Open 193 - Friends and Enemies: It's over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Just a reminder, this is the correct setup:

* 3 Mafia
* 3 Masons
* 6 Townies

[Albert B. Rampage]

Or simply because that's not what we signed up for.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm equally confirmed. So, Zorblag, how is it that you promised the Head that you would be joining his game? I couldn't miss my chance to play with you again.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Good to have you, 3xD.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Confirmator: Salvation

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: VP Baltar

...Vi is a he.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Lay off on the drugs VP Baltar.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I will bonk you on the head and drag you kicking and screaming to rehab with britney if I have to.

[Albert B. Rampage]

There's nothing for me to comment on until the two are willing to bet their life that the other is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Choose sides.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Scien's initial comment was unreflective at best. Vi has since defended himself accordingly, but the vote for his aggressor is insubstantial and lacks conviction.

Do I have to remind you all that I am Albert B. Rampage? To make me state the obvious is to waste my time.

Druglord Baltar has a nice and cozy cocaina cache for us to drop our votes at.

Oblige him.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Druglord Baltar has a nice and cozy cocaina cache for us to drop our votes at.

IN HIS ASS.

Yep yep vote this useless druggie.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I expect from people who I respect as players and are experienced. If I see variances from that, expect me to call him/her on it.

Am I the best scumhunter alive? Yes. Do I suffer fools like you? No.

Unvote

In the interest of preserving the masons identity, I'm issuing a warning against calling the team, like what VP Baitar is doing. Rather than looking for connections between players, it's much more advantageous to look for individual scumminess to base our votes on.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ah what the hell.

Vote VPB

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hey guys, unrelated but important question: if you were a horde race in world of warcraft, which one would you be? Orc, Tauren, Troll, Undead, Goblin, Elf, Dragon, Ogre? Please answer!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah I hate making useless posts so just pick one lol

You taking blood elf Sando?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ya if you were a character in WoW what would your race be. I'm writing a short story and I have 11 characters who are based on your personalities.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh and for Zorblag, jungle troll or forest troll?

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's very simple. VPB attacked me based on nothing, so I give him a taste of his own medicine. My personal policy is that any bandwagon is a good one. The first bandwagon can be based on nothing more than a directionless

[Albert B. Rampage]

hunch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

O.K. someone is over and I have more than my hands can handle atm, but basically what I mean is this: VPB attacks me with nothing (scien and abr are scum!) and I just return the same favor, so I don't see what the deal is here.

[Albert B. Rampage]

My personal policy is that any bandwagon is a good one.

Is

every

bandwagon a good one?

What a weird question. I said any. It's a good starting point.

Let's see who people think is town or scum, and then we form relationships between players, and then we push the bandwagons closer, maybe see a claim, and then we go through with it or not.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Here we go: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... ame_Moving

By yours truly.

[Albert B. Rampage]

At the time, we already had the makings of a nice little pressure wagon on Scien, though. What was wrong with that one, if you wanted to help "get the game moving"?

If we don't discriminate in our actions, we are acting no better than at random.

[Albert B. Rampage]

FOS

Charlie for implying that we should all just bandwagon the first person that gets some votes. If we did that, the mafia would have total control of the game.

I find VPB unhelpful and more of a eyesore than anything else, so I won't be missing him once he's gone. Scien hasn't done anything to bother me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If we don't discriminate in our actions, we are acting no better than at random.

My personal policy is that any bandwagon is a good one.

Lynch this scum now please.

My personal policy is that any bandwagon is a good one.

Is

every

bandwagon a good one?

Any bandwagon will lead to pro-town content

if

it's not pushed randomly. If it's random we're still in the RVS and there's no data to be gleaned. But if there's

intention

behind the bandwagon then we can dissect that.

See, it's rubbish comments like that one from VP that I don't like. He's not bitching about a lack of content, he's making a specific accusation against you. His argument said you are hypocritical for attacking someone for only having a gut reason when you yourself have used mostly gut so far to come to your reads. This is scumhunting, or what passes for it early on D1.

You also invoked lynch all liars for what barely passed for a 'lie', you were surprised Albert was touchy when being accused of scum, alluded to meta reasons for suspecting Albert but produced none when asked, Didn't join the Albert wagon until there was someone else on it.

So yep, you're the scummiest person around at the moment, just on the usual D1 straws.

QFT

Ojanen - no votes yet?

I have a random based vote on Vi. No ping has felt significant enough to change and improve the accuracy.

VP, my problem with you is that at first you implied meta from ABR that was contradictory to what I (and several others seem to) have; when asked to provide this you said it was more because

Everyone plays differently, of course, but there is a certain standard of play I expect from people who I respect as players and are experienced. If I see variances from that, expect me to call him/her on it.

which picked my bs-rhetorics-o-meter. What does the "standard of play" actually mean, seems empty. Makes me think of "deviant=scummy" (don't like).

QFT

I don't believe I've seen ABR so touchy before.

That comment does not speak to something that would be meta exclusive to ABR, nor was it drawn from a specific point in any single game.

Shenanigans. You are claiming that you can take an abstract of how a good player should act and use that as a standard about how you have 'seen player X act in the past'? You most definitely

were

implying meta specific to ABR there.

Again, QFT

Wow VPB, you're so delusional, it's almost comical. I don't expect you to agree with me though, as you're personally invested.

The LAL thing made me laugh though, good to see VPB has decided to ignore that.

And QFT as well.

