Star Wars Mafia (Game Over)

[d3x]

Vote:TwoHeadedCyclops

...because I'm a man of my word.

[d3x]

d3x <3 AGM

[d3x]

@k7- Do you not like/see the worth in the RVS or simply don't want to Vote in it?

[d3x]

bv and k-7 need to stop lurking/posting crap and contribute.

Why leave out d3x, Scott Brosius and DragonsofSummer?

I've been kind of site-wide MIA for a little while and I'm slowly making my way back. I made it a point to catch up in another game yesterday and was planning on doing the same here today. Expect something later. Again, appologies.

[d3x]

Ok, so I'm caught up and I have a strong feeling that people are gonna howl at me for not coming back with more, but meh. I'm also prepared to hear a bunch of 'Pot Vs Kettle' calls.

Currently on my radar are the following {for the following reasons}:

Scott Brosius

- For stretching the RVS while he was here and not giving anything else since.

Cry

- For stretching the RVS and then the whole anti-WS push for some bs inconsistency {all while holding a RVS Vote for DP}. I especially don't like the whole 'I misunderstood, lol' vibe I got from p144.

THC

- So many reasons. The fights with WS and Kast mostly. I feel that these are both really reaching.

wolf

- Following along and mostly posting fluff, imo. No real content through 10 posts across 7 pages. {Given once the content starts, I'm inclined to like it. This is my weakest Scum-leaning feeling}

I felt the need to say that these are leaning townie for me:

FC

- Pushing to exit the RVS early followed by decent posting, imo. I'm not feeling the recent push on him at all.

Kast

- Solid reads and arguments. Can we please only nickname one person 3PO, though? I love it, but with 3 of them running around, it gets confusing.

Other random musings:

WS

- I don't know why there is/was a wagon there.

In summation, I'm happy with my Vote on 2Headed3PO. I'd like to make it official, though.

UnVote/Vote:2HeadedCyclops

[d3x]

Oh yeah! I forgot to say this...

CMAR: Needs to stop talking about movies, music and tv and start scum hunting nano

I have with my last few posts. Also, there is usually reason to almost everything I post,

almost

everything

I can't wait to hear the reasons that you posted this little gem, along with your supposed reasons for stretching the RVS with off-topic filler.

If you're saying that the talk of fs's "movies, music, and tv" was one of those few times that there was no reason, why did you respond with the above? If that's not what you were saying, then what is the reason for said talk of "movies, music, and tv"?

*End Transmission*

[d3x]

I'm not saying that k7 is the pinnacle of the proTown Mafia playing experience, but can VRK, dan, and the 2Headed3PO give me a brief overview of what they think the wagon is all about? As far as I can tell, it's nothing more than a policy Lynch. Does that about sum it up?

I'd also like a rehash from those Voting the Wreck Star {ooba and bv}. What makes that wagon worth riding? Why should I join up?

[d3x]

Go go Gadget Double Post!!!

Mod

- Regarding Prods, does the response have to be in thread or does via PM suffice? If so, will you tell us if a Prod has been replied to via PM? And can we get a prod on Scott Brosius, plz?

@ooba-

bv and k-7 need to stop lurking/posting crap and contribute.

Why leave out d3x, Scott Brosius and DragonsofSummer?

What makes AGM special? As far as I can tell, he's the only lurker you left out in your redacted Lurker List. Unless you count...

PS, who IS in your hydra? I swear one of them has to be either MrSuave or kyle99.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

LOL.

...content, that is.

-------------------------

Also, for those playing along with our home game, add totallynotmafia to my UnHappy list.

[d3x]

And do you feel that your point has 'gotten across'?

[d3x]

Howdy, Reaper!

@2Head- I must have missed this at first, but it wasn't until WS quoted you here that I got a tad confused.

We didn't suspect Wreckstar until they started freaking and acting like we did.

If I'm reading you correctly, you didn't suspect WS until he started acting like you were acting? Are you saying that you think you were acting rather suspect and the heat you're feeling is justified? If not, what

are

you trying to say here?

[d3x]

@2Head- Care to answer my other question, plz?

[d3x]

I've skimmed over the thread.

UnVote

for now, until I can give it all a good solid read.

Hopefully I'll have more time tomorrow to post, but in the meantime I thought I'd throw something out there and see if it sticks.

If we're doubting Kast's alignment and/or ability, why don't we direct his shot? If he doesn't shoot who we want him to, we Lynch him {ie- antiTown motivations}. If he doesn't Shoot anyone, we Lynch him {ie- he lied}. If he successfully shoots the target picked out by us, we let him live and allow the Scum to deal with him tonight.

Thoughts?

[d3x]

FoS: DragonsofSummer

For saying he was going to catch up and post tonight (4 days ago), and never doing it.

Umm... you don't have a Vote on anyone, DoS doesn't have any Votes on him, you find scummy behavior, and you FoS him? Why not Vote?

[d3x]

I don't believe the claim.

Vote:hp [leaves]

Sorry I didn't get a chance to do much more of an in depth readthrough, but this needs to happen.

[d3x]

What changed between here...

Farside is town, I'm pretty positive, as I think it would be Jabba the Hutt to place this bounty, making farside town in my opinion.

...and here...?

Farside is town. I have that info.

The part that really doesn't sit well with me is that...

I have info that Farside is on the good side.

You started this page 'pretty positive' based on opinion and speculation but finished it with concrete information. What gives, Cry?

Frankly, I'm also not liking the speculation from Cry a whole lot. I seriously don't think we should allow this to dictate any decisions we make today. Jabba isn't even the only one who put out bounties in ep 4-6.

Think its stupid to classify anyone as townie just because they have a bounty on them. If its a faction thing, I can easily see scum putting a bounty on one of their own to make people think like this.

This. I feel that the bounty is Null at best.

[d3x]

Sorry, I forgot about Slicey's question. I Voted because the Claim was a load of crap. The Role didn't make any sense and felt thrown together in desperation, imo.

[d3x]

@Cry- And what about wolf's post made you change your mind?

Also- farside is still a she.

[d3x]

@Slicey-

I'm thinking CMAR town right now also.

Based on his partial RoleClaim or his play?

[d3x]

Vote:Scott

I can dig WS's Vote. I get {although don't completely like} AGM's Vote. Your Vote however, I'm not down with at all. You are Voting bv for being useless?

*ringring* Hi kettle, it's the pot. You're black. *click*

Do you believe Cry's Claim? Why/why not? What are your thoughts regarding his choice {and thought process} for investigation? What do you think of his unsolicated result on farside? How about his setup speculation? What about Slicey's question regarding your position on the wagon yesterday?

I don't think you or I or any of the Lurkers from yesterday are in any kind of position to call anyone 'useless'. Especially without backing it up.

[d3x]

AGM's defense of DP is noted.

@AGM- Do you feel the bv Wagon is stronger than the Scott Wagon? Why/not?

[d3x]

it seems pretty obvious that the scum faction would obviously be the Empire, in this game. But they don't place bounties on people's heads like smugglers would.

[nerd hat]Umm... Point of Order. ESB- Vader hires bounty hunters to find the Millenium Falcon.[/nerd hat]

Also, I thought I had said that setup speculation isn't going to take us anywhere. Do you disagree?

don't just assume the Empire are the baddies.

UnVote/Vote:Wreck Star

Holy dogshit, Batman. Scum slip. Moar Votes nao, plz.

[d3x]

I'm suspicous of you for claiming without any real pressure.

This. I'm not calling for a Claim just yet, but I don't like the way this went down. There was no reason to Claim anything at that time. I also don't like the response to pressure in p512.

It was defending DoS, not DP.

It was one of them Dragons. My opinion stands.

I don't get it.

Well, my Role PM says that I win when we defeat all the threats to the Rebel Alliance {paraphrased}. The only threat to the Rebel Alliance in eps 4-6 is the Empire. {preview edit- WS513 makes me feel a little better but IGMEOY, returning Vote now...

UnVote/Vote:Scott

}

Knowing for certain (or pretty close) whether there are two scum factions, or one scum faction + sk, can speak volumes as to how people consciously or unconsciously link themselves together.

