Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Vivax]

VOTE: Vivax

It's been awhile since I last played with you

Yeah I think you were around when I got offered a leading position at a social media company, which I then declined to get a job instead.

Why the vote ?

[Vivax]

ew americans

i, for one, could never

VOTE: vivax

You didn‘t spell it with capital A so I suggest you cover up your windows or one of them might start shooting rockets into your bedroom.

I don‘t think I‘m easy to scare for one considering I‘ve spent my last years LARPing a monk who starts his journey with just a crafting recipe for concrete boots in his robes.

[Vivax]

It would be pretty funny if you got day 1 lynched again on another site though in a tragic kind of way

That‘s how badly people want me to host

[Vivax]

VOTE: outoforder

I could get behind this vote. I don`t see where the assumption I was scared came from if not from within.

VOTE: OutofOrder

(Hey DP, I think they`re trying to tell us we have to vote for him. I´m not sure but these people might be a cannibal tribe)

[Vivax]

Having joined this game specifically to play with outoforder I would rather not eliminate them for the lolz.

What happened to your white knight badge, did you get too close to an octopus ?

[Vivax]

I don`t see where the assumption I was scared came from if not from within.

you don't?

Nope. Give me a good reason to be.

[Vivax]

I don`t see where the assumption I was scared came from if not from within.

you don't?

Nope. Give me a good reason to be.

im scary

Is that how you want to be perceived ? Our goals differ then.
What makes you scary?

[Vivax]

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

[Vivax]

it would make it much easier to start getting firm reasons

How to conf bias in two simple steps: Vote first, find reasons later.

[Vivax]

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

Are you one of those "big on the acronyms" people :S

No, just big on the fingers

[Vivax]

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

I don`t even think it´s a good post so I´d disagree with DP. What´s townie about wanting to force a vote on yourself? If everybody played like that we`d never find mafia.

In the eventuality that Dann flipped mafia it would give room for the interpretation that I was partnered with Dann though. So if anything , it makes Dann look worse.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Dannflor

All things considered, seems like the best vote to me currently.
I´m a bit wary of superflousnjnja´s way of interceding between Dann and DP here, felt like a very safe entrance to make.

[Vivax]

vivax is there a reason you didn't explain random voting stage to your friend

I don´t view myself as above DP, we´re used to doing things differently. I like having him around cause he´s good at keeping my sanity in check, and I just pretend to be his angry chihuahua.

We´re past RVS now. If RVS was an issue, it´d be an issue for Roden as well. So that´s not the point of discussion we should be having in my opinion.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Dannflor

All things considered, seems like the best vote to me currently.
I´m a bit wary of superflousnjnja´s way of interceding between Dann and DP here, felt like a very safe entrance to make.

I don't really follow this logic. What is safe about taking a side in an ongoing conflict at this stage?

You isolated one of DP‘s posts to write about what you didn‘t like about it but it seemed to me you ignored the context in which it originated. Felt like you tried to pick out one of the posts to generate content instead of looking at the interactions as a whole.

Maybe as a means to endear you to one side of the discussion while appearing active.

[Vivax]

In other words, it felt rather awkward

[Vivax]

Do you really think i am mafia Vivax?

No.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Dannflor

All things considered, seems like the best vote to me currently.
I´m a bit wary of superflousnjnja´s way of interceding between Dann and DP here, felt like a very safe entrance to make.

I don't really follow this logic. What is safe about taking a side in an ongoing conflict at this stage?

You isolated one of DP‘s posts to write about what you didn‘t like about it but it seemed to me you ignored the context in which it originated. Felt like you tried to pick out one of the posts to generate content instead of looking at the interactions as a whole.

But why should the context matter? It's not like a waffle-y, "oh maybe don't take me so seriously" type of comment is suddenly less scummy just because it fits into something, yeah? The whole point of a tell is that you're able to discern things from it, REGARDLESS of the context. Tells should be things that stand on their own and stick out to you, regardless of what people try to bury it in, yeah?

But yeah, I was curious if you were going to bring this one up, and I see that you did...

Maybe as a means to endear you to one side of the discussion while appearing active.

Yeah. THIS is just nonsense. Why would an alleged scum version of myself want to make such clear lines in the sand when day 1 was, for me at least, less than an hour old? Like I know yall were talking while I was getting my beauty sleep, but the idea that I was actually trying to choose sides this early is just not logical. The LAST thing any scum ever wants to do, like ever, and much less at the very very beginning of the game, is have any clear allegiance with anyone. So this theory of yours seems like poor theorycrafting IMO.

Do you have any clear allegiances with anyone, in your opinion ? You initiated a suspicion arc on DP in a hit-and-run manner.
I guess what I'm asking for is that you take into consideration more than just that post from him while you have the advantage of being in a bystander position.

[Vivax]

That said, I don't disagree that DP could be mafia and that maybe you even had a point that I didn't acknowledge as valid. But most likely he's not mafia with Dannflor. That seems like a good division to work onwards from.

[Vivax]

UNVOTE: welp i got nothing from all that except a stronger confidence in DarthPunk as town

You made a legitimate point about how scum are more likely to take things seriously.

Darth argued with you at length about how random voting stage is rather silly, that each and every vote should be taken seriously. In other words, they made a case for why scum might take things seriously and created a space where their actions seem more understandable. They effectively tried to remove this strategy of yours to suspect people if they take things too seriously, which IMO is a totally valid strategy and your logic is sound, which now helps scum look less suspicious in this game if they overreact to things. Darth dispelled a totally valid point you made about something town could use to help find scum.

Your reaction to this was to forgive Darth and back off. Is that not, like, a bit odd? Aren't you concerned that Darth could be playing you here?

I especially like the conclusion of this post, ninja can be town.

Maybe I was wrong in that they can‘t be partnered, some of their attitudes towards each other were over the top but that could also be explained by DP rather siding with me and Dann rather with OOO. Could just be two townies fighting over thread influence too.

Back to work.

[Vivax]

ISOing Luca cause I didn‘t really see how he‘s scum (so far) like Outoforder is suggesting. Seems I missed the question.

VOTE: outoforder

I could get behind this vote. I don`t see where the assumption I was scared came from if not from within.

VOTE: OutofOrder

(Hey DP, I think they`re trying to tell us we have to vote for him. I´m not sure but these people might be a cannibal tribe)

Why did you wait for someone else to vote first if you found this suspect from Outoforder?

I didn‘t wait, it‘s how I found the thread when I opened it.
If I can find a reason to vote for him I will. The notion that I was scared from you didn‘t compute. Giddy would have been more accurate.

Can‘t finish the ISO currently but I wouldn‘t mind outoforder expanding on why Luca is scum.

[Vivax]

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

This is probably the worst reason ever to vote for anyone, but also not mafia reason lol

It‘s a terrible reason and you wanting to read town into it makes you suspicious.

Your post would have been fine if you didn‘t write the part past the comma.

[Vivax]

But you also think Luca looks scummy when he seems like the sanest person itt so meh, you might be mafia after all.

VOTE: outoforder

[Vivax]

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

Its ridiculous that yall let gob get away with this tbh.
I know im using ridiculous a lot, but this is an insanely terrible post

It's funny that you acknowledge this and think it's scummy, but somehow are oblivious to outoforder giving him a townread for it while you don't. If you are town then what does that make outoforder, or me for that matter?

Considering we think the same it's odd that you think I'm scummy but manage to overlook the entire reason that I'm voting him for yet is one you seem to be agreeing with.

If he's mafia though I congratulate you to what later will be a present scumclaim.

[Vivax]

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

Its ridiculous that yall let gob get away with this tbh.
I know im using ridiculous a lot, but this is an insanely terrible post

It's funny that you acknowledge this and think it's scummy, but somehow are oblivious to outoforder giving him a townread for it while you don't. If you are town then what does that make outoforder, or me for that matter?

Considering we think the same it's odd that you think I'm scummy but manage to overlook the entire reason that I'm voting him for yet is one you seem to be agreeing with.

If he's mafia though I congratulate you to what later will be a present scumclaim.

how does outoforder giving him a town read make outoforder scum rather than bad?

Wow I can hold 2 separate thoughts in my head big whoop lol.

He said gob‘s post was so bad that it made him town.

Why don‘t you double down on your separate thoughts and ask Outoforder the same question, or yourself for that matter:

Why does it make gob bad and not scum ?

Double standard spotted, Oats.

[Vivax]

On a reread:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

I'm curious now about the verse you mentioned.

to be specific i would like you to to spell out why you think that vote is terrible

How is it not?

Specifically, what is good about it and why did you make it?

I thought it was a little bit weird that outoforder took my original post about them seriously. I also found the "Im not too sure of anything yet" to be overly noncommittal

but I wanted to see what people would assume of my vote if I left out the explanation

I think DP calling the vote terrible was because at the time it didn't look like Dann had any reason to place it at all from a townie point of view. He came into the thread voting for me, DP interceded, they both said they went into this game specifically to play with player X/Y (being me/OOO). This explanation misses the mark.

The only possible one could be #58 which preceded the vote from Dann.

That already moves Dann into mafia territory.

If Random voting is some part of the metagame here then that is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

Im thinking its dannfloor VOTE: dannfloor

this guy is probably mafia #2

If you look at Gob in thread context, he's mostly around placing votes seemingly at random. He'd be an irk to mafia who are trying hard to appear normal. The vote on Dannflor makes OOO scumread him, but the poor contrived explanation for the vote on me makes OOO townread him. Doesn't make sense to me.

I think those can already be two mafia with Oats as the third (feel sorry for him if he is to find his teammates in this state).
So

Dann/OOO/Oats

would be my picks for today.

[Vivax]

I found Roden very townie so far.
Laid back much even.

Out of the trio, OutofOrder has the highest odds of just being a scummy townie in my opinion. Mafia playing openly like mafia is good play though so I don't want to freepass that.

Dunnstral and Naerys are those I can't get a read on. They have their pokerface on, Naerys has opinions at least. Just not very verbose about them, so it's hard to tell if there's genuine thought behind them.

Gob is just chaos but he doesn't seem like he has an agenda. Can't tell if he's even serious about what he writes.

[Vivax]

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?

For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.

We can vote him for it. In his defense though, that's how he's learned to play.

[Vivax]

Mafia openly acting scummy is good play.
Primarily cause the main expectation is for them to be in survival mode. That's why logic is only moderately useful. Most of the time you'll wonder why someone playing like that is trying to get himself killed. It's not even wifom cause it's their survival on the line.

In this instance I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.

Maybe for gob as a whole he can be town but not for that post he looked at in isolation. I mean, why should he have been supposed to know gob wasn't right on me for the wrong reasons? Calling the post terrible and saying that makes him likely not mafia without knowing my alignment is just too much confidence if he doesn't know two alignments. Especially if he's townreading me, shouldn't mafia be pushing townies ?

[Vivax]

We need to lim between Naerys / Vivax / SuperflousNinja

OutofOrder's tone has been consistent since the begining of the game. He also did progress the first page on his own pretty much.

SuperflousNinja's posts are really long and kinda void of anything worthwhile (in my opinion). So I am thinking she could also be mafia. Naerys not really sure on.

Luca repeatedly pointed out that OoO switched up his tone to a more aggressive demeanor, he also pointed it out for Roden.

So the tone consistency thing is something you are disagreeing on diametrally.

What does that make your read on Luca ?

[Vivax]

Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.

everyone get on vivax

Honestly you remind me of one of those peasants from Monty Python.

Luca said OOO hasn‘t been consistent, you say he has. That‘s the point. Your opinions differ, that should bother you, because it bothers me if it doesn‘t.

[Vivax]

Dunnstral‘s scum meter is increasing proportionally to him not playing the game.

I don‘t care if he looks old and has cat ears.

[Vivax]

I would also like people to explain why they are voting for OoO

You don‘t find it funny that DP thought he was rayn ?

It‘s like every account on the internet that claims to be from Finland is actually rayn.

Dude must be like Schroedingers kitty

[Vivax]

Just got off work and it's raining napalm and baby kangaroos in here hijole

[Vivax]

Dannflor's big case on superfluousninja (which totally isn't some random generated amongus name) appears attractive.
His two follow up posts have that certain satisfied nailed it vibe so he can be town.
I think that perhaps he was holding back from calling those things out initially for some reason, maybe they have some history of playing together and he wanted to give superflous some room to post before deciding to push her.

Waiter, I'll have what he's having.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Catch up post.

VOTE: outoforder

VOTE: Dannflor

Terrible.

If you want me to talk more about why I am a little sus of DarthPunk, this reaction is part of the reason why.

Outoforder said a thing about they think Dannflor might be trying to cozy up to them. Dannflor then reacted by voting for Outoforder.

