see" something if they were together?

That makes zero sense from a scum perspective. I feel like it's more likely that Dave saw Dragon as an easy mislynch and decided to just go with it.

[Aeronaut]

BBT why Titus?

[Aeronaut]

Sorry I did not mean to rub my inexperience all over your Dragoncase

I'll try to be be more careful about that next time

[Aeronaut]

I think the difference in what we're both seeing in that post is how we both view the guilty. If you had literally come out and said "Guys, I'm the cop, Dragon is scum." then yea, any competent scum player would be bussing their partner up the wazoo. But when you did your thing, it was something that was really vague and unclear about who had given the guilty, if everyone saw it, etc. I feel like a Dragon scum buddy would have tried to call bullshit on that, and Dave just didn't.

The switch over to you does interest me, though. You're right that that part of it is pretty sketchy AF.

[Aeronaut]

What do you think of Kitty, by the way?

[Aeronaut]

What do you think of Kitty, by the way?

Soft Kitty warm kitty little ball of fur
Kitty ignoring me and dave
makes me confused

Quick summary of all the cases brought so far.

Day 1

Spoiler:

-Dragonspawns defensiveness to people voting him in rvs.

-Dragonspawn acting stupid to try and get people to brush off the fact he was defensive.

-How easy a prolapsed counter wagon was built up yet DS was just as scummy if not more.

-now we have a dave flip we can see how defensive dave was of dragonspawn.

Got a few minutes before my next meeting, so I have an opportunity to write down some thoughts. I don't have a big enough window to do an in-depth reread, so need to shoot from the hip here.

Keyser is giving me uncomfortable feelings of matching the "scum leading town" or "too town to be scum" tell. Things turn out bad when I miss these signs. I'd rather put a weak scum read here and have it improve over time than dismiss him and have it bite me later.

Hard to tell if Shazam beetlejuiced or if this is merely the time he's online. Must wait to see if a pattern of posting times develops. That's a really weak tell though so I'm leaving him null for now.

I agree that Dragonspawn's reaction seemed more defensive than it should be. But I do that as town myself at times, so I can't really scum read him for it. OTOH I haven't really seen anything that screams town either. I won't go into details on what the deciding factor might be, as it's not a good idea when scumhunting to coach possible scum on how they'd get me to town read them.

BBT still gets a weak town read. Pushing wagons for dubious reasons is ok early in D1. Kinda like the submarine tactic of firing a torpedo to see what direction your contacts move.

Garmr bugs me but I'm not sure exactly why. It's pure gut, and I don't mind admitting it.

Pedit: @dragon The weak read on BBT would be limited time only. The torpedo trick only works once, then he gets to do actual scumhunting.

Here is dave trying to justify dragonspawns response.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain
Giving in to pressure seems rather scummy.

Here is dave jumping onto the counter wagon of ds.

-His reasoning for being on pb was pathetic.

I'm thinking pb needs some more pressure.

VOTE: pb

We need to get him talking and interacting.

DAY 2

Spoiler:

How does having a double voter mean it's a scum? Couldn't a townie have that pr too?

And how does that in any way implicate bbt? Just because he was pushing the wagon?

Seems to me that bulb would be more suspect since h specifically said he wanted to get the wagon to L1. I just don't know if the secret vote came before he joined us or not.

Look at this comment and how similar this is to daves.

Let's look at this:

Could be some ones a double voter

Dragon no point unvoting. It changes nothing.

You should rejoin wagon to make sure wagon is maintained in the case of Mod error.

@BlueBloodedToffee, you either knew about the scum PR which enabled the early hammer, or scum are setting you up for the miss-lynch. Your incessant push for Prolapsed Brain to be put near L-1 needs to be flagged.

This did catch my eye though. Why do you presume it is a scum PR? Couldn't it be a town double voter? One of the vote counts did have a <vote> inserted in the middle of the list.

These couple of posts tell a little story to me.

