Mini 666 - This Could Be Mafia - MOD ABANDONED

[populartajo]

Positive Vote : No lynch.

Am I doing it right?

[populartajo]

Several people jumped as a two things fell out of the sky.

One was a giant blackboard, with several pieces of chalk.

The other was a woman with her hair up in a large bun shape and thick spectacles. It was Sarah Palin. She picked up a piece of chalk, and began to write on the blackboard.

Vote Count Equations At the Moment:

Voodo = +TonyMontana+Falcone = 2
Falcone = +Timeater = 1
No Lynch = +populartajo = 1
Timeater = +fuzzylightning = 1
Timmy Bot = -Vivian Darkblaam = -1
Vivian Darkblaam = -fuzzylightning = -1
TonyMontana = +Voodo-TonyMontana = 0
Battousai = = 0
fuzzylightning = = 0
Grimmy = = 0
Iron Man = = 0
Muerrto = = 0
nhat = = 0
populartajo = = 0

Not Voting = +Battousai-Battousai-Falcone+Grimmy-Grimmy+Iron Man-Iron Man+Muerrto-Muerrto+nhat-nhat-populartajo-Timeater+Vivian Darkblaam-Voodo = -3

Heh. This should be fun.

[populartajo]

Positive Unvote: No lynch
Positive Vote: Timeater

:s

[populartajo]

That has to be the latest EBWOP Ive ever seen. Timeater, any reason for that playstyle or are you using it just here?

[populartajo]

Vivian, whose alt are you?

[populartajo]

That has to be the latest EBWOP Ive ever seen. Timeater, any reason for that playstyle or are you using it just here?

[populartajo]

Gonna ask to be replaced, not really vibing with this game and I have several other open games I'd like to concentrate on. Sorry!

? How many games are you in?

[populartajo]

So you're an alt? If my information is correct Timeater is playing just 2 opens, including this one.

[populartajo]

So you're an alt? If my information is correct Timeater is playing just 2 opens, including this one.

Why in

bloody blazes

are you minding this so much? Sad to see a scumbuddy leave?

What?!11

[populartajo]

Nhat I want a detailed explanation of what you just posted.

[populartajo]

Why do you care so much about the number of games that timeater is in?

Because I researched his profile and he's only playing in two at the moment. So:
a) he's an alt of someone.
b) he plays in another site.
c) he's lying and therefore he's scum that squirmed as soon as he realized the majority of people were voting for him.
In all the cases above his explanation of him not really vibing this game, even though he was asking to be the negative lynch of the day, makes me wonder about his play.
Now, nhat can you explain why did you post "Sad to see a scumbuddy leave?" What exactly made you think that? I really hope you were joking.

[populartajo]

Errr. This is too fast guys. If he wants a replacement then we wait for the replacement. If he doesnt want a replacement then Id suggest waiting for 3-4 more pages to suspect at least another person.

Positive Unvote : Time.

[populartajo]

People, come on now. Since when is wanting a replacement a scum tell? I'm with popultajo on this one. If time isn't scum, then I bet at least one scum person is on his wagon. But unfortunataly, we would have to lynch time first, and leaves a whole bunch of WIFOM.

FOS: timeater

, I don't like how you insult a player and came on so aggressive. Reminds me of another player.

Why do you FOS him if you dont think he's scum?

[populartajo]

Unvote

FOS: Iron Man and P.Tajo

Id like to see some input from these fellows.

Grimmy
bring out the lurkers!!!

Errr, why am I considered a lurker?

[populartajo]

Have I been replaced yet? *poke skitzer* He hasnt said anything to me about it.

His playstyle didn't seem town to freak like that when under fire and turn tail and run. If he is town he needs to grow his skin thicker. If he's scum he needs to learn how to throw off suspiscion without panicking. Rest assured if he becomes in danger I'll unvote. Still waiting for his replacement.

Assumptions like this are really starting to annoy me. You dont know me, you dont know how I play the game, and you dont know why I'm leaving. The only "personal attack" I made was to call vivian a "newbiegirl" and try to pull her strings a little because her posts seem to convey that she was obviously an alt, this irritating me greatly. I didn't intend to be "mean" or "pissy" and if I did, I'm sorry.

The fact of the matter is I cannot give this game the attention it deserves and so I decided to ask to be replaced. Thats all there is to it. The facts are I gave you something of a claim to try to get the negative lynch majority, part a show of good faith and part a proactive townie initiative. My replacement will be able to confirm this.

Have fun!

Why do you keep defending yourself if you want to get replaced?

[populartajo]

Why do you keep defending yourself if you want to get replaced?

Am I allowed to respond to that? A: Because Skitzer has yet to replace B: I want my replacement to have a fair chance C: I care about the town winning

How the hell do you have time to answer to this and you say you dont have time for this game?

[populartajo]

I'm wondering how the voting affects things if it only takes three negative votes to prevent a majority from being possible, even if the rest of the town is voting for someone. Presumably there's some balancing factor here, or a three man scum team could effectively force a standstill on day 1 rather than let their buddy be lynched.

Maybe that's where the negative majority comes in?

Explain.

[populartajo]

We need to lynch Ergo. I find his wagon full of information.

Positive Vote: Ergo

[populartajo]

We need to lynch Ergo. I find his wagon full of information.

Positive Vote: Ergo

Because of his predecessor or...?

Predecesor. Timeater asked for a replacement but he kept posting in the thread, like someone that really wanted to stay. I assume he asked for a replacement when things were against him because you can see that he was having fun when he asked for a negative lynch.
Also, many people jumped against or with him.

[populartajo]

lol this is weird and interesting, skitzer I love you.

@Vivian, I dont think that will do anything, and why are you voting for someone named Timmy Bot (not listed)?

Random vote,

Positive Vote: Falcone

Negative Vote: Timeater

Bwuhahahahaa.

Anyways. I was thinking it over, anyone want to see what happens with a negative vote majority?

Everyone negative vote me, lets see what happens!

@_@

Gonna ask to be replaced, not really vibing with this game and I have several other open games I'd like to concentrate on. Sorry!

[populartajo]

I was just pointing that it was strange that Timeater asked a replacement for not "vibing" with this game. He was really enojying it until there were like three votes on him.

[populartajo]

@Tajo: Why did you ignore the post(s) in which I ripped into Tim that immediately preceeded his replacement request?

What posts?

[populartajo]

@ptaj
This portion of 26

Additionally, that was not a "softclaim"*, Timeater. That was a full-on nameclaim, and it was also stupid.

*A softclaim being when a player alludes to aspects of their role without making definite statements. ie. "Player X probably won't die tonight" as doctor or "You guys would definitely regret lynching me" as SuperSaint.

30

If you know what a softclaim is, why did you use the term improperly?

What bearing does the potential whackiness of this setup have on whether or not you should claim at the top of Page 2? Are you town yielding the one bit of knowledge you hold over the scum, or are you just scum trying to take advantage of unconventional surroundings?

If you are confident that anti-wagoning an NPC will not do anything

and

that it won't have any real effect on us, what's the harm in trying?

Are you reading what I'm posting or just looking at my gender symbol and the pretty little butterfly?

Not only did I lay into his actual content, some sections of that post were pretty hard on his writing style too.

and also 33

@TE: Now, that is a place where the wackiness of the setup comes into play. A professional tennis ball runner could be so good at running (away) that he's effectively bulletproof. He could busdrive night actions by swtiching the balls he give to players. He could have learned how to be a hider from dodging vollies. Having a very minor "profession", he could simply be a townie. Or the name of the role could have no bearing at all on what the role actually does.

So no, we really can't tell what your role is from the name. Though I will note that you intended your name claim to serve as a full-claim (for whatever reason) and ask you emphatically not to give a genuine claim (for the time being at least).

As for your last statement, that is what "newbiegirl" seemed to imply.

He asked to be replaced in 39. (Think about it, even if he wasn't miserable in this game; if he had to choose one game to replace out of, why not the one where everybody's suddenly started giving him crap?)

Do you want me to comment on what specially? I already said what I think about Timeater. Why are you defending him that much?
Not sure what does Muerrto agreeing with me means. For now Im waiting for Ergo and his analysis.

[populartajo]

Whats the case on Grimmy, huh?

[populartajo]

I had read the game at the point when I made my first post, but I figured the Timeater thing was probably the most important for me to address straight away. I actually wrote a much larger post about vote mechanics and numbers for a lynch, then had to delete most of it when I realised that skitzer had specified in one of the opening posts that it was seven to lynch.

For now Im waiting for Ergo and his analysis.

It's pretty much too early for real analysis. Grimmy made a couple of obvscummy moves, but I'm not going to consider a vote there until he provides some sort of defence. There's not really anything more for me to say about Tim, I can only speculate as to his motives for dropping out when he did. I will say that he didn't seem to me like the type to shy away from conflict, though.

What obvscummy moves?
I skimed Grimmy's post and I feel so far satisified with it. Do all his voters feel that way or not?

[populartajo]

Tajo seems to be looking worse and worse.

Why?

Seeing the case against tajo makes it hard to look past him because his play has been slightly odd,

What odd play?
People stop being lazy and quote things. Give your own reasoning. Either you are scum picking me as the easy target or you just dont have thinking of your own.
Now nhat. Answers in bold.

I can't seem to get over this feeling I'm getting from populartajo. His posts in isolation:

0. Positive votes no lynch (WTF?)

Random

1. Quotes mod and expresses amusement at the vote setup (the quotes to pad out his posts is something that recurs often)
2. Unvotes NL and votes Timeater (again, no explanation)

Semirandom stage comined with a gut feeling about his eagerness to be negative lynched. No need to explain that in those stages of the game

3. Points out a "late" EBWOP (I still don't see what's so bad), asks timeater about his playstyle (Don't see how this question is useful)

Err, he could be scum and Im asking about his meta?. The late EBWOP was joke.

4. Asks about vivian's alt (dunno why it's relevant, but eh, null)

Yeah, null, socialization, you know? Also, more information about her

5. Quotes his post 3
6-7. Questions timeater's # of games, and whether or not he has an alt.
8-9. Flabbergasted by my questioning him about caring about timeater so much

Yes, let me pressure him the way I want. Not any of your business

10. Tries to build a case to show how knowing the # of timeater's games matters (and pushing it HARD)

I dont think it was that hard and I've seen scum doing this many times, do you?

11.

Errr. This is too fast guys. If he wants a replacement then we wait for the replacement. If he doesnt want a replacement then Id suggest waiting for 3-4 more pages to suspect at least another person.

Positive Unvote : Time.

(The waiting 3-4 pages to suspect another person looks strange to me. What's the point? Sort of arbitrary to decide to wait so long before looking at other suspects)

What?? I prevent a quick wagon and you find me suspicious?

12. Quotes Battousai's FoS and fires off dumb question.

Blah, blah, blah.

13. Quotes Grimmy's FoS where he falsely accuses tajo of lurking, calls him on it (fair enough)

Finally.

14-15. Quotes Timeater and rags on him for posting while waiting for his replacement
16. Quotes Ergo about his thoughts on the vote setup, adds one word
17.

We need to lynch Ergo. I find his wagon full of information.

Positive Vote: Ergo

(So we need to lynch him? This is not a good explanation. At all.)

Funny how you missed the part where his wagon is full of information. I still think he's a pretty good lynch for D1.

18. Still pushing that timeater is scummy because he posted while waiting for a replacement (and getting very old)

Very decent reasoning in this stage of the game.

19. Inexplicably quotes timeater a bunch of times. Literally explains nothing.

I thought it wasnt necessary...

