TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[killerjester]

/confirm

[killerjester]

How does that make name claiming non-optimal play? If it's not the standard Good vs Bad Guy scenario, what is the problem?

Trying to guess out the PR's in the town. For instance, House M.D. (if used) would more likely than not be a doctor or some saving role. To fit the character.

[killerjester]

But, if the alignments are randomised, then the roles would probably have some amount of randomness in them, too?

I mean. How useful is a Mafia Doctor?

~ CJ

Not at all. It would make the game easier for the Mafia to figure out who the town's PRs are. It wouldn't help the town at all.

[killerjester]

VOTE: vezok

Name one thing anti-town about a quick lynch on vezok before he's able to post.

I can't think of anything

VOTE: Vezok

[killerjester]

My understanding is that you have just joined MS from another site after the ‘challenge’ thread in MD. Is this understanding correct?

If so do you have previous interactions or knowledge of Vezok elsewhere?

No, I played SC2 custom map a bit and found my way here independently. I've never heard of vezok before this thread.

The Jilynne lead seems (comparatively) the strongest lead we have atm, and we haven't elicited a response yet so I feel my vote is best placed there so everyone knows we mean srs business.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Jilynne1991

[killerjester]

Ok, lemme clarify my earlier post. I think vezo's a VI, but I'll certainly never vote him again for a policy lynch, because he actually was the first person to do [REDACTED] in [REDACTED.]

Fair [unvote[/unvote]

Unvote: Chevre
Vote: ThreeIsFrench

First rule of society. Never trust the Frenchies.

So, please elaborate on why you preferred this vote to Vezok after being specifically invited.

David, you missed this. Are you skimming?
VOTE: DavidX
I'd like it answered, please.
Note: It was in reference to this invitation.

Now stop fretting about it and vote Vezok!

[killerjester]

EBWOP: Bah, missed that bracket. I'm not going to fix it though, since unvoting isn't required.

[killerjester]

I'm not skimming. I'll clarify this with a question.

How long have you been a French sympathiser?

I'm quite fond of French wine. Moving on
UNVOTE:

@easjo682, you've yet to vote. Do you feel there is someone in 6 pages of talk scummy enough to deserve your vote? If not, why?

@Rodion, I think we've past the vezok bandwagon. If you had any final thoughts/readings of how certain players responded, care to share them before moving on? Also, where do you feel your vote is best placed at the moment?

[killerjester]

Ok, so why did you say you didn’t see any reasons to not wagon Vezok if you have no previous knowledge of his play?

Because the whole, "Let's lynch Vezok before he can even post," seemed joking and lighthearted. I was going more for sarcasm with my post and hitched onto the bandwagon with my RVS. Technically I could also say I was fishing for people's reactions to my post, but honestly the thought hadn't crossed my mind at the time. Then I moved on when I noticed something a little more serious.

EBWOP: Besides, they're others on this wagon, if you're REALLY looking for the one that seems most opportunistic, you should be aiming for:

And the scumdar goes wild!!! DING DING DING DING DING

Blatant “I’m doing something scummy but look over here this guys is more scummy vote him instead” tell detected.

Seriously – Nero is scum for his single case of bandwagon hopping, but you aren’t scum when you’ve done it multiple times?

I felt the same way about Vifam contradicting himself. "I may be sheeping but this guy is also sheeping and everyone should look at him now, not me." That's not a defense, that's deflecting suspicion. And I do find it quite scummy.

@Vifam, could you elaborate your thoughts a little more on MoI? I'm curious because I'm not getting the same read as you are.

[killerjester]

Basically MoI I want to know why you think I am better lynch compared to Nero or anyone else on the Jyl wagon, ASIDE from the fact I've "sheeped" twice.

You havn't offered a defense for yourself, that's what gets to me the most. MoI may have his own feelings though, and I'd like to hear them.

For now VOTE: Vifam

[killerjester]

Vifam might be scum, but the response sounds like it would be from town also. But, that's probably because I'm soft-hearted.

I've gotten the same vibes to be honest. I was looking for a solid defense to confirm a town read and didn't get one, disappointingly. However, while I don't believe sheeping without a formed opinion is in itself is a dead-given scumtell, it trumps my gut town feeling and warrants a strong

FoS

while I look at other options. No sense in getting head-locked over something that could possibly be nothing more than a town mistake.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Zinger

I see you've went ahead and name-claimed, in renegade fashion. Then you roleplayed a bit and dropped off my map. You can stay in character, but I'd likes your thoughts on..well anything that's happened so far. Or at least Earl Hickey's thoughts. He's a smart fellow. I'd ask that you put your vote on your top scumspect? If no one in particular sticks out, why?

[killerjester]

Not wanting to headclaim is about as anti-town as it gets.

Watch how much I care...

Watch...

Wait for it...

...

...

...

The anticipation is killing me D:

Mod: I'm find the hydras a bit confusing myself. Can we have some clarification on this?

[killerjester]

Killerjester: if the Vezok wagon was RVS (at least according to MoI), why were you interested in the reason why David Xanatos apparently disregarded/skimmed MoI's invitation? It is scummy not to sheep someone's RVS and come up with a joke of his own?

Townies have an incentive to read

every single post

in a game, as every post brings them close to their goal of lynching all anti-town. Mafia will often skim the posts and only look for subjects they can bring the town's attention to. The joke was fine. I found the fact that he didn't respond to the question more scummy than anything else, as I feel a townie wouldn't have missed a question directly pointed at them.

I have some questions for whoever wants to aid me. Thanks in advance!

1 - What's a policy lynch?
2 - Pvt Slate mentioned he's "EST". Did he reference his timezone or something else? If the former, is it common to mention your timezone?
3 - How common are mafia busdrivers here? Zelink said he'd vig Zinger, should we be worried that a mafia busdriver redirects the kill into someone else? I'm still confused as to whether Zelink made a joke when he claimed vig or not and his "sarcasm" was only present when he replied to Oversoul's weird post (Oversoul asked the claimed vig to protect someone - I think it was simply a poor phrasing and he actually asked the doc to protect the vig - or the person the vig promised to kill). Also, if the vig claim is serious, Zelink, would you also name claim so we test the theory on the randomness of roles (a theory you mentioned yourself in #122)?
4 - What's a "PL" (mentioned by Vifam in #145)?
5 - What's an ISO post? It's probably your personal post count, but what does it stand for?
6 - Are vezok and Andew common targets of RVS wagons? Why?

1. & 4. A "PL" is a Policy Lynch, where you propose to lynch someone regardless of alignment because their actions will only hurt the town later on.
2. EST is Eastern Starnard Timezone (GMT -5:00). Mentioning your timezones helps because it will give the other players a better feel for when to expect your posts.
3. That's a role where I'd say, "Don't try to outguess the Mod." We might have one, or we might not. Everything that goes on during the night is pretty WIFOM anyway. (He could he saying he'd shoot Zelink when really- something elaborate.. etc...)

