Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[gandalf5166]

FIRST POST

[gandalf5166]

VOTE: InHim

First name I saw when I scrolled up the playerlist.

[gandalf5166]

My role PM was ambiguous about my alignment, so I daycopped myself just to be sure. Good thing too. It turns out I'm scum.

vote: katsuki

vote: gandalf

[gandalf5166]

Oops.

Unvote

VOTE: Gandalf

[gandalf5166]

I didn't claim scum. I claimed that I investigated myself as scum. I could be paranoid. I simply believe that I am scum.

[gandalf5166]

Extend vig request to include Gandalf, please. WIFOM on page 1 is unappealing.

Are you retarded?

I claim scum in about half of my games in RVS. It's my shtick. I wanted to do it in this one, so I found a way around the restriction. I wasn't going to let the rules affect my shtick. Joking around in RVS is NOT grounds for vigging, sorry.

[gandalf5166]

Not understanding your (quite stupid) schtick is not grounds for ripping off my face.

Vig request retracted, but scum suspicion added on the grounds of overreaction.

Fuck overreaction.

[gandalf5166]

There's nothing more painful than the start of a big Forum Mafia game, where everyone desperately tries to start a subject.
Someone must be sacrificed by looking scummy so we can start having reads on each other.
Who's up?

Well, I was taking on that load, but you can have it.

*hands over yoke*

I've trained for months though, so it might be a bit heavy. Try not to let it crush you.

Unvote
VOTE: Katsuki
Unvote
VOTE: SGR

[gandalf5166]

CHARGE

YOUR MOM

[gandalf5166]

Seriously, SGR is right. Not enough joking here.

UNVOTE x13, VOTE: Pine

Why so Serious?

Vote: WrathChild

For trying to dissuade votes based on actions and instead push for RVS. The faster RVS dies the better.

Actually, I've caught far more scum in RVS than out. And generally, I frown upon those who try to end it early. They tend to flip scum.

[gandalf5166]

No, really, most games, when I catch scum I find them in the first few pages. You yourself have personal experience with my RVS skillz.

And Pine, actually no. I'm simply saying that scum can be found in RVS, and that I've seen scum try to push their way out of it. This is not coin flip. This is an occurrence that is connected to another occurrence, and I am thus saying that since one occurred, it is likely that the other is also occurring. i.e. LMP is scum trying to push out of RVS. That is the DEFINITION of logic.

[gandalf5166]

B

Vote Gandalf

RVS-skillz my ass, more like RVS-sheeping-Jester-MoI-skillz.

I wasn't town in that game.

[gandalf5166]

Hey Gandalf, where are your breadcrumbs, bro?

My role this game is best if everyone doesn't know about it. In fact, it's nigh useless if anybody does. So no thanks.

[gandalf5166]

I'll switch my vote to LMP when I get off my phone and it doesn't take ten minutes to vote.

[gandalf5166]

Nope. If you read the rules this time, they say that it is a mostly vanillaless game. Not sure what that means, but w/e.

[gandalf5166]

VOTE: IceyCupcake

They are either town or third-party that doesn't interfere with town, imho, and I'll give this a go and see what happens.

Wow. You acknowledge that they aren't harmful to town. And then you vote for them. Why the FUCK?

Unvote
VOTE: Amrun

InHim and LMP are still scum though. SGR is town.

[gandalf5166]

Oh..... I uh...... missed the imp vote afterwards.

Unvote
VOTE: Cupcake
Unvote
VOTE: LMP

[gandalf5166]

VOTE: IceyCupcake

They are either town or third-party that doesn't interfere with town, imho, and I'll give this a go and see what happens.

Wow. You acknowledge that they aren't harmful to town. And then you vote for them. Why the FUCK?

Unvote
VOTE: Amrun

InHim and LMP are

still

scum though. SGR is town.

I contest this modifier. I've been scum in your eyes for how long?

FOS one way, vote another, FOS two more ways.

unvote
vote: gandalf

A while. Just because I didn't say it doesn't mean it's not true.

[gandalf5166]

If your argument is "LMP went out of his way to make it plain that stalling RVS is bad, thus he's trying to hard to look town" then I'm guilty of the first part and think your conclusion is stupid.

Nope. Your problem is that you tried to get out of RVS without any real reason(i.e. WHY ARE YOU FUCKING AROUND, LOOK AT HOW SCUMMY XXXX IS BEING). Also, getting a "scum caught for wrong reasons" vibe from this post.

You still don't have a good justification for why my doing it was BAD BAD BAD but Pine's wasn't.

Pine was actually being serious. You were just bitching about people joking around. There's a difference.

[gandalf5166]

Please can we stop using CAPS LOCK it's irritating. If it continues I will start voting for the CL propergstors.

You have two other posts, and this is all you can find to say?

[gandalf5166]

PINE IS OBV MISLYNCH BAIT

[gandalf5166]

no
SGR was the obv mislynch bait
PINE IS THE SCUM

NO THEYRE BOTH TOWN

IM TELLING YOU

THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE JUST IGNORING THE LMP/INHIM SLOTS FOR THEM TO BE TOWN

[gandalf5166]

If he wins by getting votes, then how does that wincon interfere with town's? He'd just win and leave the game.

[gandalf5166]

How would it have a drastic effect on the game? They would leave. We would GET RID of an anti town role with no negative effects. Plus if they have any teammates, they leave too. HOW IS THAT A BAD THING

And @Pine: You're misunderstanding my point(and maybe the rules). Their wincon involves receiving votes. How does that interfere with town's?

[gandalf5166]

If his wincon doesn't involve receiving votes, then why is he asking for votes?

[gandalf5166]

The rules EXPLICITLY state that unless a factions wincon DIRECTLY interferes with another's, the game will continue. So unless you can think of a way that IC receiving a certain number of votes interferes with another faction, shut up. We're taking the MOD'S word, not IC's.