A note of general interest:

The following players have enough experience with me to have a solid meta:

Zorblag
Ojanen

Players who have had extensive contact with me but in less than 3 games:

Charlatan
SerialClergyman

Players who really have no idea what my meta is:

Sando
VP Baltar
Scien
Amished
PorkchopExpress
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Vi

FOS

Charlie for implying that we should all just bandwagon the first person that gets some votes. If we did that, the mafia would have total control of the game.

That's not what I implied at all. If anything,

you

suggested that with the assertion that all bandwagons are good ones. If you actually just wanted to run up a bandwagon on someone and it didn't matter who it was, you would have contributed to the already existing bandwagon. Obviously, we do not play in a vacuum. Obviously, you had a reason for wanting a new bandwagon on VP. Obviously, you should be able to provide that reasoning. For whatever reason, you still do not, which is a problem.

Look at the beginning of my post to see what I mean. Also, I find VPB's bulldog attacks very scummy indeed. Not only does he pull nonsense out of his ass, he actually tries to defend them as valid arguments.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Zorblag can definitely attest to how reluctant I am to provide reasoning when asked. I say what I mean and mean what I say when I think it's the time for me to say it. What do you think of VPB's rising scumminess?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why did you ask Zorblag over Ojanen, ABR?

Because I remember several specific instances of it with Zorblag, whereas with Ojanen, she often replaced me or replaced in after I was NK'd so I don't have a strong recollection of her presence in those specific instances. So Ojanen has a very good read on me but I don't recall the specific instances where she was in the game and I demonstrated the aforementioned behavior.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I find VPB unhelpful and more of a eyesore than anything else, so I won't be missing him once he's gone. Scien hasn't done anything to bother me.

That's strange. The first post where you said anything about VP Baltar being

scummy

(225) came after this one.

When did VP Baltar stop becoming a lynch of convenience and start becoming the scumlynch that you're pushing now?

(I'm sure the English there is poor but etc.)

As of post 223 I was still on page 8 of the game.

find VPB's bulldog attacks very scummy indeed. Not only does he pull nonsense out of his ass, he actually tries to defend them as valid arguments.

So you think being aggressive is a scumtell?

You're not aggressive at all (neither am I at the moment). You're just being stupid and scummy. A town or mason wouldn't try to lynch me based on a bad judgment call, and then claim it to be for meta / game experience reasons.

Also, I haven't heard you actually address much of anything I've said about you, but rather you seem content to let others defend you. Which arguments are "out of my ass"?

The great thing about being in an invitational game with good players is obviously that they will make good points. This means less headbutting and more agreeing. Rather than making the same points and pawning them as my own, IOW plagiarizing, I am content with quoting the players that share my thoughts, which are rather self-evident imo.

[Albert B. Rampage]

charlatan, however, did not. I also am NOT loving the 'arguments are contrived on both sides, I'm prepared to vote on either' from him either. Charlatan jumps striaght into the number two scummy position.

QFT

[Albert B. Rampage]

What is there related to your vote of me lol

[Albert B. Rampage]

We should wait for charlatan to confirm his stance and defend himself or change his mind about "both sides having bad reasoning". Don't you think he deserves a chance?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why

[Albert B. Rampage]

That doesn't even make no sense Amished. That's just pure hate right there.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's not just that point, it's also calling out vp for denying mentioning lal when that was an obvious communication error and not a scum tell.

Since when do you lay off voting someone in deference to a possible defence? Get loose baby.

How is it a communication error? Can we call it a memory lapse instead?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh, I understand now. I just find the way he latches on to me pretty scummy. If he drops his ridiculous accusations I'll probably explore new avenues of discussion too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VPB you really need to change your playstyle because being a poor man's version of myself just doesn't cut it. But I exaggerated how scummy I thought you actually were to see how you would react under more pressure.

Unvote, vote charlatan

This wagon is promising.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR: It was due to the start of the VP wagon (like I mentioned). That particular instance looked scummy as hell from somewhere; and you and SC were the two that were involved. Since I'm getting a better read on SC now, that leaves you that really .. tripped my trigger? in that instance.

from SOMEWHERE? What a lazy bum, I can't stand this guy!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Listen up. I'm going to go hide under Ojanen's skirt or Zorblag's bridge until you people make up your MIND about why your vote is on me.

I'm going to be completely honest: my early Day 1 play is to basically carry a chip on my shoulder. So if you're a townie or a mason, or even scum, you should get the hell out of my crossfire until you have ice solid evidence to mislynch me. You vote for me, I vote you back. As simple as that. You want to guarantee an extra useful bandwagon vote if the tables turn on you, be my guest. This is my early Day 1 play. Get used to it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Go back, find your somewhere, post it, and explain it. Hater.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's hard to put into words because it's hard to imagine why you would think that I'm scum besides the fact that you're hating on me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's because I don't actually think VPB's role is as scummy as his strategy is stupid. You would know this if you read the thread.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Actually, I have a lot of respect for you as a player and you're pretty much the only one that I actively looked for finished games to read and try to pattern my game around you; but not exactly cause I didn't (and still don't) think I can pull off about half the stuff you can. Hate has nothing to do with it.

Your respect is severely misplaced. I used to burn ants when I was young.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Does a stupid strategy really warrant a vote?

In a nutshell, no. But rather than look for little scummy intricacies to base a vote on, I just skip the pleasantries and go right into OMGUS. Think of it as my counter-strategy or insect repellent.

I'm kinda bummed about my attitude from the start of this game. It might have something to do with the timing of my post-writing colliding with real life colliding with problems trying to sneak their way into the aforementioned real life.

Don't get any ideas because I'm not excusing myself. I find my play absolutely defensible and relatively coherent (for me) so far.