Now you can either look at that as a joke, or you can see that Dannflor is unironically just trying to distance himself from Outoforder. One interpretation is that this was meaningless and another is, IMO, totally understandable. Thus, I don't really get why DarthPunk took so much issue with it. It's scummy to take issue with stuff on flimsy evidence, since scum know they're never going to get solid evidence of anything and thus must jump on even the flimsiest of cases and hope it somehow blows up into something legitimate.

Like it's just weird I guess. It didn't strike me as a scummy activity at all so I guess I just don't follow the thought process that might make someone think it was, other than a very simplified "there's a vote with little rationale behind it, go after it", which isn't much of a case so early in the day.

There is nothing scummy there.
I don't know Dannflor from before, how do you take that?

I dunno? None of my takes have been based on anything that happened in any games previous to this one. If you and Dannflor had some long and storied history with one another, I'd still hope that you evaluated his thoughts and actions in the context of this game and not biased by previous ones. I don't have any history with anyone here, but speaking for myself, if I did, I'd honestly do everything in my power to forget it and force myself to judge their thoughts and actions in this game and this game alone.

I'm not sure what to make of everything you just said and did. You offered a lot of opinions but hardly any rationale for any of it. I don't think any of us are particularly concerned with exactly what you believe as we are with WHY you believe it.

Like let me press you for more info on a few things, give me a moment...

(wow, 4 new posts since I started writing this)

I would like you to press me more on this please.

I like OOO wanting to get pressed here. Mostly because of meta reasons, I like it when OOO is setting traps or checking to see if his expectations are met within certain interactions. It means he is thinking about thread dynamics and trying to deduce people's alignments internally and I think this is more likely to be part of his natural process as town.

I don't like his Luca Read though, at this point in the thread, Luca has seemed to me pretty townie, and I have not really disagreed with any of their thoughts or conclusions.

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

This doesn't make any fucking sense, especially in the context of random voting on this site.

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

This is probably the worst reason ever to vote for anyone, but also not mafia reason lol

I agree, but I also disagree that they can't be mafia here.

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

This is probably the worst reason ever to vote for anyone, but also not mafia reason lol

It's honestly not that bad. Statistically it checks out im pretty sure.

It is.

But you also think Luca looks scummy when he seems like the sanest person itt so meh, you might be mafia after all.

VOTE: outoforder

I understand this vote, but I don't think that his Luca read makes OoO mafia.

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

Its ridiculous that yall let gob get away with this tbh.
I know im using ridiculous a lot, but this is an insanely terrible post

Oats looking good.

Lets discuss something important...

Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO

These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.

Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.

VOTE: Vivax

Its ridiculous that yall let gob get away with this tbh.
I know im using ridiculous a lot, but this is an insanely terrible post

It's funny that you acknowledge this and think it's scummy, but somehow are oblivious to outoforder giving him a townread for it while you don't. If you are town then what does that make outoforder, or me for that matter?

Considering we think the same it's odd that you think I'm scummy but manage to overlook the entire reason that I'm voting him for yet is one you seem to be agreeing with.

If he's mafia though I congratulate you to what later will be a present scumclaim.

how does outoforder giving him a town read make outoforder scum rather than bad?

Wow I can hold 2 separate thoughts in my head big whoop lol.

He said gob‘s post was so bad that it made him town.

Why don‘t you double down on your separate thoughts and ask Outoforder the same question, or yourself for that matter:

Why does it make gob bad and not scum ?

Double standard spotted, Oats.

Ah yes when someone disagrees with me they must be scum. of course. makes me have a double standard.

Gob post is bad because hes trying to apply intent to a phase in the game with no intent, so clearly hes just posting for the sake of posting, and "trying" to find a reason to jump on you, the current most popular target.

There is intent in RVS stage. The mafia commonly vote their partner in RVS stage to "distance."

It is a bad play, mind you. But people do it often.

Although i do admit i was posting for the sake of posting.

OK.

VOTE: GOB

If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.

I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.

Very weird change of direction here from Ninja, has just started a push onto OOO and then kind of undermines themselves with an elim lurkers tangent. Undermining your own pushes is scummy because you can act like you are invested and doing stuff but you are also limiting the effect of your push in essence doing something while achieving nothing, which is the goal as mafia.

However I am very much in a tizzy over what OutOfOrder has been doing and saying (and NOT saying, more importantly) so I am leaving my vote there for the time being and hoping for a response. I am murican and this is my bed time so I will see you all in my murican morning.

Yeah just a bit all over the place to be honest.

If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.

What lack of activity?

LOL I guess Roden and Ninja can't be mafia together at least.

I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.

Sus post. Looks like you're just going after low hanging fruit. The games been open for like a day? Give it time

Agree with this.

Also of all the posts you choose to respond to that one is very funny roden

I have no idea who you are

I'm assuming you're another of Vivax's off site friends?

You mind answering this, Oats?

Why does this matter @RODEN? weird way to respond to being (correctly) called out, I guess you are trying to undermine his thread presence?

I don't need to case someone who already confirmed themselves as scum lol

Scummy

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Agree with this, this is also why I think Luca is town, just too sensible and insightful at the right times to be maf imo.

It's also the second time a seemingly passive player has burst into life and suddenly gone ultra-aggressive, which as I said earlier I read as more likely to come from scum who are having a hard time blending it otherwise and feel the need to create waves. Doing so against a partner would be a safer route of achieving this. Outoforder at least comes across as Townie to some extent, which I'm not seeing from Roden yet.

Although I really don't like the preflip associative reads at all. So thats bad. But not maf.

Then vote Oats

I'd rather vote you, as I don't believe the way you're portraying your view of the game to be real. It's feels as if you're overcompensating.

Ok, found the second scum

This guy is just mafia.

If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.

What lack of activity?

Does anyone find it interesting that Roden reacted like this to my post, and THEN came the aggressive showdown with Oats? Because I certainly do.

I'm totally on board with Lucas's sentiments that the whole Roden vs. Oats thing seems overblown. However when Oats got personal, it made me realize they're probably just being a jerk, and I've learned that being a jerk actually kinda tends to be a town tell. Scum wouldn't take it personally to be viewed as suspicious since they clearly are guilty, but town views it as an attack on their mafia skill to be innocent but viewed as guilty, and they have the confidence of knowing their own innocence, so from those two things I can see where the "being a jerk" thing comes about. Which is all a long winded way of saying I don't really view oats as scummy here.

Roden's reaction is a bit different and again seems possibly driven by what I said. Could just be overconfident town, but to talk directly to Roden here, please realize what you're doing here isn't helpful, your case is very flimsy, and now you're having to play defense. If you're actually town, it would behoove you to find a way to put this behind us, and continuing what seems like a bad case against oats probably won't get us there.

Why do you Imply Roden's reaction is scummy and then you talk to him as if he is town? This post is big waffle that doesn't do anything or really say anything.

I disagree that town players are more likely to be a Jerk. I will tell you that TL players are more likely to be aggressive in their interactions.

I found Roden very townie so far.
Laid back much even.

are we reading the same game?

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?

For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.

We can vote him for it. In his defense though, that's how he's learned to play.

I can vouch for this, Its a TL thing.

I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.

Sus post. Looks like you're just going after low hanging fruit. The games been open for like a day? Give it time

I hate to toot my own horn, but I feel like if there's anyone in this game that you could accuse of "just going after low hanging fruit", it certainly isn't me.

I am immediately sus of anyone who is pushing back on what I said (the main reason I said it was to see who would do so / how people would react). There's little to no incentive for townies to discourage people from using what is historically a pretty decent scum tell. But there's PLENTY of scummy reason for scum, who often struggle to find useful things to say, to push back against anyone sending out a reminder that a lack of meaningful contribution is significant.

Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?

Spoiler, its not.

Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?

Sure, let's look at the most recent Mini Normal game that resolved: viewtopic.php?t=92058

Scum team was HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, and Purplemango.

The game had 4147 total posts and lasted for 5 days. With 13 total players, the average contribution of a player is then 4147 / 13 = 319, as your point of reference.

Total number of posts from the scum team:

HighPrincessErinys: 162 (died at end of day 3, so 2 days where no activity would be expected)
Hu Tao: 459 (alive all 5 days)
Purplemango: 103 (alive all 5 days)

Even if we extrapolate HighPrincess's post count for a full 5 days of survival, that would only put them at about 250, still less than the average contribution of 319 posts. Purplemango is clearly well below average at 103. Hu Tao is slightly above average, which I concede, but not above the average by much. Hu Tao was alive for all 5 days, which the majority of players were not, and only managed to come in just above the average.

You can compare that to other very active townies like Flavor Leaf who posted 1130 times and Dragon eater who posted 722 times. When you're a townie, you can post a lot more frequently with much more confidence.

It is not an entirely infallible method. But it is certainly a pretty decent one.

If you tried this on my home site you would not get very far at all.

We need to lim between Naerys / Vivax / SuperflousNinja

OutofOrder's tone has been consistent since the begining of the game. He also did progress the first page on his own pretty much.

SuperflousNinja's posts are really long and kinda void of anything worthwhile (in my opinion). So I am thinking she could also be mafia. Naerys not really sure on.

Don't like the let's lynch into X players, really easy to just not include the mafia there as mafia. I agree on the Ninja read tho.

Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.

everyone get on vivax

Honestly you remind me of one of those peasants from Monty Python.

Luca said OOO hasn‘t been consistent, you say he has. That‘s the point. Your opinions differ, that should bother you, because it bothers me if it doesn‘t.

Good post.

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?

For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.

We can vote him for it. In his defense though, that's how he's learned to play.

This actually answers the question I was asking Oats earlier. His play felt super similar to Punk's, who comes from a different site, so it made me think he probably came from there as well. In that case, it would explain the instant aggression and over-the-top criticism towards the town and site culture. Oats refusing to answer that question though made me think he knew I just detected his scum tell, but that he wasn't from the same site as Punk and couldn't lie and say he was, and so refusing to answer was his only way to shrug off pressure as scum.

It turns out no, he's just unhelpful and abrasive for literally no reason besides being taught bad habits.

UNVOTE:

Bit of the pot calling the kettle black here.

There is intent in RVS stage. The mafia commonly vote their partner in RVS stage to "distance."

It is a bad play, mind you. But people do it often.

Although i do admit i was posting for the sake of posting.

Emphasis mine. I just wanted to highlight this one too as what I think is clearly non-townie behavior.

This is a good pickup, I like ninja when she is posting less waffle and actually just gets to the point (ironic I know with this catchup post )

Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?

Sure, let's look at the most recent Mini Normal game that resolved: viewtopic.php?t=92058

Scum team was HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, and Purplemango.

The game had 4147 total posts and lasted for 5 days. With 13 total players, the average contribution of a player is then 4147 / 13 = 319, as your point of reference.

Total number of posts from the scum team:

HighPrincessErinys: 162 (died at end of day 3, so 2 days where no activity would be expected)
Hu Tao: 459 (alive all 5 days)
Purplemango: 103 (alive all 5 days)

Even if we extrapolate HighPrincess's post count for a full 5 days of survival, that would only put them at about 250, still less than the average contribution of 319 posts. Purplemango is clearly well below average at 103. Hu Tao is slightly above average, which I concede, but not above the average by much. Hu Tao was alive for all 5 days, which the majority of players were not, and only managed to come in just above the average.

You can compare that to other very active townies like Flavor Leaf who posted 1130 times and Dragon eater who posted 722 times. When you're a townie, you can post a lot more frequently with much more confidence.

It is not an entirely infallible method. But it is certainly a pretty decent one.

There are so many things wrong with this. First of all you're taking averages in that game and comparing the mafia to be above or below average posting rate. In this game, you've simply said the three lowest posters are mafia. In reality only Purplemango is in the lowest 3 in the game you've linked. You're also using a game where 2 town players have way more posts than normal which are two outliers that is throwing everything out of whack. Finally you've presented a sample size of one which isn't enough to say that this is a trend that occurs over multiple games.

For someone this sensible I really wish you contributed more.

Reads:

Oats: Tip Top Town.
Luca: Town
OOO: Lean town
Dannflor, Vivax : doing stuff
Hu Tao, Dunnstral, Nareys: Sensible, but need to post more.
Lean Mafia: Ninja
Mafia: GOB and Roden.

My Vote is on GOB by the way, it's buried in that catchup post.

I could also vote for Ninja or Roden.

I'm around now and keen to interact or answer any questions.

Oats I do think you could tone down the aggression levels and probably find more success leading the town.

I probably could but there are some absurd things being said, it’s very difficult

I mean I don't disagree. We are guests though, always nice to be polite.

That's a lot to digest. I'm going to try and keep it simple and I'm better at gaining insights in the morn anyway.

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).

As for Roden I concede that I need to reevaluate especially after the part with the 'offsite friends' thing which is like a meek complaint that he's getting five-finger-death-punched by Oats consistently and he's silently blaming me for bringing him into this mess. To that I have to say that everyone is here out of their own free will and we aren't off the table for each other while being from the same community (which is a concern town Roden might legitimately hold with sufficient paranoia), it's just that our site doesn't host that much lately.