20. Gives explanation of post 19 (after being chided)
21. Quotes VD about ignoring her posts, he asks for follow-up (fair enough)
22. Quotes VD's megapost and accuses her of defending timeater (she wasn't)

Accusation? How do you know whats she tinking?

23.

Whats the case on Grimmy, huh?

(read the game and find out )

Stop messing with my scumhunting!!111

24. Defends Grimmy for whatever reason.

I liked the tone of his post. That doesnt make me scum, you know?

In a nutshell, strange voting and timing (saying that timeater's wagon was growing too fast, unvoting, then trying to resurrect it after he was replaced), the strange questions, and him defending Grimmy without providing reason besides "I feel so far satisfied".

BS case. Read above

unvote
vote - populartajo

[populartajo]

Why?

Well, I would rather lynch someone because they're scummy as opposed to the lynch just giving us information. :/ I mean, Time hasn't really done much wrong other then a bit of weird play at the beginning.

And what did I do for be lynchworthy?

[populartajo]

Populartajo, I mostly agree with your judgment of nhat's case, but you do need to explain one thing.

How did you go from this:

Errr. This is too fast guys. If he wants a replacement then we wait for the replacement. If he doesnt want a replacement then Id suggest waiting for 3-4 more pages to suspect at least another person.
Positive Unvote : Time.

To this:

We need to lynch Ergo. I find his wagon full of information.Positive Vote: Ergo

In the time between those two posts, you didn't really do anything to try and suspect any other players. What information did Timeater's (Ergo's) bandwagon contain at the time you made your second post that it didn't contain at the time of your first post?

I still think Ergo (Timeater) is a very decent lynch for this exact moment of D1. Pretty much everyone reacted to it and I still think his behavior is questionable. See previous posts for elaboration.
Now I did stop the wagon for going too fast. Either town or scum, speedwagons dont give enough information for posterior days.
You seriously cant blame me for that.

[populartajo]

Why?

Well, I would rather lynch someone because they're scummy as opposed to the lynch just giving us information. :/ I mean, Time hasn't really done much wrong other then a bit of weird play at the beginning.

And what did I do for be lynchworthy?

Wanting to lynch someone solely because of information. And how much will we really gain from that, anyway?

Read post 153. Emphasis in "this exact moment"
Does that make me scum? Really?

[populartajo]

Why?

Well, I would rather lynch someone because they're scummy as opposed to the lynch just giving us information. :/ I mean, Time hasn't really done much wrong other then a bit of weird play at the beginning.

And what did I do for be lynchworthy?

Wanting to lynch someone solely because of information. And how much will we really gain from that, anyway?

Read post 153. Emphasis in "this exact moment"
Does that make me scum? Really?

Couldn't the same be said for you, that your wagon would be full of information as well? :/

Anyway, I'm a bit too scatterbrained trying to do homework and pay attention to this game. I'll post tommorow~

Oops, guess my unvote unvoted both my votes.

Negative vote: Jimmybot

Yep. But the difference is that I never acted scummy unless you're assuming that valid reasoning against an scummy reaction is scummy.
You just arent paying attention. Come back tomorrow, kay?

[populartajo]

Tajo, are you saying that you did know what the case on Grimmy was and deliberately played dumb? I'm looking for an explanation for this:

I skimed Grimmy's post and I feel so far satisified with it. Do all his voters feel that way or not?

This is a slightly odd thing to say, given that you apparently didn't know what the case against Grimmy was before he made that post. What about the post satisfied you?

1. I already said I didnt know the case on Grimmy. Not having read it completely, I did skim over his post and I felt a relaxed tone.
2. Last personal reason. I always use this as a scumhunting technique. I usually ask for reasons in a wagon to find out who has good reasoning and who just jumped in it.
Fine?
Ergo, can you make a general comment of all the players here?

[populartajo]

Incidentally, I'll do a roundup at some point. Are you worried that I'm too focused on you?

You replaced a suspected player. I thin you can comment in others as well as replacements usually do. Rihgt?
And I dont get your question about my scumhunting. Rephrase?

[populartajo]

Populartajo, I mostly agree with your judgment of nhat's case, but you do need to explain one thing.

How did you go from this:

Errr. This is too fast guys. If he wants a replacement then we wait for the replacement. If he doesnt want a replacement then Id suggest waiting for 3-4 more pages to suspect at least another person.
Positive Unvote : Time.

To this:

We need to lynch Ergo. I find his wagon full of information.Positive Vote: Ergo

In the time between those two posts, you didn't really do anything to try and suspect any other players. What information did Timeater's (Ergo's) bandwagon contain at the time you made your second post that it didn't contain at the time of your first post?

I still think Ergo (Timeater) is a very decent lynch for this exact moment of D1. Pretty much everyone reacted to it and I still think his behavior is questionable. See previous posts for elaboration.
Now I did stop the wagon for going too fast. Either town or scum, speedwagons dont give enough information for posterior days.
You seriously cant blame me for that.

This is not an answer to my question. Let me be a little more specific. If Ergo is lynched and turns out to be protown, what would you learn from that? If Ergo isl ynched and turns out to be scum, what would you learn from that? Which of these (hypothetical) pieces of information would you have learned in the event of an Ergo-lynch at the time of your second post, but not at the time of your first post?

The unvote was based on purely security reasons.
The revote was based on purely scumhunting reasons.
I think this was pretty obvious in my last posts.
Shadowgirl, happy with my reasons?
Muerto, you were the one agreeing with me, IIRC.
Ergo needs to post that analysis ASAP.

[populartajo]

tajo, why are you ignoring Falcone's question again and again?

In other news...

Mod, perhaps I voted wrong, but I want a positive vote on populartajo without a negative one. Or, I could:

unvote
positive vote - populartajo

Im not ignoring them. If he thinks that then he'll let me know. Ill answer what he needs although all the information he needs is prob there..
Who are you, Falcone's servant?
You still think Im scum?

[populartajo]

tajo, just because I'm curious to how you answer Falcone's question doesn't make it any less valid. Besides, the question is partly stemming from my PBPA of you in which you didn't really explain your vote on Erg0 very well besides stating that there's info to be had in his lynch.

You ducking the point is just making you look scummier.

1. Im not ducking the point. YOU ask me a question and Ill answer it.
2. Have you heard of informative wagons?
3. What do I win as scum?

Also, you trying to suggest an Falcone/Nhat connection so as to cast attention away from yourself wouldn't even fly in a Mafia game solely consisting of Special-Olympians.

When did I suggest a Falcone/Nhat GAME connection? You're so funny /pain.

[populartajo]

Theory: Common sense, nhat. We differentiate people supporting the wagon with dumb/good reasons. We differentiate people against the wagon with good/dumb reasons. Also we can gather a lot of information and check the reasons people did that or that will give when the results are shown.
Homework : analyse all the players in the interactions shown in class.
Class dismissed.

[populartajo]

@Falcone, what question do you want me exactly to answer? Can you rephrase that question?
@Vivian and all here: does my reasoning belong more to a town player or more to a scum player? Yes, no, why?
The Ergo debate is interesting. But you guys dont seem to like the way I play this game.

[populartajo]

The key here is that I didnt stop liking Time/Ergo's lynch.
Ill make a timeline for you.

Fact:

Timeater acts scummy and asks for a replacement even though he kept defending himself in the thread. That means he did have time for this game and escaped from it for whatever reasons.

Tajo's reaction :

Thinks prob scum. Pushes the case.

Fact:

Timeater is speedwagoned.

Tajo's reaction :

Still thinks he is prob scum. But stops the wagon for being too early for a lynch. (not enough information on other players) Also gives time for the replacement to shine.

Fact:

The wagon is stoped. Ergo replaces. Conversation settles.

Tajo's reaction :

Still thinks Time/Ergo is prob scum. Time to scumhunt and to gather information on other players. Thinks that he's a good lynch for D1 as everyone reacted to it and STILL thinks he's prob scum.

I thught that was pretty clear.

Can you answer my question?

[populartajo]

Your play with regards to Timeater is more likely to come from scum, in my opinion. You tried to resurrect a dead wagon for bad reasons (which you still haven’t fully explained, by the way, but I’ll come back to that) at a time where another player (Grimmy) was at L-2 for, again in my opinion, decent to good reasons.

Except it wasnt a dead wagon in my mind. Except it wasnt for bad reasons. Except Grimmy's case has nothing to see with this case.
The point is that if Grimmy is so scum in your mind and Im only scum if he is, then why are you pushing only mine's so hard?

I'm starting to see tajo's point about the unvote/vote, BUT I think that the vote for information is leaning towards scummy than town.

I cant believe no one thinks here that we can gather valuable information of a lynch. IN D1!!

- Erg0 is an informative lynch: You've yet to actually say what we learn depending on his alignment.

Do I have to give you everything? Assuming, you are really scumhunting, what information could you gather of Ergo's and Tajo's possible lynch?

It seems you're the one who's trying to lynch someone based on a bad reason

What bad reason?!!

Yeah, that might be well and good, but you were suggesting that lynch on page 5 of day one. The amount of info that could have been collected at that point in time would have been minimal.

I know that. Why do you think I unvoted when the wagon went crazy? I knew that my proposal wouldnt get Ergo lynched in page 5. I knew that it was going to generate answers, reactions, etc. Why would I as scum push a bold but decent wagon instead of letting you destroy each other?

But I'll ask this, do you still support an Erg0 lynch right now?

Yes sir.

I definitely get the impression that you're reeling under unexpected scrutiny. You weren't expecting to have to explain what information to take from the Erg0 wagon or why you unvoted and revoted, and you're largely pulling reasons out of your ass.

Not true.

I'm kind of up in the air as to which it is. I certainly do get the impression that the ideas you're trying to transmit (the idea of the "exact moment" for example) are real and genuine, but that you're having difficulty expressing them and you don't understand why the town objects. On the other hand, what you did was pretty damn anti-town, and that doesn't just fly out the window because there's a strong possibility you were being scummy by accident.

Finally some decent reasoning.
Im giving you all that I have. I dont know if Im being understood but Im trying. The point is that until now NO ONE has given me a good damn reason for doing what I did as scum. Why cant I be anything but scum?

What, are you Grimmy's and populartajo's third scum buddy? You manage to blow hot and cold about both Grimmy and populartajo in the same post.

Joke, right?
Im really worried with Falcone's reasoning. Lately I was thinking he was one of those scumhunter magnifiques. But he's just pushin my case to unexpected levels. The idea of me being a townie hasnt crossed your mind, has it?
Falcone, what do you think of Ergo's case and lurking? Do you think is a bad case?

Wheres Muerrto and Ergo?
Mod: Prod them.

[populartajo]

EBWOP

Your play with regards to Timeater is more likely to come from scum, in my opinion. You tried to resurrect a dead wagon for bad reasons (which you still haven’t fully explained, by the way, but I’ll come back to that) at a time where another player (Grimmy) was at L-2 for, again in my opinion, decent to good reasons.

Except it wasnt a dead wagon in my mind. Except it wasnt for bad reasons. Except Grimmy's case has nothing to see with this case.
The point is that if Grimmy is so scum in your mind and Im only scum if he is, then why are you pushing only mine's so hard?

I'm starting to see tajo's point about the unvote/vote, BUT I think that the vote for information is leaning towards scummy than town.

I cant believe no one thinks here that we can gather valuable information of a lynch. IN D1!!

- Erg0 is an informative lynch: You've yet to actually say what we learn depending on his alignment.

Do I have to give you everything? Assuming, you are really scumhunting, what information could you gather of Ergo's and Tajo's possible lynch?

It seems you're the one who's trying to lynch someone based on a bad reason

What bad reason?!!