If your vote isn't based on hate, I don't know what it is based on because VPB's bandwagon vote echo mine to a fault. Why are you choosing to vote me over VPB when we have done the same thing? Why is charlie opting for the same choice? Maybe you have double standard issues, maybe you're trying something new, maybe you have bias, I really can't tell. I don't know.

But so far, I have 3 votes. One for a preposterous, untraceable meta claim, and two for double standards. So the sooner people refine their standards for voting, the sooner we can get to lynching non-ABR targets.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah, fair enough.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm happy with my charlatan vote. He always writes big paragraphs as town or scum, so don't let that deter you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Your contribution is noted.

I have this idea that you contribute more as scum than as town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Like Zorblag says, I'm not even settled in yet. I need more posting from Debonair Danny DiPietro and Porkchopexpress.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: SerialClergyman

.

First seeds of this are really in 176, in which he claims he has no "real reason" suspect VP, but in 187 suddenly does. (SC, did the points raised in 187 just occur to you between those two posts, or what?) The initial vote smacked of wanting to see a bandwagon form for the sake of a bandwagon, but again it became a serious thing later, only when he was pressed on it and when he was already touchy for being called out in regards to Sando. He starts diffusing his own argument around then, giving himself an out with a bit of talk of percentages and how he might be wrong.

So he basically pulled us out of the RVS LOL. Your case is so bad it looks like distancing my friend.

He's nowhere for 50 pages, then raises a point against me in 234. No vote, though. In 236, Ramp offers a stunning "QFT", and in 241 SC decides to go ahead and vote me, apparently at least in part to "avoid confirmation bias" against VP. When he finally tries to fully justify this vote in 291 (why did you wait that long, by the way, SC?) it's full of outright incorrect assertions. I am interested in the way that he and Ramp seem to give each other permission to proceed as well.

Point out the "incorrect assertions" so we know what we're talking about.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR - what is your read on Scien? (Of course there's a reason I'm asking.

I will love him more if he votes for charlatan.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Or anyone, really; if he backs it up. I just find the charlatan vote a good one, and one that wouldn't require as much original explanation as voting other players would.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote; Vote: Amished

Tosses a "content plz" vote on me without asking for any specific content which is weak; asking for generic content doesn't actually help the town at all. Additionally I'm a relatively easy target and his vote can immediatly be spun off as nothing more than a pressure/content vote. This is of course strange because he claims to already have a scum team in mind, but instead of pushing a wagon on one of them, he goes for the lurker? Scum.

This isn't a phenomenal insight or anything, but it's good posting.

FOS Amished

for calling the team. However, the lurker vote is understandable. His vote for me obviously wasn't solid enough to last any more than a couple pages.

1) I've lost too many games because of lurkers (either lynching them if they're pro-town or not if they're scum)

So you've lost too many games by lynching pro-town lurkers, so you begin to pressure and vote a pro-town lurker, okay that argument doesn't make any sense.

I'm going to go ahead and say that you've misread what Amished wrote so he doesn't waste time defending the moot points. What he said is that the town in his games failed to lynch the scum lurkers and went ahead and lynched the town lurkers. The thing with a lurker is that you have no idea what his alignment is because he doesn't post. I find the way you imply that everyone should just assume that you are pro-town suspicious.

FOS DDD

Top three suspects:

Charlatan
DDD
Amished

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm sure I'm not the first person to bring up the fact that Ramp's reputation is largely of his own creation

This is quite insulting, and yet amusing at the same time. Anyway, I have a fundamental advantage over you charlatan: I don't need as many words as you to communicate an idea.

So he basically pulled us out of the RVS LOL. Your case is so bad it looks like distancing my friend.

"Your case is bad", basically. Zorblag, what part of that shows that he's actively engaged and following along? Is it the "LOL"? And would this be an example of him "impacting the game in a way that helps players get reads?" (313).

If you stretch out my post to extract the meaning of it:

Vote: SerialClergyman

.

First seeds of this are really in 176, in which he claims he has no "real reason" suspect VP, but in 187 suddenly does. (SC, did the points raised in 187 just occur to you between those two posts, or what?) The initial vote smacked of wanting to see a bandwagon form for the sake of a bandwagon, but again it became a serious thing later, only when he was pressed on it and when he was already touchy for being called out in regards to Sando. He starts diffusing his own argument around then, giving himself an out with a bit of talk of percentages and how he might be wrong.

So he basically pulled us out of the RVS LOL. Your case is so bad it looks like distancing my friend.

You can see that I found your accusations of clergyman quite ridiculous for a reason. He voted for VPB, and later provided reasons for his vote. You paint this as him "bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning". Which, to my estimate, is what pulls the town out of the RVS. Which by my reckoning is a pro-town thing to do. So you are effectively saying that he's scummy for being pro-town. Which is preposterous.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Taking a look at your "factual inaccuracies" that comprise an integral part of your "case" against SC:

Charlatan - you looked at two arguing parties and said you didn't like either person's argument and are now preparing to vote one of them.

I assume you are talking about this quote? I said a similar (though less strongly worded) thing similar to this in 221, too:

I think arguments on both sides of the fence are contrived, and am comfortable with voting in either direction more than for anyone else in the game at this time.

I didn't say I was "preparing to vote one of them" in this quote. I had already been voting one of them for the last 100 posts or so. Do I misunderstand, or are you just plain wrong?

Weak. You might have been voting for me already, but saying that you could swing in either direction does in fact set the stage for you to switch to VPB, which is SC's real point. You blatantly ignore that and choose to focus on sentence structure or choice of word details to discredit him. You later refer back to this post for your "factual inaccuracies", that by the way never defended against the real arguments against you to begin with, but who will remember that if you sweep it under the rug? Oh yes, me.