[killerjester]

You can stay in character, but I'd likes your thoughts on..well anything that's happened so far.

Fair enough.

ZeL1nk is clearly holding grudges across from a previous game. He really shouldn't do that, and it is definitely not helpful to the town if he carries on with that behavior.

I think Vifam has some explaining to do. He looks like he is trying to find excuses to point fingers, which is what scum do. He said he didn't like my reaction to 'being shot', well I want to know why he didn't like it, and what would be a more acceptable reaction. Should I have approved of ZeL1nk's decision to try to shoot me tonight?

Peregrine might have been counter-claiming me (I am not 100% sure, his post is vague), but if he was indeed attempting to counter-claim me, it is a lie and he is scum.

Everything else is a null-tell, but I will be targeting ZeLink tonight.

That is enough from me for now.

Thanks I don't think Peregrine was trying to CC you.
UNVOTE:

I don't like Vifam trying to deflect the suspicion on him onto someone else, but I'm going to keep my vote on the Jilynne slot for now. Vifam has enough votes on him at the moment, and I want to keep a close eye on whoever will replace Jil.

Attempt to distance yourself from the bandwagon, noted.

VOTE: Leonshade

[killerjester]

EBWOP: Peregrine just ninja'd me... twice I think? D:

[killerjester]

Is that your only comment? Vifam joined the Jil wagon early on, what are your feelings on this? And why do you think Jil is scummier than Vifam?

[killerjester]

I feel I owe some more input on the Vifam wagon. I stated my feelings on Vifam back when I unvoted her, and I think the townies are escalating some of her scumtells more than they deserve to. I think this is a combination of town-aligned members pushing a bandwagon to test for reactions and scums looking for a mislynch.

The scummiest players, I feel, simply from their votes on the Vifam wagon are...*checks my handbook* 3isFrench, DavidX, and Rodion. It seemed to me that DavidX and Rodion were both notably hesitant in casting their votes on Vifam, and gave me the feeling they were fishing for town approval before jumping on the bandwagon. 3isFrench has quite limited responses and is making it hard for me to get a good read. From what I can tell though, he's using a minimalist approach to push his votes. I think the mixed readings I'm getting from him are largely a result of being a hydra, as the posts which felt town to me were signed ~hip and the posts which felt scummy were left anonymous.

@French-heads, if you had to pick one thing that sticks out as the scummiest of all scummy things about Vifam, what would that be?

Marco, Pvt, Peregrine, and Leonshade are shying away from the Vifam wagon. Leon I think is most scummy in doing this because he states he feels Vifam is suspicious but chooses to keep his vote on Jil, where it has no influence on the current bandwagon and in no way helps the town. Marco, Pvt, and Peregrine slightly believe Vifam is a town (barring a few slip ups). I'd like to hear their reasoning a bit more, especially since marco still has his vote on Vifam but it now doubting his decision.

@Pvt, you also promised us something in your #232 and my eager ears await you.

[killerjester]

killerjester is so very town. cool.

Buddying will get you nowhere!

[killerjester]

I'm pretty much waiting for Vifam to make his case. My vote on him was actually kind of an OMGUS vote. He was unnecessarily asking me why I hadn't voted yet so I voted him. During that conversation, he was misreping me which actually made me confident in the vote. One of his posts that really stood out to me was where he posted his reads. Kind of seemed forced.

I'm still suspicious of him but less so because the wagon on him sort of just built up.

Thanks. I do recall you stating you originally voted him for shallows reasons and gradually grew into feeling stronger about your vote. I was simply curious why you've turned around to feel less confident about your place on the wagon, and I feel you've explained yourself well. I think we're all waiting for Vifam's response.. just a bit

@ killerjester: from your language it seems like you think there is no chance that vifam is scum. Is this correct?

No, sorry if it came off that way. I was actually quite conflicted about Vifam's alignment back around my #177 post. It was enough uncertainty, in my opinion, to withdraw my vote.

how am I meant to explain why I'm not voting for someone other than to say I don't feel anyone is sticking out as scum. This is because all of the posting thus far has come off to me like townies bickering and typical early game sheeping. The start of most games comes off like that to me. When I feel it is time I will lay down a vote, but I will not be pressured into it.

I'm of the belief that I should only lay down a vote when I feel someone is deserving of it. Because it shows that you genuinly believe a person to be dodgy as fuck, when you always have a vote on someone especially if you shift it round alot it comes off wishy washy (and potentially sheepish or WIFOM)

Apologies ahead of time for cropping your post, I trimmed it down to two parts - one was directed at me and the other I have a question about.

Don't feel pressured into voting for a

particular

person. However, I do want to see a vote come from you onto whomever you genuinely believe to be scummy or at least worth following-up on. I find it very hard to believe you don't find anyone in this game slightly more scummy than the next guy, are you even trying to scumhunt?

And on your opinion of vote hopping, well... I've been vote hopping. To a count, I've voted for

6 different people already

. Do you find those traits you associate with vote hopping (being wishy washy, sheeping, or WIFOM) apply to me? I'll be honest with you, I don't like the way you're playing. You're not helping the town very much and it seems more to be self-sufficient behavior, out only to see that you survive. The only reason my vote isn't on you right now is the following...

I don't think Vifam joining the Jil wagon early on is anything special, it was a viable wagon at a time when not much else was going on. As for Jil, me staying on that bandwagon was more because I felt that there were already a lot of people pressuring Vifam so I figured I could do more by pressuring and questioning another player. But since it looks like it might take a while to replace Jilynne, I don't see much reason to stay on that bandwagon.

We cannot bandwagon more than one target at a time. That's simply not how the game works. Yes, other scum

do

exist, but your vote is your entire statement to the town. Either you feel Vifam is the most scummy and your vote belongs there, or you have doubts and you keep your vote on Jil and you tell us why you have doubts on the bandwagon. My question about Vifam joining the Jil wagon was more-so asking to detail, since you think both are pretty scummy, why Vifam would have voted for Jil? If you saw nothing out of the ordinary then why are you so convinced that Vifam is scum? Switching your vote to Vifam at this point seems only to appease the town, because I pointed out what was off about you. All your reasoning seems to be just repeating what everyone else has said. You're looking scummier and scummier to me, and I'm

very confident

my vote is placed where it ought to be.

I think I've found *the* one. Anyone else down for lynching Leon? Or should I *gasp* propose, first?

[killerjester]

Hehe, sorry for the not posting. I keep going to, then get turned away by the whole switching accounts thing.

I have had my vote on andrew since RVS, yes, so...
UNVOTE: andrew94

Vifam is... I don't know what to think. See, I do believe that Vifam's behaviour is newbish, but... The fact that he's made an Alt account kind of nulls that. If he thinks he's not all that new, then we can't let him off for being new.
For this, I'm going to VOTE: Vifam, for now.

I really want your thoughts on Leonshade. Vifam is dodgy at best, but I'm getting clear scum readings off of Leonshade. Humor me and pressure him?