Perhaps I should've clarified. speculation about Jabba the Hutt being the head of a Scum team, etc. is useless speculation that shouldn't be discussed. There is no verifiable way of knowing any of that. I also don't agree that you need to fully know the setup {ie- 2 Scum teams vs 1+SK}. I don't think it helps all that much. Concern yourself with ScumHunting and you'll find Scum. Anything else is fluff imo, and only serves to make it appear that you are contributing. I also disagree that we can know for sure {or pretty close}'. Who's to say that it wasn't a Vig that took out one of the NKs? I think it's dangerous to spend much {if any} time speculating on setup; especially this early in the game.

[d3x]

I don't see a scum modivation for making a claim that early. Do you?

It's not too far of a stretch to believe that with the bounty, CryScum identified you as Town, thus wanted to 'confirm' himself with a 1-shot investigation result. Claiming 1-shot will protect him from ever having to give incorrect reads later on. Another Scum motivation would be if the 2 of you were on the same team. You can know for sure your own alignment, but the rest of us can't.

Thinking this through, I'm starting to believe Cry's Claim, but I really don't like the way it went down. I don't think there was any reason to Claim at this juncture.

@Scott-

I feel like the others are just not posting (as opposed to actual lurking), while bv is attempting to play.

You know that you were one of 'the others' on that list, right?

[d3x]

No one was even voting me and I sure as hell wasn't worried about it.

And nowhere in my possible scenario did I say you were worried about the Bounty. I actually didn't have anything from your point of view, it was from Cry's, so I'm not sure how this factors into it.

if you have seen scum actually pair themselves in a game before please share links to said game.

I don't think I have, but that's not the point. It isn't that hard to see the situation play out and that's what you asked. If Cry is Newb enough to talk about the game outside of thread and Claim at the drop of a hat as a proTown 1-shot Cop, why wouldn't he make a weak gambit as Scum? I know, I know, WIFOM. The point stands and the logic holds.

This WIFOM from d3x is brought to you by the makers of cheese.

I don't see how your question could've been answered by anything but WIFOM. Fascinating. Also, Colby Jack ftw.

[d3x]

@farside- Got it.

@sog- It mostly had to do with me not paying attention to the OP had the Town's WinCon. As Scum, I recently got caught in a similar situation towards End Game.

[d3x]

I will be V/LA from April 23rd until May 2nd

Other comments coming soon {as work allows}.

[d3x]

Obviously work didn't allow me time enough to post. So I'll do it now...

1) I could say the same for if I am town (which I am). I wanted to 'confirm' Farside because of the bounty
2) If we were on the same team, never would I EVER do that. If one of us gets lynched, both of us go down not to mention that neither of us had any pressure on us at the time. This is just stupid.

Settle, bro. farside asked if there were Scum motivations behind Claiming early as you did. I saw some potential Scum motivations and then immediately went on to say that while possible, I believed you.

I didn't want you to reveal the Alliance JOAT thing yet, CMAR. I just wanted your rolename.

Assuming Cry didn't FullClaim, how would his revealing himself as Yoda have changed anything? How would you have guaged the truthiness of his Claim by this info?

The power I used last night was "Force Sensitive (Investigate)".

Does this work exactly like a Cop's Investigate power? I'd just like this to be absolutely clear.

He definitely at least had a fakeclaim of Yoda ready. I'll have to think about this one more.

Is there a specific reason you don't believe him?

@Scott587- Thank you Scum.

@RC- What's teh deal with the 'Note'? I'm not asking you to give the details, but why are you making vague Notes for us to read without any information in them?

I really don't like how d3x basically forces a claim out of CMAR with post 471.

What? It'd be a different story if Cry came out and SoftClaimed, but he didn't. He changed his story in a suspicious manner. He said his reaction to the situation is that she's probably Town aligned and then switched to saying she

is

Town aligned. This doesn't make sense. Of course I'm going to ask about incongruities I find, it's called ScumHunting. I didn't 'force' him to Claim anything.

This post is really terrible.

I'm glad you liked it.

d3x says he is fine with AGM voting to wagon, but not okay with scott's vote because scott was not very useful on day one? This reaks of an opportunity/distancing vote.

Nice misrep there! I said that I understand but don't really like AGM's Vote. I can understand a BW Vote for the sake of a BW Vote. A hypocritical Vote on the other hand is very scummy.

d3x misreps what wreckstar says to the extreme.

I've explained this. You don't like it, that's fine.

[d3x]

@Mod

- Can we get a prod on VRK? I know it hasn't been quite 5 days, but he hasn't posted D2 at all.

FoS:AGM

[d3x]

Step one.

Happy ScumDay d3x!

Thanks Starbuck!

@farside632-

I think d3x may need a better radar but somthing of note that so far everyone he had on his radar had some town role.

Interesting. There were 4 people on my radar, adn while I fully admit that I was wqrong on the 50% that flipped {and probably Cry as well}, what about Scott are you saying is Town, exactly? I'm obviously not seeing it.

not a fan of asking why he should join a wagon.

I'm not going to call this a misrep, but that's definitely not what I was saying. The subtext here is that I don't for a second buy their reasons for having so many Votes here. I couldn't find any satisfactory reasons for their Votes, so I was questioning the Wagon.

I don't believe for a second you are that much of a newb to ask these type of questions to CMAR

Then what exactly are you trying to suggest? He was flipflopping over the great expanse of 2 posts. He couldn't have investigated in that timeframe. If he was Claiming, than he needed to Claim. If he was Scum faking a result that was unneccessary, then it was the perfect time to catching floundering over it.

Why did you feel that it was thrown together in desperation and didn't make sense?

I probable said this, but I'm not sure where. Point to it plz???

Hey neighbor I'm from Reseda

Bam!!!

Almaster said he's really good as scum

If at any time you'd like to decide for yourself {meta}, all of my games are on my wiki.

@bv633- *facepalm* Are we thinking that given enough outted PRs Scum won't know who to shoot tonight?

@Cry636- *double facepalm* This is exactly what I was saying about you!!!

@WS- If you're innocent, why aren't you Voting bv?

So I Voted WS adn then thought about it erased it. It's T-2 RL days until our DayVig is back. I can't remember who said it, but my recommendation is that we wait for Kast, have him shoot WS, then Lynch bv if it's a lie. If it's legit, then we continue on with our D2.

[d3x]

Anger+Hatred. I tried to post yesterday right before I had to leave for work, but there were issues. I didn't have time to retype. I'm catching up now.

@farside673-

When you list 4 players and only 1 may be scum I would say your scum radar needs a tune up

The jury's still out on 2 of the 4. Just because I currently believe Cry, doesn't clear him. Also, I'm not saying that my Scum-dar is 100% on.

The final thing was in regards to what you said about hp{leaves]

Oh, yeah! I remember saying that now. It's because his Claim

did

feel thrown together and

didn't

make any sense. Lol! He was scrambling to find an excuse for why a DayVig {alignment undetermined} bounced off of him and his explanation didn't hold water. I know that there's nothing hard and fast that makes the Roles line up with the series, but I had and still have no reason to believe that they don't.

@WS674- For the same reason I Hammered hp, I'm not liking WS. The Claim doesn't make sense. I'm of the mind that we need to test this out by a DayVig from Kast. He should be back in a day or so.

@everything else- I think a lot of discussion about believing bv, not believing WS, and disliking Scott has come and gone. I agree with all of these things.

[d3x]

@Kast- Did an enabler find you?

Vote:Scott

I personally think that he should be Vigged, but if Kast didn't get a second shot, then a Lynch is in order.

[d3x]

You thought RC was scummy? Care to share why? I had the opposite read.

Can I ask why it matters? Do you disbelieve the Cop Claim?

[d3x]

I'd be down for sog or Scott, but I'm not really for a QuickLynch here.

Regarding the Cop thing, I don't really see a reason to question a Cop on why they chose a certain target unless the Cop's Claim/alignment is in question.

Lynch, I actually thought you were an alt considering there was a specific requirement of admittance into this game. Welcome to the site!

Regarding the Scum Group{s}, I find it interesting that both of the Scum that have thus far flipped are bounty hunters {although one is 3rd party and one is Scum}. I'm not willing to write off 2 Scum Groups, but I'm not down for more speculation. It only serves to distract the Town and we'll hopefully find out soon enough anyway.