Yeah, that might be well and good, but you were suggesting that lynch on page 5 of day one. The amount of info that could have been collected at that point in time would have been minimal.

I know that. Why do you think I unvoted when the wagon went crazy? I knew that my proposal wouldnt get Ergo lynched in page 5. I knew that it was going to generate answers, reactions, etc. Why would I as scum push a bold but decent wagon instead of letting you destroy each other?

But I'll ask this, do you still support an Erg0 lynch right now?

Yes sir.

I definitely get the impression that you're reeling under unexpected scrutiny. You weren't expecting to have to explain what information to take from the Erg0 wagon or why you unvoted and revoted, and you're largely pulling reasons out of your ass.

Not true.

I'm kind of up in the air as to which it is. I certainly do get the impression that the ideas you're trying to transmit (the idea of the "exact moment" for example) are real and genuine, but that you're having difficulty expressing them and you don't understand why the town objects. On the other hand, what you did was pretty damn anti-town, and that doesn't just fly out the window because there's a strong possibility you were being scummy by accident.

Finally some decent reasoning.
Im giving you all that I have. I dont know if Im being understood but Im trying. The point is that until now NO ONE has given me a good damn reason for doing what I did as scum. Why cant I be anything but scum?

What, are you Grimmy's and populartajo's third scum buddy? You manage to blow hot and cold about both Grimmy and populartajo in the same post.

Joke, right?
Im really worried with Falcone's reasoning. Lately I was thinking he was one of those scumhunter magnifiques. But he's just pushin my case to unexpected levels. The idea of me being a townie hasnt crossed your mind, has it?
Falcone, what do you think of Ergo's case and lurking? Do you think is a bad case?

Wheres Muerrto and Ergo?
Mod: Prod them.

Muerrto, thoughts?

[populartajo]

Editor's note: This was supposed to be posted at 11:30 (GMT-05) For some reason I didnt hit submit and let my computer turned on until I came back to click submit.

Fuck!!!!!!!! I had a nice post ready to be submitted (post by post analysis after my infamous post) and I hitted F5. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Just read Muerrto's post. Ill answer it later but I think we just catched either scum or a very dumb/lazy player.
Will try to summarize, this time analyizing each player.
In special order:

Vivian :

overall nice response to the happenings so far. Isnt afraid of calling craplogic and uses the best reasoning in the crowd. Pretty much town.

Batoousai :

I like his posting. Callin me an overanalyzer isntead of possible scum is protwon response. Second in best reasoning of the crowd. Slightly protown.

Nhat:

Although he was the first attacking me I can understand the point of his attacks. Doesnt agree with my logic but uses good reasoning and so far has reacted protown to the happenings. Slightly protown.

TonyMontana and Voodo :

are these people in the game?!! Voodo is slightly protown for semidefending Timeater. Tonymontana not so much for obvious lurking after voting the most suspected player. More input is needed from these guys.

Grimmy

: Scummy behavior at the beginning of the game. However I really liked his comeback post. Semisuspecting his attackers and accepting a mistake in the tone he did is slightly protown response. However for the actions previously commented, he's pretty much neutral.

Shadowgirl:

Still dont know if this girl is scum or isnt just paying attention. Joins the group of thinking Timeter asking a replacement is null tell. Joins the attackers of my case. Low posting. Neutral.

Falcone

I liked his posting until he started to push my case to uenxpected levels. Kept pushing the Grimmy's case until he started to attack me. Slightly scummy. Hope he's just some tunnelvisioned Slightly protown.

Timeater/Ergo

Timeater did what I call a D1 scummy action. I already explained why. Im not 100% sure he's scum but I definitely know his lynch is full of information. Ergo's active lurking doesnt tranqulize me. Still hasnt posted what I think a replacement should post.

Now comes the interesting part.

FuzzyLightning

One thing I noticed about this player is low average of posting and the way he went to think Tmeater could be scum, therefore agreeing with my logic......

As I said earlier, Timeeater's play was just weird, and I have seen it before from someone else, but his play this time has led me to wonder if maybe he really is scum just trying to get out because he couldn't hack it. Will wait to see what Erg0 has to say now.

.......to think this.

I am slightly torn between Grimmy and tajo. Seeing the case against tajo makes it hard to look past him because his play has been slightly odd, as noted by nhat. I think, following his reaction to Grimmy's post maybe there is some buddying up going on there, and I think 1 of them is probably scum. My guess is tajo, so positive vote: tajo

Notice he has only 5 posts in the game. Where did he get the conclusion that there might be a scum between Grimmy and me? In Falcone's Dojo? This doesnt make sense becuase a)if there's buddying then both have to be scum not just one and b)it was so fucking early to tell who is scum and who isnt with that degree of certainty....... Mildly scummy until he comes back and answers for this.

Muerrto

Pretty much scum.Has gone to agree with me all the game (supporting a decent wagon) to positive vote me. WTF!! I mildly suspected him before because that is usually a scum technique. Agree with a townie in a decent case, push it and then when things go wrong, blame me for it. Also I never lnked you with Ergo. And I still ahve the feeling you're active lurking. Overdefensive much?
How can I go to decent reasoner to obvious scum?!

[populartajo]

Who said no information could be gained from Ergo's lynch?

Why dont you ask all here?

Partly, yes, but only because it would be slightly ridiculous for me to have caught three scum on Day 1.

WAIT. Where did you get that there were 3 scum?

Of course it has. But I honestly think that you make life difficult for yourself by not answering a straightforward question. It would have been much better just to admit that you didn’t have a good reason, or at least not a fully thought through reasoning, when you called for Ergo’s lynch. Dodging questions is a scum tell, and the more you do it, the more you make me think you’re scum.

Im not dodging any question. If my answer doesnt satisfy you for w/e reasons then its your problem, not mine.

I wasn’t aware there was a case against Erg0. If you’re still talking about the fact that Timeater asked for a replacement when there were a couple of votes for him and then kept responding until he was replaced, then yes, I think it’s a bad case.

Oh yes there was a case against Timeater. Why havent you jumped against other players like Muerrto and Fuzzy Lightning that agreed with my case?

And why do you think is Erg0 lurking? He made 7 posts in 10 days, which isn’t a lot, but I don’t think you can argue he’s lurking.

7 posts in 10 days is lurking considering he's in the site frequently. Considering Ive asked him to post a PbP analysis that he hasnt yet.
.......
Falcone, are you scum? Why did you ignore Muerrto's post? If you think Timeater's was a bad case, why have you ignored others agreement to it?
Right now, Im calling Muerrto-Falcone-FuzzyLightning or Ergo scumgroup. Hope Im right.

[populartajo]

FALCONE WHAT FUCKING QUESTION DO YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER? I ALREADY ANSWERED ALL YOU WANT. IF YOU DONT WANT TO SEE IT THEN DONT SEE IT BUT DONT MAKE UP SHIT UP!
Also....
I dont think Im going to get lynched for that. Its dumb to lynch me for THAT and Im pretty sure I wont be lynched today.
..............
Why exactly are you attacking me?
I see it this way.

Timeater's case: Eager player at the beginning. Seems to have fun. Strangely asks for a replacement indicating "not vibing with this game". He somehow keeps defending himself like he doesnt want to be replaced.
Tajo's Verdict : Notable behavior. I push his case. Muerrto joins me.
Falcone's Verdict :

I wasn’t aware there was a case against Erg0. If you’re still talking about the fact that Timeater asked for a replacement when there were a couple of votes for him and then kept responding until he was replaced, then yes, I think

it’s a bad case

.

However, youve failed to attack Muerrto and some subtle supporters like FL. Why is that?

Do you mean Muerrto’s #196? Is there anything especially noteworthy about that post? I certainly can’t blame Muerrto for voting you, if that’s what you mean.

Do you realize he has been agreeing with me all the game and then votes me for the dumbest reason ever when my reasoning is being questioned? Do you think thats what a townie would do?

See above. Please refer to one single post in which someone agrees with you wanting to lynch Erg0 because “his wagon (is) full of information” (#110).

I never said that. You're confusing two different things. Some people, especially Muerrto, agreed with me in the case against Timeater not in the case "his wagon is full of information". Why does he get a free pass?

[populartajo]

Shadowgirl: Still dont know if this girl is scum or isnt just paying attention. Joins the group of thinking Timeter asking a replacement is null tell. Joins the attackers of my case. Low posting. Neutral.

Low posting? I've posted nearly every day since I've replaced in.

Happy Birthday skitzer! <3

This is exactly low posting. Many things have been said and you just post this. Not saying that you're scum but please join the discussion.

[populartajo]

Just because I don't post a lot doesn't mean I am not reading the game. I only say something when I have something to say, and not just to get my post count up. If you look at my other games you will see this. If you read my posts you would see that I looked at both sides of the Timeater thing and I honestly don't really think that Erg0 is scum right now. And I don't believe that both people need to be scum for there to be buddying although it is possible in this instance. I never said that I am certain that one is scum, I said probably, so putting words in my mouth really isn't going to help your case.

Im not putting words in your mouth. Semantics then.
Question: why did you think Timeater was scum then and now you think Ergo isnt scum anymore?
Why did you think Grimmy and myself could be scum together? WHy did you say that one of us probably was scum?
Also the same thing I told Sahdowgirl. Many things have been said. This game isnt about you and me. Comment on Muerrto's and Falcone's behavior.

[populartajo]

Ummm...Popular, would you like to explain the prod request on me when I had posted less than 24 hours earlier? Or did you want to continue cursing in caps...

Why does that make me scum, Muerrto?
Will answer FL's post when I have the time to.

[populartajo]

Wow, just wow.
Claim time then, since I dont want to lose more time.
I could be your watcher, guys and I could win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.
Take that, scumbags and lambs.
Will respond later to everything. At work right now. And Falcone what do you think post 198 want to accomplish?
I still havent seen any reasoning about me being possible town and scum just going against the easy target. (Muerrto, TonyMontana,not sure about Falcone)
And I have seen some shit arguments. Really.
Peace.

[populartajo]

Finally, guys.
TonyMontana's post is utter bullshit and I feel good at least some people realize that.
Notice how Ergo and Muerrto dont give a shit about that post.
And I still dont see enough Muerrto hate. He jumped against me for the dumbest reasons ever.
I REALLY WANT to answer the motherfucking questions but I still dont know who they are. I thought post 198 (summary of a PBP analysis after my infamous post that got deleted) would be enough. I dont know what you want.

[populartajo]

Unvote

No comment on the question I asked of you several times.

Sorry, must have missed it?

Wow, just wow.

[populartajo]

Have erg0 and Muerrto even viewed the thread since the post came up? I don't know because I haven't been staring at this screen for the last couple hours, but how can you say they don't give a shit if they haven't viewed the thread?

You dont get it, do you?

[populartajo]

Sorry for not posting, got busy in a couple of games.

My interpretation of the tony vote- seemed bandwagony. I don't recall him being against tajo's information lynch of erg0, so it not contradicting in that fashion, but if you lynch tajo then I would think part of your case against him is about the information lynch, and saying that the vote against tajo is for information makes me think that is your only reason because of the previous point.

falcone- how can a watcher role be proved, unless there is an investigative role around, I would think that the watcher is an unprovable role, like the doc is.

Tajo- Why claim? I felt that there was no need to claim at L-3. That plus your past play (information lynch and the surrounding, recent posts reponding under pressure)

Unvote, Positive Vote: Tajo

Why the claim?
1) I dont want to be lynched for shit reasons.
2) I dont have enough time this week to defend me of everything.
3) Pretty sure I catched at least two scum in my wagon. Now Im seeing Tony and Muerrto,maybe Ergo as possible candidats.
Your post confuses me.
And Fuzzy, why do you think Ergo and Muerrto (post 211 and 212, respectively) didnt comment anything about Tony's 213, the worst post Ive seen in mafiascum in a while?