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

[Vivax]

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

I don't think it was strategically wise for you to place Dannflor in the top tier town here and calling his arguments good when he's voting for you. If it's some kind of reverse psychology thing, Gob already took the spot for being in charge for that.

Got to give it to DP that asking for a list post after that humongous wall of pressure from Dann was pivotal to the generation of this reaction. Oats on the other hand displaying possible signs of a bus with the quick vote and later unvote. If they're paired it must look like napalm to him indeed. Noted, but not damning.

[Vivax]

What happens if the people that are acting scummy are just scum though? Occam's Razor and all that.

It's a bit of a site meta thing. What you might define as scummy could just be a way to play that you don't deem as efficient. It always helps to pretend that there's a bunch of Chezinus in the game (troll player from our site).

I always go into games thinking that a bunch of players are just actors who play as distractors. Not that it has to be the case but it helps me with the sorting. I've met a lot of nasty distractor questions during exams.

[Vivax]

If I were Superfluousninja and had written the amount she has and Dannflor just came out of nowhere and stuck a wall of accusations to my face of which some are of the type that he could have presented earlier, you bet I'd start poking into said wall before thinking to myself 'oh he's town'.

[Vivax]

If I rolled scum in this game I‘d NK a certain someone just to be able to post that Luca Blight sleeps with the fishes. Couldn‘t resist.

I like the page I‘m on in this game with most of you so far. Some very good input here.

UNVOTE:

We‘re not in a rush and I‘d like to see the followup to these exchanges before I place a new vote. Should probably make a list too, but not tonight.

[Vivax]

I really take issue of ninja basically accusing me of not knowing my own alignment...

I like a Ninja lynch better than a Luca lynch to be honest.

Luca to me just seems to be freely posting whatever thoughts they happen to have at the time.

I don't think inconsistencies in thought processes are

purely

a mafia trait tbh.

Townies can do it too, cause they are just posting whatever pops into their heads.

While i understeand being used to using the word Lynch, i am officially asking that you take more caution in choosing your words

Sorry, it really wasn't intentional and I have been trying.

Its a habit formed over 15 years.

Great now this game sounds like a session of alcoholics anonymous

[Vivax]

Going over old posts a bit.

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

To summarize and make my point a little clearer, I generally find statements like "well don't take what I said too seriously" to be scummy.

I'm curious about this approach that I didn't like at glance back then. It felt like a very safe, scumhunty post to make but is also a bit too much out to get DP at that early stage.
Part 1: Complaint that it's too early for him to have valid reads.
Part 2: Complaint about DP summarizing (which is what Luca actually did with Dann's posts and DP townread him for) while DP seemed like he was townreading Dann for wanting me to exacerbate my suspicions on him.

The next post is a bit of a misrepresentation. It frames DP as if he was invalidating his own reasoning when he was just assigning a lower weight to his early thoughts. The way it reads one could think that Darth was just posting things that wouldn't have meaning for his process but I don't think that was the case.

To summarize and make my point a little clearer, I generally find statements like "well don't take what I said too seriously" to be scummy.

I tend to agree in general. In this instance I was referencing specifically coming from a different site with a heavily cultivated metagame and finding it a bit jarring playing when I don’t understand others expectations and weird random shit is happening that I would usually not expect is going on.

This response from him is unusually tame in my opinion. It's like it didn't bother him as much as it should have that Ninja was insta-scumreading him for not wanting to overcommit to the little information he had. Especially the 'attempted takseybacksies'-part implies that Ninja should have a strong scumread on him because she automatically assumes he's trying to weasel himself out of something, but there's not really a followup to her DP read, instead she switches to going after OOO afterwards.

Partnered, maybe?

[Vivax]

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Yeah mine didn‘t work either so I carpeted half a page.

Do you think that Naerys voting pattern looks bad ? What makes her stand out for you over Dunn and Hu Tao ?

[Vivax]

Anyways here is where i basically stand at the moment:
Town:
Dannflor
Vivax
Oatsmaster
gob
Roden
Probs town:
DarthPunk
Scummers be here:
Luca Blight
Dunnstral
Naerys
SuperfluousNinja
Hu Tao
Replaced:
MalcolmTucker

My problem is, while Dann's case on Ninja is good and reasonably sound, currently pretty much all of my scum pool agree with that.
So basically i am either very wrong, or if Ninja is mafia, there's probably one mafia agreeing with the case and then the Malcolm slot.
I have some reservations, but i would like to wait for Ninja to give her opinion on what Dann said, before going deeper on this.

Why do you always hedge on me being town.

I like how DP got the probs town spot though lol.
Imagine going over this interaction if somehow one of you flipped mafia.

[Vivax]

It‘s a bit much to digest. I think it would help your cause a lot if you and Dannflor would just KISS.






And by that I mean to keep it simple, stupid.

Makes it easier to extrapolate what in the fuck you want to be doing at all because it looks like everything at once and it feels like I‘m chasing a headless horseman to find out.

Anyway. It‘s tricky. I find it bad for Oats that I was the only one really suspecting him so far while I think there‘s reason to, so I‘ll have another go ar him.

[Vivax]

I got about 7 minutes.
I‘m more comfortable with the game when Dann and Ninja can both be town in it.

I think Dann might play like someone with a hidden agenda but I‘m not sure that it makes hin mafia.

[Vivax]

for transparency, im somewhere around here right now:

TOWN: Luca Blight, outoforder, Oatsmaster
LEAN TOWN: gob, Hu Tao, SuperfluousNinja
MIXED/NULL: Dunnstral, Naerys, MalcolmTucker, Roden
LEAN SCUM: Vivax
SCUM: DarthPunk

I‘d have Dunn, DP , OOO and Oats in lean scum currently. Others lean town except for Malcolm.

Dunn more of a null though for lack of content. It‘s just that he gives off a scummy breeze I can‘t place my finger on.

You and Ninja towned it up during this phase.
I‘m flattered that you think I could be scum.

[Vivax]

Okay, I need a shower lol.

Mate if I wrote what you did in that time span I‘d need a five week vacation not just a shower.

[Vivax]

Okay, I need a shower lol.

Mate if I wrote what you did in that time span I‘d need a five week vacation not just a shower.

Vivax can you explain your lean scum reads on Me, Oats and OOO.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

That's the short version. Need to put some into the game now that I'm back so my opinion might just change again and if not I'll tell you more.

[Vivax]

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

You can be town

Like honestly why in the fudge did this warrant a townread, I got the opposite vibes.

[Vivax]

I got the sense that he was just handing out shitty nothing town reads at the time, he gave one to Dann too that I also didn't really understand or take seriously.

Yeah while being under pressure.
Nothing better than handing out correct townreads while under pressure to reduce the pool of people who might want to vote you.

I don't think I have ever seen mafia that calls everyone in the game scum or picks unpopular scumreads. They are usually more sentiment based.

[Vivax]

Vivax prolly town too

Shortly afterwards he also towned me ignoring that our conclusions were the polar opposite.
He should have just filtered me and seen that our opinions differed, at the very least he could have used it as a point of engagement.

Isn't that throwaway manner of handing out reads in contrast to the diligence he attempts to display later ?
Anyway if he's scum there's probably more I can find.

[Vivax]

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

Dannflor ejected thread for a while without answering this question, at the time.
Maybe I should just sheep Luca.

[Vivax]

Luca is just commenting, they are not trying to solve.

Does anyone agree with this ? At the time it was very early in the game and the way OOO went about it felt very antsy, like he was forcing a solve when he should know that information will flow into the thread naturally. It's like he was spamming for a while blasting out a few townreads, called it solving and because Luca didn't do it in the same way he was scum.

VOTE: OOO

[Vivax]

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

Dannflor ejected thread for a while without answering this question, at the time.
Maybe I should just sheep Luca.

i'm not sure Dann is town.

I liked the fact he wrote that case on ninja, but he didn't really do anything with it, and now he has a case on me he is not really doing anything with.

Seems to me he is attacking big voices ITT and then not really achieving anything and I am not sure he actually cares about determining our alignments as much as he cares about the fact he wrote a case.

Like cases are fine, but where is the follow up pressure/ questioning? He just doesn't seem invested or curious beyond his like big case post and for the confidence that he seems to have, lack of follow up is a big big red flag.

Marv is usually big on evaluating post timing and he's called me scum for evading questions a few times (correctly at that) or because my response was too delayed. I think that was big part of our site culture, being APM-fetishists in a strategy game and all.

Him evading Luca's question there reminded me of that. I'm not sure why you're blocking me off on OOO but I think I'm moving Dann back out of the town pile.

[Vivax]

Beginning from #202 Hu Tao had the same thoughts I had on the reread now, mostly. I think I'll treat it as a town point.

Then I scumread Oats because he wasn't all over OOO for townreading Gob with that post. Probably a pretty good reason from me considering he came into with the tone of an angry something and was scumreading me while I in turn was scumreading OOO.

Consider these statements.
Me: OOO scum, gob town.
OOO: Gob town.
Oats: Vivax scum, Gob scum.

How does someone from Oats' position who doesn't post an opinion on OOO at all see him calling Gob's post terrible AND giving him a townread for it prioritize calling me scum first?

OOO, Oats, Dann it is. If not Dann then DP.

[Vivax]

If you read P11 and think Roden is scum then you should replay the tutorial

[Vivax]

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

Dannflor ejected thread for a while without answering this question, at the time.
Maybe I should just sheep Luca.

i'm not sure Dann is town.

I liked the fact he wrote that case on ninja, but he didn't really do anything with it, and now he has a case on me he is not really doing anything with.

Seems to me he is attacking big voices ITT and then not really achieving anything and I am not sure he actually cares about determining our alignments as much as he cares about the fact he wrote a case.

Like cases are fine, but where is the follow up pressure/ questioning? He just doesn't seem invested or curious beyond his like big case post and for the confidence that he seems to have, lack of follow up is a big big red flag.

Marv is usually big on evaluating post timing and he's called me scum for evading questions a few times (correctly at that) or because my response was too delayed. I think that was big part of our site culture, being APM-fetishists in a strategy game and all.

Him evading Luca's question there reminded me of that. I'm not sure why you're blocking me off on OOO but I think I'm moving Dann back out of the town pile.

I said at the start of the game I didn't want to lim anyone from TL right away.

I also never want to lim strong townies day one period, unless its really obvious/strong case. its just - EV over time.

If you want me to vote for OOO you will need to provide more evidence.

Like it would be crazy to elim him over roden or gob or dunn right now.

None of those are my scumreads though, and Dunn is a weak one based on almost nothing so I doubt I'm going to be voting into what you're suggesting.

Why isn't Dannflor one of your choices? I thought that was your sentiment.

[Vivax]

If you read P11 and think Roden is scum then you should replay the tutorial

Can you point out how that isn't scummy lol?

Like what am I missing here? is it some emotional congruence argument?

it seemed to me he just decided to attack someone and then went all out without really believing what he was saying. It came off as very fake to me.

Can you consider a world in which oats is town, what does this interaction look like in that world?

Oats is the tide and he is the rock. Oats is the beagle and Roden is the eagle. One is one with the wolf, and the other prefers to play golf.

[Vivax]

I really don’t see whatever it is you are seeing in that interaction vivax. Roden’s play looks like exactly what I would as mafia in that circumstance.

Sounding consistently righteous is hard for scum to pull off but it‘s what the majority of his posts sound like.

Dunno, feels like an easy TR.

[Vivax]

outoforder can be town

Why? I think they are overreacting right now

Luca is just commenting, they are not trying to solve.

So you're expecting someone to solve in the 5 pages? Also why was his question not trying to solve?

lets murder mafia ok?

Seems like a bit of a stretch. I don't see what makes Luca scummy. Especially for asking a question that makes sense

UNVOTE: welp i got nothing from all that except a stronger confidence in DarthPunk as town

If you did it for a reaction, why not wait for outoforder's reaction?

this guy is prolly scum.

Actually this is a good question

These.

[Vivax]

I really don’t see whatever it is you are seeing in that interaction vivax. Roden’s play looks like exactly what I would as mafia in that circumstance.

Sounding consistently righteous is hard for scum to pull off but it‘s what the majority of his posts sound like.

Dunno, feels like an easy TR.

I like this post.

It wasn't what I was thinking from the interactions but I can see this read coming from a townie.

Although why did you first call Roden town for being laid back??

In relation to Oats and me at the time he was.
Call it a calm aura. Either way, he didn’t seem to be nervous at first. Later he appeared genuinely angry at oats but he also admitted it.

[Vivax]

We‘ll just have to disagree on Roden.
Maybe it‘s an avatar thing. Props to you if you understand what I mean by this.

[Vivax]

Last VC said that the fog is coming. There‘s also two listings of OoO.

Anyway. I can do more after today. I might go for another reset. It bugs me that Roden seems to be an universal scumread and Oats an universal townread.