Zinger is not putting forth any sort of content whatsoever, despite doing some pretty decent scumhunting in Super Hero Mafia. PeregrineV and Leonshade both look like they are active lurking, not putting much content out, and not really committing to any reads.

My thoughts on Zinger are pretty much the same, and while I'm not sure about Leon, I'm pretty sure Pere's 'active lurking' isn't an indication of alignment.

What are your thoughts on Leon?

66:

Rodion+7

for trying to escalate the obv-early Vezok wagon to a fullclaim
141:

Leon+7

for voting my predecessor based on a "defence" of vezok, when all she'd offered was a meta position. You can't "defend" somebody who isn't under attack - so this just screams of being a weak effort to join an existing wagon.

I think you had to run prematurely (post to be continued?), but these are your top 2 at the moment. I'll wait for the rest of your readings, but do know I expect a vote from you on your top scumspect.

Page 12 and I already got a damn prod. I am sorry guys, I completely forgot about this game. I am signed up for so many and I did this on a whim at 12 A.M.

I will post content when I get back to a computer, but for now I have a pretty big town read on Rodion and MagnaofIllusion.

About Vifam, I can't really say much as I haven't really looked into his posts, but I did see some sheeping.

Take some time, read the thread. Let us know what you think.

oh the irony.

nero why would you assume that? not a good thing to assume.

VOTE: vifan

TIF:

a) You were already voting Vifam. Who did you think you were voting?
b) (Ignoring the fact that you were already voting Vifam,) what prompted you to vote Vifam here?

The VC didnt have my name on it; thought maybe i forgot to vote. Same reasons, as previously but with the added evidence, i just voted due to thinking i was off the wagon

Well after looking through all of the vote counts and noticing that ThreeisFrench was represented accurately in all of them, with NO notations of editing, I can only take that excuse for double vote as a lie. feel free to check Mod's ISO here

ThreeisFrench is obviously lying, and why would you lie about something that could be attributed to a little mistake. Strongly leaning scum.

~

BALLIN

I enjoyed reading your DX case, there was quite solid info in there. I brought up the 3French point you made because I'm pretty sure his hydra's other head missed the fact that he already voted Vifam. Does this mean he's lying about his own vote? I don't think so. Does this mean he's skimming the thread? Yes, absolutely, which raises questions of its own.

Now that I have that out of the way, epic post about Leon incoming..

[killerjester]

Game awesome so far. Tell me when you're tunneling hard so I have a reason to catchup wall.

Killer, calling Meransiel. Come in Meransiel. I'm tunneling hard.

I rarely have strong enough reads early on in D1 to consider one player scummier than another, so I consider my D1 vote to be a tool with which to pressure people. I now consider Vifam scummy enough for a vote, but at the time of my initial post suspecting him, I wanted to stay on Jil because I felt that there might be more to her/her player slot. A voice can easily drown out in a large crowd, so I was hoping to bring the town's attention to another possible scum instead of being just another vote on a bandwagon. Now I feel Vifam is scummy enough to merit a vote above everyone else, however.

- Scum fabricate excuses to claim that they find someone suspicious.

Vifam is only

now

more scummy? Christ, all the kid said was that he was going to prepare a defense for himself, so we would know what to expect. How does THAT make him scummier over everything else that he's done? Vifam might be scum, but he's not the smartest tool in the shed, so it wouldn't surprise me he fucked it up as town. You on the other hand, I am certain that you are scum after reading your recent posts.

There's nothing I can say to your comments about appeasing town, I can only hope that my actions will show that you're wrong.

- Scum uses manipulation and deceit to achieve their nefarious ends.

You're trying to sweep

me

and my accusations under the rug? This is red-light scum sirens flashing right here.

This would be a contradiction if me thinking that Vifam has enough votes was a viewpoint that existed in a vacuum, but it did not. I don't think that there's a limit to the number of votes any given player should have, I just felt that Vifam, at that moment, had enough votes. I later found him scummier, thus meriting more votes.

I could have voted for one of those people, but I saw no reason to vote for them over Vifam.

- Scum try to look suspicious of someone that is in no danger of being lynched so they are uninvolved with the lynch of a townie.

AGAIN WITH THE NINJA MOVES. Meriting more votes? If I recall correctly..and I do. Back in #270 you said the reason why you were switching from Jil to Vifam was because it was taking awhile for Jil to be replaced. Now you're saying you switched it because you no longer felt Vifam had sufficient votes on him, as you did before when you kept your vote on Jil, and needed more. So which is it?

You aren't voting for anyone and most of your posts have been either fluff or one-word answers to questions. Are you actually going to do anything in this game, other than answering "yes" to this question?

- Scum need to look like they are trying to catch scum.

Here you clearly feel like you need to start pretend scum-hunting again.

You are an abomination of scumminess.

My point is that I back up what I say with my reasoning and

my vote

. Like with Jil, like with DavidX, like with Vifam, whenever I said something I pushed the wagon. Something you've failed to do. You failed at even appearing like you wanted Vifam lynched. Nowhere did you say you wanted him lynched. You are too cowardly a mafia to try that.

[killerjester]

RVS is always a joke. But it yields results so I never complain.

[killerjester]

I still need to form my opinion on the Killerjester vs. Leonshade case. Hopefully I can do that in the next couple of days. I didn't find anything blatantly scummy on Leonshade and I feel it's just a difference on playing philosophy, but I'll try to look deeper to confirm/deny my original thoughts on the subject.

Leonshade is going to take more thinking later, but I am not saying I am confident in the scumread on him, I only browsed the various posts against him and I still would need to make a better judgment.

These. Why these.

You aren't giving me information, you aren't telling me

why

you're completely ignoring how scummy Leon is being right now? Even if you don't think he's being scummy, tell me why.

[killerjester]

@KillerJester....obviously there was no "head" confusion. Now how would you explain the lie/double vote?

.. I got nothing for ya, boss O: I tried rationalizing it as a hydra mistake because I honestly don't see town

or

mafia reasons for voting twice and then lying about it. I can understand that townies don't lie, but why would a scum lie about something that blatantly obvious? It didn't make sense to me, and my brain said, "Could it be a mistake? Sure, let's go with that."

I am honest to God not sure how to explain it now.

My reasons for suspicion on KillerJester was his bad voting habits. But right before I posted he made a scumcase on Leonshade which made my vote case look silly. Also I hadn't read the whole thread in detail looking for reads I was taking notes on the first things I noticed. When I went to go browse his ISO I found that he wasn't as scummy as I thought. A list of reads on everyone is not happening as there isn't enough content to make those reads on. That thing where you guys bounced Vifam for having that silly post was laughable. Reads on 24 odd people this early? They're about as inaccurate combined as a blind archer.