[populartajo]

LOL, Tony's 210.
And people can you unvote me?

[populartajo]

Short post, sorry - homework. Comment more tommorow.

This doesnt make sense becuase a)if there's buddying then both have to be scum not just one and b)it was so fucking early to tell who is scum and who isnt with that degree of certainty.......

a) scum buddy up to townsfolk.

If we are lynching people primarily for information, I find your lynch very educational, Tajo.

unvote both
positive vote:populartajo

Not liking the wagon vote. :/

- A bit early for the claim, in my opinion since I don't believe a speedlynch is likely to happen without you claiming. Still, I don't think we should be throwing away power roles at this point. It may be hard to prove, but...

Hey girl, you believed my claim quite fast, huh?
And Battousai, Im confused in a)why do you think the things you cited for voting me are scumtells and b)why do you think my claim cant be proved?

[populartajo]

Who believes my claim and who doesnt?
Will respond to everything when I have a little more time this week.

[populartajo]

Just two words. Busy week. Will come back to my normal posting in weekend.
A) Hey Batto, did you miss the part where I made a case against Timeater/Ergo besides his information lynch, aka I thought he was possible scum? And did you miss the part where I claimed for anger, time reasons and to mess with scum minds? Why wouldnt a townie claim at this point of the game for the given reasons?
B) I might be wrong but I also can catch scum with my ability, right? Roleblocks and the NK?
Poeple if you're town you got to stop acting scummy and pay attention to the game.

[populartajo]

How am I trying to divide the town?
Why isnt people suspecting TonyMontana? Or Muerrto?
What would you gain of my lynch if you're so concentrated in me? What would you do when I come up town?

[populartajo]

Have you noticed you've stopped scumhunting completely recently Tajo?

You're also still pointing OMGUS fingers.

Care to try again?

Except that Im not doing that. If I were OMGUSing, all players here would be scum.
And Im defending myself and Im scumhunting. Hard things to do when all my decent atacks are considered OMGUS because probably all the town is against me?
Tony isnt scum BTW.
Muerrto, what about if you just claim scum? Whats your win condition?

[populartajo]

In the event that you possibly are town, I will look at the people who pushed hard for your lynch and those who had suspicious interactions with you.

Like you?
I would like to have more time to destroy your arguments but today is a busy day. Wait till the weekend.

[populartajo]

Thats why I asked who believed and who didnt believe my claim. Apparently Muerrto has another win condition...

[populartajo]

Thats why I asked who believed and who didnt believe my claim. Apparently Muerrto has another win condition...

Because he doesn't agree that said single line in your pm proves you to be town?

When did I say that?

[populartajo]

It only proves that Muerrto has another win condition and that Tony and apparently you share mine. Therefore Tony and prob you are pretty much town in my eyes.

[populartajo]

That's what mine says! Am I town because I just said that?

What does this post try to accomplish?

[populartajo]

It points out that you're baseing people's innocence on them just saying they have the same win condition as you.

No I dont. Im basing innocences in their REACTIONS to my claim. Tony unvoted me quickly because he has the same win condition. Therefore he's town in my eyes.
Not too sure about Shadowgirl, since her reaction was after a while and could have been crafted, but for now and knowing her style, she's pretty much confirmed in MY EYES.

It only proves that Muerrto has another win condition

Wait this is too fun. Everyone back off a sec and let him explain how what I said above proves I don't have it...even though I knew the line he was referencing above I obv don't have it on my PM.

Go ahead.

Rephrase.
And your win condition again?

[populartajo]

I could win when all threats to the town are eliminated

It's 'this could be mafia'.

Duh.

Would you like to try and post some content? You haven't for about 3 pages now ever since you've come under fire.

Said the hypocrite.
I already did a player analysis. What about you?
One question, if you have the same win condition, why do you think Im scum?

Batto, this is simple. Tony oddly unvoted me because he has the same win condition. Therefore he's town because I have the same win condition (town).

[populartajo]

This is the point:
I make a claim. I add my win condition. (According to Tony only 1 of 5 mini games he looked had the same win condition*)
Tony ODDLY unvotes.
He later explains he did it because he had the same win condition.
If he were scum or if he didnt have the same win condition he wouldnt have said this.
Im not basing his innocence in the fact that he has the same win condition I have. Im basing his innocence in the reaction to my claim. Its a protown reaction. Notice the difference between he (town in my eyes), Shadowgirl (apparently town in my eyes) and Muerrto (not so much town in my eyes).
All three claim to have the same win condition.


*I did a bit of research and I found that "You could win when all threats to the town are eliminated" is somewhat common (but NOT STANDARD) in some threads.
Here's a random sample of 6 win conditions of 6 different games.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one protown player remains alive.

You’re a townie. A townie that can vote and get shot.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated

You win with and are aligned to the town, and win when any and all anti-town forces are eliminated.

You are a Council Member. You have no special abilities except your vote and your intellect. Try to lynch Mafia, and you will win the game.

win condition: all Mafia-aligned players are dead

[populartajo]

Batto, if you're SO convinced Muerrto is town, dont yout hink you should also suspect the people jumping in the wagon? Just saying...
You're lying in that post.
I have a case against Muerrto. (read my previous posts for reference) I dont think he's scum just for that win condition debate. Some people apparently do but you fail to realize that.
And I feel like Im repeating myself.
If Tony were scum he wouldnt have said that or would have unvoted me. Its stupid. Why would he want to link himself with the most suspected player : me, risking a possible lynch and even his?
And while I have doubts about Shadowgirl, I think that knowing her style, its a safe bet to assume she also has that win condition.
Yes, they could lie. But its a STUPID lie and is not motivated for scum motives : lynching me.
Dont you KNOW to analyse people's reactions?

[populartajo]

Also, as much as I like this Muerrto wagon, I hate the reasoning "yes, this has possibilities"
Are you people voting him for just the "win condition" situation or beacuse do you really think he's scum?

[populartajo]

And why did you vote for Muerrto?
I already said that I will answer everyhting in the weekend. Dont you read?
And since when not voting for your top suspect is a scumtell?

[populartajo]

Whats pot kettle black?
Finally, some decent reasoning.
Falcone and Shadowgirl, if Tajo and Tony are prob town then who do you suspect? The people who jumped against him?
Muerrto agreed with me all the game. Then he suddenly turned against me for reasons I still dont understand. When did I link him with Ergo? (BTW, where's this guy?)
Fuzzylightning went to be really sure about me being scum then supported the Muerrto wagon in its climax with "it has possibilities" and then came back to me with such easiness.
My reread later will prob reveal more things. Stay tuned.

[populartajo]

Bad news guy. We had a conference at work Saturday's night and a barbecue in Sunday's and I got stupidly drunk and the post answering all questions will have to wait until I find some peace in my head.
If you really want to help me could you ask again all the exact questions you want answered or at least bring the number of the post you want me to look again.
For now there was no flavour attached to my role. If you want my flavour name its Disturbia.
I suggest for now looking for Muerrto's and FuzzyLightnin's posts. There's something bizarre going on in that wagon.

[populartajo]

And Muerrto IIRC.

[populartajo]

Have you noticed you've stopped scumhunting completely recently Tajo?

[populartajo]

I posted friday. Then it was the weekend. Now it's monday night football.

STOP accusing people of lurking when you don't have a FARKIN clue what lurking is.

That is my ULTIMATE pet peeve in these games.

When did I say you were lurking?
Fuzzy, do you think I was that incredibly lucky to guess your win condition with all the possible win conditions over there?

[populartajo]

I sincerely didn't accuse him of lurking. He just posted a "Mod, Im not voting for myself" with no additional input even though he has been posting relatively considerable in their other games.
Besides supporting my case against Time and then suddenly supporting the wagon against me for the weakest reasons (I never linked him with Ergo), he hasnt done anything notable for scumhunting.
Why do you love him so much, huh?

[populartajo]

Muerrto, you filthy whore
You know I dont have time for this. Wait till weekend for a response. Job is killing my ass right now.
In the meanwhile, can anyone tell me why this guy can't simply believe I am a watcher and that I was extremely lucky to guess his win condition?
Oh yes I have scumhunted. Id let others decide if thats right or not. Maybe becuase of my scumhunting is why you're OMGUSing me right now?
Nice try, scumbag. You dont have a better target, do you?
Should have done this before but I had the tiny little bit thinking that you could have been just a peevish townie.
With this wall of random accusations that Im sure Ill destroy without even reading them, you just proved the filthy scum you are.

Posite Vote : Muerrto

[populartajo]

In the meanwhile, can anyone tell me why this guy can't simply believe I am a watcher and that

I was extremely lucky to guess his win condition?

Posite Vote : Muerrto

We have a winner here.

Positive unvote: Muerrto
Positive vote: populartajo

What does this vote mean?

[populartajo]

I guess I should have added the irony tags since its pretty obvious I have been saying that I DIDNT GUESS my win condition.

[populartajo]

Wow, Falcone you just went to think Im scum, then Muerrto is scum, then Im scum again with such easiness.
Do you agree that much with Muerrto's case?

FOS: Falcone.

Explain.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Im 90% sure Tony and Shadowgirl are townies.

[populartajo]

When the fuck did I admit to have guessed my win condition?

[populartajo]

Sigh.. that slip you're proposing is the same as "Yes, Im scum and I just gave away one of the opportunities to save my scummy ass?" * Do you really think that?
If it helps, English is not my first language.
Its pretty obvious that I didnt guess my win condition. What are the odds? I already proved its not a standard win condition.
The argument that scum can have the win condition of town is a better one (since I dont have a scum PM) but I consider it pretty impossible since we know that there may be more win conditions than we know and give scum all possible ones is ridiculous.
So, why cant you think that possibility a) is the real one? Can you explain how Ive acted scummy?

*Note for Falcone: this isnt a slip.

[populartajo]

Kay. I left job early. So. Ill try to summarize. Here are my general thoughts so far.

FAMOUS QUESTIONS

Some people have accused me of dodging questions. I havent. I think all the information needed to explain why I acted like that or that is in this thread. Since Falcone still thinks that I havent answered his question Ill answer him.

Your problem Falcone, is that you think I didnt suspect Timeater at the moment I unvoted him. I did suspect him but I unvoted becuase I wanted to prevent a possible quicklynch. After my unvote, conversation settled down and I KEPT thinking Time/Ergo was possible scum for the reasons previously given. His wagon was full of information. Almost EVERYBODY reacted to it. At that PRECISE moment, If Ergo was lynched and he would have came up scum, then the people jumping in his wagon early (Muerrto, Voodoo) had less possibilities of being his scumpartners, and people defending him (Nhat, Batto, Vivian) should be moderately suspected. If Ergo would have came up town then the people jumping with me for weak reasons are more probable scums (Tony and Grimmy).

You're talking about information gained in a short period of time (between my unvote and my revote). Yes, there was information between these two events but the INFORMATION I was talking about was generated since the moment Muerrto placed his vote on him.

MY CLAIM AND MY WIN CONDITION

Here it is.

I could be your watcher, guys and I could win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.
Take that, scumbags and lambs.

As Falcone has pointed out there are three possibilities regarding my claim.
a)I could be the real watcher and I have a town win condition
b)I could be scum and I somehow have a town win condition in my PM.
c)I should stop playing mafia and spend all my money in lottery tickets becuase I am extremely lucky : I guessed town's win condition.