[gandalf5166]

Oh FFS. And if the goal of gathering votes is to set off a massive spell that kills everyone else? What then?

You seriously think that would happen? The mod would put an ability in that powerful? Hell, even the concept of an ability powered by votes is pretty ridiculous, even for an S_B game.

[gandalf5166]

I don't care. It's unknown, non-Town, and if it's that conditional, presumably powerful. I don't care to risk a Town victory on it.

You think that S_B would have her entire game hinge around how many votes a particular player got? No. They're a MINOR role if their abilities are that conditional. At MOST, they're an SK that gets a minor ability increase if they get a certain number of votes during the day.

[gandalf5166]

Hell, we don't even KNOW that he's third party.

[gandalf5166]

@Pine: Jester-like meaning they need votes. They didn't claim anti-town.

[gandalf5166]

Okay, he honestly just stops posting under pressure? I think I might have had a townread on him before, but this is ridiculous.

[gandalf5166]

Oops, forgot:

Unvote
VOTE: Icey
Unvote
VOTE: Pine

[gandalf5166]

Pine is so emotional about this I almost feel he has to be town losing it. I think scum would have dropped it rather than make this point about Icey such a big issue and draw so much attention (and votes).

Untrue. Scum are much more likely to stick by their guns, because it's hard to fake a sincere post where you change your mind.

Just had an extremely detailed chat with my other head about our reads and he now agrees that ISO #4 by ABR is actually an incredibly strong town-tell, we don't see him openely stating that he has 'multiple killing abilities" as mafia.

I definitely agree with this, especially since S_B doesn't give out fakeclaims.

@Everyone: What is with the multiple vote, unvote, vote in the same post?

Read IC's first post.

[gandalf5166]

@Zdenek: The fact that he's sticking to his guns beyond logic(yes, I think scum are more likely to do that than town) and yes, the fact, that he stopped posting when he was put under pressure. Scum are most likely to slip up when they're emotionally invested, so they have every motivation not to post when they start getting angry. I do NOT see why town would stop posting just because they were mad.

[gandalf5166]

Icey: One head?! Which head?! Your heads have different roles?

Anyone who has played with GI before knows that he is naturally a jester by default.

What is this I don't even

Have you played with GI? It's true.

[gandalf5166]

How would it have a drastic effect on the game? They would leave. We would GET RID of an anti town role with no negative effects. Plus if they have any teammates, they leave too. HOW IS THAT A BAD THING

Soben's point is that there could be negative effects - why are you assuming that there would be none?

I think Icey is either town or a cleric-like third party, by the way.

First of all, if you think Icey is town, why aren't you voting for them before you vote for other people. Secondly, THE RULES SAY SO. If a faction wins and their wincon doesn't directly conflict(which a wincon of getting voted for WOULD NOT) then the game gos on as normal.

Oh fuck, Pine's claim means he's almost certainly town. And if he's not, he probably just lost all of his abilities, so he's harmless.

Unvote
VOTE: Icey
Unvote
VOTE: LMP

[gandalf5166]

@Beef: No. There are ingame consequences to claiming.

[gandalf5166]

Aw crap. I think I was skimming a bit to much. LMP isn't all that inconsistent.

unvote

VOTE: Mana_Ku

@gandalf: what was the deal with Andrius, then?

It was flavor is what it was.

[gandalf5166]

LMP: ITS A TRAP

THE CORRECT ANSWER IS CHESSKID

[gandalf5166]

Also, answer me, somewhere in that huge wall, there's one or two questions directed at you.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, in this game is ever going to read that wall. Summarize.

[gandalf5166]

LMP: ITS A TRAP

At least someone here thinks I'm town. Cause I am.

Wait, I don't get how my post is related to your comment. I don't have much of a read on you at all.

[gandalf5166]

-A friendly advice:

Actually, two advices from your friendly mod. First, though you can paraphrase your role pm and make a claim, it is not advised to do so. Really, listen to me this time. Second, don't try to outguess me. You will fail so hard it won't be funny.

LMP, this is the rule you're looking for.

Has anyone ever been in an S_B game that had a modkill? If so, did S_B specifically say "this player is being mod killed" or was it like the death that just happened?

I have been modkilled in an S_B game(I called somebody a fucktard, IIRC)

I'm just thinking that there has to be some reason that this plan won't work. Personally, I think that it's probably caused by a role. So our fun will end once we kill that role....... I mean really, S_B or Andy would have noticed at some point.......

[gandalf5166]

If it wasn't a modkill and all abilities resolve at the end of the phase, then what the hell was it?

A passive ability belonging to a role that kills anyone who claims their rolename, much like the one in the original where Kats immediately stole the abilities of anybody who claimed their rolename as well as any abilities they claimed the name of.

[gandalf5166]

Why does it matter where the ability came from? What matters is it works.

Because where it comes from is related to how it works. And if it works differently than we think it does, we're screwed.

[gandalf5166]

Tin foil hat: What if scum get a free kill every time somebody claims? And they don't HAVE to use it on the person who claimed, but they used it on Pine because everyone was treating him like confirmed town?

[gandalf5166]

In Lost S4 chess was SK. The last actual scum game I remember playing with him was Random Mafia XXL. I'm sure he's been scum in some others more recently though.

[gandalf5166]

@WC: Yes, we might end up having 4 mislynches before a scum lynch...... But couldn't the same thing happen normally? Only if we have four mislynches normally, we probably just lost the game? The point is, we were GUARANTEED to kill one scum per day.

[gandalf5166]

if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Of course that's what killed Pine.
Hey, WrathChild, you might want to read the thread slowly and carefully before bothering to share your opinion and/or vote. You are missing obvious details. Either that, or you're just reaching to try to lynch me.