Were my voting patterns the only reason you saw me as scummy? I'm not saying all my reasons behind voting are 100% right. I'm saying when I have an opinion, I back up what I say with my vote. I'd love to hear your input on Leon though. Take some time and read the thread.

unrelated: did the site go down for like 1 minute?

Yes, it did.

[killerjester]

Leon is prob-town. At least he's done nothing that makes me think he's scum. killer's 'case' on him is stretching.

Not reading DavidX as scum, either.

Why. Why. Why.

Dear God. Do people want to give more input than, "KJ is being silly, he should just believe Leon is town like the rest of us."?

And Meransiel is just being a dick, not much good we can do besides asking for him to be replaced. Seriously though, why sign up for larges if you aren't even going to play? Kind of ruins the game for the rest of us..

[killerjester]

I re-read my Leon case, and actually I do see places where I'm trying to stretch my case to fit the initial scum-read I had on Leon. I can go back and pin-point these if anyone is truely curious, but is it too late to admit I'm wrong? D:

UNVOTE:

Junpei, you're being almost as stupid. Do you really think we have a jester here? Come on, jason's been here two years, you think he doesn't know how how much some people HATE jesters?

Yeah, Vifam, are you trying to get yourself lynched or something?

Has Jason gone and stuck a bloody jester in this game?

Cognitive dissonance from joking about jesters and then calling people stupid for talking about jesters. Probably caused by me (correctly) calling out his intent behind his first post (see I).

In other news... God help me, but I

completely

agree with this part of Pinky and the Brain's post.

VOTE: izakthegoomba

[killerjester]

Should I elaborate? izak's second instance, the one where he talks down on you for suggesting a jester possibility seems like he's over-compensating for his earlier mistake. That's what really rang the scum-dar in my head.

[killerjester]

I (as in 'myself') numbered (as in 'I, II, II...') the different parts of my case. I'm referring to Part I.

I can't find it...which post #?

I think he means #289.. he called it A, B, C etc though..

#417... In the spoiler tags.. "Hi I'm vollkan and DavidX, I don't know where the izak bandwagon came from, but I'm not gonna worry about it too much lawl."

[killerjester]

I'm a fan of "when in doubt, vig the lurker" as Vig; Vig has considerably more freedom here than the lynch does. Lurker hunting as the rest of the town really ruins the game.

In the best situation, the Mod replaces or at least prods the hell out of all lurkers, but generally the idea is if you aren't the Mod, aren't the Vig, and aren't a scum trying to set up a Vig claim..then just stay the hell away from lurkers. Meransiel isn't going to be lynched today, plain and simple. I bet anything he's aware of this, and that's why he won't stop lurking anything short of L-1 with someone showing willingness to drop the hammer. He's risking a hell of a lot for himself at N1 and in regards with the Mod, but that's his own prerogative as the rest of us really,

really

can't do anything to stop him.

[killerjester]

UNVOTE: Meransiel

Because there is other stuff bigger than Meran now.

Zinger, you just softclaimed Lyncher. I want proper info on your role.

FoS: Junpei

Zinger says it all.

Did you just ask for a roleclaim? I don't see the point in giving the mafia a bigger informational advantage than they already have.

My, my, I am pretty confident in my vote that's already on you. Speaking of, don't you have anything to say to the accusations on you? Anything at all?

[killerjester]

Just verifying, the tracker claim means nothing to you, Thad?

What's your read on izak, btw?

Actually yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Junpei still has a tracker claim pinned clearly on his pristine, tracker shirt. Why is Admiral voting for him again?

[killerjester]

Hmmm ... over 25 posts in many different games since he posted here.

And he's posted zero content yet affirmed that he is still in the game.

He needs Vigged / Copped / Some other solutioned N1.

Like with Meran, lurkers are really out of the day-lynching's hands. I like how you don't take the attitude of "lynch all lurkers!" It really is too conflicting for the town to hunt them and I feel splitting our efforts takes pressure off of other scummy players needlessly. Yea I'm buddying you here, but I've said this earlier too. And honestly I think anyone with their votes on lurkers could just be using an excuse to not have their vote elsewhere.

Well I'm not persuaded by that claim, and even if it's true, it's quite possibly a threat to the town.

VOTE: Zinger

Could you elaborate on this? Give me like a good, solid paragraph of your thoughts on Zinger's claim.

[killerjester]

I don't even care, fine I"ll get off my high horse, now will you post content and explain why you think it was a good idea for you to claim what you did?

I thought that if the mafia team believed I wasn't a threat to them I could fly under their radar while I either roleblock them (if I had a good idea of who they might be) or protect town players (if I didn't have a clue who might be scum).

I'm just a standard town Jailkeeper. It was all a fakeclaim. You can lynch me for lying now.

... You fakeclaimed needlessly because you were scared of a NK? I don't see why we should start believing you now, and I can totally get behind lynching you now.

VOTE: Zinger

[killerjester]

Well, Zinger lied. We can either take him for he's word that he's town (lawl) or we can hang him. Pretty easy choice in my opinion. And then if he is town, we'll leave a note by his deathbed saying, "Don't lie next time, it fucking hurts the town. It's been this way, it will always be this way. Don't mess with years of theory thinking you can waltz in and do 1-better." The rules are Town Never Lies for a reason. The reason is you.

[killerjester]

Generally you need to know all the rules before you start breaking them, at least that's my experience in the fine arts.

[killerjester]

1 and 2 aren't necessarily true. He does have a reason to help town (to avoid getting lynched or vigged) and his claimed ability isn't necessarily bad for town, if he's directed. Of course, it's impossible to tell (short of tracking him) whether he'd doing what we tell him to do, so it's not necessarily a good idea to keep him alive, but like... if I am mysteriously roleblocked tonight, I'm sure as hell going to be pushing for his lynch tomorrow, regardless of whether it was actually him that roleblocked me. It's actually in his best interests to work with town, because it doesn't really hinder his claimed win-con, and it means he's more likely to be kept alive.

Of course, that's assuming he's telling the truth about his role. Which I don't think he is. He's not scum, that much I'm confident about. If he is third party, I don't consider him a threat. There's the possibility he's town and this was some gambit he thought was a really smart idea, and considering it's Zinger, this is something I think is a very real possibility.

He did fakeclaim. Currently he claims town JK. That's why I switched from izak to him. Thoughts now that you know he lied about his role (gambit, if he is really town..I still don't believe him tbh)

[killerjester]

^ Drunk and he still cares! Now THAT'S dedication folks!

[killerjester]

3isFrench, Izak, Pappum,Cherve

^2 scum there.

I'd be more comfortable with pursuing those leads with a Zinger flip to back up the voting analysis. I don't think we could pull off a lynch on any of them today. Maybe tomorrow. Zinger has confirmed that he's lied for us, and really I don't know where to believe him at this point and where not to.

[killerjester]

zelinks play is terribly anti-town, no matter what his alignment is.

By all means, do elaborate.

[killerjester]

I am more than content with lynching Zinger today.