[d3x]

I would also recommend Claiming, sog. You're at L-2 atm.

[d3x]

@RC-
1. Where did I say that Vader and the Emperor aren't in this game/aren't the bad guys? I believe I

specifically

argued against them not being here/not being Scum a while ago {see p518}.

2. Huh? I'm not getting what you're getting at. I'm refusing to waste time speculating thus I'm arguing against the Empire being Scum? I'm not following you at all.

[d3x]

Also include this in the above point 1.

[d3x]

Why would we have a flip without a faction if there was more then one scum group?

Dunno. I like playing 'out guess the Mod' almost as much as I like setup speculation {which is ultimately the same game}. I don't really see much worth in it. If you'd really like to debate the matter, I suggest you talk with those hell bent on believing there are 2 Scum Groups. I just said I'm not ruling out the possibility.

How do you feel about a Quick Lynch {I don't like it}? Do you think it's more beneficial to the Town than actual discussion {I do not, I believe it stifles conversation}? Do you think the bounty of sog is playing a role in the speed of this wagon {I definitely do and am worried about it}? Do you feel that it is having a positive or negative effect on the Wagon {negative, everyone is gunning for that shield}? What do you think of Scott's TF Vote {I don't like it, though I'm not a fan of TF's Slicey Vote either}?

Preview Edit:

@AGM- I don't see the benefits

to

speculate on setup. ScumHunting is ScumHunting whether you have 1, 2 or 5 Scum Groups. I believe looking for connections and interactions before concrete confirmation of multiple ScumGroups is ultimately less beneficial than ScumHunting. I also believe that prematurely, it is very distracting in a game like this. Too many people are only too eager to nerd out about what Groups could potentially be out there.

Once a second faction is flipped, looking into connections will be much more beneficial, imo. This of course does not include looking for connections to known Scum.

[d3x]

I'll take the L-1 Vote. I'm announcing my intent so there isn't a simulpost that f*s this up.

UnVote

[d3x]

Vote:semioldguy

[d3x]

I'm down for a Scott investigation. If he's not Scum {doubtful} then he's gonly going to serve to continue distracting the Town with their suspicions. Also, I decided to join the Wagon due to a number of reasons. I realized that cooler heads won't prevail in terms of more discussion {ie-slowing the Day a bit}. Also, I agree with the plan to give bv the Bounty abilities and the extra info about farside's RB helps a lot of doubt I had.

[d3x]

Note- I haven't read the thread {though I saw there was a Wagon on me}. I'm posting as I read, so some of this may have been asked/answered. Warning:

Huge

Catch-up Wall follows {I'm really sorry}...

@

Kast849

-

Nice job on Jabba's death.

Who exactly are you congratulating on Jabba's death? Your next sentence says that you believe the Empire Scum killed him. This is a bit weird to me.

@

Lynch851

- This is exactly why I was pushing to slow yesterday down. We got no information aside from the Lynch that we were going to get regardless. We had multiple players go without posting. This does not help the Town even if the Lynch is a good Lynch.

after a re-read with current information, I'm moving dana off my probable scum list.

Why? What changed your mind about him?

@

SB855

- RC's Scum list makes me laugh. WS {Scum}, sog {Imperial}, and SB {'Innocent'} coming from the Scum GodFather.

Point of order. I do not like TF858.

@

TF858

- Why didn't you like sog for Scum? If you liked the "Lynch vitcims" from D1&2, why weren't you anywhere near the Wagons? Note- I'm not asking why you didn't Hammer. I don't think you mentioned hp once and only mentioned Wreck Star in your very first post. Can you point us to where you 'suspected' either Lynchee?

We got lucky that SOG was actually scum, but if was town we would have mislynched

How is a misLynch {especially the first} that bad for Town? It's not the best case scenario, but we get valuable information on misLynches. Are you expecting this game to go through with no misLynches?

FoS:TF

{insert intent to upgrade this and Vote TF here once I confirm that there isn't a better case/he's not at L-1}

@

TF861

- When in the future? Have you yet in this game?

@

DP865

through

DP872

-

I have difficulty imagining scum to come up with such a suggestion as he did.

Is this 'too scummy to be Scum' or am I misreading you and missing something? Also are you planning on doing everyone in iso? If not, why did you pick those you picked? Regardless I'd like to know why you chose the order you chose to do your Isos.

@

Kthx874

- There's the case on me. Well, I can't say that you don't have a point, but I do say that your case could be stronger. First off, you left out my D1 Hammer on a 3rd party without making with the recap that I'd promised. You also didn't say anything about the mild defense then hard reversal on WS. Finally, you didn't go into my general Lurking. Aside from all of that, I'll now respond to your case after throwing out that I think you're probably Town {although you're stretching a bit on some of your points}. For those of you who don't know, Kthx and I have a history and he usually goes after me at least once in our games {here and especially off-site}.

Looks like 'hey, get a fake claim in there buddy. This bounty on you is screwing us'.

It should look like 'I don't want us to QuickLynch a potentially Town aligned PR considering he's been tracked performing a Night Action that he doesn't want to be outted'. Also of note is the fact that I said that the Bounty's are Null at best. I felt that it could've been a tool used by Scum to 'softConfirm' their own players. While highly unlikely, we still don't actually have confirmation that this didn't happen.

Taking what we know now (that there are indeed 2 scum groups) this looks like d3x trying to convince us that we should only worry about one.

Now this is a load of bull. Point to the place where I say there is only 1 ScumGroup. I clearly say that there may very well be more than 1 and I'm not ruling it out, I just think that setup speculation on multiple groups is distracting and less beneficial than actually ScumHunting.

Take note of him 'not liking the quick lynch'

I don't like QuickLynches. I seem to remembner winning a game as Scum that we just played in by getting something like 3 back-to-back QuickLynches. One {which I personally pushed} was even Confirmed Scum on my team.

trying to continue the day in hopes of getting Vader off the hook with 'more conversation'

I was not against a sog Lynch, I was against a QuickLynch {see p799}. Either way, I knew the risks when I asked to slow the Day down {if/when the Lynchee flipped Scum}.

worry over the bounty, and the big one 'everyone is gunning for the shield'. Really? The way I read it was everyone wanted our investigative role to have it

First, you're taking things out of context here. I posted that in p808, getting the shield to bv wasn't suggested until Kast816. Hindsight may be 20/20, but apparently, it can't count.

If everyone is gunning for the shield, why would you then put the L-1 down?

To ensure that bv got it. What am I missing here? Note the timestamps. I was online when bv was and I wanted to make sure he got it. The explanations had to wait until afterwards otherwise a simulpost L-1 would've f*ed it up, as I said.

If you don't think the bounty on sog was a good thing and think it was a mistake, then why do this?

I didn't say it was a bad thing or a mistake, I said it was hastening a Wagon that wasn't 100% sound. I still feel that this was a motivation.

If you thought conversation was going to be stifled due to this lynch happening fast, the why did you participate? How do your actions of getting on the band wagon halt the quick lynch?

Three reasons: 1. I felt that there was a fair chance sog was Scum 2. Hardly anyone was listening to me {Lynch805 actually agreed that we should take our time with yesterday} and the Wagon wasn't going to slow down 3. Securing the shield for bv.

Of course, in my experience you wouldn't know he's the Godfather unless he told you his role flat out OR he told you he's the emperor and you guessed as much.

If we were on the same side, I'd know he was the GodFather {assuming he is, which I currently am not}.

@

dana891

- Lmao

I think barring any other scum suspects that lynching a VI isn't a bad thing to do.

read- misLynches are good

However, I find that very townie people are joining the d3x wagon,

read- and I want to look more townie

so there may be some investigation results for them to base their votes on.

read-RoleFishing

Also, I already said that I do find him somewhat scummy, so I guess I'm ready to vote now.

read- so if/when he flips TownAligned, my ass is covered

And I find it ridiculous that Toon Fighter is kind of wagging his finger at me for non-contribution.

read- buss

FoS:danakillsu

{insert intent to upgrade this and Vote dan here once I confirm that there isn't a better case/he's not at L-1. I'm liking dan better than TF atm}

@

Kast892

- Well it's going to be a hard sell convincing people that I didn't read this before responding to the above posts {specifically Kthx's and dan's}. This is just one reason I don't like people providing defenses of others, but whatever.