I think to myself that me being town and contrarian on these two, at least some mafia would attempt to be supportive of that if I were wrong on them. Egocentric I know.

[Vivax]

OoO vs Dannflor is what I‘d like to see, and also an update on his read on Luca given he seemed very confident about him being scum early.

He is quite too focused on low postcount players for my taste.

Hell, if he‘s really rayn and town he should moreso be gunning for Dann since he tends to go for ambitious launches.

[Vivax]

I feel like a number of people (and people pretty familiar with Vivax?) have said various things along the lines of Vivax seeming different this game or that he seems scummy or that his reads don't make sense - and I'm wondering why no one actually seems to want to vote him

VOTE: Dannflor

You could say that about more people than just me.
I feel like I want to fight you, so that‘s what I am going to do once I get home.

Get your vote off Roden and case me instead at least we‘ll have some action.

[Vivax]

I feel like a number of people (and people pretty familiar with Vivax?) have said various things along the lines of Vivax seeming different this game or that he seems scummy or that his reads don't make sense - and I'm wondering why no one actually seems to want to vote him

VOTE: Dannflor

You could say that about more people than just me.
I feel like I want to fight you, so that‘s what I am going to do once I get home.

Get your vote off Roden and case me instead at least we‘ll have some action.

lol wat kinda post is this


Vivex, what do you think about DarthPunks tone this game? I feel like its hesistant and feels like scum being cautious. What do you think though?

484

The part about his reaction to SN.

I might just be ride or die Dann because he dodged the Luca question back in early game.

His case on Ninja was impressive but big flashy posts can be scum indicative as well.

Consistent activity is more town indicative imo. Even if it‘s not all high quality research/posts.

[Vivax]

superfluousninja it feels like you are way more verbose here than you were in your other completed games on site a few years ago

is there a reason for that specifically

Same reason some people kept hippos as pets I wager

[Vivax]

Or even Luca, once he got off the hook he just vanished.

Vanished?

I was sleeping and then had to work, and do other things like pick my kid up from school. Did you also

'vanish'

after being scumread early doors? I also never felt like I was '

on the hook

' in the first place with one player scumreading me.

This is a good rebuttal and also another instance of OoO being too hyperbole about events when it suits him.

That'd be like me saying that once Luca got Dannfloor on the hook he just vanished.
There's a few ways one can go about pointing out something like that and one could just simply state that he went mia or didn't answer a question.

Mafia depends a lot on having a valid voice in the thread so they need to frame things that look bad for their targets in an exaggerated manner. It also betrays a lack of calmness on OoOs side.

This game would be a lot easier for me if we had more consensus on OoO.

On the other hand Dannflor just displayed that same calmness I expect from townies when I asked him to fite me so I've already changed my mind. Might go for Ninja instead, lots of nervousness there. Kinda tries hard to play it cool imo.

UNVOTE:

[Vivax]

To be clear, my current pool would be Oats/Ninja/OoO but Ninja is more on a whim right now.
That said I appreciate that Naerys thinks similarly.

[Vivax]

OOO are you interested in this game or like not really

I'm mostly trying to establish how people play and what to expect of them.
I am in no hurry, we have more than 5 irl day left.

I don't give a shit if you think i am interested or not.

Why tho

[Vivax]

To be clear, my current pool would be Oats/Ninja/OoO but Ninja is more on a whim right now.
That said I appreciate that Naerys thinks similarly.

Surely something has to be pinging you that you are the only one who has these reads other than a lurker who doesn’t play right

You've been all over OoO for your last bunch of posts.
Surely something has to be pinging me that it apparently bothers you that we have a scumread in common and yet you still seem to complain about it? It's not you I'm voting now, is it?

[Vivax]

To be clear, my current pool would be Oats/Ninja/OoO but Ninja is more on a whim right now.
That said I appreciate that Naerys thinks similarly.

I guess if I’m wrong on a town read in these three I think OoO is the most likely to be wrong?

I feel increasingly solid about Ninja as town

Why ? Because of the amount of work she's putting in?
Mafia doesn't want to win?

[Vivax]

It's gonna be Roden or Vivax today most likely.

DP i find it very shitty you refuse to consider Vivax mafia just because some stupid townies lynched him last game.

You seem agitated

VOTE: OoO

Talk to me about Oats?

[Vivax]

To be clear, my current pool would be Oats/Ninja/OoO but Ninja is more on a whim right now.
That said I appreciate that Naerys thinks similarly.

Surely something has to be pinging you that you are the only one who has these reads other than a lurker who doesn’t play right

You've been all over OoO for your last bunch of posts.
Surely something has to be pinging me that it apparently bothers you that we have a scumread in common and yet you still seem to complain about it? It's not you I'm voting now, is it?

Ooo is scummy but he’s not my top 3 scummy.

I mean like where’s the curiosity that naerys is the only one other than you that’s scumreading me?

Maybe but Ninja is your top 4 scummy last I checked.

So your top priority in this thread state when we have one to TWO scumreads in common is to come to me and lowkey complain that you're among them? Is that townie?

Why should I take into account that you only have two people SRing you? If anything that makes you more likely mafia. Ninja hated you for the reading comprehension thing but she doesn't want to touch you with an 8 foot pole.

[Vivax]

It's like you're mad of being in a list with people you're trying hard to distance yourself from

[Vivax]

It's gonna be Roden or Vivax today most likely.

DP i find it very shitty you refuse to consider Vivax mafia just because some stupid townies lynched him last game.

You seem agitated

VOTE: OoO

Talk to me about Oats?

Oats is town, what else?

Not much, you can go back to doing nothing if you want while I try to eliminate you.

[Vivax]

I don't even know what your case on me is, other than that i am playing the game as i do as town

lamist

[Vivax]

I'm curious to see if Dunn will do anything under pressure.
For that I'm willing to vote him if needed but I think he could have done more already as mafia.

Between Dann/Ninja/DP I think there's one mafia exactly. I'll go with Ninja because I think she writes a lot of but doesn't manage to direct her focus properly to where she wants the game to be. Someone with such massive motivation should also have a clear goal to pursue but I feel like her content is generated to look good and generate smoke.

Otherwise the interactions between these three I find highly unlikely to be between scummates.

[Vivax]

Yeeting Roden and yeeting Dunn feel about the same to me, not really sure what the afk rules are here though

They're very lenient. You can even do a sitout. They call it VLA. Sometimes when the cannibal tribe from the Balkans found a new victim to feast on human flesh, conveniently compressed into tasty cevapcici.

[Vivax]

I'm not deviating from my scumreads fyi.
Can't make me. If you want you can yeet someone. I see no point in writing more right now until I am proven wrong. Everything else feels like wasted energy.

OoO is still basing his read on RVS at page 42 and Oats complains that I'm voting my scumread and not Roden and framed it as if that's a safe vote when it's just what I should be doing. I'm not going to fold to peer pressure here.

It's Oats, Ninja and OoO

[Vivax]

I'm not deviating from my scumreads fyi.
Can't make me. If you want you can yeet someone. I see no point in writing more right now until I am proven wrong. Everything else feels like wasted energy.

OoO is still basing his read on RVS at page 42 and Oats complains that I'm voting my scumread and not Roden and framed it as if that's a safe vote when it's just what I should be doing. I'm not going to fold to peer pressure here.

It's Oats, Ninja and OoO

you should be wasting your vote on someone that isnt gonna get yeeted today? thats your idea of optimal townplay?

lol this post is hilarious.
"OoO is still basing his read on RVS and Im still basing my read on Oats' reaction to Gobs RVS post but Im right and OoO is wrong"

You‘re right at least I should vote with Naerys thanks for the reminder.

VOTE: Oatsmaster

If you guys flip Roden and he turns out scum I‘ll re-evaluate.

Dunn was L-1 so that‘s already good info for later when we have his alignment.

[Vivax]

I feel like a number of people (and people pretty familiar with Vivax?) have said various things along the lines of Vivax seeming different this game or that he seems scummy or that his reads don't make sense - and I'm wondering why no one actually seems to want to vote him

He's been yeeted as town on day 1 a few times in recent games and I think people are reluctant to do it again.

If you really think I'm mafia you can yeet me again. I just think it's odd someone wouldn't update the tells they use for me when being proven wrong several times. It's like some want to keep me chained to my meta from years ago and I get yeeted if I don't comply with how they think I should play this game.

[Vivax]

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

[Vivax]

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

If I went by this metric which is 'avoids confrontation' I'd end up at a pool of Luca/Dunn/Hu Tao/Naerys judging by the presence of interactions alone / playing it safe.

It's just not the metric I decided to apply in this game.

[Vivax]

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

okay so i read this and think about how you went "let's fight Dann"

and then immediately backed off

I think you are more concerned with appearing dominant/superior in the thread rather than solving it.
That bugs me. And I am erratic like that as times.

[Vivax]

I mean I think in general scum tend to be more static and less fluid in their reads, that's the common trend in my opinion. I think making a big case on someone then immediately backing off is like, not the intuitive scum move vs. tunneling someone

uhh basically, I'm trying very hard as town to improve my read accuracy and that means not just sticking to the first scum read if I get good evidence to the contrary

That's fair but you have to occasionally draw a line in the sand and make your reads appear static. Otherwise you might as well not have any at all.

You'd get max reaction out of scum if you included a few of them in your guesses, but you also have to keep those guesses alive for a while to keep them reacting. I don't see why I can't rest my feet on my current tv table of guesses for a while without being accused of being too static.

[Vivax]

I guess it's more that your attitude seems to be that you've decided to have these reads almost out of spite, rather than it being something you really believe in and want to show everyone else

maybe that's a misread but when you use phrases like "can't make me" it feels like the point is to be stubborn and static, not to actually solve the game

You are probably familiar with the ash experiment. I need an increased inner conviction to internally counter that most of you don't share my reads.

[Vivax]

I'll have to hedge on DP being town because he is usually very good at wrestling thread control and being the dominant voice, and I couldn't see him doing that yet.

There could be a bunch of town reasons for that like his dates, Bday etc. but I hope that it will eventually show. I'm not used to him looking so comfortable with not having a large degree of control. In my last few games where he was town he was far from having a laissez-faire attitude.

[Vivax]

Im gonna say that unless Ninja is portraying a character that isnt real in which case I think shed be playing more mafia, shes town.
I dont think it makes much sense to say the things shes said if she were mafia. especially the stuff regarding the game getting too personal.

Yeah she's probably town. She seems very self-aware of herself but when she makes posts she makes mistakes, like very obvious mistakes that contradict with what she has said before.
For instance, she puts Dunnstral in scum column in her list post, then posts reasons why he is mafia and says he is null.

I find it very unlike that someone who seems so self-aware (even if you read her as scum this is true so it would apply also if she's town) gives people ammunition like this to attack her. As mafia i would say with 90% certainty she would be very careful and definitely more likely to keep her story straight.

This read reeks a bit of TMI. It's convenient for OoO to not have to push Ninja when he can go after me or Roden. I had similar thoughts on gob but if I compare gob with ninja, one has a idgaf attitude and the other is more intent on keeping up a good image.

[Vivax]

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

When I look at this post I become uncomfortable. It is unusually confident and the type of post I'd make as mafia since it's very sentiment based.

Dann, this didn't bother you but my three guesses did? How so.

What if I floated a Dann/Luca/x scenario?

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

My case on Order is void at atp, I didn't like their early interactions with Luca and Vivax but 451 turned my opinion around. I vibe with the mentality "I only post what I feel I need to" and tonally I feel that their posting has gotten a lot better.

UNVOTE:

I also had some reservations about Dann, at one point it looked like he may have been trying to pocket me with posts like 332 and when he was hard defending me while writing his case against Ninja. I think he ultimately is town though for later backing up a bit and concluding that he might've been too hasty, I think if he were scum he would just stick to town reading me and leaving it at that.

Luca I think is spewed town for being unable to discern that I was mimicking Oats' play and behavior when interacting with him and then not knowing that me calling them scum was a joke. They've overall been fairly townie and strike me as someone who's got a decent grasp on the game.

Ninja at first seemed similar to Luca, but the more I interacted with her and then saw some of her later posts, the more I think she's just playing with an agenda to elim people rather than scum hunt. Her insistence on arguing that I'm wrong about my own thoughts and intentions reads more as gaslighting rather than someone who's actually try to solve my alignment. 499 doubles down on this and is very tonally manipulative.

VOTE: Ninja

I really don't get this vote, when Ninja put forth a lot of insightful analysis in 499 that has gone unrecognised by Roden, who is zoning in primarily on things that directly involve him. I also don't see the gaslighting/manipulation, so perhaps you can point that out for me (unless you already have, as I'm still slowly catching-up).

I also am a little confused as to why not realising you were mimicking oats/not being serious when calling me scum spews me as town?

When going through his ISO I'm mostly looking for his reasons for being so sure Roden is scum and while backreading this shows up.
Yet he prefers to talk about me or other controversial matters or what makes people town instead of corroborating why exactly he is so sure Roden is mafia.