[killerjester]

On second thought, I'd be equally comfortable with either a Zinger lynch or izak lynch today. Zinger moreso out of policy and izak moreso out of I think he's scum. Never before have I seen such a large "Words used" to "Things actually said" ratio. Here were my general thoughts reading over it.

- Alright, he wants Zinger lynched. I agree with that.
- He dismisses Junpei, keeping his thoughts to himself.
- Claiming his jester mistake as a joke.
- He voted Meransiel for reasons he's keeping to himself, basically saying "I voted for him because I voted for him"
- Claims he can provide scum reads, also keeps them to himself.
- Claims we should be satisfied with what little info he's given us.

Overall, I got the feeling izak's

noooooottttt really

trying to scumhunt. At least to me it felt like he's content with lynching Zinger today, and that's grounds for not scumhunting the rest of the day. Since he wouldn't want to lynch anyone else, there must be no point. I'd looove thoughts on izak, guys. I still believe Zinger is a wonderful lynch today, and his flip would give me some insight on izak. But I felt this point was note-worthy and definitely worth bringing up.

[killerjester]

I think it's too early to determine his partners if he has any, I really can't tell you that, I need to analyze the situation more and it isn't something I can do before Zinger dies d1.

This. I don't like this post, it smells funny.

[killerjester]

I'm due for a heavy re-read as well. My opinion still holds that we should lynch either Zinger or izak today. If my opinion changes strongly or I find something interesting, I'll be sure to bring it up. If anyone's truly waiting on my every whim and word, then I'll let you know you can expect something from me tomorrow.

[killerjester]

Simply going to say this.

1. I'd rather me than zinger

Please explain this. Are you THAT convinced Zinger is town AND he's more beneficial to the town than he's been so far?

[killerjester]

I don't like silver's martyr behavior. Even if he is town, it doesn't feel more helpful than Zinger's gambit was.

[killerjester]

Does cj agree with your gambit? I don't want to spoil the surprise ending to your gambit, but I'd feel overall better about it if your other head is also down for it.

[killerjester]

I meant that as I want to know your reads, but not if it ruins your gambit when you tell me pre-lynch. Get cj's approval. I don't like you becoming a martyr, and I'm not going to go along with it on just your solo word.

[killerjester]

So you want to martyr for the sake of getting noticed. For some odd reason I'm not okay with this.

And I don't think you ever got around to answering my question about Zinger. Since you're willing to die in his stead, that almost implies that not only you think he's town, but that he can help us even more than you can if he's alive and you aren't. Given his bad gambit, I can't see that happening. Can you let me in on your thoughts about Zinger? Don't hold back, I'd like to know your full opinion.

[killerjester]

..Yea I'm not content with lynching you. I feel you'll be directing the kills too much and the margin for error is pretty high.

[killerjester]

I don't see silverdrummer as scum.

I felt the same way. Assuming he was, he'd be taking the gambit that we don't agree with his plan and conclude to not lynch him. I'm not saying scum

can't

take this gambit, just that in my opinion a scum wouldn't want to. But I also don't agree with silver directing kills. He appears to think his role is worthless, and I think he's over-confident in his reads. He can make his point just fine without becoming a martyr. I just think if he does martyr for the cause, the town will feel more-compelled than they normally should to listen to him. If we make the norm to agree with silver, I think finding scum would become harder.

[killerjester]

Hi I'm killerjester with strep throat. My life's been pretty full with antibiotics, lots of lying on my couch, and not making out with pretty girls.

The only objection I have to lynching Zinger is that I don't think it's going to derive a lot of information for town. To me, the first lynch is usually an information lynch that has the potential to catch scum but is not all that likely to do so. The reactions surrounding Zinger's bizarre and unhelpful play are pretty uniform across the board. Some argue that Zinger is town, some argue that he's scum or unpleasant third party, but everyone generally reacted as if Zinger showed up drunk to the dance recital and started throwing up in front of the stage. And I think that's a fair reaction. It just doesn't give town as much information and highlights the anti-town nature of Zinger's play. That said, I still want to lynch him.

I really don't like this bit. It feels like you're giving everyone a free pass to vote Zinger, because there's no way we'll catch them for hopping on the bandwagon alone. If there

was

a way to analyze the votes, you're making that bit harder. I guess what I'm saying is your objection hurts the town more than it helps, so why are you saying it? Especially when you think Zinger is an anti-town third party (or scum, at second best), why would you have ANY objections to lynching him?

[killerjester]

Look at it this way. The first day has dragged on for fifty+ pages. I personally think we would derive more information from a different lynch and I have pointed out who I wanted to lynch. In a perfect world, I would be pushing Rodion's lynch for the reasons I've already stated. I'd be asking him to explain himself. I'd be taking up some pages to give more information to town.

I can't do that because FIFTY pages is far too much. I know this for sure. I just read it over TWICE. I'm still sure I missed things; how much worse would it be for the next replacement when Day One goes to seventy, eighty, one hundred pages long?

I'm not sure if we could do a VCA, it was more of a hypothetical.. we'll find out what arguments have merit tomorrow, but I was digging for an answer around these lines. And got it. I still do want Zinger lynched today. I'll be looking towards anyone who tries to fall back on your objection if we find them suspicious for voting Zinger. That's all.

and @shotty, his latest claim is town JK, but he has claimed third-party JK before that (and a joke claim for town doc)

[killerjester]

VoTe sIlvEr

It'S tHe obVioUs lyNch foR toDaY.

WhO Not TO LynCh

RainbOwdash/sLatE/CrOpPy
MoI

Can you...not do that?

Anyway

...

VOTE: Nero
Same as yesterday.

I don't like this post. Yes the case on him exists, and it's very merit-able. But I'd consider voting him for this bit alone. Considering how suspicious everyone finds him, I feel he's harboring his vote by placing it on Nero. With the classic, "Just following my D1 play!" as his sole excuse.

[killerjester]

Why do you single out Silver?

ThAdmiral doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3306413

Hiplop doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3306566

Rodion doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3306594

Leonshade picking up on his list from yesterday
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3306984

Pappums post has nothing to do with Chevre, but votes her from voting her day 1
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3307108

drmyshotty doing it
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3309514

The only people with reasoning behind votes (well, new reasoning presented today) is Rainbowdash and Castle Bravo.

I felt, following his play all game, his was the most condemning. Why are you discrediting silver's wagon so hard?

[killerjester]

Killerjester your post strikes me as the following:

I proved your point wrong
You then said that for some unclaimed reason, Silver's action was scummier than the rest or that since silver had pressure his was the only one worth talking about.
This means that you NOTICED that others were doing this and still decided to only post silver's
This shows that you were intentionally making silver look worse than he is
This shows conflict of interest (not trying to lynch scum just trying to lynch silver who may or may not be scum)
Then spins post to say that I am discrediting the wagon.

I am not discrediting the wagon I am discrediting what you said. Not all those posts were on the same person.

Do you not see why silver is scummier than the rest of the people who's strategy he sheeped?