Anna night kill doesn't make sense from a scum point of view. More than likely a vig if anything. She didn't add much to the game. I could easily see a vigilante thinking she was scummy.

I saw nothing obviously town about Anna. In fact if I hasn't previous experience with her I would have suspected her more.

Anna was fairly obviously town; Kling was the vig shot if there is a vig.

Mykonian was 100% the scum kill. Could be multi-ball with scum also looking for other scum and killing Anna, that should be considered.

Also why would scum kill an obvious townie if they are looking for other scum?

These couple of post make me feel like dragonspawns team killed anna the way he behaves around the anna night kill is weird and not the type of interaction I would think of town. I don't think a townie would dwell on the one kill out of three so much.

The reason Garmr seems town to me is that the whole "RC was telling me to fake cop" thing, while misguided, also seems pretty genuine to me. Like I don't see a scenario where scum says it like that.

Really because I see that as a really scummy move. I didn't scum read him until that point.

It looks to me like he wanted to use the 'dragon was copped guilty by someone else' as a ploy to push a mislynch with the force of a cop claim and then be able to squirm out of it the next day if dragon flipped town.

Right now I am willing to go with bulb, garmr or bbt. All three are scummy IMHO.

so you think dragon is actually town can you tell me why

Could you tell me why I am?

And why you need to fake a guilty on me if its so obvious?

Has dave as a scum read yet when It become more and more obvious that I'm town that made a msitake pushes me as scum usning Similar logic as dave.

The reason Garmr seems town to me is that the whole "RC was telling me to fake cop" thing, while misguided, also seems pretty genuine to me. Like I don't see a scenario where scum says it like that.

Really because I see that as a really scummy move. I didn't scum read him until that point.

It looks to me like he wanted to use the 'dragon was copped guilty by someone else' as a ploy to push a mislynch with the force of a cop claim and then be able to squirm out of it the next day if dragon flipped town.

Right now I am willing to go with bulb, garmr or bbt. All three are scummy IMHO.

so you think dragon is actually town can you tell me why

Could you tell me why I am?

And why you need to fake a guilty on me if its so obvious?

This is just one example of him trying to push that I was trying to set him up and trying to get a lynch through on me.

Was going to make this longer but getting tired of typing while I see people ninja me in the preview

Like I said whole lot of nothin

Would you like to go into detail here?

[Aeronaut]

I suggest you to read what I am saying, but just in case:

I see no reason to end the day yet, so I am not going to push for a Dragonspawn lynch right now.

That's fair.

So, if you don't want to end the day, what would you like to discuss? Because you can't hide behind "I don't want to end the day" if you're just going sit and let the REST of us do stuff while you say nothing.

And honestly, if you really beleive you're lynching scum, what else would there be to discuss? Lynching scum's the goal, if that's what you really think you're doing by lynching dragon, then why are you stopping yourself in favor of discussion?

[Aeronaut]

I'm actually pretty sure dragon's town now.
VOTE: Annarchy

Back to the connection with davesaz.

There are some really sketchy turnarounds on DS right now.

Mainly Kitty and Shazams.

[Aeronaut]

Shazam what connection with Dave are you talking about in that post?

[Aeronaut]

Bye DS, hope life improves

[Aeronaut]

@Aeronaut

This has been discussed at least three times, and it's very interesting that you claim to not understand it still. This is the connection with davesaz:

Let's be a little more explicit for Firebringer's benefit. The D1 lynch occurred at L-1 because there is a hidden vote in play. We don't know if it is a double voter, a silent voter, or what. In that light, any L-2 is a L-1.

BTW, I'm certain the Bella/Dom/Firebringer slot is town. Just so you know, observing my posts can show you, all you need to know is, the wagon on me is on town. I would be more circumspect if the count were lower, but it is a virtual L-1 in my eyes.

@MOD, V/LA until Sunday late afternoon.

Going camping and no internet on the mountain.