@

Kast894

- /waiting for accusations of me being your GodFather in yet another Star Wars themed game...

@

Kast894

/

Lynch895

- There is an easeir way to figure this Role speculation out.

@

dan

- Why do you say that GMT is "the only man in the Empire who ever attempts to use torture"?

@

Lynch895

-

I'm not even sure if all this setup speculation is doing us much good

This. I stand behind my original premise that speculation is distracting and in most every case to be avoided. The only thing this helps with is if someone Claims Grand Moff Tarkin. And they'd be a moron to do it even without the speculation.

@

Kast896

-

I would assume at least 7 scum in a 22 man game (could include mafia and/or SKs). It does not appear that we have any serial killers.

I'm actually inclined to believe that we may have an SK and the Jabba Scum group couldn't NK {only place Bounties}. The 'swallowed' thing weirds me out though. This gives the potential that the Rancor or Sarlacc could be in the game {either would be JabbaScum and potentially only be allowed to NK after Jabba dies}. The lack of a VibroNK last Night could be attributed to Shield, Doc Save, WIFOM No Kill, or something completely different.

See, this is why I don't like setup speculation. It gets us no where.

And with a quick...

Preview edit...

I'm good with a

Vote:danakillsu

, but I'd be happy with TF or AGM swinging as well.

[d3x]

Why did we need to rush it?

Are you asking me? I didn't want to rush it. I Hammered for the reasons I laid out in the all-too-lengthy p897.

[d3x]

Would you like some fries with that blatant, cowardly OMGUS?

I'd love some!

Would you like a some fries with your blatant, cowardly BandWagon Vote?

[d3x]

Yeah, mostly Lurking is a Null tell across the board. Certain players have established meta as being Lurky-Scum, while some players have meta of participating more as Scum. Lurker Lynches are usually red herrings, imo. As my first Scum game, we were able to ride a few of them into a perfect win. It's easy to initiate a Lurker Lynch and there's usually no real push back from anyone, but sometimes they actually turn up Scum.

[d3x]

@TF- Do you have nothing to say about the Wagon you're currently riding? Any feedback {belief/disbelief} in regards to my defense? Any response to the multiple cases building against you? Any answers to the questions others are asking?

@dan-

it's not backed up very well

What's not backed up very well?

I really don't see any reason to vote for him because I know his town meta, and this is it.

I don't know about the others, but my suspicion of him has nothing to do with Lurking. Do you not find merit in my suspicions or did you just not read them? Also, your defense of TF has been noted.

[d3x]

@dan- Wait a minute. You're holding onto this idea that you found me 'somewhat scummy' and mentioned it previously. I looked and yes, you did mention it... in p881. The strange thing is, that's only the 2nd time you've mentioned me all game {the first time you said nothing about me being scummy}. 10 posts later, you then Voted in p891. Also in p881, you said that you weren't "really ready to vote yet". What changed between p881 and p891? Finally you said...

I find that very townie people are joining the d3x wagon, so there may be some investigation results for them to base their votes on

Aside from the potential RoleFishing here {bv has all of his investigations accounted for}, the Wagon preceding your Vote consisted of Kthx, bv, AGM, and TF. Barring bv {our all but confirmed Cop}, who on this list would you consider 'very townie'?

-preview edit-
I see that Kast just wrote a bunch of this as well. I'm at work and not in the mood to rewrite, so deal with it.

[d3x]

@Kthx944- I await with baited breathe.

@Blaze946- Any thoughts as to why?

[d3x]

@Kast- I can confirm that we know each other iRL {for the better part of 20 years} and have played a fair amount of Mafia games together here and eslewhere {though we've both been playing the game a ~year each}. I'm not sure what specifically you're looking for regarding our 'Mafia history'.

[d3x]

Also, all of my games are on my wiki for a better meta read, if that'd help you on my side.

[d3x]

@DP- Weren't you going to Iso a bunch of players starting with me? Is the fruition of said Iso...

Looking at d3x, I must say that the accusations in post 874 are pretty solid, and not defended well.

What specifically do you think I didn't defend well? I'd particularly like those on my Wagon {you and Blaze chief among them} to answer before Kthx comes back in with his d3x-case 2.0.

@All- Would you guys prefer I Claim now or with another Vote on me {currently L-2}?

[d3x]

@dan- Are you planning on answering my p919?

@DP- Are you planning on answering my p965?

@Blaze- So you are gut Voting between the 2 biggest Wagons with no real grasp on what's going ~1 1/2 weeks before deadline? What is your take on the game? Do you have anything insightful to add?

@allConsidering no one besides dan has answered my inquiry, I'll Claim now. I have nothing and do nothing. I'm an Ewok, specifically Wicket: Alliance 'Vanilla' Town.

@Unsolicited thoughts- I'm not liking the disappearing act that we've got with TF {hasn't posted since Wednesday}, AGM {last Sunday and prodded}, and Kthx {no

real

posts since last Saturday}. The deadline is starting to close in on us and I'm the 'strongest' Wagon because I've got a pack of Lurkers riding me. I still mostly think Kthx is Town, but I'm growing more and more doubtful as the days wear on.

[d3x]

/facepalm

[d3x]

I'll try to respond to everything tomorrow.

[d3x]

Ok, responding to ooba's full breakdown...

Three (or Four if scott is not palpatine) confirmed town on scumdar which had four people.

And? Let's assume that we didn't get investigations on both GFs {if there is a 2nd one} and SB really is Town. What does that mean? Are you telling me that you've never been completely wrong on a Scum List before?

the last part of the post gives me the vibe that if he’s scum – he is empire scum.

I'm not following you. Can you be a bit more specific on what I'm supposed to have done?

Still don’t get how this is a scumslip. Could you explin this please?

It had to do with WS not knowing the Town WinCon. I had just finished a game where a very similar instance got me caught as Scum. I didn't realize that it was posted for all to see in the OP.

Do not understand the switch back to scott.

Someone {I believe it was farside} pointed out that the WinCon was in the OP, thus I returned to my original suspect. I did however, keep suspicion on him b/c I didn't fully like it and thought it may have been a Slip of some kind.

d3x ~ Scott – Based on him saying “Thank you scum” but not following up with any vote or pressure

I was already Voting him. I don't get this point.

Fos’s AGM for what I percieve to be lurking. Why ignore TF who had not posted for an even greater duration. Links to either TF or AlGm

I don't really remember specifically what that was about. The prod request was for VRK though, not AGM.

Very strong d3x ~ SoG. Wants to lynch Scott over SoG. I find the fact that he does not mention SoG at all to be most suspicious.

Mmkay. I felt Scott was more suspicious than sog.

“I'd be down for sog or Scott, but I'm not really for a QuickLynch here.“. Just think its relevant because of a little theory I have about Day three.

Something you'd like to share with the rest of us Amazing Larry? {Pee-Wee quote, couldn't help myself}

1) Why the need to comment on Kast’s one line?. Further pointing to the fact that if d3x is scum, he is empire scum.

Which one liner? The 'nice job' one? I think it was a valid question. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever got a response.

2) DP ~ d3x. Comments on DP’s ISOs but asks him why he choose that particular order instead of the more pertinent point – Town on dana, scott, toon, FCG, dana. Null on kthx. Scummy on nobody?

He hadn't done the other 1/2 of the player list.

3) “It should look like 'I don't want us to QuickLynch a potentially Town aligned PR considering he's been tracked performing a Night Action that he doesn't want to be outted'. “ – Hmm SoG just said he did not track anyone – could also point to VI (at that point before the claim).

I'm not following. sog didn't Claim tracker. Why would he then say that he Tracked someone?

4) Mentions AGM at the end without any previous mention

AGM had been active Lurking this entire game. Aside from the fact that I have mentioned him before, I don't see how stating my suspicion on someone who hasn't been posting is relevant.

My scum read is based on links with Slicey and day three play

You're building a case against me based on connections of a player that hasn't flipped and isn't even under suspicion? Weird.

I think the fact that FS suspected Almaster to be scum and dana to be town makes me think that AlGm has more chances of being the last Jabba scum than dana.