So why does Luca think Roden is mafia?
Not going to lie the spew as town part is really odd.

[Vivax]

Vivax, are YOU around in ~3hrs?

I suppose I as in capital I am likely to be around in 3 hrs.

[Vivax]

i farted on the dancefloor

[Vivax]

viewtopic.php?p=13486823#p13486823

The French still hate me for this

[Vivax]

In general I associate sustained activity over long periods of time as much harder for mafia than town, so that will impact my reads.

I'd be curious if people on this site agree with that?

Depends, they post more on a need to basis. When threatened by votes that can change.

I agree in principle though.

Exceptions exist. Wouldn‘t work on HF and a few other experienced players.

[Vivax]

I will start then.
Grack.

There are things that bother me a lot in his game. First of all it's quite hard to do catch up like that with keeping your story straight. Especially as mafia.
There is the post where Luca claims he thinks the interaction with Oats and Roden is S/S. Grack agrees with that, because it looks bizarre.
But after all the opinion actually is that Oats is town and Roden is not.
Then he suspects me and you (Vivax).

Then there is like sudden change in everything. Suddenly Roden doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Vivax doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Luca looks like mafia.
Notice that I am the only person ever in this game before Vivax just while ago to suspect Luca at any level. He doesn't have anything to say about his read on me.

Also he doesn't have anything to say about my post here:

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

As knowing me, Vivax, Oats and DP, regardless of if Grack thinks i am correct, incorrect or whatever here, this should be imo the most interesting post in the game to him, especially since he apparently suspects me. Alarm bells are ringing as he just comments absolutely nothing about it.

I think he's town though. I liked how he picked out posts to discern my alignment, I think it was genuine understanding.
Everyone at some point has content that doesn't seem to add up. A D1 townie is more prone to changing opinion often.

I think I'd have preferred if we did Roden. I took a bit of a leap of faith in TRing him initially, but I still believe Oats is kinda scummy and I'm wondering if I didn't side between them in what was a SVS interaction.

From the timing SVS would make sense because if mafia doesn't post early they're going to be more self conscious when entering the thread later. It's like they built up a debt they have to repay so they may resort to more oomph.

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

In this post again I find it odd that Oats is someone Luca isn't that confident about. If Oats and Roden fought it out so early and Roden is his confident scumread, I believe he should be more opinionated on Oats as well and offer some kind of interpretation to the arguments between them.

I'm mainly just fucking with Oats for being unnecessarily unhelpful and rude

I do genuinely think he's scum for his faux outrage though, and his attempts to discredit me aren't helping

This is not very townie.

Then vote Oats

I'd rather vote you, as I don't believe the way you're portraying your view of the game to be real. It's feels as if you're overcompensating.

Ok, found the second scum

Over the top omgus?
Maybe it's as simple as Roden, Luca, Oats with everyone in bus mode.

[Vivax]

If we voted Luca now, would you vote with us or not?

VOTE: LucaBlight

If so, just because he criticized the quoted post?

[Vivax]

I‘ve been devil‘s advocate for you, don‘t you think ?

That earned me a lot of criticism, but in the long run it also told me that nobody would have done the same for you. Just cost me the extra effort, but I wasn‘t pretending, I actually believed it. To find the devil means to play his game first.

Except maybe Naerys, she might have done something for you, who resorted to calling Oats mafia without having a firm stance on you. A chainsaw vote.

Let‘s try Luca/Naerys/Roden ? See if anything changes ?

[Vivax]

That earned me a lot of criticism, but in the long run it also told me that nobody would have done the same for you. Just cost me the extra effort, but I wasn‘t pretending, I actually believed it. To find the devil means to play his game first.

Did someone do this? Did they also scumread me because i also thought Roden was town and i have definitely not accused you of that read.

I didn't realize/missed you had a townread or nonscumread on Roden tbh.

Maybe it wasn't explicit but I'd quote this for instance:

I feel like a number of people (and people pretty familiar with Vivax?) have said various things along the lines of Vivax seeming different this game or that he seems scummy or that his reads don't make sense - and I'm wondering why no one actually seems to want to vote him

VOTE: Dannflor

You could say that about more people than just me.
I feel like I want to fight you, so that‘s what I am going to do once I get home.

Get your vote off Roden and case me instead at least we‘ll have some action.

no, i don't think i will

tbh i kinda think you and roden are partnered anyway

In Roden!scum! world, could mean Dann instead of Naerys. Then add Luca and Roden to the mix.
If Roden is town, what does that make Dann? Just more sure on Roden at the time, so NAI for him to react like that. But AI if Roden is mafia imo.

@ Roden

You thought Luca was scum when he doubted your post. Do you think that since that post, he has looked townier or scummier?
Because I'm still wondering why you're not cooperating with me and OoO in this instance. If you're town, it should come easy to you to vote someone you suspected earlier especially when it's not going to be you instead. Stop avoiding this please.

Maybe you don't like to be strongarmed/controlled but even then you should have an equally strong conviction read to replace the option.

[Vivax]

Bruh I'm pretty good for playing as a semi-homeless property owner in a country that would be better off being run by the mafia.

[Vivax]

UNVOTE: Luca

He’s going to be fine if you keep your vote.
L-3 requires three scum hammering in quick succession and so on so it‘s a strong research factor.

But we have started to work together as agreed even over former differences, and I don‘t know why Roden is hesitant even when we two have to be his only allies in his world.

That‘s what we lack. The voting bloc.

For D1 I‘d accept in my voting bloc without necessarily townreading them: OoO, Ninja, Dann, DP, Grack, Oats

Maybe Luca but he‘s the callisto atm. Roden just opposed the chance.

I‘d rather not accept Naerys, Dunn, Hu Tao because of the lukewarm approach. They still prefer to observe over engaging imo and the contributione are a bit sparse.

Even if we have mafia in the bloc it‘s beneficial for the leverage.

[Vivax]

VOTE: oatsmaster
oh and this is scum btw

Future me, does Naerys ever actually do anything?

Take issue with it and gather votes then.
Pretend to be in the voting bloc. You don‘t necessarily have to be sure she‘s mafia to gather votes and force posting.

Or Dunn for that matter. Dunn is firmly in null territory, though he irked my gut for no reason. He doesn‘t attempt to play in the mud. Voting nulls would be what we need to complete the D1 picture.

[Vivax]

Fwiw I forgot that I‘d accept gob in the bloc.
I‘m just kinda treating him as non-entity so I almost forgot. Cute posting but can‘t take it seriously.

[Vivax]

The hard part of mafia isn‘t even to find the scum, it‘s convincing the correctly townread that they have to vote together.

[Vivax]

The hard part of mafia isn‘t even to find the scum, it‘s convincing the correctly townread that they have to vote together.

But you can’t do either

I can sheep whoever wants to do it if I agree with them.
While I sound confident I have gone through a lot of ego death. That's why I place my hopes into DP.

Now I'm sure OoO is rayn so it can be him even.

[Vivax]

VOTE: oatsmaster
oh and this is scum btw

Future me, does Naerys ever actually do anything?

Take issue with it and gather votes then.
Pretend to be in the voting bloc. You don‘t necessarily have to be sure she‘s mafia to gather votes and force posting.

Or Dunn for that matter. Dunn is firmly in null territory, though he irked my gut for no reason. He doesn‘t attempt to play in the mud. Voting nulls would be what we need to complete the D1 picture.

Most issue i take with Dunn is that he seems to be more willing to comment on what other people mean than what he himself thinks....

Naerys i don't remember anything about anymore. For some reason i thought she is not likely mafia at some point, but honestly i have forgotten why.

I think he doesn't care to be a part of the solution but I don't know if it's for out of game reasons that drive him to be unhelpful or if he*s mafia.

Considering he w´got almost yeeted and didn't play more I think he's town tbh. Just that the mafia were kinda apathetic or fearful to hammer him. Still don't like him and would suggest a vig on him.

[Vivax]

Now I'm sure OoO is rayn so it can be him even.

wow it took absurd amount of time tbh ^^

Nobody else would hand me that way of saying 'let's go over there and attempt to work this out without fighting'.
You do know that works on me. I like fighting but I also like conciliation.

[Vivax]

But Vivax you have to realise Oats is town, and vice versa...
We're not gonna beat the dude who is mafia between Grack / DP, or even both otherwise.

Theyre both too reasonable to be lynched if were not here to see through it.

I have a history of scumreading Oats on the regular. He's a marv disciple so no surprise there, he attempts to bully into submission and sometimes they even sound similar in wording.

Some ego death would be required. But if you think you're so good at reading him I'm willing to put aside my own approach on how to handle him.

For information purposes I'd be fine with a vote buildup on Dunn/Naerys/Luca. Which is what we're doing, but we also need cooperation.

[Vivax]

Can you tell me with confidence you dont think there is no mafia in Grack and DP? (not that i am wanting to lynch them D1)

I am reasonably confident Grack is town. As mafia it‘d have been more convenient for him to add to the pool of players suspecting me.

He went for an approach that made him harder for hin to vote me if the opportunity arised.
My own alignment is my most trustworthy piece of information, and I just felt that he gets me.

DP is another matter. Having me D1d several games in a row would at best make him heartless as town and at worst mafia, so standing up for me was NAI.

I already know he’s not heartless from his EoD on TL’s last game when he last-minute-discerned my alignment correctly. But he will yeet you if you don’t meet effort expectations.

For me he’s not a D1 lim anyway because I know he can just solve it later if he’s town.

All of this to say that I’m not going to vote him on D1 no matter what. Strong players are self-resolving no matter their alignment,

[Vivax]

i wanna kill DP

Now that’s a reason to lim someone because they intimidate you.

Felt it from across the globe once, when I gave him reason to be upset with me. Maybe I‘m just nuts but I felt it.

The force. The juice.

Now, why would you rather get rid of the prospect of having that on your side instead of befriending him if he‘s capable of that ?

[Vivax]

It's also come to my attention that the people who know DP don't really seem to have good reasons to town read him

or it's more just like "he'll resolve" or "he could be scum but we don't want to D1 him" and thinking that people who knew him better than me had good reasons to town bin him was a large part of the reason I backed off in the first place

You underestimate him. He‘s Lord Beerus

[Vivax]

This Dann vs DP thing has good odds of just being TvT for the same reason I wanted to have a quarrel with Dann earlier.

[Vivax]

This Dann vs DP thing has good odds of just being TvT for the same reason I wanted to have a quarrel with Dann earlier.

What was that reason?

Being antagonistic because someone saw their status challenged.

Dann is supposed to be something like a personal champion of the site I think.

Maybe the fact DP could outshine him in the long term wants him to shut DP down.
It‘s kinda townie, but won‘t be helpful. Every duck measuring contest on TL ended up being tvt.

[Vivax]

Dannflor do you hold bias in your read on SuperfluousNinja?

I think I saw bias. I think you might actually be scumreading her, cased her and gave town exactly one shot at limming her before you decided to give her some leeway.

Mind you, I don‘t want this to be a cheating accusation, at most an accusation of being good hearted.

[Vivax]

Dannflor do you hold bias in your read on SuperfluousNinja?

I think I saw bias. I think you might actually be scumreading her, cased her and gave town exactly one shot at limming her before you decided to give her some leeway.

Mind you, I don‘t want this to be a cheating accusation, at most an accusation of being good hearted.

I don't know what this means. I have lingering suspicions because I think her posting style triggers a lot of the scum tells I use but ultimately I think she's town and feel pretty strongly about that. I'm not lying to be nice.

I‘ve seen that happen in a few games. Most of the time, the entire game may play to comfort a particular player. I think it‘s nice to beat a ruleset with compassion. It‘s what prevents us from becoming selfish killing machines.

I don‘t know if DP is scum, but I know that he can help me win if he isn‘t. I respect him being busy. I may even assume he prefers to watch how less renowned players approach the game so he prefers to do less.

[Vivax]

I caught up

I didn't see much of a case on Luca, is it that their posts feel safe?

Pretty much. Being reasonable and having thread adjacent reads but having no skin in the game by challenging anything.

He‘s chamaleontic

[Vivax]

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

Echo

[Vivax]

I say we put Luca at L-3 and see if anyone has a change of heart because he could use a bit of spotlight.

Keen on hearing from Dann/DP why their thunderdome should be prioritized over figuring him out.

@ Roden

It is a consistent issue. I vocally townread him early like much of the game which should incentivize him to attempt to gain thread control which he didn’t do.

He broadcoasts his opinions uncaring if they get taken into account.

[Vivax]

Oats is probably town but a Vig shot there would be delectable

Palatable . Then we make the cevapcici.
But not really, he is redeemable.

[Vivax]

VOTE: luca

I think we can move Hu Tao safely into town as well.

The chiming in is rare and rather sparse in words but consistent. Plus I liked the similar thoughts which earlier were in defense of Luca.