[killerjester]

Where did silver claim VT? I don't think he ever did that.

He might as well have. His martyr gambit on D1 was something I can only see a VT or anti-town doing. I sincerely doubt a town PR would have said, "Lynch me over Zinger!"

[killerjester]

I think town-silver would have gotten more and more adamant about his martyr suggestion as the Zinger wagon progressed, and literally be typing in ALL CAPS at L-1 before the hammer dropped. The whole part where he just puts the idea out there but never really follows up on it leads me to believe it's a likely scum gambit. That's why my vote is on him, at least. I evaluated the situation clearly, and simply felt that beating the dead horse doesn't really help anyone.

So yea Junpei, I could have explained my vote a little better. But I didn't. So shoot me (vig humor, lol. Don't take this seriously, Zelink.)

[killerjester]

killer also basically parrots while pretending he came to the conclusion on his own. Also states he doesn't like beating a dead horse.. which is what I did with pine... eh...

This. THIS IS WHY I DON'T EXPLAIN MYSELF WHEN THE REASONS ARE OBVIOUS.

You either get "Why didn't you explain yourself?!" or "Yea well everyone's already said that." Unless you do it the killerjester way. Then you get both, and want to throw your face into a wall.

/rant, I'm going to sleep

[killerjester]

2. - Shotty (His posts... especially him claiming it's a scum gambit when

I've done the nearly same exact gambit in previous game with him and flipping VT

) - Everybody whose saying, oh he was quiet when the zinger wagon picked up... especially for the people who bitched about me being outspoken and repetitive in the first place, and really just seems like a pretty crap excuse to pick up the steam on my wagon again) This includes Rod who simply parrots the original one which is Pinky, and Jester is in there somewhere I think but I forget where now and am too lazy to find it (though I might be slightly wrong as to if they were bitching... maybe that was chk... upon which case throw Pinky into 4th, rod stays where he's at)

Sorry for getting frustrated last night. I'm willing to buy your VT claim pending a link to the bolded game.

[killerjester]

-Killer
It's all good, but do please answer my question

What's changed from D1?

(also it being originally at that point not now currently)

Maybe it was a longshot, but you just seemed overconfident that Zinger was town on D1. Not really anything worth delving too far into before his flip. My thought process went something like, "How could a VT be

THAT SURE

Zinger was a townie? So far as to throw up his own life for it." The fact that you've done this before makes it a little more reasonable. Nothing I'd lynch you over today at least.

UNVOTE:

Andrew screams scumminess, I'll probably vote him in a few hours. I've just ignored the entire neighbourizer thing and want to understand it a bit better. So for anyone who cares, you can expect my vote later, but still today.

[killerjester]

Can both players show me the breadcrumbs on who they targeted in case they died overnight?

(I can't take credit for this joke buuuuut) I never knew you were a fisherman.

[killerjester]

Just to point out, in post 1587 killerjester unvotes when he had no vote up to begin with. Could mean a lot of things, just pointing it out for others to see in case they missed it.

Uh yup, just now I noticed I forgot to vote silver in #1526. That's what I get for not sleeping enough

[killerjester]

-Killer
I apologize for being repetitive but you are missing the point of the question. You stated this early this day.

Considering how suspicious everyone finds him, I feel he's harboring his vote by placing it on Nero. With the classic, "Just following my D1 play!" as his sole excuse.

and I have asked, What's changed from D1? in post 1569 Please ignore everything further that has happened today when answering this.

Asked and answered. Is there anything you need me to explain further?

I'm gonna take a look at andrews iso... I'd still heavily prefer Nero but I'll look into andrew tomorrow and see if I think he's playing his typical "self" or not.

Nero isn't going to be lynched today. The chance that we have two town neighborizers is quite low, in my opinion. One of them should be lynched today.

Izak are MoI are the neighbor recruits, right? MoI's talked plenty, but I want to hear something from this end..

@MoI well, now that you've outed him, I can totally see what you mean. I am still leaning towards silver more, but is there anything in particular that makes Andrew very scummy?

HEY MOAI I AGREE THAT ANDREW IS SCUMMY

WHY IS HE SCUMMY THOUGH

/fence-sit


izak, scum-reads please, pronto.

~ Hoppster
(spoilers, duh)

And also, there's that whole ordeal where andrew's being a dodgy little neighborizer and not sharing why he recruited MoI.

VOTE: Andrew

[killerjester]

I agree with ZeL1nK. In that silver is town, silver's wrong about Nero, and there's no reason to rolefish the vig yet. I don't agree on izak or andrew though. In that I think izak is town and andrew is scum.

[killerjester]

You want ZeL1nK to give out more information than he has to AND the protective role to come out and confirm he's telling the truth?

For what? Two mostly-confirmed town?

[killerjester]

I've looked over this again, and with MoI's info, I think that andrew is scummier than silver.

VOTE: andrew

I find this post scummy as he just says "yeah I agree, VOTE".

And then you remember he's a neighbor. He looked at MoI's point of view, and he sees andrew in the same light. What else SHOULD he say?

I find it scummy to pick on such an easy target.

[killerjester]

Ahem. I forgot that easy targets are always town targets and that I should only ever "pick on" hard targets. Don't be ludicrous.

Izak should have at least said a couple sentences of how/why it changed his opinion on the matter. He never went into detail on his silver read pretty much agreeing with what others said. So this would have been a great time to state his opinion on BOTH lynches.

I'm not saying he's conftown because he's such an easy target. I'm saying you should ask for his couple sentences instead of labeling him scummy and dismissing him. At the end of the day, it's the only way to be fairly accurate. Afterall, he gave his scum read when we asked him for it. I'm pretty confident he'll do the same for anything you ask him.

[killerjester]

MoI isn't even a neighborizer, but I also don't think he's scum.

[killerjester]

No No No your misinterpreting my question, What I quoted from you is saying you found it suspicious that after Day 1 I resume my campaign for a Nero lynch and throw my vote on him once more or as you put it "I feel he's harboring his vote by placing it on Nero. With the classic, "Just following my D1 play!" as his sole excuse." So what happened up to that point that could have changed my mind?

I don't think I understand the question. I'm supposed to give you a better alternative to voting Nero because of something that's changed? I'm not saying your case on Nero doesn't have merit..actually I am, just a little bit. I can't speak for everyone but I don't really see why you jumped on him so hard allllll the way back at D1. I don't like how you aren't 1. Trying very hard to get followers on your Nero case or 2. Moving your vote to a better wagon. You put your vote on Nero, sure, but you never really followed up on your idea. In fact, you barely mention him at all D2. It may make

perfect

sense in your mind, but you don't really help the town when you can't explain yourself to a convincing degree.

When you put your vote on Nero, it felt like you were saying, "Everyone should know why my vote is here," and that you didn't feel obligated to convince the other players. That's what I meant by harboring your vote. It was essentially worthless.