I don't get this at all. farside wasn't an investigative Role. Given we know that her opinion wasn't based on Scum motivations, but that doesn't mean her suspicions are on target. Also, she had RC as Town.

---------------------

I don't know that I buy dan's Claim outright, but I think we can let bv investigate him tonight and Lynch TF or AGM in his place.

UnVote/Vote:ToonFighter

Right now, the TF case is stronger than the AGM case, imo.

[d3x]

Annoying count

AGM should be getting replaced, but there's been no confirmation
Blaze is all over the place and not making sense
Scott has become 'confirmed' and has since started coasting hardcore
Slicey hasn't posted since Saturday

Mod

- Prod Slicey plz?
TF was prodded Sunday and has posted since but is officially Active Lurking
wolf should've gotten back from V/LA Tuesday to my understanding

There's a lot of Lurking going on {I'm not saying I'm completely innocent in this} and some of it is pretty freaking blatant {TF, Scott, pre-replacement AGM}. We're down to a week until deadline, there's a holiday between now and then, and we have/will have 2 V/LA players between now and then.

TF should be our Lynch for the Day. The case against him is strong and his disappearing act should weigh heavily. We can deal with dan tomorrow {preferably after a bv investigation}.

Also of note

You can cry OMGUS if you want, but ooba has built circumstantial/connective cases against a few players {namely me and Slicey/k7} while prefering to Vote a Lurker. This doesn't make sense and doesn't sit well with me.

[d3x]

So far every person we have been about to lynch has had a bad claim with flavor and each bad claim was a scum.

Are you including me in that batch?

I've said that I'm not sold on his Claim, but it's not really

that

hard to believe. We have a way to check it out and I say we use that, bv willing. What are your thoughts on the other candidates {myself included}?

[d3x]

See, I think bv should investigate you d3x, not dana. It seems you are pushing the dana investigation pretty hard....too hard perhaps.

Ok, investigate me. If I would've suggested that, you'd no doubt claim that I was the Imperial GF trying to draw the Investigation.

------------------------------

@all- Sorry for the continued quote war. It's just a bit easier to respond to all that I feel needs to be responded to in this manner.

------------------------------

When you lend support to my theory about farside being a possible Jabba-ite, (and in a slightly emphatic fashion with "This") it gives a vibe that you're more prob-empire scum.

While that may be so, I was lending support to your theory that the bounty was a NullTell. Check the original quote...

Think its stupid to classify anyone as townie just because they have a bounty on them. If its a faction thing, I can easily see scum putting a bounty on one of their own to make people think like this.

This. I feel that the bounty is Null at best.

I wasn't saying she may be JabbaScum, I was saying the bounties shouldn't weigh into the ScumHunting process either way.

My main problem is that you did not add anything about SoG in your post.

That's fair. I guess bv and Lynch

did

mention him, even if it was only to say that they're less into a sog Lynch than a Scott Lynch. Check that, Lynch talked about him much more in depth in his catch-up/break-down and bv is all but confirmed. Point conceded.

If a particular person chooses to go out of the way and focus on a particular line of another player's line, I attribute two reasons to it
a) The second player is actually scum with the first and just wanted to say something to his scumbuddy. (check out RC's posts - if I remember he address WS once or twice when there was no need for it). Since it was kast, this was not the case here.
b) The second player had something to do with the topic in question i.e if it was about night kills, then it could be a subconscious form of scum gloating (or) a doc commenting on somebody else's theory about lack of night kills etc.

Your point b) is actually what I was getting at when I asked Kast about his 'one-liner'. A player coming back from a Night congratulating the Scum for a good Kill is suspucious to me. I'm not sure how I warrant suspicion for sniffing at this Tell. I also would like to point out here that while he is pretty obvTown, he's

not

confirmed. I don't agree with your sentiment of "Since it was kast, this was not the case here."

1/2? The only people he missed out by not giving any kind of comments were AGM, LMP, Slicey and me.

1/2 or 2/5, same difference. Way to debate over minutiae.

Well, its relevant because of not who you called out for lurking, who you choose not to call out to too. Why not call out TF? The only case where I could understand a specific lurker case call out is if you had posted a case or had questions for him; which was lacking in your post.

I kind of did call him out for Lurking. Reread p897, please. Also, even if I hadn't

specifically

called him out for Lurking {as opposed to calling him on not ScumHunting and/or helping the Town, read- Active Lurking}, I had a stronger case against him than just Lurking, active or normal-type. I believe an actual case > mere Lurking charges.

Well she had konowa as scum (RC's predecessor) - that might have given him a bit of a jolt. I was linking this to the fact that she was night killed; I think it was due to her suspicions because there were superior kills.

Be that as it may, it still doesn't sit well with me. She had no knowledge other than honest suspicion. We shouldn't be giving her suspicions undue weight. Please note my dissenting opinion.

1) Reducing my case on AGM to a mere "lurker" one is laughable

I'll give you this. However, I feel that of the cases you built, the one on AGM seemed by far the weakest {even moreso than the completely incorrect one on me }. My next point fleshes this out a bit more.

2) It makes more sense to go for possible Jabba scum (assuming 3 vs 3) since that would reduce a night kill in the night

See my earlier in-game rants about speculation that we cannot possibly know. I feel it's dangerous to bank on stuff like this. If we could know this as fact {even to a 75% certainty} I'd agree. In reality, we have no real way of knowing.

Warning: blatant self-declared AntiTown random speculation follows...

Hell, we could potentially have already snuffed out Jabba's team and the 'swallowed' Scum is a Sarlacc/Rancor SK that gains an NK when Jabba's dead. And before anyone brings Occam into this, the Razor has nothing to do with the probable number of Scum on a particular team.

Personally, I see more merit in going after the most probable Scum because of these reasons. Like I said, I see merit to your opinion, I just don't agree it's the best course of action.

What changed between then and now for you to think that the TF wagon is the superior one?

Um... dan's Claim? Like I said, it's not completely unbelievable and it's definitely a game changer for the time being. Especially weighing into the mix is TF's completely unwarranted, bs, and rather scummy SoftClaim.

My point being – it was very good flavor wise – d*x had already claimed to be a star wars nerd earlier in the thread and his post of avoiding a quicklynch give me a vibe that he had a role to play In preparing that FC.

I love this! Although if I were

that

good, I'd have damn sure built a better FalseClaim for myself than Wicket: VT extraordinaire! I know, I know, WIFOM. I just swell with nerd pride and Kthx is sure to come in here swinging the 'it sure sounds like d3x' stick! Lol...

------------------------------

Thank you for continuing to play, Scott.

[d3x]

/headdesk

When did this become the Newbie Queue?

@Everyone- Stop the freaking Claiming for no reason.

Allow me to define 'no reason'. Unless you are at L-1 or 2, you should not Claim. {PR with with a solid lead on Scum not-withstanding} For those who don't understand why this is really poor play, allow me to explain. We have PRs. The Mafia{s} want to Kill those PRs. The job a VT is to soak up NKs so we keep our PRs. Claiming VT narrows down the amount of targets. And no, FalseClaiming VT as a Town PR isn't good either. When it comes time to Claim {to secure a Town Win with a Guilty read for example} the Town won't believe you b/c you Claimed VT. But don't just believe what I have to say on the subject. Read this game for a great set of examples on this.

Now back to the game...

@TF- Your SoftClaim did nothing and was not helpful. People will either believe my Claim or not believe it based solely on its own. And this...

Also, I am being bandwagonned, so, if it comes to a point when you want me to fully claim, that was a setup for it.

I can only assume that you believe this based on Cry's breadcrumbing Yoda and the reaction it elicited. This doesn't work if you do it under duress. The reason Cry's breadcrumbing was good is that it was done ridiculous early when he didn't have to.

Why don't you like dan's Claim?

Finally, my softclaim was very soft, and I don't think scum would deduce anything important from that.

Please read my @Everyone above. If you're telling the truth, you're making this easier on the Scum teams.

@dan- You're calling people out for leaving my Wagon, right? Considering AGM and DP are your other top Scum reads, do you think we're all 3 on a single Scum Team? Would this be a 3rd Team or would one of the others have 3 members left alive?