He said the Bella/Dom slot (AKA Annarchy) was town, even though HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS IN THE SLOT, because he said Firebringer. I believe he "townread" the slot because he was familiar with Bella/Dom being his scumpartners, but forgot who replaced in. VOTE: Annarchy

This makes more sense than the alternative view, which would be that he knew his current scumbuddy, but not their predecessors.

I don't recall saying I didn't understand it. I just didn't really remember it for a moment and asked politely for you to reemphasize it.

[Aeronaut]

Ok, but I'm wondering how likely it is for scum to want to single out their buddy and say they're town when it was looking a lot like Dave was going to be the lynch at this point.

[Aeronaut]

Shazam I want to know if there's really specific reasoning behind why you want us to not lynch fire.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Kitty

[Aeronaut]

Scum would have tried to push a ml on me but town managed to change it around. Im a pr and idk what DS was talking about because I'm not a vanilla townie.

ummmmmmmmm

[Aeronaut]

Or it's scum who wants a vague claim to fall back on when they go to L-1

Why else say they're a PR right now? In what way is that town motivated

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Ronit

[Aeronaut]

Shazam voted for you.

[Aeronaut]

... But then he turns around and votes you. How does that make him town to you?!

[Aeronaut]

@Shazam how did you save my life? Anyways it isn't personal. Its just mafia.

Ok, so you just plain aren't reading the thread. Well I guess you can vote whoever you want then?

Scum would have tried to push a ml on me but town managed to change it around. Im a pr and idk what DS was talking about because I'm not a vanilla townie.

This is scum lol.

Could you explain? Seems to me like scum would not want to draw attention to themselves with such a weird claim.

Scum would have tried to push a ml on me but town managed to change it around. Im a pr and idk what DS was talking about because I'm not a vanilla townie.

VOTE: ronit

Dragon does not lie unless ABSOLUTELY necessary as any alignment. He stated VT. Under no circumstances would dragon lie and call himself a VT if he were a PR.

This might as well be a scum claim in my book.

Ok then. At least I know who to draw connections to if he's not scum. VOTE: ronit

Well I don't think scum would have claimed like that and then retracted and come up with such a reasonable defense for why they made the claim. I actually believe ronit.
VOTE: SCtH

What the actual fuck?

[Aeronaut]

Ok, Shazam is scum right along with Ronit then.

Vote Ronit today, Shazam tomorrow,

America Forever!

[Aeronaut]

@Pisskop: Fa_Q2 is on the VC two times

People who aren't voting Ronit, can you please tell me why? Besides Shazam who's talked at length about it and I guess Titus who I suppose is content to pretend she's got secret information that the rest of us don't have.

I feel like Shazam is being waffly as fuck here but something I'd rather lynch Ronit first and see what he flips.

Updated

[Aeronaut]

I'm like 90% sure it's going to be scum, though. I don't think I've seen a worse entrance

[Aeronaut]

Besides this

[Aeronaut]

Shazam you snuck in a vote for SCtH. Why's he scum?

[Aeronaut]

Yea, it's me because I was looking at the VC, clearly.

[Aeronaut]

Shazam you snuck in a vote for SCtH. Why's he scum?

Uh...you do realize who he replaced right?

Oh true

[Aeronaut]

Well shazam said we can't so

[Aeronaut]

I think I had mashed those two together in my head for some reason.

My b, shazam.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Ronit

Care to explain?
Gamr quote where DS was scummy, seeing as you made the best case in the game it shouldnt be that hard.

It's honestly your posting that's been pretty bad, tbh

[Aeronaut]

Bulba and shazam.... that's different.

[Aeronaut]

Scum = Aero, Titus, Boon....somewhere in there.

Why? Genuinely curious.

I didn't even realize bulb crumbed to be honest. Why would you shoot him BBT if you saw it?

Shazam doesn't make sense to me either. I feel like he was going to be under the most fire today.