This vote in particular helps a lot to further the game into effective action after Roden declined to vote with me and OoO or to formulate a proper evaluation of Luca who he said he only unseriously called mafia in an earlier post.

Roden would probably a better vig target than Oats at this point because he declined the offer to participate in cooperation between me and OoO after we decided to just at least pretend to trust each other. An important step in any reconciliaton process.

I don‘t know if Roden is mafia but I can say that if he isn‘t, he isn‘t intent to help his wincon by putting his (is it pride?) aside to help town form a properly threatening consensus the mafia have to respect contrary to just individual reads.

[Vivax]

Roden she said you used language that makes it seem like you have a rock-solid opinion.

Right. Why does town think scum has a "rock-solid opinion"? Scum just lies.

You are not really getting this. She is saying that you are indicating you have a strong opinion with your language, and that is part of her argument. She is not reading into your state of mind.

Is that alignment indicative in any way for Ninja or Roden or why are you keeping it this brief ?

One could think you are moderating this game instead of playing it.

In fact your behaviour suggests you don‘t mind being yeeted.

[Vivax]

Isnt it funny mafia is shitting their pants after we formed a two man town circle?

That‘s the reason I dislike people who can‘t abandon a grudge which is a sign of maturity and not taking oneself too seriously.

For every grudge there‘s a situation that deserves present action for better reasons.

Had a few instances of abandoning grudges and then being proven that the other side could never change though.

[Vivax]

Had a few instances of abandoning grudges and then being proven that the other side could never change though.

Im sorry to hear that.

If anyone cares about hearing two sides of the story it wouldn‘t happen.
As it is though, initiative bonus exists…

At least my GF understands me having gone through similar things.
We‘d rather trust authentic scumbags over fake perfect people since then. They didn‘t discover their flaws or hide them well.

Offtopic

[Vivax]

This Dann vs DP thing has good odds of just being TvT for the same reason I wanted to have a quarrel with Dann earlier.

What was that reason?

Being antagonistic because someone saw their status challenged.

Dann is supposed to be something like a personal champion of the site I think.

Maybe the fact DP could outshine him in the long term wants him to shut DP down.
It‘s kinda townie, but won‘t be helpful. Every duck measuring contest on TL ended up being tvt.

I don't think Dann has that much ego to do that.

He should have. I like his writing and find his presence pleasant.

Why do you care so little about steering the game ?

[Vivax]

I've never seen Dann have an ego at all

I misjudged him then.
Low ego people don‘t fare well as scum though and I‘ve heard he‘s good at it.

If it‘s fake high ego we would probably get along well, being used to wearing larvas and all.

[Vivax]

okay that's two other people beside DP who said my case on DP is bad

I will sleep on it and reconsider

as a side note I don't really vibe with the Luca case overall, I feel like it largely comes down to him not being as present and being more calm than the average player here

Your feeling doesn‘t match the arguments brought up though.

Which would be that he townreads a lot of people compared to having a scumread that happens to be consensus.

But he is unbothered by the consensus scumread not gaining traction and he prefers to expand on his townreads.

[Vivax]

I have to say, Vivax

When i was reading the thread at work, your post #1110 almost made me throw my tools and shit and i was ready to murder you on spot, but then you made #1112. Then i thought "sheeet maybe it's town!Vivax after all, why not do this instead".

It really secured me when you asked Roden to vote for Luca. I had absolutely no idea what you were doing but i knew there was something there, that's my ultimate Vivax!tell.

It‘s a game with murder drones flavour. That shit actually exists, I‘ve made more people want to kill me on the spot than just you. Without intending to make them want that, mostly.

I like being on ‚the radar‘ irl. Preferrably in company.

[Vivax]

Dann, OoO and Dunn are probably all town. I'm unsure on vivax. Their townread on me for the Luca vote I'm unsure how to take it.

Vivax is very fucking town.

Seems like you just defend your town reads, am I right? Who do you Town read more Dunn or Vivax

Vivax.
Why would i not defend my townreads? Is there something scummy in doing so?

No and optimally you‘d want to do that when you TR the counterwagon to your wagon.

I think one should talk more about one‘s scumreads in general but be able to explain one‘s townreads even if it‘s just feels.

[Vivax]

The main thing I'm bothered about by Luca is that he hasn't really pushed anything himself and doesn't have any strong scum reads outside of the consensus Roden

into...

okay that's two other people beside DP who said my case on DP is bad

I will sleep on it and reconsider

as a side note I don't really vibe with the Luca case overall, I feel like it largely comes down to him not being as present and being more calm than the average player here

into, lets vote for Naerys.

Guy is mafia. Clearly.

IM not even being flippant we should yeet him.

Who would you go for if he flipped town ?

[Vivax]

The main thing I'm bothered about by Luca is that he hasn't really pushed anything himself and doesn't have any strong scum reads outside of the consensus Roden

into...

okay that's two other people beside DP who said my case on DP is bad

I will sleep on it and reconsider

as a side note I don't really vibe with the Luca case overall, I feel like it largely comes down to him not being as present and being more calm than the average player here

into, lets vote for Naerys.

Guy is mafia. Clearly.

Possible town explanation is that he also actively counters the majority’s thinking, maybe unconsciously.

Otherwise it‘s like he described the current concerns about Luca in en earlier post and then decided to defend him instead while dismissing said former arguments.

I though Luca to be townie earlier on for his calm demeanor as well but that changed when I looked at how he isolated Roden according to thread sentiment and TR a lot of players.

The complacency about not having formed a clear TR on Dunn, Hu and Naerys sticks out as opportunistic. It‘s like the post communicated ‚hey it‘s okay I think everyone suspecting Roden can be town. Let‘s do it‘

Given the overall contributions I‘d prefer to prioritize a Luca lim first, but I am open to Dann in case the majority requires it (which is to say I‘d hammer if you want to do that first).

[Vivax]

Ultimately I still probably just wanna go Roden gun to head right now

Yeah that‘s what Luca‘s listpost implied as well.
If Roden flipped scum it‘d give you both a lot of breathing room.

Coincidentally he refused to be strongarmed into voting Luca when he got an opportunity to do so.

Maybe he‘s the fall guy ?

[Vivax]

Dann is very very likely to be mafia.

So do you think it's luca/dann/???

Roden probably being thrown. Dann specifically said he started to like my posts when I began considering Roden scum. Then he decided to scumread DP out of nowhere.

But Roden is the weakest link.

We had a signature around that said that town is as strong as their weakest player and mafia as strong as their strongest.

On the other hand it‘s a bit odd that Dann would miss a question from his teammate early. It‘s something mafia would pay more attention to.

[Vivax]

I understand this is an uphill battle

I understand none of his friends are going to want to kill DP D1

Maybe just to witness it for once and ride shiny and chrome to Valhalla I would.

Not when I‘m playing to win though. He makes sense and pours the gravy.

[Vivax]

We flip whoever we think is the best, were still like half way through D1 only lol ^^

That host interaction when Dann said everyone on the page was town though.

Nono

I guess I‘m having fun though, at least I don‘t have the cia recording me through my 4k monitor.

[Vivax]

I dont think it means anything outside TL, they tend to do stupid things like that.

Offtopic:

Yeah like post p*rn of people you know, or spy on you through electronic devices that you didn‘t even know could record you.

At least if you fuck around you will find out, *points at self*
They do have a twisted sense of humour and lots of powder.

Doesn‘t surprise me that it seems unavoidable to have a future point that spells big badaboom.

For legal reasons this is a joke.

I don‘t mind the prospect of Orwellian total transparency, as long as it‘s official and not used selectively and secretly.

But come on, a stern talk should precede every gun, metaphorical or not.

[Vivax]

Vivax, i mean, other forums dont take it too seriously, i have seen similar things in many places. It doesnt mean anything towards Dann's affiliation.
Like i have been in a game where a host replaced someone with a guy i fucking night killed 2 hours ago. It's just unreal lol ^_^

Where we play, lots may get replaced.
I didn‘t realize we were so ambitious and often even abusive on TL until I started playing elsewhere.

Step on a lego ****** as an example.
Save for Corazon/BH/Tunkeg (oh boy who was he) . We always were forgiving though. No time for grudges. Apologies anyway, I‘m a bit inebriated in my new ‚home‘, which I misspelled when it‘s a hole

[Vivax]

I am just going to stop posting until I have caught up with the thread. I am really not used to not having a grasp on the game.

I think if you trust me and rayn your grasp is good enough.

We can add Oats to the mix if he stops being so rude, so we can add Ninja to the mix if she wants to be around.

I just struggle a bit when her intent is to be so artsy, but I understand the motivation in the current climate. It is a good-oriented one.

[Vivax]

Vivax, i mean, other forums dont take it too seriously, i have seen similar things in many places. It doesnt mean anything towards Dann's affiliation.
Like i have been in a game where a host replaced someone with a guy i fucking night killed 2 hours ago. It's just unreal lol ^_^

That’s actually insanely funny ngl

I have been in a game where batman fucking warped in and out to oogi it.

[Vivax]

Fwiw I forgot that I‘d accept gob in the bloc.
I‘m just kinda treating him as non-entity so I almost forgot. Cute posting but can‘t take it seriously.

His posts just come across as so innocent. It's like he puts no thought at all into how they will be perceived.

Or in other words, he‘s true to his avatar. He‘s just kinda hopping around spreading his own trademark of little chaos hoping that someone would find it scummy.

[Vivax]

I'll have to hedge on DP being town because he is usually very good at wrestling thread control and being the dominant voice, and I couldn't see him doing that yet.

There could be a bunch of town reasons for that like his dates, Bday etc. but I hope that it will eventually show. I'm not used to him looking so comfortable with not having a large degree of control. In my last few games where he was town he was far from having a laissez-faire attitude.

I don't agree that I don't have control when I am in the thread. Maybe I don't now, since I was afk for like a huge period but I def was leading when I was active.

Dunno, when I asked JacobStrangelove about that thread back on TL I saw a side of you that I didn‘t even know existed.

You are still just moderately invested, but I‘m taking note of your intent when it comes
to Dannflor.

Why prioritize him over Luca though? Makes me think it‘s personal, and I don‘t sympathize with personal right now.

[Vivax]

Anyway, I'll stop with the woe is me crap and try to reset myself in the morning and put some actual firm reads together in a reads list because obviously my usual style is not helping anyone, including myself.

This is a great degree of insight and humbleness.
Might help to resolve if Dann is a town white knight or actually mafia here.

[Vivax]

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I'm a little suspicious of this, because I don't see why it would take until this point in time for Vivax to have this consideration. For me, this is the first thing I think about, which is why i was suspicious of outoforder and Roden early doors for their sudden burst of energy, as it's reminiscent of my past scum games.

Noted that you are interceding in Roden vs me, against me, which makes sense on one side because Roden refuses to vote for you, doesn‘t on the other because he used to be your only scumread.

But why not intercede in the Dann vs DP dichotomy?

[Vivax]

First of all, nice post by Dp. Probably correct on most accounts.

Spoiler:

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I'm a little suspicious of this, because I don't see why it would take until this point in time for Vivax to have this consideration. For me, this is the first thing I think about, which is why i was suspicious of outoforder and Roden early doors for their sudden burst of energy, as it's reminiscent of my past scum games.

Noted that you are interceding in Roden vs me, against me, which makes sense on one side because Roden refuses to vote for you, doesn‘t on the other because he used to be your only scumread.

But why not intercede in the Dann vs DP dichotomy?

I haven't even caught-up to Roden's catch-up yet.

Why should I intercede on Dann vs Darth Punk? I don't get your point.

The point is that it‘s likely going to be Dann vs DP/Roden vs me

Surely you can take a stance on the second option as well vs just taking a stance on me when I am vying for your elimination.

If not, Roden would be you next best shot.
Sudden burst of energy involves OoO in your opinion, not me ?

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

My case on Order is void at atp, I didn't like their early interactions with Luca and Vivax but 451 turned my opinion around. I vibe with the mentality "I only post what I feel I need to" and tonally I feel that their posting has gotten a lot better.

UNVOTE:

I also had some reservations about Dann, at one point it looked like he may have been trying to pocket me with posts like 332 and when he was hard defending me while writing his case against Ninja. I think he ultimately is town though for later backing up a bit and concluding that he might've been too hasty, I think if he were scum he would just stick to town reading me and leaving it at that.

Luca I think is spewed town for being unable to discern that I was mimicking Oats' play and behavior when interacting with him and then not knowing that me calling them scum was a joke. They've overall been fairly townie and strike me as someone who's got a decent grasp on the game.

Ninja at first seemed similar to Luca, but the more I interacted with her and then saw some of her later posts, the more I think she's just playing with an agenda to elim people rather than scum hunt. Her insistence on arguing that I'm wrong about my own thoughts and intentions reads more as gaslighting rather than someone who's actually try to solve my alignment. 499 doubles down on this and is very tonally manipulative.