You have no way of knowing what killed Pine. You're trying to outguess the mod.

Look at the flavor of Pine's death. Then look at the flavor of Andrius' death.

[gandalf5166]

The above was a SB quote from the rules.

You're proving our point.

[gandalf5166]

Okay. If N1 is going to give us SO much info, why are we lynching today? We should all switch to no lynch, right? Because we might mislynch today, but TOMORROW. We'll be SO much better off!

[gandalf5166]

I think WC is stuck on the fact that just because people aren't modkilled, it doesn't mean that they aren't automatically dying when they claim.

[gandalf5166]

I'm ignoring WC now. He's being an idiot.

[gandalf5166]

Zdenek, I just thought you should know that I always setup speculate a little than most people think is normal for town. You can ask the other people in this game that I've played with.

[gandalf5166]

That poost of. Gandalf's is giving me seriously bad vibes.

Eh. I just figured he should know.

[gandalf5166]

Unvote
VOTE: Icey
Unvote
VOTE: Beefster

[gandalf5166]

*Groan*
More votes on me.

Beefster, I don't care if you're lazy town. All lazy people are not town, and twisting posts to mean something you want them to, and then saying you didn't read when your case falls apart because it makes no sense, is not a towntell.

NOT being lazy is not a scumtell.

Point taken. I am town though.

Oh, well thanks for that nugget of wisdom. I'll be unvoting..... Oh wait? What's that? You're not defending yourself at all?

[gandalf5166]

That is NOT gamblers' fallacy. He's giving you meta to look at. You are NOT this stupid.

[gandalf5166]

And no scumreads..............

[gandalf5166]

It was Beefster who said that.

[gandalf5166]

I don't believe you.

I want you dead now.

Either you're misrepping scum, or you're not going to be useful to the town because you can't tell who said what, and don't care to fix it.

Unvote
VOTE: Icey
Unvote
VOTE: RBT

[gandalf5166]

What does Swiss null even mean?

[gandalf5166]

Amrun, what evidence do you have that suggests NOT multiple scumteams? I came into this game assuming multiple scumteams. First off, it's a large, and more larges have multiple scumteams than not. Second, it's a large with a complex setup, which likewise almost always have multiple scumteams. So the burden of proof is on YOU.

[gandalf5166]

Re: Multiple scum factions: It also EXPLICITLY states that there may be other factions. Notice the "at least". Now, the second scumteams may be less damaging than a normal scum faction, like in the last game, where the mageslayers just had to kill a certain number of people(scum were valid targets). But I would bet CASH MONEY that there is more than one scumteam in this game.

[gandalf5166]

I think the possibility of a framer or a similar role in this game is too high to give mafia that much info on investigations.

[gandalf5166]

Not reading imp's case against me. It's long, I'm town, and I have better things to do. I did see something about retroactive justification because I was looking for the part that Amrun referenced. I figured it was fairly obvious why I was voting for him. His posts were bad. When somebody is that obviously scummy, I usually don't bother justifying my votes.

Damage list:

RBT
LMP
inHim

[gandalf5166]

When somebody is that obviously scummy, I usually don't bother justifying my votes.

When you say "sombeody" are you referring to pine, beefster, or RBT?

All three.

[gandalf5166]

though he was scum in the first one >_>

I'm still pissed that I forgot about it and bussed him thinking it would earn me towncred..... >.>

[gandalf5166]

I'm not a lurker? :C

I still haven't read pages 46-48(or something like that. the point is three pages somewhere). That's why not so many posts recently. THIS DAY IS BORINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

I wanna see a votecount.

[gandalf5166]

EBWOP: #@*%^ links:
@Gandalf- Implosion's full case:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 4#p3082214, and followup:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 7#p3082857
Please comment.

Oh right, I forgot about that. I have to go right now(my mom's about to get home and I still have some chores to do) but I'll probably do this later tonight or tomorrow.

[gandalf5166]

Extend vig request to include Gandalf, please. WIFOM on page 1 is unappealing.

Are you retarded?

I claim scum in about half of my games in RVS. It's my shtick. I wanted to do it in this one, so I found a way around the restriction. I wasn't going to let the rules affect my shtick. Joking around in RVS is NOT grounds for vigging, sorry.

His first few posts are null to me. This is the first scummy post. It's really overdefensive against such an early attack. It seems like he's trying to justify himself too much, like he's nervous that things he says are going to seem scummy. It's also an overjustificaiton of it being his "shtick" - if this is true, he could just say that and be done with it. The first two sentences of this post are equivalent to the entire post - the rest of the post is just repetitive overjustification. Pine also caught this, and gandalf's response to this was, and I quote: "Fuck overreaction." Yeah, way to sidestep the actual argument.

I was making my point while demonstrating it. I usually start getting abrasive when people suspect me, especially early or late game(midgame, I usually don't care for some reason).

ISO 9/10: "Actually, I've caught far more scum in RVS than out. And generally, I frown upon those who try to end it early. They tend to flip scum." As I recall people saying, this is a strange generalization to make. Also, correlation does not imply causation. Again, it's strange for him to be so strongly advocating that LMP is scum for such a minor thing as wanting to end the RVS. I remember a game a while ago where someone (don_johnson i believe) did something intended to quickly end RVS, and he was town. OMG I GUESS LMP MUST BE TOWN! it's the only logical conclusion to make. If one random person did something as some alignment, then OBVIOUSLY everyone who does the same thing in a different game has to be the same alignment!!!! Basically, it's a horribly justified attack, and town has no reason to do such a thing.

You're right, correlation does not imply causation in and of itself. But when there's a reason that scum would want to end RVS, ending RVS IS scummy, and the fact that people who do it usually flip scum strengthens my point.

11 DOES mean something. It entirely refutes Zdenek's point.

Re: 17: It was early game, I hadn't listed all my reads yet. Just because I hadn't said he was scum didn't mean I hadn't thought it.