[killerjester]

Ah, I think I slipped up. After MoI claimed to be a recruited neighbor and there were two neighborizers I assumed the second recruit also made himself known. Then I thought this post sounded like izak and MoI were talking in a QT, and he was voicing his opinion of the case MoI shared in the thread. Looking back, I can see how inconclusive it was. The second recruit hasn't claimed yet.

Just as Zinger was an idiot and lied about his role, I feel silver's also being an idiot, considering he's done this before. There's not a lot of reason for scum-silver to throw up a martyr gambit. Zinger wasn't scum, but silver's not right either.

[killerjester]

He felt his was the MOST condemning. That means that he knew of the six other cases and still decided not to point them out. The reason was to lynch silver, to make silver look worse than he is. I think silver is scum, I think we should lynch silver, but that is beside the point. Killerjester hid information intentionally to make his target lynch look good. This makes me less suspect Silver but given the possibility of more than 2 factions perhaps not so much.

I did not misrepresent Silver's actions in any way.

[killerjester]

In comparison to everyone else's actions yes you did. You made it seem like he was the only one doing it which would bring emphasis to the tell, whereas if you had said that seven people had been doing it then it wouldn't look like such a cool little scumtell.

I never said he was the only one doing it. Every point I mentioned was valid. The fact that other players were doing it too doesn't make it any less of a scumtell.

[killerjester]

ugh surely I'm not the only one who gets this, David? Silver? Anyone?

If at least one other person agrees I was attempting to "hide information" in my "propaganda" against silver in this post then I'll take you seriously.

You're stretching at best, and I don't see why.

[killerjester]

Junpei is town

[killerjester]

Hmm.. I must admit I overlooked that. That's.. a very good catch. KJ, can you define your stance on Silver? In honesty, in my fatigued state, I'm seeing you both saying that Town Silver wouldn't do this, and that Town Silver would do this because he's done it before.. humour me and clarify please.

*If the English doesn't make sense, read it in Yoda's voice and pretend it was funny, or send me caffiene.

I was leaning scum on silver at #1526, the post where I forgot to vote him. I still was leaning scum in #1561, where I still believe I have my vote on him..a little embarrassing. Then he [silver] links to his meta where he demonstrates he believes his life as a VT is worthless. That changed my mind, in the sense that after that link I found it more believable he truly is a VT with his senseless martyr gambit. I state in #1587, that my opinion has changed and I think silver is likely town. I also "unvote" there, even though I had forgotten to put my vote on silver in the first place.

Does that clarify everything?

[killerjester]

I was honest when I said I'd take it seriously if even one other person agreed with Junpei

[killerjester]

Ugh, sorry for double post, but isn't it obvious that out of 23 people at least 1 person will agree with me? It seems silly to make us wait for a serious response.

What do you want me to tell

you

? You seem to think my failure to point out each and every case of D1 followup is evidence that I was trying to cover it up. Whereas my opinion is the information was common knowledge and I didn't have to point out other people were doing it too. We disagree. It happens. So I'm done trying to convince you.

[killerjester]

@DX/KJ/silver - Can you guys weigh in on the Peregrine/Oversoul things I have posted as well?

I can definitely see merit in your Oversoul case. He's been active lurking, not scum-hunting, and if I'm not mistaken..some pretty heavy fence sitting as well.

I was waiting on a reaction from Andrew before doing anything else. So

FoS

Oversoul pretty hard. I'll need some time to mull over Peregrine, as his tells aren't so black in white. This this the case on him you were referring to?

[killerjester]

EBWOP:

@DX/KJ/silver - Can you guys weigh in on the Peregrine/Oversoul things I have posted as well?

I can definitely see merit in your Oversoul case. He's been active lurking, not scum-hunting, and if I'm not mistaken..some pretty heavy fence sitting as well.

I was waiting on a reaction from Andrew before doing anything else. So

FoS

Oversoul pretty hard. I'll need some time to mull over Peregrine, as his tells aren't so black

and

white.

Is

this the case on him you were referring to?

I'm butchering my grammar, sure signs I'm tired. Fixed it in bold though. KJ signing out for the night.

[killerjester]

Dispersing our votes over 9 different players ultimately accomplishes nothing. I think Andrew and Oversoul are both meritable wagons, and Oversoul...well he's V/LA I guess. Rest assured, I'm saving my flak for him when he returns.

So let's get down to brass tacks. Who is strongly opposed to an andrew lynch? And why?

[killerjester]

To everyone on the Andrew wagon: Do you think silver is more than mildly scummy?

No.

Do you think that Zinger's flip gave you insight on izak? If so, what insight did you gain?

Guess who just got major townpoints! Thiiiiiiis guy!

I was a little put off by how izak parked his vote on Zinger for the day. From Zinger's flip, I don't think I got as much insight on izak as I'd have hoped.

My post was equally made to see who would bring the topic up later. But here's the answer you were looking for. I don't think izak is scum.

[killerjester]

Shotty you seem a little on the fence about this idea. I wish you'd be more clear.

[killerjester]

It does warrant an explanation. It doesn't influence my scumread on Andrew one bit.

You have a certain knack for derailing wagons, don't you Junpei?

[killerjester]

I think it's more realistic to ask for his scumreads (and explanations), maybe any strong townreads (and explanations), and any highlights that sparked his "Oh hey! I should mention this!" meter.

Dude's just read 80 pages. Personally I'm not expecting a dissertation.

[killerjester]

Funny. I'd argue that the silver wagon is the one punishing BaM play (with regards to the martyr thing and all) and that the andrew wagon is the one to lynch scum neighborizer. That could be just me though.

[killerjester]

Jeffery Donovan is an amazing actor! /fangirl

How do you know your action was redirected?

ninja'd by Junpei

[killerjester]

Well ZeL1nK sure as fuck didn't shoot our cop. If he was shot at, it was from the scum.

[killerjester]

Shotty, we also need the results of your night action.

[killerjester]

Actually the whole day cop thing makes sense. You didn't jump on andrew until we were well into D2.

[killerjester]

KJ why are you so convinced that Ze1 is a vig? Vig is a very common SK claim.

Meh, it was more the thought process of "Hypothetical vig wouldn't kill shotty."

Ze1 was the name to my hypothetical vig.

[killerjester]

He said he can use each action a maximum of 4 times.

I'm against a full claim until we get MoI's QT results.

[killerjester]

P-Edit again: Could he really be guilty and that line just be part of your role flavour?

Still want Oversoul to answer this. How sure are you that your action was redirected?

Junpei we need your tracker results.

[killerjester]

Why did you choose Pappums for your guard?

[killerjester]

On that note, I'm beginning to think I'm very, very wrong in my izak-scum read. I need to evaluate some things.

I'm looking for a follow-up on this regard. I haven't been tripping over myself to defend izak but he has given me a town vibe and I'd like to hear from the perspective of someone who agrees with me. In fact, I think scum-andrew saying that izak is town almost certainly means izak is town.