VOTE: Ninja

I really don't get this vote, when Ninja put forth a lot of insightful analysis in 499 that has gone unrecognised by Roden, who is zoning in primarily on things that directly involve him. I also don't see the gaslighting/manipulation, so perhaps you can point that out for me (unless you already have, as I'm still slowly catching-up).

I also am a little confused as to why not realising you were mimicking oats/not being serious when calling me scum spews me as town?

When going through his ISO I'm mostly looking for his reasons for being so sure Roden is scum and while backreading this shows up.
Yet he prefers to talk about me or other controversial matters or what makes people town instead of corroborating why exactly he is so sure Roden is mafia.

So why does Luca think Roden is mafia?
Not going to lie the spew as town part is really odd.

I'm really having a hard time actually understanding the points you're making.

I've never been 'so sure' that Roden is scum, and at this point in time I was still waiting to hear his more general take on the game.

Your second sentence just makes little sense to me. Why should I not talk about controversial events going on in the game? I commented on Roden's limited catch-up, and I can't just keep on posting about Roden until they've actually caught up and presented their view on the game, can I? And if I did that, you would probably be questioning why I'm not commenting on other things going on in the game. It's like you're creating a situation where you can present me as being scummy either way.

You had one scumread so far, Roden. I would vote Dannflor if the opportunity presented itself.
Hence I have no need to put you into a damned if I do damned if I don‘t position.

What prevents you from acknowledging that my suspicion on you comes from a townie point of view ?

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

My case on Order is void at atp, I didn't like their early interactions with Luca and Vivax but 451 turned my opinion around. I vibe with the mentality "I only post what I feel I need to" and tonally I feel that their posting has gotten a lot better.

UNVOTE:

I also had some reservations about Dann, at one point it looked like he may have been trying to pocket me with posts like 332 and when he was hard defending me while writing his case against Ninja. I think he ultimately is town though for later backing up a bit and concluding that he might've been too hasty, I think if he were scum he would just stick to town reading me and leaving it at that.

Luca I think is spewed town for being unable to discern that I was mimicking Oats' play and behavior when interacting with him and then not knowing that me calling them scum was a joke. They've overall been fairly townie and strike me as someone who's got a decent grasp on the game.

Ninja at first seemed similar to Luca, but the more I interacted with her and then saw some of her later posts, the more I think she's just playing with an agenda to elim people rather than scum hunt. Her insistence on arguing that I'm wrong about my own thoughts and intentions reads more as gaslighting rather than someone who's actually try to solve my alignment. 499 doubles down on this and is very tonally manipulative.

VOTE: Ninja

I really don't get this vote, when Ninja put forth a lot of insightful analysis in 499 that has gone unrecognised by Roden, who is zoning in primarily on things that directly involve him. I also don't see the gaslighting/manipulation, so perhaps you can point that out for me (unless you already have, as I'm still slowly catching-up).

I also am a little confused as to why not realising you were mimicking oats/not being serious when calling me scum spews me as town?

When going through his ISO I'm mostly looking for his reasons for being so sure Roden is scum and while backreading this shows up.
Yet he prefers to talk about me or other controversial matters or what makes people town instead of corroborating why exactly he is so sure Roden is mafia.

So why does Luca think Roden is mafia?
Not going to lie the spew as town part is really odd.

I'm really having a hard time actually understanding the points you're making.

I've never been 'so sure' that Roden is scum, and at this point in time I was still waiting to hear his more general take on the game.

Your second sentence just makes little sense to me. Why should I not talk about controversial events going on in the game? I commented on Roden's limited catch-up, and I can't just keep on posting about Roden until they've actually caught up and presented their view on the game, can I? And if I did that, you would probably be questioning why I'm not commenting on other things going on in the game. It's like you're creating a situation where you can present me as being scummy either way.

You had one scumread so far, Roden. I would vote Dannflor if the opportunity presented itself.
Hence I have no need to put you into a damned if I do damned if I don‘t position.

What prevents you from acknowledging that my suspicion on you comes from a townie point of view ?

I have already acknowledged that your style of play could make sense as coming from Town.

I just feel like the timing is strange - if I am playing just like you play when you're mafia, then why didn't this occur to you before? It seems unnatural and potentially a calculated move to suddenly introduce this view now.

I would fall for how I played as mafia, initially, not in the long term.

Now, what I‘m trying to do is direct your attention to Dann vs DP because omgusing me is just a bit too convenient from where you‘re standing .

If you are town it shouldn‘t be an issue to‘ acknowledge that they can‘t be scum together.
All I want to know is what they are to you.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

I just don't see Dann's play as coming from scum at all, no matter how good he might be at playing scum. Just about every move he has made since his case on ninja has reflected my own reactions upon reading through. If he actually is scum then fair play, it's a masterful performance and he deserves it.

Outoforder seemed very town in his sorting of me earlier and in his general play. There has been the slightly underhanded shading that has given me pause for thought, but I am still pretty confident on him being town.

Regarding 'safe' posts, I actually feel a lot of your posts (including the one I'm quoting) are very much in the 'safe' category. I would much prefer to play in a more dynamic way, which I feel I'm normally capable of, but as I've said I'm finding it difficult in this current game state.

So you set up a rationale for a strong Dancefloor townread.

What‘s missing here is your rationale for your DP-at-all read.

What do you think about their exchanges ? Surely they can‘t be partnered ?

If so, what are we looking at: TvT or SvT?

[Vivax]

If one were truly town irl, he‘d be mafia aligned knowing the town can‘t do shit.

Not that it matters for the game. But it matters for the homeless. Mafia is first of all: Friendship and support

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

I just don't see Dann's play as coming from scum at all, no matter how good he might be at playing scum. Just about every move he has made since his case on ninja has reflected my own reactions upon reading through. If he actually is scum then fair play, it's a masterful performance and he deserves it.

Outoforder seemed very town in his sorting of me earlier and in his general play. There has been the slightly underhanded shading that has given me pause for thought, but I am still pretty confident on him being town.

Regarding 'safe' posts, I actually feel a lot of your posts (including the one I'm quoting) are very much in the 'safe' category. I would much prefer to play in a more dynamic way, which I feel I'm normally capable of, but as I've said I'm finding it difficult in this current game state.

So you set up a rationale for a strong Dancefloor townread.

What‘s missing here is your rationale for your DP-at-all read.

What do you think about their exchanges ? Surely they can‘t be partnered ?

If so, what are we looking at: TvT or SvT?

It should be obvious from what I've said that I don't think they're partnered.

Right now I would say TvT. I'm still catching-up, and will review this again once I'm finished.

Fair enough, but a Roden scumread won‘t be enough.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

I just don't see Dann's play as coming from scum at all, no matter how good he might be at playing scum. Just about every move he has made since his case on ninja has reflected my own reactions upon reading through. If he actually is scum then fair play, it's a masterful performance and he deserves it.

Outoforder seemed very town in his sorting of me earlier and in his general play. There has been the slightly underhanded shading that has given me pause for thought, but I am still pretty confident on him being town.

Regarding 'safe' posts, I actually feel a lot of your posts (including the one I'm quoting) are very much in the 'safe' category. I would much prefer to play in a more dynamic way, which I feel I'm normally capable of, but as I've said I'm finding it difficult in this current game state.

So you set up a rationale for a strong Dancefloor townread.

What‘s missing here is your rationale for your DP-at-all read.

What do you think about their exchanges ? Surely they can‘t be partnered ?

If so, what are we looking at: TvT or SvT?

It should be obvious from what I've said that I don't think they're partnered.

Right now I would say TvT. I'm still catching-up, and will review this again once I'm finished.

Fair enough, but a Roden scumread won‘t be enough.

Enough for what, exactly?

This kind of post is like you're trying to make me look bad without actually attempting to discern my alignment. If you actually were trying to discern my alignment you'd want my catch-up to be organic, and then parse it based on what I've said, rather than trying to influence what I might say with such comments.

I‘m trying to obtain information about you.
I can‘t do that if you just rest on me or Roden being mafia.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

I just don't see Dann's play as coming from scum at all, no matter how good he might be at playing scum. Just about every move he has made since his case on ninja has reflected my own reactions upon reading through. If he actually is scum then fair play, it's a masterful performance and he deserves it.

Outoforder seemed very town in his sorting of me earlier and in his general play. There has been the slightly underhanded shading that has given me pause for thought, but I am still pretty confident on him being town.

Regarding 'safe' posts, I actually feel a lot of your posts (including the one I'm quoting) are very much in the 'safe' category. I would much prefer to play in a more dynamic way, which I feel I'm normally capable of, but as I've said I'm finding it difficult in this current game state.

So you set up a rationale for a strong Dancefloor townread.

What‘s missing here is your rationale for your DP-at-all read.

What do you think about their exchanges ? Surely they can‘t be partnered ?

If so, what are we looking at: TvT or SvT?

It should be obvious from what I've said that I don't think they're partnered.

Right now I would say TvT. I'm still catching-up, and will review this again once I'm finished.

I don‘t think it‘s too unlikely we‘re getting caught up in a duck measuring contest.

DP even acknowledged the possibility but then decided to push Dannflor further anyway.
Maybe it is personal and we aren‘t allowed to know about it.

In which case, it may be TvT that needs to be resolved to further the game anyway.

[Vivax]

I‘ve been devil‘s advocate for you, don‘t you think ?

That earned me a lot of criticism, but in the long run it also told me that nobody would have done the same for you. Just cost me the extra effort, but I wasn‘t pretending, I actually believed it. To find the devil means to play his game first.

Except maybe Naerys, she might have done something for you, who resorted to calling Oats mafia without having a firm stance on you. A chainsaw vote.

Let‘s try Luca/Naerys/Roden ? See if anything changes ?

Again, I'm having a hard-time interpreting this.

Are you saying that by defending Roden, you determined that no-one else was willing to defend Roden?

It was more of a happenstance rather than me pretending to, but yes .

[Vivax]

Hard to say, it would depend on how much mafia has the cojones to support my opinion as town.

It’s coinflippy, but I’d say not much.
I think he could be scum particularly after me and OoO tried to give him an opportunity to find a better lim than himself (on top of it you, when he was your only scumread) which he didn’t really do much about.

[Vivax]

Maybe we should just lim Dunnstral. Or Roden aka deeznuts.

UNVOTE:

Luca definitely played more than when not under pressure.
I‘d prefer some pushes that go beyond omgus territory.

[Vivax]

Fuckin bizarro world over here

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

[Vivax]

It seems like Roden and Ninja are the most bothered on this page to see people laying down their stubbornness to work with each other.

It‘s like they think they can solo the mafia.

[Vivax]

im the mafia and my teammates are Luca and Vivax

I disagree about me. Careful with the rules about scumclaiming.

[Vivax]

A bit more activity and this game could almost become like Imperial mafia when it built up 100 pages within two days.

This is how you catch the mafia. You give them lots of things they don‘t need or want to read until they commit sudoku

[Vivax]

Also, just because this was on my mind, IS anyone concerned that suddenly OOO and Vivax teamed up like that, like OOO didn't even try to hide the fact that he showed up and wanted to go all True Detective, all Woody Harrelson / Matthew McConaughey with another player and try to solve the game together? With Vivax as one of my scum reads, of course that's going to bother me, but really it just bothers me that anyone, on day one, would do a thing like "okay fellow townie who I have declared town, let us solve the game together!" Like how has anyone built that level of trust with anyone in this game at this point?

It worries me even more that OOO admitted that he once fake-claimed mason just to save Oats once. That tells me that OOO is willing to pull some crazy fucking gambits in this game. So I wonder if the gambit right there was for him to team up with his scum buddy Vivax and make themselves look super townie by going all True Detective mode on everyone together. In that world it's then likely a scum team of Roden / OOO / Vivax and I'm totally wrong about Hu Tao.

That is a more outlandish theory though and I need to see if I can see an angle of OOO as scum to take this seriously. But if I really am wrong about Hu Tao then obviously I'm gonna need to figure something else out.

As for Dann, I really don't know what to think at the moment and I need to dive into him some more also.

Please do have reads and post them.

No lim today thanks: Hu Tao, Grack Fields, Oats, OoO, DP, SuperfluousNinja
Maybe lim: Luca, Dunnstral, Gob (too cocky right there but he gives off jester vibes), Roden, Dannflor

Ahh I don't know about Naerys any more but I guess I want to fry other fish.

Sometimes you just have to narrow the scope down like that and accept to treat uncertainty with certainty for the sake of progress.

[Vivax]

1.12

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral / Vivax

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

didn't count oatsmaster's unvote at it appears to be accidental, if you accidentally make a vote / unvote you didn't want to please correct it manually for clarity purposes

Flavor

Spoiler:

sorry I SWEAR that flavor is coming

Decisions decisions. I like the DP wagon the least, no matter Dann's alignment, so I'm going to

VOTE: Roden

I'll have to review the Luca/DP battle later. What bothers me the most about that VC is that Roden doesn't vote Luca who's the first on his wagon. Why does he never assume that he's mafia that wants to kill him and even declines the opportunity to join the wagon on him to save himself which would be pro-town?