Essentially, you didn't comment on the argument, explain which arguments you thought were good or not and you left yourself room to vote for whichever one started losing the argument.

144, 156, 175, and 221 all deal with VP and ABR and my thoughts on them. There are probably others that do, too. I actually feel pretty confident that I had contributed to the conversation more than you yourself even at that point.

If contrived flip-flopping between VPB and me are your contribution, and for so many posts at that, I'm surprised at how easily you switched votes to SC. Scummy.

It wasn't just opportunistic, it was setting yourself up to be opportunistic later when you really could tell what was the best wagon to hop on.

I don't think this even makes sense given that I was already voting one of them. (You do know that I was, right?)

Again, the fact that you were voting one of us does not take away from the fact that you were opening your options (being opportunistic) in regards to VPB vs. me.

I have no problem with bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning. My first vote on Scien was for that very reason. But if you have actual reasons for a vote, I think it makes perfect sense to be able to state them with the initial vote rather than later down the road. In what context is "this vote is for fun" more pro-town than posting a case, if you have one in you?

It's reasonable to make a semi-random vote, then explain why your vote is staying there a few posts later. Yet this makes up the other half of your case against SC, the first one being "factual inaccuracies".

Confirm vote: charlatan

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR, are you saying you think Char/DDD/Amished are team-scum, or that independently they are scummy but might not be a team?

Independently to various degrees.

ABR, is there anything else to your suspicion of Amished than him calling out a scumteam?

My instinct tells me to keep an eye on him. He's in my top 3 suspects for a reason.

Oh yeah forgot, ABR: who is more likely to be scum to you, DDD or Amished?

DDD.

[Albert B. Rampage]

DDD! Content! Omg...

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vi - we have to lynch someone. Do you prefer charlatan, DDD, or neither as of yet?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I can also confirm that Debonair Danny DiPietro did do pretty much what he's explaining fits this situation in the newbie game we played together. I actually mentioned that game back when I said I wanted to see more content from him. I do still want more content but what he's doing here is consistent with what he did when I was pushing activity in the early game while he hung back.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I need you to elaborate on that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote porkchopexpress

PRETTEH SCUMMEH

Who's weth meh?

[Albert B. Rampage]

So, Zorblag, Ojanen, how about porkchop for dinner? His posts aren't very meaty, and we need to eat him now rather than later.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So, Zorblag, Ojanen, how about porkchop for dinner? His posts aren't very meaty, and we need to eat him now rather than later.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Zorblag, Ojanen, are we having porkchop for dinner or what? His posts aren't meaty and I rather eat him now than later, personally.

Where is Sando??

[Albert B. Rampage]

I would go so far as to say that porkchop is a better lynch than charlatan because at least with the latter we will have a lot to play with in later days.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Porkchop is clearly the better lynch. Trust me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VPB is defending PCE because it was VPB's idea to invite PCE. Hees pwotectinw hees baybee.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Me neither. Votes plz.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vi 502 case against charlatan is WEAK. None of the reasons he lists make charlatan all that likely to be scum. Bad townie, maybe.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm 85% sure pce IS scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VPB

ABR is defending

PCE

charlatan because

it was VPB's idea to invite PCE

they were scum together last game. Hees pwotectinw hees baybee.

Your defense of PCE was bullshit meta. My common sense opinion on Vi's case on charlatan is that it doesn't prove that charlatan is scum in any way. And I know charlatan, if and whether he is scum with PCE or not, he's going to make a lot more mistakes.

So far, what has PCE done but ask questions and echo other players' opinions? Nothing. It's almost as if he is not even there.

Trust me, PCE is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let me surmise the case on charlatan: he makes bad arguments. He doesn't read the game like everyone else. He changes his mind often. That's IT.

If you can give better reasons than that, go ahead and post them. I'm just not seeing it right now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I try and use the word bullshit sparingly, but it certainly had its place there. I hate meta. Don't you think that PCE would try and act like in the other game knowing you were in it? You can't laud his play and then turn around and underestimate him like that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

He reads town to me in that game, and scum in this one.

In that game, he does agree with other players, but he expands and elaborates on what they say. Eg: post 10 in iso.

He starts off strong and is voting for his own reasons (post 3 in iso), and only follows a player for a short time (post 2 in iso).

In this game, he's keeping a low profile, barely reading the game, active lurking.

Case in point:

How many "discussion-advancement" questions did he ask in the game you linked? NONE. He asks rhetorical questions, questions that damn the player, but for the most part he makes claims and is actively scumhunting. He's following his own nose there, clearly.

Look at the difference in this game: in iso, post 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.

He's glaringly shifting the responsability of scumhunting to other players and doing none of his own! He is strategically taking a back seat role in which he can take whichever side is more beneficial to him depending on the evolution of the game. It's a classic scumtell.

Don't tell me you can't see the difference. Maybe it's because I'm not emotionally invested in that other game that I can see this.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Meta-check confirms scumminess. Lynch please.

Zorblag, help me out. DDD, he was voting for you a minute ago, don't tell me you're against lynching pce now. Let's go people, chop chop.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Or look at his voting pattern. Thinks DDD is scum. Thinks charlatan is scum. OMGUS to Sando.

Basically his strategy is to vote whoever town thinks is scummy and then OMGUS when said town turns against him.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bullshit Amished. PCE isn't lazy. And even if I would buy that he is purposely acting scummy as part of some grand trap, he would STILL be more lynchable than charlatan. Far more.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So we learn that charlatan likes drama. Good for him, maybe he'll get into drama school.