@vezo- Any specific reasons why you think what you think? I also would very much like a straight answer to TF1037 from you. You read 36 pages but cba to read the last 6? And PbPAs take a lot longer then just reading. You also miss a hell of a lot. Reconcile these two, as I don't think you adequately have.

@dan-

I personally don't think TF is scum because he plays like this as town

Do you have meta to support that TF plays differently as Scum?

@Blaze-

You must be trying to get rid of d3x for whatever reason, making me think you are scum.

What?!

Thank you captain obvious. You make me look good now that I'm not the biggest idiot here.

What?!

@vezo-

As for my scum reads. I said who I find suspicious.

Congratulation. Now say why you find them suspicious.

vezo1042 is crazy-scummy. Why aren't you Voting anyone?

--------------------------

There can't be this many Scum left. Wth is happening here?

[d3x]

Hey TF-

Why don't you like dan's Claim?

@vezo- Do you plan on responding to me? Just let me know if you aren't.

[d3x]

We have ~3 RL days left. I don't like the amount of scummy players that have jumped onto the supremely easy vezo Lynch, but as there are 2 Scum Teams I'll just have to swallow it this time. vezo is ridiculously scummy and clearly the most viable Lynch today. I weep for the future...

UnVote/Vote:vezo

L-1

[d3x]

Oh yeah, and I'll be V/LA at the end of this week ~6/4-6/6

[d3x]

@Kthx-

It is uncommon for him to mention that we have a history both on and off site.

You're really giving me no choice here, bro. You're trying to pull meta on a case that I can easily disprove. I take no joy in this.

We've played in 7 games onsite. Of those 7 games, I've brought up our RL connection in 6 of them. {all stats excluding this one}
Newb812 p44
Mini855 postgame p860
Mini868 p60
Mini882 p199
Mini935 p369
Open144 p1738
This game makes 7 out of 8, and the last one you were NKed after we both replaced in close to a deadline. I have no doubt it would've come out sooner or later there as well.

I now also don't like how on the 27th TF should be our lynch for the day, yet on the 31st, when it looks like vezo's going to be the bandwagon, he joins it.

On the 27th, we had the better part of a week. Hardly anything happened between then and the 31st aside from vezo coming in and scumming things up. We had a host of people VLA/Inactive and now we're only a few days from the deadline. I still believe that TF

should

be the Day's Lynch. But if given a choice between a Wagon that won't gain enough steam to Lynch and one on a scummy {albeit less so} player that has a shot at getting Lynched with a swiftly approaching deadline, I'll chose the sure thing Lynch everytime.

he jumps on and puts vezo at L-1 even though TF is on that wagon as well

As I said before, there are 2 Scum Teams here. If I wasn't prepared to Vote with my Scum reads against players I found scummy, I wouldn't be on any Lynches.

Note the WreckStar {Scum} Lynch had sog {Empire} and RC {Scum} on it. While the sog {Empire} Lynch had RC {Scum} on it. The dynamic of having multiple opposing Scum Teams allows us to use Scum to hunt other Scum. They need to eliminate each other just as much if not moreso than they need to eliminate Town and Other. So yes, I will Vote with some of my Scum reads to take down my other Scum reads.

I'm also very curious about this...

Unvote

^due to d3x, TF, and dana all being on the wagon.

When compared to this...

danakillsu - Biggs Darklighter, Alliance Pilot (One-Shot Busdriver) [yeah, I still buy it]

When compared to whatever you're saying in p1094. Do you or do you not suspect dan? Why do you keep flipping? Why did you mention that you don't like being on the vezo Wagon with dan if you immediately afterwards post him as...

Green are those I believe are town

I gotta be honest, my Town read on you is slipping.

@Kast-

In the interest of securing an actual lynch, I'm going to
Unvote, Vote: TF

Can we please?

UnVote/Vote:Toon Fighter

I believe that's L-1.

[d3x]

FWiW-
Mod1078 TF L-4
d3x1082 TF L-5
Kast1099 TF L-4
ooba1100 TF L-3
vezo1105 TF L-2
d3x1106 TF L-1
Blaze1107 TF Hammer

You might want to count the Votes before mouthing off.

I said you should be today's Lynch and until your flip, I'm standing by that notion. I do not like the QuickHammer of Blaze, but I should've known better than to assume that you'd stay at L-1 for a while {note I declared you at L-1}. It's also not a bad thing to put a Wagon at L-1 this close to deadline.

[d3x]

You can go ahead and think I'm Scum all you want, Kthx. The fact is, your logic is flawed.

You said it is uncommon for me to say that we have history and that is now the main reason you're coming back to my Wagon. The fact that the situations aren't exactly matching doesn't mean anything. The fact that I do it both as Town and Scum means it's Null at best {especially when you factor in that when I use it as Scum, I'm making a case on you}.

What does mean something is that I mention our history when it becomes evident that either you are getting a read on me or I am getting a read on you based off nonThread information {read- RL meta}.

The fact that you also chose not to comment on anything besides my list is also telling. The fact that you've been hardcore tunnelling me since you replaced in is also rather telling, imo.

[d3x]

Skimmed the last few pages. Why am I getting prodded while I'm on V/LA again? I'll read/post when I'm officially back {tomorrow}.

[d3x]

I'm keeping this short and sweet. Please re-ask questions if you'd like answers. Enough has happened that some of them are invalid.

I believe Kthx. My sister spells her name 'Leah' so I'm not surprised at all by that. Aside from this, what other explanation would there be for no Kills {2 expected} and a blocked investigation in a single night? Especially considering there has been nothing to suggest an RBer aside from the OPG earlier. We can be sure of the blocked investigation due to the verbage in E4 matching the verbage in bv's result.

@Lynch-

Every single one of these roles has been a fighter or leader of the old republic/rebel alliance

Really? R2 and C3PO; are they fighters or leaders? I think you're stretching here and the data isn't completely lining up for you. I don't think it's scummy per say, but you're definitely stretching. If anyone has a Role that dismisses this theory, please keep it to yourself. No reason to continue needlessly outting Roles.

Summation of the last 5 or so pages- I'm ready to Hammer Blaze unless anyone objects with a valid reason.

[d3x]

Here's a suggestion that I'm willing to throw out there. I win even if I die so long as the Town wins. I think I have a way to help us out. A lot of people are very doubtful about my alignment, thus I'm obviously a major distraction. Lynch me and look at those who have been pushing hard at my Wagon the 2-3 times it's built up.

Basically, I'm offering myself up as a sacrificial goat so that you can catch Scum.

Oh, and btw Lynch- I just checked for grins. My Role PM

directly

speaks to me being a fighter and possessing proAlliance leadership. Lol.

[d3x]

Agreed, if there was confusion, I was asking if there are any players who took a night action and it was NOT roleblocked then please say so.

While I was specifically talking about Lynch's 'Leaders and Fighters' theory, I agree with your assessment re: nonBlocked PRs. Is someone took an action last night and wasn't Blocked {barring E1 actions that take place before RBs} they should come out now and we Lynch us a fake Leia!

I'd have to look closely at the Wagons that built on me side by side. My suggestion is such that those with a better mind for Wagon Alanysis than I happen to possess can find Scum with a true Town on me.

[d3x]

@Kthx- We need to be very clear about this {without you getting all ModKilled for quoting your PM}. Please confirm with the Mod that your action contradicts the rules and thus Blocks all actions regardles of E1.

Do you agree that with this confirmation, either you or Blaze are Scum?

[d3x]

That's all I need.

Vote:BlazezRB

[d3x]

The fact is, Blaze would not be told (NO MATTER WHAT) that he was RB'd.

Of course he wouldn't be told he was RBed. But he sure as hell wouldn't be told that his action worked {ala Blaze1230}. One of the 2 of them is lying Scum. We're about to find out which.

[d3x]

@dan- What? If you get successfully RBed, you do not succeed at whatever task you undertake. Outside of a Bastard Game, you won't be given a false positive result. That's just how it works. Check out E4 again.

E4) Non-investigative roles with an active ability will not be told if their action was successful or not.