I already pointed out that reason "c" is going against common sense. Reason "b" feels a little better argumented but it is ridiculous for skitzer to add all possible win conditions in the scum PM. So, my friend Falcone, unless you come up with another possibility, choice "a" is the only one we should consider. IM YOUR FREAKING WATCHER!

MY SCUMHUNTING TECHNIQUES!!!111

To all the people that dont understand why I suspect Muerrto, look at this:

Falcone, what do you think of Ergo's case and lurking? Do you think is a bad case?
Wheres Muerrto and Ergo?
Mod: Prod them.

Muerrto's inmediate response was:

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,
Unvote positive, poisitive vote : Popular
You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.
And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time? Nice. No wonder you had a problem with me agreeing with you about Ergo.

First of all, I must admit I made a mistake when rereading and didnt notice that Muerrto had posted recently so that he didnt need a prod. To be honest, I was expecting a little of decent support since I thought he had experience and could attack the weak reasonings against my case. This explain the "Muerrto, thoughts?" that I added at the end. However, the thing that worried me the most is that he was supporting my theory of Time's flaking until that post, therefore he found me townie. Then,how did I go to decent reasoner to obvious scum just becuase I made a mistake about his frecuency of posting in this game? Oh yes, was it because the majority of players were against me? THE REASONS WHY HE VOTED ME ARENT SCUMTELLS.
I will add more reasoning to my case when I answer his the weekend. I have to go. Thats all for now.
In the meanwhile, could you do me a favor and answer him who has scumhunted more?

Mod: Any news in the replacements?

Sadly, no. I'm having a hard time finding replacements in either of my games.

[populartajo]

Falcone, before I answer can you tell me what do you think of Muerrto?

[populartajo]

Nab, Im still waiting for Muerrto to suspect another player besides me.
Also I think I am being pretty logical, dunno where you get the "more stupid things than the average player."
Falcone you are free to do what you guess is best for town. Speculating about win conditions is valid (since Im basing Tony's innocence and mine on it) as long as we dont out somethin scum shouldnt know. Although I dont know how is this related to your general thoughts of Muerrto...

[populartajo]

Shadowgirl who is scum and why?

[populartajo]

So, do you believe my claim? The thing, my dear shadow girl is that I think Tony is town. Besides him, who do you suspect?
What do you think of Muerrto?
Also, why did you ask a prod on them in this exact moment and not before?

[populartajo]

Nab and all over there: Muerrto is scum. The reasons why he voted me werent scumtells and were just weak reasons to join a powerful wagon like mine. I wouldnt suspect him this much if he hadnt agreed with me in the first part of the game. He just changed his opinions as soon as he thought I linked him with Ergo.
(Im still wondering where the hell did he get this idea for voting me.)
My point is that he couldnt blame for shit reasoning before (because he agreed with me) then why exactly did he vote me?
I realize my play hasnt been optimal after almost all the town went against me. I just tend to get frustrated when Im attacked for weak reasons. But his reasons for his vote were much before this.

[populartajo]

1.That werent my options. Those were Falcone options. Post 360. I just added some flavour, ya know? Read better, please.

2. Tony gave the statistics. I proved (and anyone can do it) that it wasnt a stardard win condition as you meant it to be. Post 273. Read better, please x2

3. It had potential to be a powerful wagon because pretty much all the town considered my vote for Timeater scummy. In fact, post 194 (the post after you voted me) is an answer to 5 diferent players considering me possible scum. My point is what SCUMMY THINGS things did I do to get YOUR vote after post 194? Making a mistake about prodding you? REALLY?

Diescumdie.

[populartajo]

CONCLUSION.
Muerrto is not reading the game and wants my lynch no matter what. He joined a powerful wagon with reasons that arent scumtells after supporting my reasoning and has been lying about my scumhunting, pushing softly my lynch. Also, he hasnt presented a case besides mine-s. Hes not scumhunting and keeps pushing my case even though its pretty obvious that Im town.

Can we please lynch him? Oh yeah, make sure he does a analysis of all players here before, kay?

[populartajo]

I have the feeling that no one has read my case against Muerrto.

[populartajo]

Why do you think he voted for me?

[populartajo]

You said he isn't reading, where it is you who didn't read. In the post you quoted Muerrto from when listing the 3 things against him, the quote even says that Falcone made the list, so I don't get how he wasn't reading.

I was thinking that but this is what he posted.

As Falcone has pointed out there are three possibilities regarding my claim.
a)I could be the real watcher and I have a town win condition
b)I could be scum and I somehow have a town win condition in my PM.
c)I should stop playing mafia and spend all my money in lottery tickets becuase I am extremely lucky : I guessed town's win condition.

How can I possibly worry about suspecting anyone else when

you post stuff like that?

I mean if you flip scum Tony's obv partner but right now I'm quite cool with watching you burn.

He OBVIOUSLY isnt reading since he's accusing me of something Falcone posted. Please pay more attention.

You then say because Muerrto is focused on you he has to be scum. Tunnelvision is a null tell, IMO.

I've been tunnelvisioned as town but thats not the point Im attacking. His attacks on me arent tunnelvisions. He HASNT scumhunted and worst he accuses me of not doing that when its pretty OBVIOUS that at least Im doing a better job in gathering information. I dont know who else he suspects. I have done a PBPA and I have stated my opinions of more than one player. Did he? This isnt tunnelvision.

Another reason you gave for saying Muerrto is scum is that he agreed with you that time was scummy, BUT later decideds to attack you. So what you are saying is that if someone agrees about you for one thing, they must agree with you on EVERYTHING else

No. Im saying that his change of mind is so drastic to be motivated for town motives and his attacks are extremely weak for his experience. Lest put an example. Assume you think a player is scummy. Muerrto supports your reasoning. Therefore Muerrto thinks you're probably town because you're supporting protown behavior and good reasoning. Right? Ok. What would you think of that player if you post this ....
[quote="populartajo]Falcone, what do you think of Ergo's case and lurking? Do you think is a bad case?
Wheres Muerrto and Ergo?
Mod: Prod them.
Muerrto, thoughts? [/quote]
....he posts this

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,

Unvote positive, poisitive vote : Popular

You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.
And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time? Nice. No wonder you had a problem with me agreeing with you about Ergo.

WHERE'S THE FREAKING LINK? WHY DO I DESERVE A VOTE? NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED THIS YET.

You say he is lying about your scumhunting and pushing your lynch softly. Hmm, I happen to agree with his conclusion on your scumhunting for the most part and I don't believe he has pushed your case softly, especially since he has only been attacking you.

Please tell me how my scumhuting is bad. What is scumhunting for you? And yes he's pushing my lynch softly. He posted a bad case some days ago and all that he has been doing now is Tajo is scummy, Tajo uses retarded logic, Tajo lets keep it civil, Tajo why didnt you post that before?. He doesnt have to do much, ya know? You're doing all his work.
Stop defending someone that isnt confirmed town. THINK FOR YOURSELF.


I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO TELL ME IF THE REASONS WHY MUERRTO VOTED ME ARE SCUMTELLS OR EVEN DECENT REASONS.
IM POSTING IN CAPS SO EVERYONE CAN SEE THIS.

[populartajo]

Mod, please delete the last post. Thx.

No.

You said he isn't reading, where it is you who didn't read. In the post you quoted Muerrto from when listing the 3 things against him, the quote even says that Falcone made the list, so I don't get how he wasn't reading.

I was thinking that but this is what he posted.

As Falcone has pointed out there are three possibilities regarding my claim.
a)I could be the real watcher and I have a town win condition
b)I could be scum and I somehow have a town win condition in my PM.
c)I should stop playing mafia and spend all my money in lottery tickets becuase I am extremely lucky : I guessed town's win condition.

How can I possibly worry about suspecting anyone else when

you post stuff like that?

I mean if you flip scum Tony's obv partner but right now I'm quite cool with watching you burn.

He OBVIOUSLY isnt reading since he's accusing me of something Falcone posted. Please pay more attention.

You then say because Muerrto is focused on you he has to be scum. Tunnelvision is a null tell, IMO.

I've been tunnelvisioned as town but thats not the point Im attacking. His attacks on me arent tunnelvisions. He HASNT scumhunted and worst he accuses me of not doing that when its pretty OBVIOUS that at least Im doing a better job in gathering information. I dont know who else he suspects. I have done a PBPA and I have stated my opinions of more than one player. Did he? This isnt tunnelvision.

Another reason you gave for saying Muerrto is scum is that he agreed with you that time was scummy, BUT later decideds to attack you. So what you are saying is that if someone agrees about you for one thing, they must agree with you on EVERYTHING else

No. Im saying that his change of mind is so drastic to be motivated for town motives and his attacks are extremely weak for his experience. Lest put an example. Assume you think a player is scummy. Muerrto supports your reasoning. Therefore Muerrto thinks you're probably town because you're supporting protown behavior and good reasoning. Right? Ok. What would you think of that player if you post this ....

Falcone, what do you think of Ergo's case and lurking? Do you think is a bad case?
Wheres Muerrto and Ergo?
Mod: Prod them.
Muerrto, thoughts?

....he posts this

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,

Unvote positive, poisitive vote : Popular

You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.
And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time? Nice. No wonder you had a problem with me agreeing with you about Ergo.

WHERE'S THE FREAKING LINK? WHY DO I DESERVE A VOTE? NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED THIS YET.

You say he is lying about your scumhunting and pushing your lynch softly. Hmm, I happen to agree with his conclusion on your scumhunting for the most part and I don't believe he has pushed your case softly, especially since he has only been attacking you.

Please tell me how my scumhuting is bad. What is scumhunting for you? And yes he's pushing my lynch softly. He posted a bad case some days ago and all that he has been doing now is Tajo is scummy, Tajo uses retarded logic, Tajo lets keep it civil, Tajo why didnt you post that before?. He doesnt have to do much, ya know? You're doing all his work.
Stop defending someone that isnt confirmed town. THINK FOR YOURSELF.


I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO TELL ME IF THE REASONS WHY MUERRTO VOTED ME ARE SCUMTELLS OR EVEN DECENT REASONS.
IM POSTING IN CAPS SO EVERYONE CAN SEE THIS.

[populartajo]

I refuse to end this day until
a) A replacement has been gound.
b) Muerrto does a player by player analysis.

[populartajo]

Im glad someone finally reads my posts.
@Muerto
I already admitted that modprod was a mistake.
Now, stop evading the question. Why the hell did you vote me in that post?
An when are you going to do that PBPA?

[populartajo]

I dont think skitzer planned somethin to happen but this is a democracy.
HAMMAHHH

Negative Unvote Negative Vote : Jimmybot.

And Im going to ask him politely. Muerrto, can you do a PBPA or a player analysis? I will do one tomorrow.

[populartajo]

Busy as hell so that analysis will have to wait till weekend but what about nightkilling inmunity as well?

[populartajo]

Muerrto, lets do things easier for the two of us. Can you summarize why I am still scum?

[populartajo]

@All
Kay. If I was an ass I apologize but everyone who has played mafia knows that sometimes its pretty frustrating when you DO defend logically but no one catches it until it's too late. I have realized that Im not good when pointing out my ideas and that I sometimes get angry because no one seems to understand me. In fact, I was lynched as a townie lately in a game (still ongoing) for this same behavior and I DEFINITELY dont want it to happen here. You are free to check my post history.
@Muerrto
I will respond your posts later this evening to show how wrong your appreciations are but the curious thing, Muerrto, is that you think I am scum for reasons that are posterior to your vote. There's no reason for that illogical vote, then?
Also how about you comment on all players here?

[populartajo]

I asked to Muerrto this question some days ago.