I agree with you that he made bad arguments. If you ask me, this is more a question of skill than alignment however. I am not against lynching charlatan in future days. Today, PCE.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Regardless, I don't think it's fair to bring meta into the equation since porkchop has yet to complete a game as mafia to my knowledge.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Deadline please

[Albert B. Rampage]

Charming.

I wasn't trying to convince you, I was asking if you would tell me your send best scum read.

I try, I believe it was PorkchopExpress when I reread the game.

You should vote for PCE.

charlatan should vote for PCE or die.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Charlatan's behavior is an open-ended question mark that is soon to be resolved, whereas PCE is a solid lynch, plain and simple.

Let's just see how this plays out.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Maybe to the untrained eye, his game in the last invitational could be mistaken as "skillful". However, being on the inside last game, the errors he committed could be described as bountiful to the very least.

But even if we disregard this, just because he is lost in his own head doesn't point to him being scum one way or the other. I will tell you what happened. You caught him off guard and he defended himself as best he could, sometimes contradicting himself in his defense, sometimes making bad arguments thinking he could brush off the attacks. This could happen to anyone.

In fact, the case on charlatan is the type of case I would use as scum. It's an easy answer the town is looking for and delighted by. The hard reality is that there are no easy answers in this game.

The charlie case is a myth. And I, am a legend.

Chop chop.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Charlatan, if he is scum, will make more damning mistakes in the future than what is passing for a case nowadays...

[Albert B. Rampage]

I was right about charlatan. I obviously don't have the time to wait an extra month on a mod who refuses to provide a deadline, so I voted him out since Vi-Amished-VP-SC-Zorblag were so damn stubborn about it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So now you give me credit, boss.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So now you give me credit, boss.

You called charlatan correctly. I'm not particularly upset over how you shifted the focus back to charlatan, either.

My questions are - When did charlatan become a Town read to you?
Is the Express of Chopped Pork still a scumread?

Thank you for trying to put words in my mouth, but I never said I had a town read. I said the arguments against him being scummy were weak. They were.

SC's case was the best of the worse. Yours was the worse.

PCE was a better lynch than charlatan. We can't afford to lose PCE if he is town, so we have to be convinced he is scum to lynch him. I'm not convinced.

Vote DDD

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't know whether PCE is scum or not. I know we can't mislynch or we are in a world of shit tomorrow,

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm warning you right now Sando is going to end up as another charlatan. Personally, I would take out DDD, but I'm not absolutely committed to that yet.

He was doing things that were easy to paint as scummy, but anyone with an ounce of good reason could see that any player could make bad arguments, try to defend his previous actions, not admit he's wrong, not scumhunt with a head on his shoulders, appear odd to the others, etc.

I voted him out because I wouldn't want to be left in a situation with him with me and the scum in LYLO, his opinions were largely bull-headed and his reasoning was extremely clouded. If it could be any other way, say 1 of the 5 first players on his wagon joined a PCE push, I would have kept him because he provided a good amount of content. I feel as though I am a better player than him and if he were scum I could outplay him in subsequent days and find his partners while I'm at it.

What is done is done. I just hope you realize that the 5 of you made rookie mistakes in stubbornly refusing to see any other possibility than charlie being scum. Elongating the day would just be a waste of all our time since the 5 of you made it clear you didn't want to switch to anyone else. Please don't waste my time or I will ask for a replacement.

More from Zorblag, Sando and VP Baltar would be nice.

[Albert B. Rampage]

(charlatan)

was doing things that were easy to paint as scummy, but anyone with an ounce of good reason could see that any player could make bad arguments, try to defend his previous actions, not admit he's wrong, not scumhunt with a head on his shoulders, appear odd to the others, etc.

Like I said, the case on charlatan would be the type of case I would write if I was scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I need more tangible evidence from PCE; he hasn't really brought anything to the table.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yep. And it wasn't me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote DDD, vote Reck

DDD, any content? Anything??

[Albert B. Rampage]

I've considered Reck pretteh suspicious for a while now. I get the feeling he doesn't know who to NK and he's asking me to class players so he can make a more informed NK. I don't like his play Day 1, it was like he was looking for any excuse to jump off the charlatan bandwagon even though charlie was his suspect. A lot more but that's all I can post for now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

No I think you're a good candidate for lynch

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well, you can explain your thought process Day 1

[Albert B. Rampage]

Just start from the moment you replaced in, what was going through your head

[Albert B. Rampage]

You have it down pat.

"How about your case from sixteen ISO posts ago, are those good reasons?"

If you look at that post, what it says is that charlatan made bad arguments against SC and played pretty bad the whole time. Which is what I've always said. Yes, those reasons are good for a vote but not for a lynch.

I voted charlatan at first because I wanted him to back down and admit he was completely wrong. He was active and if he was more open-minded I would have defended him to the hilt. But he continued with his streak of bad arguments and I had no choice but to let him go in the end.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let us not forget that RECK would have a great reason to get rid of Amished on night 1.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The scum's QT talk last night was probably something like "NK Amished Bus RECK gain cred" imo.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't know, every time RECK posts something all I read is SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM.

It's weird and I don't want to be offensive but that's the goddamn truth.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Feel free to hammer whenever

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think we should hammer Reck.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It was clear to me and anyone else watching the game at that point that charlatan was going to be lynched no matter what. So let's go back to voting RECK thanks.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Probably to justify a bad vote.

When I talked about him being a good vote, that was not referring to L-1 vote I placed on him.

In fact, I'm surprised you missed that. And I find that very scummy.