[killerjester]

You just said Pappums was a likely 3rd party.

[killerjester]

Haha why is MoI confirmed in your eyes if I'm not?

You're either town telling the truth (which means MoI is clean), scum telling the truth for town points (which means MoI is clean), or scum lying about an investigation to "clear" a partner. I sincerely doubt you're both scum, especially since you'd be rather fucked if we DID lynch MoI and he was anything BUT a VT.

Oversoul has also claimed JOAT, and a notably weaker JOAT at that.

All seriousness aside, we should probably lynch Bravo.

[killerjester]

Actually...hmmmm..

Fence sitting between Bravo and this

VOTE: Oversoul

It worked with the neighborizers, it'll work with the JOATs. Oversoul is the scummier of the two. Who knows, maybe DMSIS really IS Spartacus.

[killerjester]

chkballin earn town points for saying what I was thinking.

Bravo is vig bait

[killerjester]

chkballin has earned a new achievement! "Minesweeper"!

In other news Rodion is still scum.

[killerjester]

Jester, how am I fencesitting?

You aren't. I was fencesitting between you and Bravo.

[killerjester]

MOD:
CASTLE BRAVO HAS OUTRIGHT CLAIMED MAFIA GOON, IF HIS CLAIM IS TRUTHFUL HE IS PLAYING AGAINST HIS WIN CONDITION...
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR STANCE ON THIS...

Btw Bravo, you aren't an obvscum read anymore- you are just an anti-town read. AH... thanks okay so no jesters- just Castle and a fake claim, or a truthful claim probably with a pending modkill....

Next breaking strategy - Everyone mass claims scum. The ones who aren't modkilled are town.

[killerjester]

Alright. Votes on Oversoul nowplz. Rodion is an acceptable alternative.

[killerjester]

You changed your tracker JOAT ability to a watcher ability. A JOAT would know which powers he has and not make this mistake.

I was right first! Or at least almost-first. /gloat

[killerjester]

Why the AtE instead of clearing up which one you actually meant?

[killerjester]

Oh shoot did Bravo just put his srs face on?

[killerjester]

Actually I've had a change of heart. For some reason I think Castle Bravo must have some heightened sense of what the fuck he's doing. I say we give him some more rope and see where he runs with it.

VOTE: Bravo

[killerjester]

If we're lynching CB, shotty shouldn't fullclaim. Sit down Rodion, you Italian fisherman you!

[killerjester]

Beyond finding the mafia neighborizer (null tell), he's also pointed out 3 VTs that no one seems to be denying (town tell). He should full claim if he's being lynched, but I'm satisfied with the work he's done so far.

[killerjester]

You find CB scummish with a possibility of town SS and yet you want the vig to take him out? At least with voting we have the voting analysis to go through. And we have a chance of scum or a VT taking the hammer. Vig taking out the bomb at night is the dumbest idea I've ever heard someone suggest.

[killerjester]

It's D3, how do you expect the mafia to come up with 3 VTs by now? A JOAT makes more sense.

[killerjester]

You think a mafia day rolecop is likely?

[killerjester]

Oh, my bad. So we don't lose the vig if CB is NK'd.

@Rodion, there are drawbacks to his actions beside the rolecop action.

[killerjester]

I trust all town players to use their abilities optimally.

[killerjester]

I find simple answers are best. For instance..

Having VI players full claim because we think we can play their role better than they can is just silly. Shotty's only play I don't agree with is having Pappums take a bullet. I think pushing the andrew lynch with claiming was a good idea, as he had already left enough breadcrumbs to be at least for a scum NK. Outting the VT players does put the PR pool at risk, but it also allows me to put more confidence into Shotty's claim. Any scum could name 3 pro-town players.

[killerjester]

Don't claim.

[killerjester]

BRB when people start making sense

[killerjester]

So wait, did you guys really want Oversoul to full-claim? Cos he already did.

I'm ending this VOTE: Oversoul

[killerjester]

Shotty shouldn't full claim, I've already expressed this. You sissies needed me to end the day.

[killerjester]

Because his abilities work better if we don't show scum the hand we're playing with.

I think the only one who

didn't

have the chance to pop up and and say "Oh hey, I redirected that!" was izak anyway.

If Oversoul flips miller JOAT then a protective role should save izak tonight so we can figure out who he got a scumvestigation on.

[killerjester]

VOTE: CB
Guess who's hungover?

[killerjester]

YES I COUNTED RIGHT!

Who's hammering?

[killerjester]

DMSIS's alarmist invention hints at the existence of a cult, right?

[killerjester]

Since this is a theme game, it's reasonable to believe DMSIS got back the full role name of his investigations.

We still need some people to get in here before we hammer CB. For instance, Junpei and his tracker result.

[killerjester]

Wait, people think GI is... town acting scummy so that... scum will hammer him?

Or...?

I want to hammer, just because it makes me feel like a big man.

He's either playing to the best of his win condition given his role, in which case we lynch him.

Or anti-town trying to do..whatever. In which case we lynch him.

[killerjester]

I think Meransiel should hammer

[killerjester]

Yeah, If someone refuses to hammer they become the D4 lynch.

[killerjester]

God, izak is so town it almost hurts.

[killerjester]

Yes.

[killerjester]

He's also volunteered to hammer CB.

[killerjester]

Eh, I feel useful claiming here. My name is Michael Guerin and I am the town's Goon Cop.

Izak, Mysterio, and fourseen are

not

vanilla goons, respectively investigated on nights 1, 2, and 3. That's all I know.

4] Do not quote any private mod/player communications. Do not pretend to quote private mod/player communications. Doing so will result in a modkill. Be careful how you word your claim, coming too close to role PM will result in a Mod Kill.

Lastly, I think that's how shotty should die btw.

[killerjester]

So, if any of us are scum, we're PRs? What an odd role. Anyways, since I don't think killer is scum, I believe that claim.

Correct, I don't detect scum PRs or any town roles. I'm essentially a weaker cop.

[killerjester]

Meh, if I die then my role is useless to everyone. It's not that strong of a role anyway. That's why I claimed.

[killerjester]

KJ > You have three results still living, that's actually pretty good for us.

Exactly. My useful to the town drops when my results start dying, and disappears completely when I get NK'd without outting my investigations. Since the town was talking about izak or fourseen hammering what might be a super-saint, this felt like a good time to share what I know.

I think izak is town because I can't see a scum PR exactly jumping at the opportunity to grab a hammer.

[killerjester]

UNVOTE:

The deadline is September 10th. Junpei is V/LA until only August 27th.

We are

not

ending the day without his tracker result.

[killerjester]

Bah!

And @Mod you got the blue lines mixed up. The first paragraph describes Junpei and the picture is Junpei's

I'm the white guy

mod: HAHA Yea, sorry. fixed

[killerjester]

LONG GAME IS LONG

WHY DID I EVER PLAY A GAME WITH THIS MANY PEOPLE