Gotta go now.

[gandalf5166]

Yes. The RVS is meaningless interaction, without any reasoning whatsoever. Interaction is the strongest tell, as it is the primary difference between scum and town. In the RVS, scum can't make excuses based on peoples play for treating them differently. So its far and away the most information rich phase of the game. I don't think I need to explain why ending it is proscum. ESPECIALLY since it was LMP doing it. He has personal experience with my abilities to detect scum in RVS. I've said all of this before.

[gandalf5166]

Unlikely but not impossible?

No, its basically impossible. It only has the tiniest fraction of possibility because this is probably a multiscum game.

[gandalf5166]

Re: Katy: I was originally talking about Beefster(I think). I was just being irritating when I said all of them.

And this game is boring me, so hence me not being as vocal. Back to the implosion case......

[gandalf5166]

Re: 22-29: For the last fucking time: I'm not making an assumption. IM LOOKING AT THE FUCKING RULES
Re: 30-31:I voted for Pine for not posting 33 minutes after he posted, yes. What did he say in that post? OH RIGHT, THAT HE WASNT GOING TO POST ANYMORE. I don't see how waiting a couple of hours would have made any more sense. And the fact that he started posting again doesn't change the fact that he tried to get away with not posting. And in fact, the fact that he posted again makes it all the worse. It smacks of scum realizing that it's not going to work and trying to minimize the damage.
Re: 33: He had. He had since given up on it, but like I said, that only strengthened my case. And I already explained why it's scummy.
Re: 35: Are you really trying to act like adding "as normal" onto the end of a sentence is scummy? And yes, it was without justification. I'm not about to tell you why, either. It's my business, not yours.
Re: 54: For the umpteenth time: get over it. I almost never justify my votes, and if I do, I do in fact usually do it when people ask.
Re: 56-58: "null leaning scum" is not a scumread. The only one of those three that applies is the IC point, and I guess I got you confused with someone else or something. I don't know. And adding "as normal" onto the end does NOT qualify as misrepping S_B's rules.

And I just want to ask one thing: Why is retroactive justification scummy? Looking at the followup now.

[gandalf5166]

GOING TO SUBMIT AN ACTION ANYWAY BUT I DOUBT IT WILL BE COUTNED

Same here :/

[gandalf5166]

Oh, well that's pretty nice.

[gandalf5166]

I don't know what everyone's problem is with day actions. You should have been planning that all day.

I didn't want to do something stupid like waste it on the person we were lynching........

[gandalf5166]

Katy lynch is all cool, her backpedaling on me with no new info is BAAAAAAAAD.

fos: Katy

I'm not sure if I told the mod this: LA until the 13th

[gandalf5166]

Oops. I have camp starting in ten minutes, but I'll start catching up in three hours, even if I have to do it on my phone.

[gandalf5166]

People need to stop bitching. The first two games had weird bits too. Get over it or don't join the game. Meantime, I wish that my two main suspects weren't already bleeding. Now, I do agree that her ruleset is irritating, but that's the way it is. Excuse me if my thoughts are all over the place, I usually edit it into a comprehensible order but I can't on my phone. Katy is still the best lynch. Reading my ISO is not new info, it's info she should have had earlier when she first accused me, and iirc info that she SAID she had. And the flips have nothing to do with my alignment unless she wants to say how they did. And referencing ongoing games isn't all of a sudden okay because it's relevant and because you put redacted in. There's only one game that I've just flipped in, everyone knows what you're talking about.

[gandalf5166]

Bunny really needs to be clearer. Snake really needs to die.

fos: snake

[gandalf5166]

Claiming abilities should be safe as long as you don't claim the flavor/name behind them. And I've been very succinct lately, yes. I'm posting from my phone, and I don't have a lot of time, as I have been at a camp producing Joseph and the amazing technical dreamt for the past two weeks. My last performance is today, and after that I'm driving to Colorado with my dad, but once I arrive I'll have a computer I can actually post from and my activity should go up.

fos:surye

I forgot about this since LMP got replaced.

[gandalf5166]

Zdenek is obvtown............. Surye is the hip new wagon. Like it before it's cool.

[gandalf5166]

Has he done anything scummy? No. He's fencesitting, but that's just how he plays from what I've seen of him. As Feysal said, that's just his posting style.

[gandalf5166]

Okay everybody, anyone not voting for Zdenek, Dry-Fit or Surye is wasting their vote. Anyone who is voting for Zdenek isn't using their brain. And anyone voting for Dry-Fit is kind of funny, since he hasn't done much wrong except for lurk, and seeing that he flaked, I don't see why that's a big deal. In other words, everyone has one day to vote for Surye.

VOTE: Surye

[gandalf5166]

How do the mechanics make analysis harder? You can still read players' posts and notice scummy behavior. What do you mean, play this ruleset right? ITS FUCKING MAFIA. And how bad your playerslot was before is irrelevant. I've replaced in for idiots and turned the entire game around. Get over it. And no. You're scum because you find the time to make very large posts and yet mysteriously have no time to read the game. I would find you LESS scummy if you hadn't been posting. That combined with your predecessor's actions makes the idea of voting for anyone else today seem laughable. You don't have to read the entire game and make a giant post at the end. In fact, I would rather you made posts as you went along, so that I didn't have to read a giant wall.

[gandalf5166]

shut up gandalf, i don't blame surye for not catching up this post is a trainwreck.

OTOH, was that an amished scumtell I just saw.

I don't care. He replaced into a game under 100 pages, he's expected to read it. I understand if it's taking him a while. But the amount of content he's produced would imply that he hasn't read anything at all.