I'm assuming he's trying to reverse psychology town to trick it into believing he isn't playing for survival.

[Vivax]

Okay you can think me and OoO are teamed. I think it‘s an absurd belief but alright.

The wagon structure right now is smexy for later info. Pitting Roden against Luca was unsuccessful but would have been a townie reaction for him to act upon. That ship has sailed.

[Vivax]

I could just as easily say that Darth's case literally amounts to "Dann changed his read on me and is hard-pushing me as scum instead of asking me questions".

Not really sure whats wrong with a case like that. Does it not make sense to you?

Changing your read on a player and pushing your scumread does =/= scum.

so how is darth punk scum then?

You keep asking me things that I've already answered. Are you doing this on purpose?

Oats is the angry chihuahua that hungrily clutches your scummy buttcheek and doesn't let go while you keep screaming for help.
Probably, yes.

[Vivax]

Okay you can think me and OoO are teamed. I think it‘s an absurd belief but alright.

Okay, so am I right, then? Have I gone too far down the rabbit hole?

Has anyone else? (Gonna be kinda hard to answer this one with a "no" if the previous one is a "yes")

I think so, throw your trust at someone and try to work with them, it‘s what I did. One can always reevaluate but reevaluation as a permanent state leads to nowhere.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Now I‘m curious about gob saying that about Luca, and this makes Oats happy too.

I‘m fine with this vote for reasons already stated earlier.

[Vivax]

Don't frame this lim as if it's personal. I don't think anyone wants to lim Luca because they dislike him, but because they think he's mafia.

He can be a great guy and all but I am just not convinced that he prefers to solve over positioning himself favourably according to thread sentiment.

He could be pushing Roden or DP right now but he is visibly more bothered by having his alignment questioned and that's where his attention prefers to be.

I don't know what it is with you and rabbit holes. Let the poor animals sleep.
What do you want me to tell you?

[Vivax]

Don't frame this lim as if it's personal. I don't think anyone wants to lim Luca because they dislike him, but because they think he's mafia.

He can be a great guy and all but I am just not convinced that he prefers to solve over positioning himself favourably according to thread sentiment.

He could be pushing Roden or DP right now but he is visibly more bothered by having his alignment questioned and that's where his attention prefers to be.

How am I more bothered about having my alignment questioned?

And how can I push Roden, who is absent? I would argue I have pushed Darth a fair bit, which would have been pretty counter-productive if I were actually scum and him town. Remember, Darth didn't scumread me before I got involved and countered his points against Dann, and based on Dann's very case it was obvious Darth would scumread me based on this intervention. Please consider that for a moment.

If it‘s you, Dann and Roden on the table, what makes them better eliminations ?

I‘m not asking for a huge effort just for your immediate thoughts on the matter.

Why should we lim them over you in as few words as possible.

[Vivax]

I don‘t mind voting Roden over Luca.

And I‘m not going to continue going down that line of discussion, ninja. You somehow brought up Luca being nice or something which lowkey is supposed to guilt trip and mafia can be nice too anyways.

I don‘t know why you are trying to be so confrontational. Looks a bit like you‘re doing it for its own sake.

Roden is the most likely outcome at the end of the day.

[Vivax]

I am just going to stop posting until I have caught up with the thread. I am really not used to not having a grasp on the game.

I think if you trust me and rayn your grasp is good enough.

We can add Oats to the mix if he stops being so rude, so we can add Ninja to the mix if she wants to be around.

I just struggle a bit when her intent is to be so artsy, but I understand the motivation in the current climate. It is a good-oriented one.

To be clear, I trust rayn more than you right now. Because I don't think rayn would do this whole 2 man town circle schtick as maf but I KNOW you would pocket rayn as maf.

And I haven't read the part of the thread where apparently rayn thinks you are confirmed town yet, so lets see if I agree

Can we call people who they are in this game, please? I don't know who Rayn is and neither would anyone else who hasn't played with them.

He‘s the son in law of el chapo guzman and the current European supreme godfather residing in his Finland villa. After the saunas he likes to take a bath in his pool filled with italian raw ham and coke.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Punk

I'll buy into Dann's case.

Summarize danns case

Summarize deez nuts

He's given up. lol

Maybe he should renane himself to hoden

[Vivax]

It‘s like we‘re firing Roden for being on sick leave. Capitalists reading this game must be salivating or worse.

[Vivax]

It‘s like we‘re firing Roden for being on sick leave. Capitalists reading this game must be salivating or worse.

Yeah okay cool that's really great NOW HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT HU TAO

ISO suggests possible scum. Very safe posting and little changes in opinion overall but I‘m assuming it could be a personality thing.

I am aware I had her as town but I might change my mind.
What‘s your impression ?

[Vivax]

Assert dominance, disagree withe everyone

[Vivax]

I fully intend to just sheep DP later.

[Vivax]

I'm okay with voting Luca or maybe naerys. I think I'm leaning no on roden right now

it's kind of weird that this is the only mention of roden in hu tao's entire ISO

Good observation.

[Vivax]

Dunnstral

Very defensive and lacking ISO overall.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Vivax]

It‘s also like nobody ever wants to bring him up.
Could Ninja + Dunn ve a thing ? The way she picked out Hu Tap felt so random..

[Vivax]

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt. Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either. He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

The first paragraph made me laugh out loud. Do you really believe that ?

[Vivax]

Dunn was at L-1 apparently.
Pretty close to being an easy misyeet if town. Why not though?

[Vivax]

Ninja town is more probable after all, that crazy drive to find an even only remotely plausible explanation for my play coming from mafia would be hard to replicate.

She thinks Dunn is town then? Noted for later

[Vivax]

It‘s just so far off from the truth, it might as well have been the same stuff I wrote about who rayn is.

But you can believe what you want ig

[Vivax]

It‘s just so far off from the truth, it might as well have been the same stuff I wrote about who rayn is.

But you can believe what you want ig

But why would that make you laugh? Like where's the humor here?

It‘s funny to me because it‘s so far fetched and wrong.
I just said I could see Hu as mafia, why am I supposed to panic about her, just because I prefer to push Dunnstral instead ?

I think he has done far less than her that is useful for town.

[Vivax]

Dunnstral

Very defensive and lacking ISO overall.

VOTE: Dunnstral

It‘s also like nobody ever wants to bring him up.
Could Ninja + Dunn ve a thing ? The way she picked out Hu Tap felt so random..

Okay so objectively, forgetting about the fact that I know that I'm town.

Why would you steer the direction of the conversation away from me to dunnstral here? Seems like more people were open to thinking me as scum and it was more of a deflection to someone else. I'm getting the feeling I was earlier about you that you could be trying to set me up as being voted and you looking towny for being right about me

I reconsidered your alignment because ninja pressed me into it.
I‘m sure I‘d still not lim you on this day.

See my earlier post where I listed who I consider yeetable. I think I prefer staying true to that.

[Vivax]

It‘s just so far off from the truth, it might as well have been the same stuff I wrote about who rayn is.

But you can believe what you want ig

But why would that make you laugh? Like where's the humor here?

It‘s funny to me because it‘s so far fetched and wrong.
I just said I could see Hu as mafia, why am I supposed to panic about her, just because I prefer to push Dunnstral instead ?

I think he has done far less than her that is useful for town.

Why is it so far-fetched that you are LAUGHING OUT LOUD at it?

I've read plenty of things here that I don't agree with, but I've never felt like LAUGHING because of it.

It‘s just a random theory of yours that ignores I had Dunnstral on the radar for a while, while I had a townlean on Hu.

I think she might have a role if she‘s town though. I am prone to red/blue blindness.

[Vivax]

They both think that because I entertained that Hu Tao might be mafia, me unexpectedly going for Dunn instead within the short timeframe made me scum.

It‘s like all they care about is to coerce me into predictable behaviour.

Didn‘t expect Hu to react akin to ninja though. Ninja I think has more fun at manipulation attempts rather than a productive thread environment.

[Vivax]

Lol I‘m not trying to bully you into submission.
I‘d rather just avoid communication with you at all at this point.

[Vivax]

They both think that because I entertained that Hu Tao might be mafia, me unexpectedly going for Dunn instead within the short timeframe made me scum.

It‘s like all they care about is to coerce me into predictable behaviour.

Didn‘t expect Hu to react akin to ninja though. Ninja I think has more fun at manipulation attempts rather than a productive thread environment.

You're missing the point. Or doing it on purpose. It's just the fact that the attention could have stayed on me but you directed it elsewhere

And if you‘re town that bothers you because ?
You can have the attention. But I‘d rather talk with you about why we should lim Dunnstral, and not you. He has more scum equity in my book.

[Vivax]

They both think that because I entertained that Hu Tao might be mafia, me unexpectedly going for Dunn instead within the short timeframe made me scum.

To be clear, I have much better reasons than that to think you are scum. That is not my only reason. It was jarring to me and I said so, and it seems like it has REALLY bothered you that I brought it up, whereas you could have just explained why you did what you did and moved on. Instead you're trying to make me feel like an idiot for talking about it and doing the whole "hey everyone, look how dumb she is!" thing. It rubs me the wrong way.

If I‘m your scumread, it‘s not me you have to convince that I‘m mafia. Since Dunn is my scumread, I‘d prefer to talk about Dunn rather than wasting time reading theories that I know are wrong.

I don‘t have to imply you are dumb to believe that the particular reason you called me scum for was very contrived, which made me laugh.

I have no intention of taking the bait here.

[Vivax]

OK but why even say it to me if you did?

I like to laugh ?
Usually I also like it to make others laugh so it‘s hard for me to get behind why you found it offensive.

Everyone made some ridiculously wrong posts at some point.

[Vivax]

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt. Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either. He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

We actually agree for once

What parts do you agree with here?

Um. Read my post before that. It pretty much explains?

Do you agree that vivax was panicking to the plethora of evidence of your guilt? I did read the post before but I don’t see how that applies when ninja is talking like you are guilty and then you agree with the post.

UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: Hu tao

loool smackdown

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Vivax]

Kinda mad I didn‘t realize first that she was agreeing with ninja on something making me scum that had herself being scum as a prerequisite condition.

[Vivax]

Kinda mad I didn‘t realize first that she was agreeing with ninja on something making me scum that had herself being scum as a prerequisite condition.

why on earth does this make hu tao scum??? like actually

Because she would have to agree with the notion from Ninja that I was panicking and tried to distract away from her by voting Dunnstral.

Which isn‘t a though that should ever make sense to her if she was town.

Get it ?

[Vivax]

Sample conversation

Grack : ‚I think Dannflor is scum and Darthpunk has done something to deflect from him.‘

Dannflor: ‚Yes I agree with Grack, let‘s vote Darthpunk‘

[Vivax]

I can't even deal with this site tbh. it's like we are playing a game with two different sets of rules at the same time.

Have you noticed that the house players interact less with each other compared to with us outsiders ?

I don‘t see them cooperating, forming blocs etc.

As soon as I did that with OoO it was seen as something suspicious.
It‘s like entering a village full of odd people who guard terrible secrets… And maybe just play to withhold vital information.

Anyway, Hu‘s argument is based on a flip association that she could influence. One: She could flip Dunn if she wanted. Two: It would be more convenient for me as mafia to just stay parked on Roden and not evaluate her at all.

[Vivax]

We are going to uncover the secret cannibal tribe of mafiascum

[Vivax]

I only understand about half of vivax's posts

You need the mafia gene mutation to do that.
Had to break into Jurassic park to procure it.

[Vivax]

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt. Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either. He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

We actually agree for once

You agreed with…

*drumming*

*ba-dumm-tss*

A post calling you mafia.

[Vivax]

It seems like things are more black and white over there than they are over here

Have you ever killed someone who posted like that and they flipped town?

You need internal rules to solve games. There‘s certain mistakes you can‘t just overlook, this is one of them.

You can be reasonably sure that Hu Tao was caught in a lie while she saw an opportunity to motivate ninja to push me more and please her at the same time.

[Vivax]

I missed playing with Oats.
We can do Roden with the Hu Tao-Gate in mind for next phase.

Our host lost her top.

VOTE: Roden

[Vivax]

Yeet: Roden, Dunn, Hu Tao.
Yeet tier #2: Dannflor, Naerys, gob

[Vivax]

I missed playing with Oats.
We can do Roden with the Hu Tao-Gate in mind for next phase.

Our host lost her top.

VOTE: Roden

Setting up miselims. This is literally so obvious

Am I not voting mafia? What do you think?

[Vivax]

Yeet: Roden, Dunn, Hu Tao.
Yeet tier #2: Dannflor, Naerys, gob

kinda funny how ur read of me progressed through time

It doesn’t improve with you doing nothing and then complaining when others do something