[Aeronaut]

@Titus Eh, yea. But then Fire voted for shazam

@BBT in fairness I forgot too.

[Aeronaut]

and/or didn't see it in the first place. I don't really know which

[Aeronaut]

I could get behind kitty. She hasn't done a lot.

I don't think I could get behind BBT, though. I actually do see the Odd-night vig claim as plausible, but I feel like he would have said Odd-night to begin with if he were lying. I sort of wonder why he'd still be alive, though at this point.

Garmr what do you think of Key? I feel like he was really prominent and talkative early on and now he's basically nowhere.

[Aeronaut]

Also, the only person I'm sure of as town at this point is Garmr.

[Aeronaut]

@BBT in fairness I forgot too.

Forgot about what?

Bulb's crumb.

I'll probably die after a couple of scum have dropped. Scum team a(daves) Need to kill the other scum to = the field scum team B need to kill scum team a to have breathing room.

Why are you assuming it's two scum teams?

[Aeronaut]

and/or didn't see it in the first place. I don't really know which

[Aeronaut]

What?

[Aeronaut]

I didn't remember the crumb happening, same as you. I might just have not seen it or not remembered it.

[Aeronaut]

You said you forgot about it.

Which would imply you did see it.

What?

I said I don't remember either way. How is that alignment indicative?

[Aeronaut]

Nope, I really won't be lynched today.

[Aeronaut]

I don't know if i saw it. I could have seen it and have forgotten about it, or I could have not seen it in the first place.

Why is that hard to grasp?

[Aeronaut]

And again, why is that at all alignment indicative?

[Aeronaut]

Ok. Well if you feel the need to run me up to L-1 then have at it.

[Aeronaut]

I'd rather not go through that motion though.

[Aeronaut]

Ok.

Well while you're wasting time I'm going to vote scum.

VOTE: Kitty

[Aeronaut]

Oh jeeze

[Aeronaut]

If I'm not already lynched I'll post in a bit.

[Aeronaut]

Hmm... Ok I may have been wrong here.

UNVOTE:

[Aeronaut]

My original thoughts about Kitty were that she would just show up now and then and comment on one or two select things. I had also thought that what she said and what she voted were usually inconsistent, but looking back, (especially at the dragon wagon), Kitty actually had been saying she thought Dragon was town or at least null for a lot of the game before that. I also found a lot of posts of hers that were catchup that I guess I missed or just didn't see.

I don't really know why I had her pegged as being as shady and lurky as I did, but that just tells me that I need to read up on a few more things and see what I'm missing here.

[Aeronaut]

Boonskiies
Firebringer
FA_Q2
Saint Constantine the Hermit
Ankamius

[Aeronaut]

These people are total mysteries to me.

[Aeronaut]

Garmr was counter-wagon to Dave - Garmr is town.

People who pushed Garmr/avoided Dave need to be looked at.

VOTE: Fire

This is scum.

VOTE: davesaz

Null on Gamr

Obvious bussing. Even gives himself a reason to jump off by 'looking into them both more later'. He had already done a 'bit of reading' and decided Dave was a good vote.

I vote Dave cause gamr wasn't pinging scum to me so went for next best thing

Making his vote look weak so he can easily backtrack from it.

Hmmm UNVOTE: davesaz

This wagon isn't that good either.
I am getting town from davesaz most.

While gamr is more active most of his content is well lackluster. I don't think it is really coming from scum though.

I don't really like either of these tbh.
Feels like two wagons on town.

Now he is getting town from Dave? Where did this come from? Unfortunately, Fire was so generic and vague about his reads that it's hard to criticize them. It does show a very clear lack of read progression though.

I guess gamr is a better wagon, but idk.
Don't really trust it.

Looking to hop on Garmr if presented with the opportunity of just Garmr or Dave.

I don't know who to vote!!!!

Someone give me compelling case in either.
This is frustrating neither appear scummy.

Acting like nobody had provided reasons for either Dave or Garmr being scum.