Muerrto, lets do things easier for the two of us. Can you summarize why I am still scum?

This was his answer.

1. In my experience, when your defense is 'I'm town and you're stupid' you end up being scum. Every post or attack against you was answered with some version of that quote. If that's not the case, try to be more civil and build a logical defense.

I dont see the necessity to explain why this isnt a scumtell. I get extremely frustrated when nobody seems to understand what Im trying to say and being attacked for that. I think this is the way I play this game. I realize its not optimal and that I need to be more logical and less asshole in my reasonings when being attacked. I repeat that I was lynched as town for pretty much same behavior in another game. And Muerrto and others you definetely know that this isnt a scumtell.

2. Turning my agreeing that Time was acting weird/scummy into 'ALWAYS agreeing with you' and my later disagreement with you into a '180' was the biggest stretch I've seen in quite a few games. Either really over-reacting town or stretching scum. It feels more like the second definitely.

All I have to say is this. Muerrto has 10 posts before voting me.

Time's behavior actually reflects just what Popular said. He asked for a replacement, then kept posting, then was SURPRISED when he got replaced

Because if that IS the case he needs to work on that. And according to his posts I gotta agree with Popular, Time seemed to be quite taken with the game.

I agreed with Popular because he was right why do both Popular and Shadowgirl have a problem with that? I never buddied up or anything, I simply agreed.

Its pretty clear that he agrees with me in the majority of his posts before the vote. I understand

totally

is not the right word but the 3 posts (of 9) above show clearly where this accusation comes from. Also, his other non-quoted posts show similarities with my theory about Timeater asking for a replacement.
Apparently there's no problem there. You just keep saying to yourself, "this guy seems to trust me too much. Remember this."
But in his very next post....

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,
Unvote positive, poisitive vote : Popular
You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.
And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time?

Is there a logical reason for that vote? Where's that link?
Things get worst when you take in accoun the level of agreement Muerrto had with me before(see above). That's why I've asked all the game this:

How did I go to decent reasoner to obvious scum in so little time? And why I was scum for those weak reasons?

Interesting fact : my wagon was gaining pretty much momentum in the exact moment of his vote.

3. You have no problem with the massive buddying Tony's been giving you all game. If he's scum and you're town and you have that win condition, why would you all of a sudden take him for obv town just because he says he has it too? Your posts read like you consider him confirmed town when he could easily be scum buddying up. Either you hadn't thought of that or he's your partner. Again siding with the latter.

First, Tony isnt obvtown becuase he has the same win condition. I've been saying this all the game. He's town for HIS REACTION to my claim. I assume that he read my win condition, checked his and realized that IT WAS THE EXACT WIN CONDITION IN HIS PM. Thats why he unvoted when almost all the town was against me, a terrible play if he were scum. He was the first one to react when my claim was being analysed. Notice that Shadowgirl also reacted to my claim and that this almost confirms her as town with my same win condition, although not as much as Tony. You even then said after some time that you had the same win condition but I obviously dont believe you or others that claim to have the same win condition becuase all the town ALREADY KNOW THAT IT IS A REAL WIN CONDITION.

4. You claimed way too early and expected everyone to take it as gospel. When some didn't you became irate and began insulting/attacking them. Again, if you're not scum, you should be able to build a defense and you should expect that the town isn't going to just believe your word. This is mafia. If you're scum and you fake claim however you can fake being angry that people aren't believing you as an appeal to emotion. Again, you've played like the latter rather than the former.

Again I claimed for time/frustration reasons. This paragraph is just an extension of paragraph number 1. THAT IS NOT A SCUMTELL. And its pretty obvious I didnt fakeclaim.
So Muerrto you're going to keep pushing this weak case or are you going to acept that you're finally scum?
Peace.

[populartajo]

Happy scumday tajo!

Mm, it would be a better if you did elaborate a little pickem.

Hey thanks.
And QFT.

[populartajo]

Usual busy week.
For now Im going to say: @Muerrto, stop saying that I only used insults in my case/defense becuase its is not true. Don't you find at least a little bit of logic (even if you dont agree) in my posts?
And even if I had used only insults (which is incredibly not true) THAT IS NOT A SCUMTELL.
Im really worried when two of your cases against me are related to this and one is an accusation of scumbuddying when its pretty obvious that its a terrible play if we both were scum.
Still thinking that his "unreasonable/weak reasons" suspicions and his posterior "I want to lynch Tajo no matter what" are the best thing we have for today.
Also worried with Batto and Grimmy posting. I dont know why I have the feeling they dont read the game and they just want to lynch someone. Does Muerrto case make more sense than mine?

Mod: any news on Ergo and Voodoo? What about Falcone and fuzzylightning? I want to know if they still want me lynched.

The prod gods are angry at Erg0. They send another fiery prod his way.
Voodo? Voodo does not exist anymore. pickemgenius, well that's another story.
Falcone's prod was delayed. It's a zoomin' now.
fuzzylightning stepped into that box, remember? I don't what happened to him.

[populartajo]

I already admitted my vote was because I was ticked he tried to get me prodded when it wasn't needed.

Can anyone explain me why does this deserve a vote?

[populartajo]

Wow, Tajo. Are you purposelly trying to discredit my idea about a lynch of Tony and you by implying that I don't read the thread? Is it because you feel threatened or that since I don't agree with you I must not be paying attention.

No. I say I have the feeling that you want a non-optymal lynch based in "long days are bad" reasoning. I have said that Tony isnt a good lynch if you think Im prob town. There is some information that you dont seem to be reading.

[populartajo]

What reactions? The reactions that arent scumtells?

[populartajo]

Muerrto just proved that,
a)his vote for me wasnt becuase he thought I was scum.
b)the reasons why he thinks Im scum for arent scumtells.
c)cant think in another player as scum besides me.
Dont know if this has to be more obvious. Or dont know why some people prefer my lynch than his... shrug.
............
Grimmy I may be losing something but why exactly are you voting for me? What's your opinion of Muerrto?

[populartajo]

And nothing has change your mind from that? Way to read a game.
Why Falcone?

[populartajo]

Love how you attack me and my way of playing mafia and not my arguments. Love it.
Yes. I'm pissed today so I should stop posting before you all lynch me.
See ya tomorrow.

[populartajo]

Muerrto just proved that,
a)his vote for me wasnt becuase he thought I was scum.
b)the reasons why he thinks Im scum for arent scumtells.
c)cant think in another player as scum besides me.
Dont know if this has to be more obvious. Or dont know why some people prefer my lynch than his... shrug.

Do you agree with me? Yes or no? Why?

[populartajo]

Do I have to prove why this last statement isnt true?
Here are some quotes for you:

Nhat: Although he was the first attacking me I can understand the point of his attacks. Doesnt agree with my logic but uses good reasoning and so far has reacted protown to the happenings. Slightly protown.

Shadowgirl: Still dont know if this girl is scum or isnt just paying attention. Joins the group of thinking Timeter asking a replacement is null tell. Joins the attackers of my case. Low posting. Neutral.

Shadowgirl and Vivian are very far to think Im town.
But I dont think any of them are scum.
So, FAIL!
Yes, I have a bad attitude and I get frustrated when I am attacked for WEAK resoning and no one seems to get my point. Shadowgirl can prove this.
I already apologized for that behavior.
So cut the crap, dude. Seriously. You're looking worst and worst with each post. Stop avoiding my posts. Kay?

[populartajo]

I assume some questions I didnt answer for:
a)not understanding them properly since English is not my first language. (It is Spanish, FYI)
b)lack of time in horrible weeks.
c)my dumb thinking that town can understand everything I post.

[populartajo]

Competent, my win condition is definitely the same in my PM.
I didnt quote my PM. I simply posted my exact win condition. I dont think this is a modkillable offence. Something simliar, IIRC, happened in Mushroom Kingdom Mafia where we semiconfirmed some townies after a Toad (vanilla townie) also posted his win condition. The Mod also forgot to add a sample PM in the front page.
I think something similar, without intention of my part, happened here. My theory is that skitzer thought it wasnt a modkillable offence but there could be the possibility of breaking the game for town so he added the "there may be more that one win condition" and the "not every player has the same condition" notes in his vote counts.
And Im 99.99% sure Tony has the same win condition. The only possible scenario where Tony is scum is he making an incredible gambit to guess that that was my win condition, word by word. So he definitely has the same win condition in his PM. That explains his strange unvote when I was the easiest target for scum in a potential wagon.

[populartajo]

Peg you freaking terse. You dont bring anything new to the table. Im not trying to organize a bitchfest. Im trying people to understand my points and see that for some reason Muerrto has started to ignore me even though Ive proved that his reasons for voting me arent scumtells/ are incredibly weak for a player of his level.
...........
Sigh. It seems we are going to need a lot of replacements.
.........

I don't like Grimmy agreeing with me for the wrong reasons. You don't vote someone for scum just because he's being an ass(or pissy in your words). It's because his reactions have been overblown and his defense is basically 'duh I'm town stupid' is why I suspect him. Town should be able to do better than that.
FoS: Grimmy

Grimmy, any comments of this?

[populartajo]

Just checked
Ergo and Falcone are both missing since the 15th. (Curious,huh?) Probably need replacing.
fuzzylightning is posting in his other game.

Mod: prod him please.

Replacement Boxes are impervious to prods.

[populartajo]

And two of them voting for me. x_x

[populartajo]

Muerrto - 1
Grimmy - 3
Fuzzy - 4
Batto - 5
Ergo - 5
Falcone - 6
PEG - 7
Competent - 8
Vivian - 8
Shadowgirl - 9
Tony - 9.9
Tajo - 10^10000
Nyah nyah.

[populartajo]

Girl, I dont get something. Why do I have a 9 and Tony is your top lynch when I have stated that I believe him to be impossible scum barring some unusual circunstances? Or do you think Im wrong in my Tony appreciation?

[populartajo]

Peg you freaking terse. You dont bring anything new to the table. Im not trying to organize a bitchfest. Im trying people to understand my points and see that for some reason Muerrto has started to ignore me even though Ive proved that his reasons for voting me arent scumtells/ are incredibly weak for a player of his level.
...........
Sigh. It seems we are going to need a lot of replacements.
.........

I don't like Grimmy agreeing with me for the wrong reasons. You don't vote someone for scum just because he's being an ass(or pissy in your words). It's because his reactions have been overblown and his defense is basically 'duh I'm town stupid' is why I suspect him. Town should be able to do better than that.
FoS: Grimmy

Grimmy, any comments of this?

[populartajo]

Is this something you and Muerrto are doing on purpose or what?

[populartajo]

It would be useful that all players post a total list.

[populartajo]

After all Ive explained, do you still think Im scum? And with Tony?

[populartajo]

1. Do you think Muerrto's (not yours) reasons are enough for a vote?
2. I asked some time ago which were your reasons for voting me and you linked me to your previous ones, some pages ago. Do you still think that ALL your reasons cited there for voting me still apply?

-avoiding questions
a)throwing hissy fits when someone votes him
b)attacking players for not defending tajo
c)belittling said players
d)one of the main reasons he wants to vote for muertto (but suspiciously waits a long time before doing so) is that muertto agreed with him at first, then disagreed later
e)alot of OMGUS stuff
f)early claim

Do you still think reasons a),b),c) are scumtells?
Also, reason d) is a lie because I didnt wait a long time before voting him. Where did you get that?
Reason e) is a lie too. Show me where is all that "OMGUS stuff"
And f) I already explained why I claimed early. Why is that a scumtell?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Ironically I left the "avoiding questions" part of Grimmy's reasons to vote me. So I dont repeat myself Ill post this:

I assume some questions I didnt answer for:
a)not understanding them properly since English is not my first language. (It is Spanish, FYI)
b)lack of time in horrible weeks.
c)my dumb thinking that town can understand everything I post.