Unvote, vote SerialClergyman

What, you wanna go? You and me? Outside, now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ok...well that was gay.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I NEVER said I was certain he was town. I said there was no good reason for him being scummy. I voted him because 1) it was obvious he wasn't a mason 2) he was out to get me 3) he wasn't being logical 4) to save time since he would've been lynched anyway and no one was advancing discussion except saying that charlatan was scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I

was

right. You voted him because you allegedly thought he was scum. I voted him for different reasons, but I always said that you were wrong for thinking he is scum. Die Scum die SC.

Can't really afford to lose a townie just because he's lurking.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

wrong for the reasons you thought he was scum*

What I mean is that he COULD have been scum, but he hadn't done anything that he wouldn't have done as town at that time.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This is going to be fun.

[Albert B. Rampage]

K. This is what I think:

1. I'm not answering shit.

2. Zorblag and DDD should comment on everyone in the game.

3. Everyone should explore alternative suspects to me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You can't lynch me with 3 players. I'm a rockstar.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I am sure about RECKONER. I can't lynch RECKONER if SC is going to be voting me. So I'm voting SC. Makes sense.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VPB, you couldn't lynch me if Yosarian himself was on your scumteam. Try harder. Please, try harder.

I mean, maybe DDD will come over. Maybe Sando will. But let's be honest here, Vi is too smart to think I'm scum this far into the game. Zorblag will likely not follow you, and neither will Ojanen. I doubt even RECK would vote for me because that would prove that everything he said up until now was rubbish.

So what have you, really. Consider your options here. And am I really scum? Or just a dissident? Think carefully.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Give it up, chump. You have no credibility whatsoever. Your entire Day 1 play was to attack me as a bad catalyst for discussion that you stifled just as fast with your charlatan tunnelvision. Two days, two suspects. One dead, proved innocent.

I can be accused of contributing to a charlatan lynch, but that's still one hell of a stretch. I tried to save charlatan by lynching a lurker. I tried to change the subject. I tried to convince player's on the charlatan wagon individually. I tried so hard. Akon's heart is bleeding for me right now.

The fact of the matter was that SC, VPB, Vi, Zorblag and Amished, the very people that we put our trust in, the supposed leaders of this town if you will, failed to deliver us the scum. But they're not going to stop there. They will do it again. And again. Unabashed. Unashamed.

Because this is a game, they will be pardoned with a slap on the wrist. But because this is a game I want to win, I will not to listen to these poor fellows any longer, except Amished who was on the right track with RECK.

hitogoroshi, you can't read me; move on to somebody else.

DDD; anything??? The best you can do is ask me a question? Really? Content please.

Zorblag; guide your tight-knit clique into finding scum, and do it convincingly please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have a reason not to answer that now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote VPB

Yep he's scum alright.

[Albert B. Rampage]

More certain on VP than Reckoner?

Same.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR, is there anyone you won't blindly follow?

Ojanen is a good player for me to follow at the moment. I find VPB more or less as scummy as RECK. But maybe he's frustrated like he claims to be, I just don't believe that to be the case.

ABR: Is SerialClergyman Mafia? (with xRx/VP Baltar?)

It could be, but I don't find any relation.

Hey Albert, whatever happened to your SC suspicion?

His unintelligent vote on me was scummy. I think he and I are relatively on the same wavelength in relation to how we read the game of mafia. Since I would have killed Amished too if I were scum, that adds to my suspicion of him, albeit an obscure one that I don't expect anyone to be convinced by it. Lastly, I find it suspicious that he believed so hard in charlatan being scum.

In conclusion, SC has played an unintelligent game so far, is quite unable to find scum, and may have made an intelligent night-kill if he were scum. He could be uninterested town, or uninvolved for some other reason mysterious to me, I'm not certain yet. I also largely voted SC to get him back voting RECK.

[Albert B. Rampage]

My town list: Vi, Ojanen

[Albert B. Rampage]

I bet DDD could join that list if he TRIED. By providing analysis, and not asking questions to me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

For the sake of advancing discussion and because I'm bored, I will answer some:

PCE was a better lynch than charlatan. We can't afford to lose PCE if he is town, so we have to be convinced he is scum to lynch him. I'm not convinced.

I don't know whether PCE is scum or not. I know we can't mislynch or we are in a world of shit tomorrow,

What particular piece of insight am I missing that makes these statements make sense?

PCE was a solid Day 1 lynch because he didn't give any original information and was likely not going to. Nobody to link him with, nothing to pin him on in the future, and this in itself was scummy, coupled with a lack of interest in the game.

But we wasted a lynch Day 1 on charlatan (which was bad but unpreventable due to Amished, VPB, Zorblag, etc.), and we have to lynch carefully, based on more than "we can't link him to anyone" and lurking. Know what I mean?

@VPB

Late Day 1.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well we have different approaches then. What do you think of everything said so far in the game? Dude if you don't like this game it's no biggie, I'll ask Adel to replace and she'll make us some charts or something lol

I just want to see some involvement here, you know? Comment on what's been said, like a super long post about what you think about everything so far on Day 2.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Same could be argued for VPB, really.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What I don't like about VPB is he just attacks the same 2 people all day. Day 1, charlatan and me. Day 2, RECK and me. No imagination at all. Scum for sure, guys, lynch him up.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Seems like you haven't been reading the game VPB. +1 scumpoints for you

[Albert B. Rampage]

Seems like you haven't been reading the game VPB. +1 scumpoints for you

[Albert B. Rampage]

I've considered Reck pretteh suspicious for a while now. I get the feeling he doesn't know who to NK and he's asking me to class players so he can make a more informed NK. I don't like his play Day 1, it was like he was looking for any excuse to jump off the charlatan bandwagon even though charlie was his suspect.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Just read Zorblag's posts DDD.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hey ABR, what are your thoughts on hitogoroshi?

Scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

RECK.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why is Sando still voting for Vi?

[Albert B. Rampage]

So Vi is still your top suspect?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sando, Vi, quit being silly and vote for RECK.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote RECK

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, it's L-2

xRECKONERx(4): Debonair Danny DiPietro, Zorblag, VPB, Albert

6 to lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

GTFO scrub

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can you claim though?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Aite well I think we got to lynch here. No choice.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well you can tell us who you think is scum as a final service to the town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What makes you think so?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well I was a mason in that game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The circumstances were different, anyway. Hewitt came across as someone who would fake claim if he was scum and had to.

[Albert B. Rampage]

We shouldn't be discussing ongoing games.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And rec continues to try and hurt the town by securing posthumous town lynches.

Why does this sound like you think he'll flip town?

It sounds to me that DDD thinks that reck will flip town. He's saying that reck is trying to lynch town in the days subsequent to his death.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Typo. Replace town by scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And rec continues to try and hurt the town by securing posthumous town lynches.

Why does this sound like you think he'll flip town?

It sounds to me that DDD thinks that reck will flip

scum

. He's saying that reck is trying to lynch town in the days subsequent to his death.

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, what YOU said doesn't make sense. Why does it sound to you that DDD thinks RECK will flip town...?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Could be some last-ditch WIFOM to throw us off balance.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I knew she was town. You listen to me, we lynch scum. That's how it goes.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Today we're going to lynch someone we should have lynched a long time ago.

Vote hitogoroshi

[Albert B. Rampage]

Get the fuck out of here.

I was right about Amished. I was right about Reckoner. I am now right about PCE/hito.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Pardon my quick reaction. How does that quote go again...

Ah yes.

"Never underestimate the unpredictability of stupidity."

[Albert B. Rampage]

99% hitogoroshi is scum. Just trust me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The scum's QT talk last night was probably something like "NK Amished Bus RECK gain cred" imo.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VPB is terrible at this game. He cannot fathom a bus where a scum planned bus was almost inevitable considering how yesterday went.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The last scum have to be DDD and hitogoroshi.

Serialclergyman and Vi are almost confirmed town. VPB is like a poor man's charlatan in this game; quite bad at it but thinks he is as good as the good players. I don't have much insight into Sando and Zorblag's play, but I think that DDD and hito makes the most sense.

So the scum were:

RECKONER
DDD
hitogoroshi

I'll have a case up next week.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I would hate to wait for a case too so I will give you a rough draft of my thoughts.

First of all, let me ask all of the good players (that means everyone except VPB who is a complete nuisance) something:

Do you agree with me that it is safe to assume that both scum were on the RECKONER wagon yesterday?

Consider RECKONER actively trying to make himself seem scummy. His hurried and failed attempt to hammer himself. RECKONER would have at least waited that both scum be on his wagon until trying to off himself for the benefit of his partners. This is just common sense.

This means that VPB, who hammered after RECKONER voted himself, could be town. Or RECKONER voting himself could have been a signal for VPB to hammer.

But Serialclergyman comes out town out of this because he hopped off the RECKONER wagon.

Since I am town, this leaves hitogoroshi, Zorblag and DDD. Hitogoroshi made a 180 degree turn to vote RECKONER, so he is all but confirmed scum. Then we have Zorblag and DDD left. My pick is DDD, but if I'm wrong, it could be Zorblag.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Perhaps you should shut your useless mouth up until other players can post. I don't know, just an innocent suggestion VPB.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This is my complete lack of surprise. I'm eagerly awaiting your partner hitogoroshi's vote too.

Then we will lynch the lot of you scumbags.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The scum can't lynch me with only two players and VPB. Funny how they are trying to appear all threatening when they know far well they can't touch me with their weaksauce manpower. So sad. They misguidedly think they have a shot at the great Albert B. Rampage. Fanciful entrance is fancy. Sorry DDD, I wanted to see your scumhuntinng techniques but now I have to lynch you right after hito.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote DDD

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thinking back, Sando is town much for the same reason Serialclergyman is. Vi is town because Vi is town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I highly doubt scum would try to mount a rival bandwagon out of nothing when RECK was almost certainly going to be lynched.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yes hito, RECKONER was bussed by both his partners, one of which was yourself.

Unvote, vote hitogoroshi

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hitogoroshi has now moved up to 100% scum with post 902, I shit you not.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Never before have I brought out the 100% claim before. Boy oh boy, I must really be certain.

Look, guys. I know I'm not the most LIKEABLE player here (but also not the most unlikeable thanks to VPB). I admit, I am not nice at all. But believe me when I tell you that hitogoroshi is 100% scum.

Check out the hop on RECKONER. PCE defusing Scien's "L-# scumtell" situation, and their lack of interaction. RECK placing PCE as second most suspicious, and me trapping him to vote PCE.

It's like putting a giant puzzle together, piece by piece. You don't know what the picture will be until the final piece is placed. I now have that picture before me and I know who is scum.

I'm tempted to say hitogoroshi and Zorblag, rather than DDD. Something to think about.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I need to see if Zorblag will follow through on his suspicion of hitogoroshi. If he doesn't, they are partners for sure. If he does, they might be partners.

Serialclergyman needs to vote hito with me. VPB too, actually.