Can we speed lynch this?

Hey BBT, I really liked this case, and it seems like you did to. What happened to it, why stop pursuing this and switch to voting for FA's "scum slip?"?

[Aeronaut]

Aero, why did you unvote kitty? I liked that vote.

I can't see Garmr as scum, due to the day 2 wagon? Whenever the scum was lynched; forgot the name of the dude.

I was really liking the kitty vote.

I wanted to look at some other people first.

Waiting for Aero to be lynched.

Answer what I asked you please.

[Aeronaut]

Garmr was counter-wagon to Dave - Garmr is town.

People who pushed Garmr/avoided Dave need to be looked at.

VOTE: Fire

This is scum.

VOTE: davesaz

Null on Gamr

Obvious bussing. Even gives himself a reason to jump off by 'looking into them both more later'. He had already done a 'bit of reading' and decided Dave was a good vote.

I vote Dave cause gamr wasn't pinging scum to me so went for next best thing

Making his vote look weak so he can easily backtrack from it.

Hmmm UNVOTE: davesaz

This wagon isn't that good either.
I am getting town from davesaz most.

While gamr is more active most of his content is well lackluster. I don't think it is really coming from scum though.

I don't really like either of these tbh.
Feels like two wagons on town.

Now he is getting town from Dave? Where did this come from? Unfortunately, Fire was so generic and vague about his reads that it's hard to criticize them. It does show a very clear lack of read progression though.

I guess gamr is a better wagon, but idk.
Don't really trust it.

Looking to hop on Garmr if presented with the opportunity of just Garmr or Dave.

I don't know who to vote!!!!

Someone give me compelling case in either.
This is frustrating neither appear scummy.

Acting like nobody had provided reasons for either Dave or Garmr being scum.

Can we speed lynch this?

Hey BBT, I really liked this case, and it seems like you did to. What happened to it, why stop pursuing this and switch to voting for FA's "scum slip?"?

[Aeronaut]

And I understand you've now switched to me, but

before that

you decided to switch to FA instead of that very real case you made yesterday.

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

Why are you unvoting?

[Aeronaut]

Kitty, do you have scum reads besides Garmr?

[Aeronaut]

Wait, what's a blue?

[Aeronaut]

Like a PR?

[Aeronaut]

.... ok

[Aeronaut]

When did I ignore you?

Also, did you suddenly start town reading me as soon as I unvoted you? Because that seems a bit convenient to me.

[Aeronaut]

Alright, I'll take a look there I guess.

[Aeronaut]

Spoiler: @Kitty

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

This ^ is what bothers me. A few votes into an RVS wagon and he's already guarded in this post.

So it's a serious vote for me. And it should be for you too.

OK, I missed this, so it IS serious. Why is this "being guarded"? It seems to me like he is just taking note of the behavior for later, not that he took it seriously as being against him at this time. I can see it looks defensive, but again, it feels like basic DS to me.

@Aeronaut- What is "clearly scum" about that post?

The real thing that struck me as being out of place in that post was definitely the "I'll make note of that for later" comment. It's casting doubt on a player without actually taking a stand on it. That kind of thing really pings for me usually. It also seems like he's overly critical at someone not offerring reasoning for voting him at a time in the game that was basically still RVS. It's an awkward, out of place post, which is usually the kind of post scum makes while trying to fit in.

Saying omgus is defensive?

No, not really.

I thought about it and I shall make that wagon on that good old dragonspawn a little bigger (Too much rhymes FTW)

VOTE: dragonspawn

So, you were happy with your RVS like two posts before this. What makes you change your mind?

VOTE: sword master

Anyone who is called master has to be evil

VOTE: sword master

Anyone who is called master has to be evil

VOTE: Dragonspawn
Anyone who is called spawn is evil!
Confirm

I mean, I don't even think it was OMGUS, more like "you too". Though it wasn't saying OMGUS that the bandwagoners are latching onto, but the post after:

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

The tone isn't really that defensive -- it actually sounds fairly relaxed -- though the meaning behind it is, in the end, defensive. At least, that's what it looks like, I think.