[populartajo]

Fair nuff.
But why am I wrong?

[populartajo]

Mod, please, VC and whats your policy in deadline lynches?

Not really a point in a vote count if there have been no votes given.
No lynch at deadline. Unless there is a majority of votes.

Dont know if it should be good to go to night with 3 players missing.
I encourage Batto's suggestion to all post a list like some of us have already done.
I am obv happy with my vote. I dont understand why there are votes on Tony when Im 99% sure he isnt scum.
@Shadow: he couldnt have guessed that that was the

exact

win condition.
Its like you guys arent reading what Im posting.
and Batto, you know that the mere existence of a roleblocker intereferes with your idea of keeping me alive, right?

[populartajo]

Shadowgirl and everyone suspecting Tony, if you were scum and you could mislynch a player almost everyone suspects, would you unvote him and post that you have the exact same win condition in your PM?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Thats a ridiculous play if Tony were scum for a bazillion reasons besides the opportunity of mislynching someone with zero collateral damage, the most important being linked with the scummy player.
Therefore, Tony is town.

[populartajo]

The above post doesnt make sense in 100 ways.
Muerro, are you going to keep ignoring me and all that has been posted in thread?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Fuck you new page. ROLF

[populartajo]

Muerrto, do you really think Tony and me are scumpartners?

[populartajo]

I prefer a Tony lynch today, but tommorow depending on the results I might be willing to lynch tajo.

Mmmm.

Tony - 2
Muerrto - 4
Grimmy - 4
Fuzzy - 5
Ergo - 5
Batto - 6
Falcone - 7
PEG - 7
Competent - 7
Vivian - 8

Tajo - 9

Shadowgirl -

Mmmm. Why do you want to lynch me now?

Yeah, as Batt said, lynching a power role day one would not look good. As well, if you get lynched and turn up town and he vouched for you as to have the same condition, that would make him look, don't you think?

How did he know that I posted the exact win condition?
.................
And Muerrto and PEG need to come up with the list almost all players have crafted. Please? Batto, who else is missing?

[populartajo]

I prefer a Tony lynch today, but tommorow depending on the results I might be willing to lynch tajo.

There's just zero rationality in this.
Explain how your view on tajo would change depending on my flip?

I meant results on his tracking, not the flip.

What results can indicate my alignment?

[populartajo]

Lol, what?
Why do you want to lynch me if I have a 9? What extreme information can be gained of my night results to make you want to lynch me?

[populartajo]

Shadow, what do you think about my Muerrto's case?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Considering he's second in your list.

[populartajo]

I could win when all threats to the mafia are eliminated? Really?
Really, Muerrto? Do you think thats the mafia win condition?
.............
I will answer everything about your post later. A bunch of lies. I expected more from you, really.

[populartajo]

LOLWTF?
Muerrto, what are you doing?
1)The quotes from 626 are taken out of context.
2)Maybe you are missing the posts between these last two quotes where Tony admits to have unvoted me because he has the same exact win condition?

How am I trying to divide the town?
Why isnt people suspecting TonyMontana? Or Muerrto?

Why did you vote for populartajo then?
Why do you believe the claim?

Bandwaggoning.
Well, I guess the fact that a line from his claim was identical (As in word for word) to my own town role was what I took notice of first. It's somewhat of a common phrase for pro-town role PMs, and I'm unsure of if you could assume it's being used, judging from what you get as a scum.

Yeah, I kinda thought that, but i did a quick survey of like 5 mini games, and only found 1 instance of it being used.
So it may be regularly used, but it's not a safe bet.

Tony isnt scum BTW.

That's what changed from ridiculous, utter bullshit post (his unexplained unvote) to Tony isnt scum BTW.
STOP LYING YOU SCUMBAG!!11

[populartajo]

Ahhh...

THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!
You cant compare the two situations.
You voted me for ridiculous reasons, things that arent scumtells after agreeing with me (you have finally accepted it). That is a 180 that deserves a vote.
I changed my view of a player because he went from oddly voting and unvoting me to admitting that he unvoted me because he had the exact same win condition. He couldnt have guessed it and he couldnt have guessed I posted the exact same win condition. Therefore HE HAS THE EXACT SAME WIN CONDITION.
HEY, GUYS, THIS ISNT TOO HARD.
Now explain your lie and why did you take those quotes out of context and left out the ones that explained my reactions, SCUMBAG!!
....................
And Shadowgirl, please pay more attention. I already said I could be Disturbia, who could be a watcher.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
I fucked the page.
Mod, could you fix it?

I hope it was that long "ah", because I have a really wide screen and so there wasn't much difference

[populartajo]

Dont avoid my posts, kaybaythx.

[populartajo]

And you (and others) need to do this.


Here is the list thus far (only 5 people minus the rates for yourself):

Tony - 1, 9.9, 2, 2 (3 potential votes)
Grimmy - 3, 4, 3, 4 (4 potential votes)
Tajo - 5, 10, 9, 1 (1 potential vote, 1 fence vote)
Muerrto - 7, 1, 1, 4, 7 (3 potential votes)
Battousai - 3, 5, 6 (1 potential vote, 1 fence vote)
Falcone - 5, 6, 7 (1 fence vote)
Shadowgirl - 7, 9
Fuzzy - 4, 5 (1 potential vote, 1 fence vote)
Ergo - 5, 5 (2 fence votes)
PEG - 7, 7
Competent - 8, 7
Vivian - 8, 8

The potential vote is for if a wagon formed, plus deadline, if they would switch over to make sure there is a consensus and that they feel that they could be scum. I made it so that anything under 5 is a potential vote and 5 is a fence vote (on the fence basically).

Waiting for Muerrto, Competent, pickem, falcone (replacement), Vivian, Ergo (replacement).

[populartajo]

LOL.
Tomorrow. Ill try to be a little more relaxed so you stop attacking the way I am attacking you and start explaining your lies.
And you owe us a PBPA, the rating I posted some minutes ago and your scum claim.
Deal?

[populartajo]

My case is over the thread. Ill quote it for you.

Strange and weak reasons to vote me.

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,
Unvote positive, poisitive vote : Popular
You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.
And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time?

Is there a logical reason for that vote? Where's that link?
Things get worst when you take in accoun the level of agreement Muerrto had with me before. That's why I've asked all the game this: How did I go to decent reasoner to obvious scum in so little time? And why I was scum for those weak reasons?
Interesting fact : my wagon was gaining pretty much momentum in the exact moment of his vote.

Muerrto is scum. The reasons why he voted me werent scumtells and were just weak reasons to join a powerful wagon like mine. I wouldnt suspect him this much if he hadnt agreed with me in the first part of the game. He just changed his opinions as soon as he thought I linked him with Ergo.
(Im still wondering where the hell did he get this idea for voting me.)
My point is that he couldnt blame for shit reasoning before (because he agreed with me) then why exactly did he vote me?
I realize my play hasnt been optimal after almost all the town went against me. I just tend to get frustrated when Im attacked for weak reasons. But his reasons for his vote were much before this.

I already admitted my vote was because I was ticked he tried to get me prodded when it wasn't needed.

Can anyone explain me why does this deserve a vote?

Zero scumhunting.

I've been tunnelvisioned as town but thats not the point Im attacking. His attacks on me arent tunnelvisions. He HASNT scumhunted and worst he accuses me of not doing that when its pretty OBVIOUS that at least Im doing a better job in gathering information. I dont know who else he suspects. I have done a PBPA and I have stated my opinions of more than one player. Did he? This isnt tunnelvision.

Pushing a weak case and attacking the way I play game rather than reading my posts

I dont see the necessity to explain why this isnt a scumtell. I get extremely frustrated when nobody seems to understand what Im trying to say and being attacked for that. I think this is the way I play this game. I realize its not optimal and that I need to be more logical and less asshole in my reasonings when being attacked. I repeat that I was lynched as town for pretty much same behavior in another game. And Muerrto and others you definetely know that this isnt a scumtell.

@Muerrto, stop saying that I only used insults in my case/defense becuase its is not true. Don't you find at least a little bit of logic (even if you dont agree) in my posts?
And even if I had used only insults (which is incredibly not true) THAT IS NOT A SCUMTELL.

Blatant lying

Your defense being 'I'm town and if you don't think so then you're obv scum' is in fact a definite scum tell.

Do I have to prove why this last statement isnt true?
Here are some quotes for you:

Nhat: Although he was the first attacking me I can understand the point of his attacks. Doesnt agree with my logic but uses good reasoning and so far has reacted protown to the happenings. Slightly protown.
Shadowgirl: Still dont know if this girl is scum or isnt just paying attention. Joins the group of thinking Timeter asking a replacement is null tell. Joins the attackers of my case. Low posting. Neutral.

Shadowgirl and Vivian are very far to think Im town.
But I dont think any of them are scum.
So, FAIL!

Quoting things out of context and leaving out posts that explain my reactions

See post 629 for more information.
And because this is too funny.

Thinking that the scum win condition is You could win when all threats to scum are eliminated. LOLWTF? Do I have to explain why this win condition is ridiculous?

This is a nice summary

Muerrto just proved that,
a)his vote for me wasnt becuase he thought I was scum.
b)the reasons why he thinks Im scum for arent scumtells.
c)cant think in another player as scum besides me.
d) (new) blatant lying and quoting things out of context. Town doesnt need to do this.
Dont know if this has to be more obvious. Or dont know why some people prefer my lynch than his... shrug.

[populartajo]

My case on Tajo started with his reaction to my vote.

Nice future vision there.

I voted him because he called for a prod when it wasn't needed. Trying to say people are lurking is a good way to build a wagon on them. Since I WASN'T lurking it was a BS prod.

How is trying to say people are lurking when they specially ARE NOT lurking a good way to build a wagon on them? Why dont you accept it was a mistake from my part? How can you explain why did you think I linked you with Ergo?

When I voted him he FLIPPED out. One second he wasn't saying a word about me except that for some reason he had a problem with me agreeing about Time. What followed were pages of Tajo cursing everyone, never posting a defense other than 'I R TOWN, U R DUMB', claiming when there was no reason to, CLEARING Tony because he agreed with Tajo's 'win condition', more cursing, more 'Stop voting me, I'm town'. Etc.

This isnt true and the things you are citing aren't scumtells. Sorry, pal. You are just using this "Oh, being angry and cursing are bad in my fantasy world" for not answering my ideas.

Can his reaction be frustrated townie? At one point maybe, but not this far in. And the fact he's 100% sure I'm scum is suspect. Why? Because I suspect you? Because I didn't agree that knowing the win condition makes you town?

No. Read my big post for knowing why I think you are scum. Stop lying!

Wouldn't you assume since this is 'This could be mafia' that all win conditions are going to say 'could'? If you were scum, couldn't you just SWITCH the town/scum words and quote the win condition? Sorry, but you got a PM too as did Tony so him agreeing so quickly with you and you clearing him so completely makes me look really closely at both of you.

This makes me laugh incredibly out loud.
Peace.

[populartajo]

Grimmy <3

[populartajo]

Shadow you know Im town and I feel you are town also. Why are you doing this?

[populartajo]

You think his case is better than mine?

[populartajo]

Why would he be angry about me making a mistake? Even if I hadnt made a mistake, why did that deserve a vote? Do you agree with the reasons why he voted me?
And Im voting him not only because he thinks Im scum for being angry which is ridiculous. Did I make a big post just for me? (shrug)

[populartajo]

Batto, what about Muerrto?