If Blaze was RBed, he wouldn't be told that he was successful in sneaking back before anyone noticed {Blaze1230&1231}. He

specifically

says that the Mod told him he was successful. If Kthx checked with the Mod to see that his RB ability Blocks all actions regardless of E1 {as he claims}, then Blaze was RBed. If Blaze was RBed, he wouldn't have a false positive. If Blaze is telling the truth, Kthx is not. One of the 2 are lying Scum.

Also, if I'm talking to you and I say 'them', I cannot possibly be talking about you. Settle down.

[d3x]

I never learned to read.

[d3x]

You can't prove that I'm not 1000 monkeys striking random keys at 1000 different computers, subsequently filtered into a single post at random intervals.

[d3x]

@bv- Did you tell them about Garth's pubes?

[d3x]

@Kthx- My p1276 was predicated upon both of you 'telling the truth' in the Roles you were representing. I was not taking into account Blaze being a VI Newb Townie. In fact, when he read the ultimatums, he should have damn well Claimed that he was bullshitting this entire f*ing time.

I don't have a BlackBall list, but Blaze is really making me rethink that standpoint...

On to current game things.

I understand bv's Vote. I don't agree with it of course {in large part to Kthx' Claim of RBing all actions and this flavor matching

exactly

to the OP regarding investigative RBs}, but I understand it. Kthx, I'm not getting yours. I still stand behind my assertion that one of the two of you had to be Scum in the represented scenario. Now that we know that Blaze is a freaking liar, I'm counting that as Scum {regardless of his actual Role}.

Let me ask you something along those lines. You are saying that I was setting you up for a Lynch today, right? How would I know that Blaze was bullshitting Town? How on Earth could I

possibly

know that? If the answer is that I could have no way, then the logic holds in my argument. In other words, unless I

knew

that Blaze was telling the truth, I couldn't set you up for anything. One of the 2 of you had to be lying {Scum} and one of you was.

Allow me to further break this down.

Why would one of us (blaze or I) have to be scum? Due to my PR, blaze was of course scum in my eyes. Blazes lies do not however make me scum. If blaze would have had the PR he claimed, then yes, you all SHOULD think I’m scum. Fact of the matter is though, blaze was the liar and the only way I knew he was lying was because I have(had now) the role I claim.

That is the only logical conclusion from anyone who is not you or Blaze. Either you RBed everyone regardless of E2 and Blaze is a lying Scumbag or Blaze Commuted and you are a lying Scumbag. Within the confines of the debate as presented to the rest of us, one of you is lying. There is no reason or excuse for Town to lie in such a manner, thus the liar is Scum. In short,

of course

you're not Scum because Blaze lied.

Considering the last 2 Nights of No Kills, if you guys are going to gun for me, then do so. We'll have a disappointing MisLynch, but we won't lose a potential 4 extra Townies in the process.

I appologize for all the swearing, but that was f*ing ridiculous. Believe it or not, I actually editted this for language a few times...

[d3x]

Also, I think you're now just doing it to annoy me, but why is my Claim...

an ewok of all things!

...? I am what the Mod made me. I'll expect an appology when you see my dead short furry body.

[d3x]

So we're looking for a Speed Lynch, then?

[d3x]

@Scott- Not only are you regurgitating an earlier theory without adding anything {IoA}, you're stretching the truth.

So it seems we have a theme for the alliance VTs.

We have 3 VTs. I know you said earlier that you were including OPGs, but to then say that the VTs have a theme? That's a load. OPGs are PRs, limited or not. We have 3 VT flips. You could also say 100% of the VTs are Alliance pilots/officers. It's interesting that you didn't include the droids here. They are Masons {aka- limited PRs}. Did you specifically skew the data so I'd look worse?

[d3x]

Hey Kthx- Are you reading my posts yet?

[d3x]

^^EBWOP for the triple!

{IIoA}

[d3x]

I'm against a Mass Name Claim. I'll try and post specifics later tonight, ut it may be a day or 2...

[d3x]

I'm posting from my phone and I haven't read anything since my last post.

Mass Name Claim favors Scum. They have good Fake Claims and all of the Town PRs are pretty serious characters in SW. It will be really easy for them to figure out who is who while we ultimately have to wade through all of the potential Town PRs in order to get Scum. Or they can choose not to use their Fake Claims and instead go for random minor characters (which may already be happening) so as to out the obvPRs. Mass Name Claim does not help Town nearly as much as it helps Scum (either Team).

[d3x]

the scum fakeclaims have a pattern

And what. pray tell, would that pattern be?

[d3x]

Scum members appear to have furry animals as their fake claims, and that's what you claimed.

Did I miss RC's FakeClaim? Or are you suggesting solely due to WS's Chewie Claim that there's a pattern between him and me? Because if you are, that's reaching, ridiculous, and just plain stupid. You suggested that they have this

and

it's my Claim, thus stating that regardless of what my Claim is, they have this 'pattern'. Hell, you could make the same argument for all of the Others to have Cloud City based FakeClaims. One popped up, thus there's a pattern!!! OMGWTFBBQ!!!1!

----------------------------------------

@Kthx- I like vezo because he's scummy as hell {though Blaze took this NewbScum cake and look where that ended up}.

I like DP b/c he leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I especially don't like the UnNKable stuff and the flavor that accompanies it. In fact, the last few Scum/AntiTown were caught for similar reasons...

Vote:DP

I'm not feeling LynchScum, but maybe oobaScum. It's an outside possibility.

--------------------------

I think today's Lynch should be between myself, DP, and vezo. I'm putting myself out there because if I live through a few more Days, the practicality of me surviving into an EndGame scenario is really high. I think this would be

horribly

bad for the Town considering the amount of mistrust that's sitting out there on me atm. In fact, I might suggest that Scum are stalling my inevitable Lynch for this exact reason.

[d3x]

And they're off!
d3x takes an early lead out of the gate,
Going into turn two, DP is making a strong showing,
They're virtually neck and neck after the straight away,
d3x is pulling ahead!
Turn four has d3x by a nose!
It's d3x and DP!
d3x and DP!

@Kthx- What exactly is the flavor on your Mass RB ability, btw?

[d3x]

@dan- Why do you think we won't be getting 'much more' evidence for today? Are you assuming that Scum will largely shut up because the Lynches on the table {MisLynch in my case}? What about ooba's information on vezo? What about the players who have not even posting today yet {vezo's V/LA until the 17th, wolf}?

In fact, until we hear from ooba...

UnVote

[d3x]

Meh. I got that from Lynch's MisQuote above.

[d3x]

Whoever said it, I'd like the info to come out before we proceed to the Lynch.

[d3x]

A combination of subtle psycological reinforcement with a constant barrage of truthiness. Basically when I flip Wicket VT, I will hold you responsible and I can't tell you that until postgame. Thus when you read back over my posts, a little dagger will cut into you every time.

[d3x]

@Lynch

First- Let's not go around calling players Confirmed if they aren't. While I believe Kast is Town, he hasn't been Confirmed {unless I completely missed something}. He demonstrated an ability that he said he had. What guarantee is there that Scum or Other can't have that ability? Again, I believe Kast is Town, but he is not Confirmed. Hell, even the players that have been cleared through Sane investigations aren't Confirmed.

Second- There's no inconsistency there. I am saying that I'm a valid Lynch for today because I am. I'm a distraction largely due to the fact that I can't defend myself. The best case against me is between Kthx's gut and a Role that I have no control over. It doesn't help that when I was investigated, there was a Mass RB. I want the dagger felt because I've been completely truthful and there's nothing I can do to stop a Wagon on me due to bogus reasons. Also of note would be the smiley face, denoting a joke. Simmer down.

[d3x]

I was expecting something

way

better than that. Let the Day commence.
VOTE: DP

[d3x]

I agree with him not being a GF. I don't think he is Empire either. I think there may be some scum power roles out there still, and that is why I'm suspicious of him.

Are you suggesting that the Scum team have multiple Investigation Immune Roles? With the potential of an Empire GF? Wha--?

Other than d3x, who else would have been afraid of an investigate?

Every other nonInvestigation Immune Scum in the game. The number of players that haven't been Investigated are swiftly diminishing, thus the percentage chance for one to be hit is rapidly increasing.

[d3x]

@Mod

- I'll probably be V/LA for a few days {through the weekend}.