[gandalf5166]

The Internet where I've been is incredibly spotty(down regularly and slow), but I'll have reliable Internet again starting tomorrow. The deadline is obviously very close, so for today, I'm just going to copy the almost sure town mason, and

VOTE: bunnylover

My activity level will be back to normal tomorrow.

Town read just fucking died.

How do the mechanics make analysis harder?

Are you kidding me?

Scum are still doing scummy things. The fact that we can't vote more than once today doesn't change that. The fact that we can't claim our names doesn't change that.

Solution.

vote gandalf

Good for you, you just guaranteed that your opinion doesn't matter for today's lynch, because quite simply, it's fairly obvious that there are only a few people who suspect me, and that's not going to be enough for a lynch for a couple more days. Meanwhile, you're also taking votes away from GI.

[gandalf5166]

My opinion wouldn't have mattered if there had been some followers not herpderping to Surye.

I don't understand this post.

[gandalf5166]

SPYREX IF IT WERENT FOR THIS RULESET THERE WOULD BE WORDS

YOU COULD HAVE VOTED FOR SURYE AND KEPT US FROM A NL

[gandalf5166]

No I couldn't have or even without reading the game I would have hammered.

Yes. But ANY LYNCH IS BETTER THAN NO LYNCH

YOURE NOT RETARDED I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS

[gandalf5166]

Look at the votecount before your first post. Look at the votecount after your first post. THE FIRST ONE IS A NORMAL VOTECOUNT

THE SECOND IS THE END OF DAY FUCKING CHRIST

And you're allowed to use your day abilities until she says it's night.

[gandalf5166]

It's really more like there are two nights than a day and a night action.

[gandalf5166]

If we had all been roleblocked we would have known about it, remember?

[gandalf5166]

Oh right, I DID get roleblocked yesterday...... I assumed spy had done it or something.

[gandalf5166]

Icey, if you still believe Gandalf to be town after that twilight roleblock action/claim, what am I missing?

No, I just forgot about it. I got a pm, it was short. My action wasn't something I was expecting feedback from, so I forgot about it.

[gandalf5166]

And hell, if I am lying..... why does that make me scum? I clearly didn't make a strongman kill.....

[gandalf5166]

This badwagon on Gandalf sucks.

Is this typo on purpose?

I'm hesitant on the SpyreX wagon...... There are other reasons the kill might be missing. Did you protect me from damage or from kills?

[gandalf5166]

Icey, what did you roleblock or was it general?

Because gandalf and now Bunny claim not to have been RB'ed.

Unvote

CHRIST

I WAS ROLEBLOCKED

I JUST FORGOT ABOUT IT

And it was yesterday, not last night, so bunny's claim doesn't conflict either.

[gandalf5166]

Surye needs a prod.

And SGR and Zdenek are so obviously scum together after this last page that I can't even decide which one to vote for first.

Vote: IC
Unvote
VOTE: Zdenek

I think he has a bigger wagon right now.

[gandalf5166]

Haha sgr isn't even reading the game anymore? Seriously, even the surye wagon is hilarious in comparison. I'll switch my vote when I get home and I can do so more easily.

[gandalf5166]

Here's what's bugging me. If SGR was scum and he thought they won by no-lynch, that means that of our 15 permanent players (assuming Bowser is temporary as suggested), one successful night kill, puts us at 14, that means there needs to be 7 scum. That seems a bit high doesn't it?

Nobody is suggesting that he thought he had won. We're suggesting that he's not reading the freaking game.

[gandalf5166]

Bunny, I would say exactly the opposite. Why would scum need to read the game more than town?

[gandalf5166]

I was obviously joking, and I never even really claimed scum.
I said "If I am Mafia, you already lost", Hokuto no Ken joke.
Then, Wrath said "well played, who's your partner" actually thinking I thought I was Mafia, and I said "Zde-WAIT A SECOND", joking, because Gandalf said me and him were partners. It was obviously a joke.

Why was I joking in such a moment? Well, because I though we reached NL, and I was just having some fun.

In short, reread very carefully, unvote me, and try to actually lynch scum. Thank you

None of this is related to why anyone thinks you're scum.

[gandalf5166]

Although yeah, I don't see why town would do that. I mean, thinking the day had ended isn't an excuse..... you didn't do it the last two times the day ended, and neither did anybody else.

[gandalf5166]

How is that post from LMP more likely to come from town? You know, reverse bussing is a pretty risky tactic.............

[gandalf5166]

Also, completely off-topic, but way to be a douche and /out of that C9++ game just because I /in'd.

Damn straight I did. When I said people I knew I meant "people I knew that didn't raise my blood pressure whenever I talked to them".

actually, forgot lmp replacing out. totally town for that alone, I think.

Ummmm....... he replaced out because he thought the mod was being a jerk.......... That is just as likely to come from scum as town.

[gandalf5166]

You know, reverse bussing is a pretty risky tactic.............

What's "reverse bussing" and what do you mean?

As in, defending the crap out of your buddies before you die that way everyone will think they can't possibly be your partners.

[gandalf5166]

nah it's more likely to come from town, makes it easy for scum actually. he'd be laughing.

Just because it makes things easier for mafia doesn't mean it wouldn't be frustrating......

Also, you're the fucking idiot here, you're the fucking idiot that can't take a joke. Thanks for admitting you're only voting me because you find me annoying, unless you'd like to share some actual reasons why I'm scum.

As in, defending the crap out of your buddies before you die that way everyone will think they can't possibly be your partners.

Don't be a fucking moron and tell me why I'm Mafia.

Every single post you've made so far screams scum. And yes, you do piss me off. And your "joke" is not why I think you're scum, for the last time. I don't make cases, especially when there are plenty of other people in the game perfectly willing to do it.

[gandalf5166]

VOTE: SGRAIZE

VOTE: SGRAIZE

VOTE: SGRAIZE

VOTE: SGRAIZE

VOTE: SGRAIZE

You have to unvote.