[Albert B. Rampage]

DDD, you can't go on ignoring SC and Zorblag anymore. Do they read town or scum to you and why?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Do you know why RECK voted PCE, VPB? It's because I forced him to. Go back and look.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If he didn't vote for PCE, that would mean that he was lying about suspecting PCE. So I forced his hand. Look at the context and timing of what you quoted.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I looked at the context. I don't agree with your interpretation.

Then you are blind.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Random observation: SC thinks Sando is town because he doesn't think he'd try to derail a wagon on a scumbuddy at L-1, when SC himself tried to derail the wagon on xRx.

Good point...

[Albert B. Rampage]

Zorblag, why didn't you want to explain why you don't want to vote for DDD, earlier in the game? You were being extremely cryptic for no reason.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why did you at one point name 5 players that you wanted to keep alive then?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Are you a vanilla townie SerialClergyman?

If you are town-aligned, can you make a much more detailed approximation of why you think hito and VPB are scum?

[Albert B. Rampage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClwqMGV0Ibk

Epic music starts to play as the game reaches it's climax...

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think RECKONER knew that charlatan was going to get lynched, so he bandwagonned his scumbuddy at the end of Day 1 for town credibility.

I say hitogoroshi scum with Serialclergyman or Zorblag.

[Albert B. Rampage]

But Albert, I thought you were 100% certain both of Reck's scumbuddies bussed.

SC did vote RECK for a good part of the day, he just unvoted at the last second.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Claim please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I can go either Serialclergyman or Hitogoroshi today. Both are good candidates.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I am relatively ready for a hammer.

[Albert B. Rampage]

scummy as hell ^^

Unvote, vote SC

[Albert B. Rampage]

At this point DDD holds the power over both your fates.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And don't use that simulpost to pretend like you didn't hear - I want to be profiled...

I'll be explaining that one in a minute, but first, Albert, I asked you a question. Please answer it.

You guys are just looking for attention now.

Truthfully, I have no say when it comes to which one of you has to go first. Take it up with DDD please.

Speaking of which, I noticed that hitogoroshi hasn't ever alluded to his thoughts about DDD. Strange.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sadly guys, my answer to both your requests will be the same: I trust my instinct.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If Vi or Sando is scum, I will have been completely blindsided and will have to re-evaluate the fundamental workings of my scumdar after this game.

SC's conviction of a town DDD, and hitogoroshi's complete avoidance of him, makes me think DDD is also town.

I think VPB is town. I would be far too impressed with him if he were scum, indeed deserving of the mafia scummie award.

Zorblag, despite my universal mix of suspicion and fear of him, seems to be town in this game.

This leaves the two of you to be scum with RECK.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Near the end of Day 1, I was certain of 2 things: the cases against charlatan were bad, and RECK was scummy. SC's case was logical, but lacked the strong mafia instinct I look for in him.

On Day 2, Amished's death confirmed my thoughts about RECK, and so we lynched him. I was also very confident.

Today, Day 3, I am far more humble in my approach, but here are my thoughts: I think Ojanen's death points to SC's handiwork. I think SC is strategically sucking up to DDD and me. The bastard only compliments me when he's scum, anyway. Inside joke. I think hitogoroshi is scum because of his links to RECK. His play today has made him even more likely to be scum.

Sorry clergyman, no fire and brimstone to herald your lynch. DDD will decide your fate.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think RECK's partners were preparing an eventuality where they would bus him, but the operation was a total disaster. Hitogoroshi came in too late, and SC too early. Total fiasco. The town caught on, lynched their partner, and now they are the two top suspects.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Zorblag could be playing an extremely manipulative game also, and I don't quite hold the same confidence in Danny that everyone else seems to have, but I'll be damned if I don't see you two go out while I'm still in this game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

"So hey Zorblag, what's up with your life man?"

I wish I could ask that. But I am too modest to assume that we already have both the scum in our hands. One? Sure. Two? Remains to be seen. I remain humble despite the apparently clear path and purpose laid out before me. My cynical nature coming out? We shall see, my friends, we shall see...

[Albert B. Rampage]

Whatever the case, this game is made of the cream of the crop of mafiascum, so it wouldn't be inconceivable for the entirety of our pro-town forces to reach a consensus about our scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Danny, if I may impart a piece of advice: I would choose clergyman for a lynch today.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Out of curiosity, how likely do you think both of the mafia would be to claim vanilla in this situation?

Almost a certainty. I've never seen scum claim mason in any of my Friends and Enemies games with more than a mason alive.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert, your bussing theory assumes my derailment after Reck was at L-1 for some time - plenty of time for hito to come in and hammer, IIRC. It also assumes I'd crack under the pressure of a long continued bus

Yes. Hence the fail.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This game is over. So, Zorblag, what's up with your life man?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Do you guys drive? What car do you drive?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm thinking about a toyota corolla, but have you seen the news lately? The recalls really don't inspire my confidence vote..

[Albert B. Rampage]

I wouldn't worry about the radio, personally. I'm more of a CD person.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So do you guys have harsh winters where you at VPB?

The winter in Montreal has been ridiculously mild this year. One or two snowstorms and that was it. Actually, it's snowing right now, I guess I just jinxed it. The F4 button on my iMac says that the temperature will vary between -2C and 2C for the next seven days though. Like I said, this winter was weaksauce.

If I could, I would move to San Francisco or Hawaii. No winter tires, no freezing cold, no boots or coat check. South Africa sounds like a cool place too, I'm reading a book about SA right now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

My parents went on a cruise in the Caribbeans in december, the photos look absolutely fantastic. You're quite lucky...I bet you weren't born there, but moved to the summer paradise yourself, you wily crook. When my financial situation inevitably turns around, I will come join you one of these days and we'll have mohitos with affectionate lady friends under the sun and the stars.