Got it.

vezo2.0 really needs to come on back here and post before the end of the Day.

[d3x]

Hey vezo- If that's the order of the Day, then why aren't you Voting me?

[d3x]

I think we're missing a lot of posts {and partial posts} in MidGame. I just went to Iso ooba and after he came back into the game D4, he posted a breakdown of who he thought was Imperial/Scum Scum {towards the bottom of page 40}. I have the first part of that post and nothing more.

Does anyone need MORE town flips that shows that d3x's claim does not fit with this flavor?

I can't wait for PostGame...

[d3x]

@Scott- What is the case against me? That my RoleName doesn't fit some theme that instantly makes me Scum? How the hell am I supposed to defend against that when I am telling the truth? Multiple cases have been built against me and I've responded to them {aside from ImpScumooba's which was really flippy and relied heavily on connections to players that are alive}. Your reaction is to thus Vote me based off of my RoleName while your contribution has been all but nill this game? I think you said it best...

Really pro-town behavior.

[d3x]

Has anyone else noticed that Scott's Lynch candidates match ooba's almost

identically

?

[d3x]

umm... dan....?

wth are you talking about? farside was not a roleblocker.

According to the Mod, she was.

farside22 - Wes Janson (

Alliance One-Shot Roleblocker

), swallowed Night 3

[d3x]

I'll respond to the rest later.

[d3x]

I've heard enough and this should've happened a long time ago {in a galaxy far far away}.

Hammer:danakillsu

[d3x]

Vote:danakillsu

Whatever.

[d3x]

Also, if you're truly pulling for Town, are you the last of your team?

[d3x]

I'm here. It's been a hell of a week iRL what with putting in my 2 week notice at work and all. No excuses, Mafia 1st! Lol!

@Lynch- I still stand behind the sentiment that there was no contradiction. I was put up for Lynch {and bred the most suspicion} due to the speculation of my Role. There is no way I can defend against that. None. I am thus a viable Lynch because if I got into MyLo or LyLo, it would be the easiest Scum Win ever. There is suspicion on me for somethign I cannot do anything about. In light of that, I was chiding people over feeling the guilt over my inevitable MisLynch because the 'case' against me thus far has mostly consisted of Setup Speculation and trying to out guess the Mod.

Now for things I can defend against.

I would also recommend Claiming, sog.

Your response is that I wanted my buddy to come in with a Fake Claim. I contend that it's stupid to Lynch someone without getting a Claim. The potential to MisLynch is much more prevelant without a Claim and we had just caught hp and Wreck Star over botched Claims.

Next, I didn't claim to have orchestrated my intent so that bv could get the Hammer at some later date. That was the plan put forth by the Town and I said

in that post

what I was doing.

Finally, I asked dan if he was the last Scum so we could figure out if there's only one Empire left. If I were Empire, I'd know that he was the last Scum. I can't imagine lopsided Scum Teams. That's ridiculous.

[d3x]

Plz don't ignore vezo sliding through the entire freaking EndGame after I'm gone. I have a feeling that this is going to end very badly...

[d3x]

You know what? I'm betting that he's the last Scum. Read his Iso {especially after the account change}. This coupled with these convenient disappearing acts and early scummy play is ridiculous.

VOTE: vezo

[d3x]

Please tell you're going to Lynch vezo tomorrow. I promise to go quietly.

I'm L-2.

[d3x]

I'm getting Lynched today, LMP. You don't have to confirm the fact that you feel suspicious about me or my posts. I'd recommend that if you are Town, you refrain from actions that will make you look bad once I flip Town.

[d3x]

That's patently ridiculous, Kthx. Remember my 'reads post' early on? If my Scum-dar was so on, Scott woulb be Scum (generic term, not team). While I'm not ruling that out, I've definitely been off this game. I should be the Lynch today, but I never have self-Voted and probably never will. I would strongly recommend watching the NKs over the next day or so. With 'confirmed' Townies around and no more PRs, there's no reason for any other targets.

[d3x]

EBWOP: There's all kinds of grammatical F-ups there. I'm posting from my phone.

[d3x]

@Lynch- You're not pointing out scummy things I'm saying. You said that my post 'concerned you'. That's something you say to give a read to the other players. All of my posts should 'concern you' if you think I'm Scum.

Also, I'm not 'probably the Lynch today', I

am

the Lynch today. IIRC the reason I'm not dead has to do with vezo's Lurking, V/LA, and the holiday weekend.

I think you guys should lynch me... but I'm gonna taunt you for it because the reasons I got to the point where I have to be Lynched were bogus and weak

/fixed

I strongly recommend you start using this time to ScumHunt the rest of the players, so that you can look back at these conversations tomorrow and get a lead. If not, tomorrow is going to start with a bunch of...

derp. well i guess he was telling the truth about everything. well, he was scummy as hell anyway, so it's not my fault he was misLynched.

[d3x]

Wait. Aside from the IIoA...

considering both scumteams have 3 members

How do you know that both ScumTeams have 3 members? This is a small slip, but it is still a slip. From a Townie, this sentence should read "assuming both ScumTeams have 3 members".

Seriously, you guys are Lynching him tomorrow, right?

[d3x]

This close to deadline it would really suck to have one of our confirmed players replaced.

I disagree wholeheartedly with this. If we have a Confirmed Townie just sitting there Lurking through EndGame, that is a huge detriment to the Town. If he gets replaced, it will be with a presumably more active player. That is a good thing. Do I prefer wolf to actually participate? Yes. Is it a bad thing if he gets replaced because he won't? Not one bit.

@vezo- Allowing that you're not lying about anything; what was the purpose of p1567? You say that it's because if you and I are Lynched, we'll have a single Day to win this thing. Aside from it being a potential fear tactic to guard yourself against a Lynch, you just finished saying the exact same thing in p1556. Why repeat it with no further involvement; especially when your overall participation in the last few Days has been next to nothing. You say you were rushed and didn't get to finish your post. Then why post it? You were nowhere close to a prod. Your explanations aren't quite matching up.

[d3x]

Yes I repeated the same thing.

No one was asking if you repeated youself; I want to know

why

you did it. Especially as opposed to participating with any remote form of ScumHunting {which you've effectively avoided doing for a good long while now}.

Reading back, I'm also not comfortable with these conflicting statements...

My point is you can lynch me and d3x and still have one day left. I know I'll flip town. You'll still lynch d3x tomorrow if you lynch me today and viceversa. The order doesn't count really much.

...and...

If you want lynch me now. On the other hand if you lynch d3x you end the game now

If 3 posts later you're

soooo

convinced that I'm Scum, then why would we have a Day left after Lynching both of us? Why wouldn't you make the 2nd statement in the 1st post? Damn do I like you for Scum.

So Here's the plan guys. Lynch me once we get some solid comments from wolf, Slicey, and Kthx. Lynch vezo tomorrow. If we don't Win at that point, look back over the Wagons on me and find your last Scum. I promise they'll be there in some capacity {though I highly doubt it's going to go past vezo}.

[d3x]

EBWoReading over both of his Isos:

Especially as opposed to participating with any remote form of ScumHunting {which you've not done a single time in this game}.

Seriously. Go read his Isos.

[d3x]

Mod

- Can we get a replacement on wolf, plz? I know the OP says 72 after the prod, but it's been over 48 and he's been MIA for the entirity of the last few Days. I mean hell, he has 3 posts in the last

month

!

[d3x]

Stalled game has stalled.

Mod

- A Kthx prod and a wolf replacement, plz.

[d3x]

/facepalm

[d3x]

The 'case' against my Claim is that it doesn't fit the general hypothetical theme of pilots, main characters, and officers. It was mainly pushed forward by Scum iIRC. Ultimately it's trying to outguess the Mod. It's slightly more credible due to the timing of my Claim {coming in before the MassNameClaim before the 'theme' was discovered}. Because of this being against me {something that creates serious doubt about my alignment which I have no control over and thus cannot defend against} I am lobbying for being the Lynch today. I refuse to SelfHammer, though. It's against my religion.

[d3x]

Ah the sweet release of death. I'll see you guys in PostGame.

[d3x]

/sigh...

[d3x]

Thanks for the Mod, Mod. Congrats Empire! You guys played a hell of a game.