[/b]Unvote
VOTE: SGR[/b]

[gandalf5166]

Unvote
VOTE: SGR

[gandalf5166]

To specify, the undead I am looking for already start as "undead", although I'm not sure if you being revived means you become undead

HE WAS A WIGHT YOU IDIOT

[gandalf5166]

Except for the vengeful part of my role, sure. Scum don't really want to touch me at night because I get to vig out of anyone who targets me.

Well, then, nevermind. We don't lynch me, tomorrow, I'll prove you're town.
I don't think Mafia will sac just so I don't clear myself

/inb4 "oh, I got roleblocked"

[gandalf5166]

Its not like I'm the only person excluded to be scum via POE.

No, but the other people being cleared actually look like they might in some realm of possibility be town.

[gandalf5166]

@2135 feysal: that was the RVS, stupid.

[gandalf5166]

Jesus Fuck, you guys.

I CAN CLEAR MYSELF TO RBT, VOTE SOMEONE ELSE AND TOMORROW I'LL BE PROVEN

Everyone that is still voting me at this point is Mafia

Unvote

Vote: GreyICE

Haha. All seven of us. Yeah. You must be the greatest scumhunter of all time.

[gandalf5166]

Kats, you should probably have a talk with the mod haha.

[gandalf5166]

Real talk: Vote anyone else to get lynched, and tomorrow RBT is claiming I am Town.
You are not fucking lynching me when I can prove to everyone I'm town. You lose absolutely nothing by lynching another scummy person, unless you think there's only one Mafia and I am that one Mafia, in which case, you'll have this won by tomorrow.

Stop being morons.

Right, because in this game, I'm sure that scum completely lack abilities aside from the nightkill, so there's no way you could be stalling for another night.

[gandalf5166]

For the record, when I said yesterday that any lynch was better than no lynch, I wasn't including confirmed town because I figured that people weren't stupid enough to get close to lynching confirmed town. So no, I won't be switching my vote just to get a lynch today.

[gandalf5166]

GI says she's town. That's good enough for me, because GI is definitely not scum.

[gandalf5166]

Is PV confirmed town or *mystery powers*?

Nope? Then lets make this day end. Be part of the solution.

PV has one vote against him. SGR has four. Who's not being part of the solution?

[gandalf5166]

that's 4 non town people in wc/grey/baby spice

is gandalf in your faction too?

Yes. BS is NOT on our team.

[gandalf5166]

For the record, I DO believe SGR is scum, and I am fully aware that I am more likely to win if this game lasts longer, which at this juncture will only happen if we lynch scum. So stop talking to me like I'm an idiot, GI. Hell, in the same post you call me stupid for my last few posts(which are pushing the sgr lynch), you vote for sgr. So shut the fuck up. Hell, at this point you're useless anyways. The only way anybody's going to vote for you is if you threaten to commit suicide.

Pedit: Fucking hell, GI. You really think there's a TWO MAN SKteam? With this amount of antitown, I wouldnt be surprised if there are only two actual scum period.

[gandalf5166]

Oh Christ, GI claimed my wincon. I was going to do it later........ And no, I haven't been playing toward that wincon during the day, other than that I've made a point of trying to be on the lynching wagon just in case the lynchee is undead. I will make a deal. You can Lynch me if you want to lose. Or you can give me a list of three people every day. All I ask is that CONFIRMED scum be left off the list. My team will confer, and I'll kill the on e we decide is least likely to be scum. You guys get rid of unknowns(and it's entirely possible we'll end up killing scum if you give us a good list), and I have a reasonable chance of still getting points despite the fact that GI just guaranteed I'll have at least three blocks on me every night.

[gandalf5166]

Undead = Sorcerers

None of those abilities prove you are undead. In fact, you basically just claimed necromancer, a specialty. Guess what? Sorcerer's can't specialize. Only wizards can. Please let's just Lynch this fucked already.

[gandalf5166]

Every flavor. Every single one. Even types not yet uncovered.

How many votes does it take to get you out of the game and would that take your team with you?

Since there are ways we can lose points, we don't leave the game. We're in until the end.

[gandalf5166]

Oh, ignore the list thing for now. I'll kill PV tonight. Just be aware that if he's not town, I might not kill him. I don't deal a lot of damage unless my target is undead.

I get it, you're saying you're a lich. What I'm saying is that all your abilities make plenty of sense for a necromancer.

[gandalf5166]

Yes, but you claimed undead already. And I get closer to winning if you're town, so I don't care(although I think it's unfortunately unlikely that you are).

[gandalf5166]

I already said, I don't think you are town. But if you'd been reading, you'd know that I'm the antitown member of the team(as far as how I earn points). As such, I'm on a tight leash. They say to kill you, I'm doing it. And I sincerely hope you do turn up town, or else I've wasted my action(well, not entirely, since I am demonstrating my willingness to cooperate). And I don't remember where you said it, but I distinctly remember you saying it.

[gandalf5166]

As to the bolded in your quote, you're the antitown member of your team......why are we not lynching you, exactly?

Because I will NOT keep you from winning. Scum will, and they're really damn close to outnumbering you. Especially after SGR's bullshit, which strongly implies that one mislynch means you lose.

VOTE: SGR

[gandalf5166]

Great. He might be the lich. Or more likely, since he's scum, is that he's a necromancer.

I would like SGR to claim the names of two or three of his abilities. One of us four has an ability that could help confirm(or disprove) his claim to an extent. If he's worried about the ability being stolen or deactivated, he should use ones that he's already used up.

[gandalf5166]

HAMMER THIS FUCK.

gandalf, merk peregrineV

imma be a sexy slut and block someone.

I don't know if he'll be dead today, but he'll almost definitely be dead tomorrow.

[gandalf5166]

I am at full health IIRC.