If my understanding of what OMGUS may or may not mean is incorrect, please, someone correct me.

It's not about the OMGUS mention at all, it's the post where he's like "Oh you're voting me and not providing reasoning in RVS? Better put that in my notes TSK TSK!"

Garmr is probably town. If he was scum hr would probably be bussing his partners right now.

What?

Defensive is your reaction to multiple RVs votes on yourself

Btw how can you make me being defensive the justification for your vote if you vote for me before the post that is supposedly defensive?

I mean it could be his justification for KEEPING his vote on you, but at the same time this is an interesting point.

I liked what the cow said about the DS thing.

@ Aero- concerning the bolded above, How is that alignment indicative? Is it lynch worthy?

Yea, I feel like those things could be alignment indicative, for what I've stated above. Having said that, I don't see a world where I would have lynched him over

just that post

. Sometimes I use my vote for pressuring players instead of just who I think needs to be lynched.

Aero, whare are ya?

Right here.

I mean they're questions about Dragon who's dead now, but since you're asking about my reasoning for the things I did, It's still relevant, I suppose. There were some interesting things in those posts actually that I want to address, so I'll get back to you on that.

[Aeronaut]

Boonskiies
Firebringer
FA_Q2
Saint Constantine the Hermit
Ankamius

You said that these people are mysteries to you, yet I get the impression you are scum reading Firebringer based on your interaction with BBT.
Are you scumreading all of them?

No, I don't think they're all scum. I have a slight townread on Boon and Fa, and a slight scumread on Firebringer regarding that interaction from Day 3. SCtH and Ank I have literally no idea, especially SCtH who's predecessor I couldn't read for shit in the first place.

But those people are mysteries to me meaning those reads are either purely gut, what I'm remembering from before, or nonexistant. So I'm looking back at them.

[Aeronaut]

Thinking fire right now. Waiting on BBT's response on that particular thing first.

wb you?

[Aeronaut]

Aeronaut, are you now in a position to explain this:

Annadog40,

[Town] Gunsmith

, has died Night 1.
Mykonian,

[Town] Citizen

, has died Night 1.
Klingoncelt,

[Town] Citizen

, has died Night 1.

One of these kills makes Garmr town

.

Really thought I had, to be honest.

Even if I did I guess that's a good thing to reiterate now. During D1 Garmr was the only one pushing for Kling, and he was pushing pretty hard. I had ALSO thought he posted some sort of crumb that he was a PR. Those two things + the fact that there were three kills made me assume he was probably a vig, and that it was him.

Looking back at it now, there are some holes in that theory. But, that's just what my thought process was then. It's been pretty debunked at this point.

[Aeronaut]

Thinking fire right now. Waiting on BBT's response on that particular thing first.

wb you?

Well I already went through this in 1919. Not much has changed since that. I do like your push on Kitty though. I wasn't really paying attention to her before that, but her reaction is interesting.

I will put out my vote in a couple of days.

Yea.

Honestly I was starting to think Kitty was town after that re-read, but her voting me after I vote her without much reasoning, and

then

her taking it off as soon as I took mine off is concerning to me.

Also just realizing Fa has literally posted once today.

[Aeronaut]

You know what, screw waiting

VOTE: Fire

[Aeronaut]

This is a great fucking case BBT, and if you aren't going to follow through with it, we'll lynch you tomorrow for fence sitting.

[Aeronaut]

Hey, thanks for pointing that out. Really pro-town of you.

No, nothing's changed.

[Aeronaut]

Where did she say she's always scumread you Garmr? Like which post?

[Aeronaut]

Would you like to show me where I EVER said town read you?

Or are you refering to my vote on Aero?

[Aeronaut]

I don't know. I think saying that she never said she townread you is different than saying she always scumread you.