[gandalf5166]

Vaya, you're online. Convince your people to side with me. It will be awesome. We'll get to laugh at the helpless town as we kill them off as we desire, and win together!

The only reason it is to our advantage to cooperate with either side is to drag the game out. Right now that means town. Deal with it. Plus we can actually coordinate with town.

[gandalf5166]

Yeah, I kill town now(well, without you guys telling me) and I'm a goner, which means I have 0% chance of gaining more points for my team. There's at least the chance that you're wrong if I cooperate.

[gandalf5166]

Not only did RBT die, meaning I had no idea who to target with my ability (I didn't want to risk it on someone that wasn't undead), but one person gave me two limitations:
-I couldn't use a damaging ability
-I couldn't use an ability that targeted me

Well, thank you, bitch, I couldn't do shit.

Oh, that's a much better plan than I could have come up with. Kill your target so you actually have a plausible explanation for your lack of "clearing".

[gandalf5166]

I'm praying the dumbass flavor shit means we lynch the top two candidates, hellfire style.

Anyone else think this is likely?

That or damaging abilities are more powerful.

[gandalf5166]

Grab Ring
VOTE: SGR

And I totally thought for a second that SB meant that SHE was replacing in for Surye >.> Mind Screw starting has me thinking in a different mindframe.

[gandalf5166]

Gaggle needs to take my ring as soon as he can. And FTR, there still seems to be some bullshit flying around about us siding with scum. We automatically lose four points if scum win. It wasn't intended that way, but it's true. So shut the fuck up. Winning with scum is possible for us but it would be damn fucking hard. But yeah, we're going to be reluctant to lynch the last scum. However, I'm pretty confident that we have two scum left. And with feysal still here, we don't even have to worry about that. So shut the FUCK up.

[gandalf5166]

I feel like the Adventurers are pushing on me being scum because of the whole points thing, maybe Gandalf has an ability that is able to see who is undead and who isn't, and that's why they have been pushing on me all along. Maybe they need the points desperately because the game is getting closer to a finish, and lynching me kills both birds with a single stone: Kills an undead = Gives points, kills Town = Keeps the game going for longer

Nope. In fact, I'll fullclaim. My class should be obvious once I do, and no ability like you describe makes sense for my class. My first ability is a track. Second is hide, exactly the same as GI's. My third is a passive that lets me deal two extra damage per attack to undead. My attack ability let's me make two attacks, that can be split or both applied to the same target. I have two different weapons, one that let's me deal two points of damage per attack, and one that deals one damage per attack but bypasses damage protection. The bonus applies itself weirdly. If I split, it applies to both, but if I combine, it only applies once. All of those are unlimited shots. I've attacked every night. I don't remember who or how because that doesn't really matter to me so I haven't kept track.

[gandalf5166]

I have a specialty with undead, as you can see. Now stop being idiotic, and if you're town, start hunting real scum. I can't even remember the last time you accused someone of being a sorcerer.

[gandalf5166]

Sorry, two games in a row it's been sorcerers, and my role pm doesn't remind me >.>

[gandalf5166]

I agree with all of feysal's last post, and I will be following it. I'll be on a computer in about ten minutes, I'll switch my vote then.

[gandalf5166]

Please start ignoring GI starting now. And he says I'm playing like scum. Even if he is scum, he's not going to win. We only have four possible scum at this point, idiot. And that's INCLUDING him. Scum has lost. Leaving feysal alive long enough to fulfill his wincon isn't going to kill us.

[gandalf5166]

I'd like an undead to claim to me, BTW

You'll be dead by tonight and for the last time that doesn't confirm you, idiot.

[gandalf5166]

You'll be dead by tonight and for the last time that doesn't confirm you, idiot.

Nah, I won't, I'll keep holding on with my Protection Spell if i have to, and judging by your stubborness to get me killed, it seems that's what I'll have to do.

Get fucked

You do realize that you protecting yourself is against the best interest of the town, right? You're one of four people left that can be scum. The key for town at this point is to kill all of you before scum can gain a majority and kill feysal. By protecting yourself you're slowing us down. It doesn't matter whether you're town, town is more likely to win the faster you die.

[gandalf5166]

I have a confession that I'd like to make on behalf of our team that should clear something up, and will almost certainly piss off the rest of my team. We needed points to make sure that if the last scum died today we could still make it. So. Vaya's wincon makes her win points when she kills evil roles and lose points when she kills good ones. We knew that spyrex was evil and we couldn't risk her accidentally killing a good player. So me and vaya killed SpyreX, knowing full well that town had the game in the bag. So that's why GI is being so bizarre, feysal, and why sgr is most likely one of the last two scum, if not the last. And no, you still can't afford to lynch us. At this point, we're almost certain we have the points we need, so we won't be pulling anything else like that again, especially since WC's way of gathering points implicitly requires town to win.

[gandalf5166]

Like I said, ignore GI. He's just being an ass at this point. Luckily he doesn't have any damaging abilities(well, not any serious ones) so he can't fuck things up too bad. I think he's forgetting that everyone knows he's a jester now.

[gandalf5166]

Oh, is gaggle safe now? He doesn't need my ring anymore then.

[gandalf5166]

It's every REALTIME day. Not game day.

[gandalf5166]

FTR, our wincon had nothing to do with killing the dragon specifically. We just knew that he was evil. But yeah, we have no idea who hit gaggle.

[gandalf5166]

The really funny part about GI being such an ass is that we honestly have no idea whether we have enough points yet..... so you dying could very well cause us to lose. And vaya, I suggest you get on the sgr wagon. He's gonna be one of the exceptions to the scum=good theory since he's a necromancer. Lynching him should guarantee our win regardless of his alignment.

[gandalf5166]

If we can lynch sgr today, I will help kill inhim and surye. I realized I really don't want a roleblock or something to keep vaya from getting points for sgr.

[gandalf5166]

It strikes me as funny that Gandalf is the only member of the AP voting when they can pretty much decide the lynch.

Believe me, I would be laughing if it wasn't so damned frustrating.

[gandalf5166]

That and my entire team has decided that we've already won when we have absolutely no idea how many points we have. So they're all just sitting back and letting the game happen like it doesn't matter.

[gandalf5166]

I can understand vaya, since she doesn't want to lose us any points, but GI and wc are kind of forgetting that just because they can't get us any more points doesn't mean they can't help. And actually, the funniest part is that I'm the only one on the team who legitimately doesn't matter anymore since the only undead left is potentially sgr unless I'm forgetting something. The only way I'm relevant anymore is helping vaya. On that note, I'll probably be tracking someone tonight instead of dealing damage. Kill inhim today and tonight I'll gather info.

[gandalf5166]

drop ring

This might at least be moderately useful and it's passive.

[gandalf5166]

drop ring

[gandalf5166]

GI, you're forgetting that feysal ISN'T TOWN. So no, he wasn't going to risk getting killed by us or anything like that just to point out that we had PROBABLY killed spy.

[gandalf5166]

If sgr flips scum, can we kill bowser? >.>

[gandalf5166]

Yes, but bowser is undead /drool

Like I said, only if sgr flips scum.

[gandalf5166]

After his claim, I think inhim is probably town. Sgr/surye is the way to go.

[gandalf5166]

GI, you think there are six scum?

[gandalf5166]

Feysal, gaggle easily could have took the damage in twilight. I don't believe you're told how much damage you have taken until the end of the night regardless of when it was taken.

[gandalf5166]

I'm ignoring GI, because I've already answered those three questions.

[gandalf5166]

Feysal is not Today's lynch, methinks. Thought: if Feysal is telling the truth, he's probably the Lich. I don't disbelieve the claim because that seems like a lot of wasted effort for Mafia. Unless there's a hidden scum in the "confirmed." Oh lord now I'm going to go hang myself at that thought.
SGR is scum, yes.

Lich wouldn't have a kill flavor of ripped apart or whatever.

[gandalf5166]

I will certainly help with my four points of damage haha. And during twilight I'll be attacking inhim. Vaya should help me(unless she has a better idea?). I think he's going to flip town, but it helps the paranoid ones among us and nets us some more points probably.

[gandalf5166]

Ah, true. I had forgotten about that. I think it's unlikely he is undead, however......... I'll do it anyways, w/e. We probably have enough points at this point.

[gandalf5166]

^WC, *hinthint*.

[gandalf5166]

^WC, *hinthint*.

I'm not getting your hint. I didn't heal Gaggle, I didn't attack Gaggle either. I've been playing strictly defense and will continue to do so until we walk out of here with a W under our belt.

I was implying that you should heal him. Did we already claim that you were a healer? I thought that was still a secret and that you were our mystery man. >.>

[gandalf5166]

GI is a fucktard. Like I said, pretend he isn't there.

[gandalf5166]

I don't lose points for anything, idiot. I gain a point for every undead I kill. There's no penalty for being wrong.

[gandalf5166]

Oh that's right. Thank god. Snow_bunny didn't give you a way to fuck us over too badly.

Haha. If I could lose points I'd be playing differently, idiot. Remind me what the fuck you're currently doing to help us win? *crickets*

[gandalf5166]

Setup was good, I think that there was some inconsistency throughout the game that started to piss me off towards the end, but running a game this complicated was probably pretty hard. How many points did we manage to get?

[gandalf5166]

Meh, I'm going to count this as a win by the by.

You do that. Oh, by the way, let me dig up that quote.......

[gandalf5166]

Eh, I can't find the quote, but you can go die of shame in a corner if you want now, GI.

[gandalf5166]

Oh man, you get off saying that? You?

Could you have actively TRIED to play scummier?

I didn't get lynched, did I? Whereas in your case, everyone knew you were AP but WANTED TO LYNCH YOU ANYWAYS JUST TO GET YOU TO SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[gandalf5166]

@Gand: Not to mention, no one seriously went after you while I was in the game since I spent the entire time calling you conf town.

You did a good job. Not debating that.

Oh man, you get off saying that? You?

Could you have actively TRIED to play scummier?

I didn't get lynched, did I? Whereas in your case, everyone knew you were AP but WANTED TO LYNCH YOU ANYWAYS JUST TO GET YOU TO SHUT THE FUCK UP.

You didn't get lynched because I claimed a FUCKING COP INNOCENT on you and people thought we were so town that they BELIEVED ME.

Thanks to Kats.

Also, huh... Why did GreyIce get modkilled?

For being an ass in general, but look at the last night in our QT.

[gandalf5166]

We had 11 points, not 8. Vaya was supposed to get two points for every kill, not one.

[gandalf5166]

BTW SNOWBUNNY, HOW MANY POINTS DID ICEYCUPCAKE MANAGE TO GET?

Look at the fucking spreadsheet, jesus. Two.

[gandalf5166]

I only got one, but my role wasn't really very good at it's job, especially since S_B nerfed the crap out of it by making my favored enemy bonus only apply once if I struck the same person twice. That and our team didn't have any ways of figuring out whether my targets were undead or not. I was trying to kill RBT, but I stopped doing that because that was around the time we started trying to play good boys.

[gandalf5166]

Also if anyone can give me a points breakdown of each member of the Adventure Party, it'd be much appreciated.

Vaya: 3 points (lynched Riceballtail, killed SpyreX and Surye)
Gandalf: 1 point (killed Surye)
GreyICE: 2 points (19 votes, 1 point for 7)
WrathChild: 2 points (survived)

Vaya's total should be six, remember.

[gandalf5166]

I distinctly remember it saying two points.......... I'm too lazy to check though.