[populartajo]

Miniprodded.
Shadowgirl, I thought we were friends
If you had to pick between Muerrto and me who would you pick?

[populartajo]

OMGUS - I posted less than 24 hours ago and just got prodded. I now think you are scum Shadow... not really.

Win.

[populartajo]

Yep.

[populartajo]

Muerrto, do you still think I am scum for being agressive? And can you answer my other questions?

[populartajo]

The only question you asked is the same one you've asked all game. You asked for my prod and INSTEAD of saying 'oops my bad' you went off on me for pages and pages even causing suspiscion on yourself and forcing your claim and then much, MUCH later said 'oops my bad'. Yes, I think that's a tad scummy.

First, its not the only question. Read my other posts for the other questions. Now, Muerrto, do you really think it wasnt a mistake? Do you think that I as scum would start a lurkerhunt specially in someone who wasnt lurking? It was a mistake, why is that so hard to understand? Yes, it took a while because I assumed it was pretty obvious.

When I voted you were nowhere near getting lynched, why did you freak out so much from 1 vote? Why does it matter why I voted you? Voting =/= lynching.

I didnt freak out because I was going to be lynched. I did freak out because your vote was like the most unexpected thing in my whole time here in MS. That was like the worst reason to vote for someone and I think finally some people are realizing what Im talking about.

[populartajo]

Why?

[populartajo]

<3

[populartajo]

First, if you're asking me to answer YOUR questions you don't say 'go find them'.

Post 'em

if you want 'em answered.

Second, it obviously wasn't OBVIOUS since I asked you about it REPEATEDLY and you constantly avoided the subject until finally pages later you said 'oops'. So saying you thought it was obvious and that's why you didn't say anthing is bull, period.

When the hell did you ask repeatedly? Of course it was obvious. Ask yourself something. Do you think it is a good idea to start a lurkerhunt in someone who wasnt lurking? How retarded is that. It was a freaking mistake. Yes, I suck at admitting mistakes but its pretty obvious to me it was a mistake. Do you still think it wasnt a mistake? Do you still think I was asking for a mislynch for lurking in someone WHO WASNT LURKING?

And finally, I've seen much worse votes, much worse.

Well at least you are admitting how bad was your vote.

And no matter what the reason, your reaction to 1 vote was insane. Notice how it gained you alot more votes and forced you to claim.

Yes. I made a lot of mistakes. I got extremely frustrated when no one seemed to understand me and I was receiving like pretty weak votes, wagoned to death. That makes me crazy. I yell, start acting assholy and usually get lynched for that. I dont want this to happen anymore.
You know, though, that that doesnt make me scum, right?

Are all the people who voted you scum?

No. Stop pulling this. I already showed why this isnt true.

Or just some?

I am pretty sure there are/were some scum in my wagon. I am such an easy target when I get irritated. Even in that state, I know which votes are well-thought and which are just retarded.
Now
Question N1: Why did you lie about me and Tony? Why did you leave out the quotes that explained why I changed my opinion about Tony?
Question N2: Do you still think agression is a scumtell?
Question N3: Who are your other suspects?
Question N4: Is Grimmy your scumpartner?

[populartajo]

Unvote. Vote: Tajo

This goes against the no lynch powerrole D1, but of the two people I think that could be lynched before deadline, you are the scummiest and have the largest chance of getting lynched.

I think Muerrto is the scummiest and from your own list.

Tajo - 5, 10, 9, 1 (1 potential vote, 1 fence vote)
Muerrto - 7, 1, 1, 4, 7 (3 potential votes)

Why I am the scummiest?

[populartajo]

You still don't understand the list, do you....

I never said it was a list of the scummiest. I was just wondering why did you decide to go after me when Muerrto had like 3 potential votes and I had one. You say that Muerrto would prob have me as a 1, but Im kinda sure Vivian and Peg prefer his lynch than mine.
But, hey it seems you already took your stance. Shrug.

Why you are scummier than Muerrto: He did overreact to your prod, but your posts after which have really pushed you as scummier. The 180 is completely off as I have stated earlier.

Its not off. Batto. Look at these quotes.

Time's behavior actually reflects just what Popular said. He asked for a replacement, then kept posting, then was SURPRISED when he got replaced

Because if that IS the case he needs to work on that. And according to his posts I gotta agree with Popular, Time seemed to be quite taken with the game.

I agreed with Popular because he was right why do both Popular and Shadowgirl have a problem with that? I never buddied up or anything, I simply agreed.

And then in his next post (the 10) Muerrto, (as all have accepted), votes me for the most ridiculous reason evaaar. How is that not a 180? At least, from my perspective. Please.

You claim way too early, that's scummy.

Why? Do you think it was better to claim when I was going to be lynched?

You said that Tony is definately not scum and Shadowgirl is probably not, when they said they had the same win condition as you.

No. I said that they are not scum for their reactions to my claim. They had no idea I had posted my exact win condition. However, Tony (fully) and Shadowgirl(partially) both said that they had the same win condition WITHOUT knowing that it was my exact win condition.

That's

what confirmed that they both have the EXACT same win condition.
I feel like Im repeating myself.

Also, you didn't defend yourself early in the game, you just called everyone stupid or just wrong for not agreeing with you.

Yeah. Sorry about that. I dont remember to have being that asshole but if more than one person is noticing that, then I have realized its not the optimal way of playing this game and it only gives more weapons to your enemies. But, Batto, you know that its nulltell, right?

[populartajo]

The 180 is off based on the fact the game was just getting started.

No. It is based on the fact that he agreed with me in a pretty concise case and then voted me for one of the worst reasons ever. If you agree with someone in the majority of your posts, how is not a 180 to vote for that person for PRODDING you? Wouldnt you freak out?
Also the game was on page 8, far away than having started.

It is more optimal to claim closer to the hammer than what you did. I think you panicked at being found out, and did the only thing you could think of that might work to sway votes off of you. Claim PR.

If I had panicked I would have claimed doctor or cop not a lame watcher, dont you think? Its obvious I got a little worried for being lynched and I claimed so that people dont waste more time on me. All the players, specially me, hate to be lynched D1 for such weak reasons.

I said it leans more scum than town when compared to your other posts.

What other posts?
So you are giving me the reason in the Tony-Shadowgirl thing?

[populartajo]

Not necessarily. A claim of any kind of power role would likely get you to the next day, and I believe that's your intention - a watcher is something that is hard to prove, so we may or may not keep you around on day two. But that is your goal: don't get lynched on day one. One townie down is good for scum (in the instance of lynching Muerrto and plus the NK) as is the possibility of possibly getting not getting lynched the next day.

Positive unvote, positive vote: Tajo

Wait, Muerrto is town?

[populartajo]

Kay. So why are you voting me?

[populartajo]

Shadow you are being unfair. Its obvious the lynch is between he and me. What do you want me to do?
And have you thought in the little tiny possibility that I could be the watcher? Why nobody has counterclaimed yet? You are basing your vote in an hypothesis and not in scummy behaviour. Last I heard you would vote for Muerrto. What changed so drastically?

[populartajo]

Shadow, its going to be the same at the end. I fight, fight and fight but no one listens. It seems like every day there is a new reason to lynch me.
And the meta you are talking about is not a weak meta. Its the only meta you have of me and I dont know why are you dismissing it.
And I dont understand how you can vote a watcher with no counterclaims. If somebody counterclaims me then lynch me, but no one is going to do it.
I am not scum, Shadow.

[populartajo]

LOL. This is funny. I get accused of being an asshole and now of being too friendly.
I am not trying to be friendly. I like you. You said that I had made your day yesterday. It made mine. Also I remember how you defended me with good logic (twice) in two different games. Is it bad to treat you friendly?
Yes. The watcher role is hard to confirm but its the role I got and its all I can give you. Look it at this way. Would you vote for a claimed doctor, cop with no way of proving his powers? I wouldnt until necessary because if no one counterclaims them it is because they are probably the role they claimed.

[populartajo]

You defended me twice of not being scum for gathering unnecessary attention in the beginning. Remember?
And if you want Ill stop being friendly. Let me know, kay?
Yes I know the answer to that one. It was a completely different situation but the end is strangely similar to this one. You know how things ended, right?

[populartajo]

Is it so hard for you to believe that you and Muerrto both thought Time was scum? Does he have to be "following" you.

No. Thats not the 180. The 180 is the WTF vote after we both thought he was scum. Thats what freaked me out.
if you agree with player A about player B being scum then you prob dont think that player A is scum specially for PRODDING you.

A watcher may seem lame to you, but it doesn't mean it is not a concievable claim. How often is a watcher in a game compared to a doc or a cop? Not as much I would suspect. So by claiming watcher, you minimize the chance of being counterclaimed while still having a role that is hard to prove.

You are right about the possibilities. Cop/doc is more usual than watcher. But what you are proposing is that I took too many risks. According to you, I guessed there wasn't a watcher in this game that could counterclaim me and I guessed the exact win condition for town.
So do you finally agree with the Shadowgirl-Tony thing right? And what other posts were you talking about? (referred to post 685)

[populartajo]

But how would I know that there isnt a watcher in this game? Even if that is low-risk, why didnt I claim either a claim that could save my ass/out a powerful PR as doc/cop as Shadowgirl has pointed out or a lamer claim as miller?
Why no comments of my other points? My exact win condition, my arguments about Muerrto? Why cant I be a watcher?
It seems like you guys want me lynched yes or yes.

[populartajo]

It seems like you guys want me lynched yes or yes.

[populartajo]

Hey, you missed the grimmy part you add at the end everytime.
Grimmy, its inconceivable you dont agree with me in at least one of my arguments.

[populartajo]

So you are giving me the reason in the Tony-Shadowgirl thing?

[populartajo]

This.

You said that Tony is definately not scum and Shadowgirl is probably not, when they said they had the same win condition as you.

I explained why I thought this. Since you didnt answer it in your next post I assume you had accepted I was right about this, right?

[populartajo]

So, do you think I didnt guess the win condition and that Tony, Shadowgirl and Muerrto are lying about their win conditions?
Batto, its also incredibly that you dont even agree in one point with me.

[populartajo]

Why is it so hard to accept that I HAVE that win condition and that I am A WATCHER? Why do you want to lynch me no matter what?
Also Batto and Grimmy I cant believe how more obvious I have to write things so that you can understand what I am saying.
How the hell me having a win condition that almost all town shares doesnt make me town if I was the first one to come up with it?
Its just... I dont get it.

[populartajo]

Grimmy does the win condition: "You could win when all threat to the scum are eliminated" makes sense to you?
And for the 100th time it wasnt the reason why Tony is confirmed. The reason was because he said that I had posted my exact win condition without knowing that I had posted the exact win condition.

[populartajo]

Grimmy and Batto are just begging my vote.

[populartajo]

Grimmy

Shadow, does the win condition: "You could win when all threat to the scum are eliminated" makes sense to you?

I've said that it isn't entirely hard to believe he would believe that would be your win condition. :/

But how did he know that it was the exact win condition?

[populartajo]

Grimmy its time you answer everything that has been posted towards you.

[populartajo]

This is like the first time I hear that scum have threats...
I could be that usually scum have win conditions that involve majority in the game or such.
Ill research and come up with the fact later.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
"be" should be "bet".

[populartajo]

<3 Shadowgirl.
I can buy the SK (cults are rare in minis) but my points still stands. It is very rare that scum have a mention to other threats in their win conditions. Also, my first part of my research showed to me that all win conditions involved some kind of majority clause.

[populartajo]

lets say there are 3 scum. You could post the next day that you watched scum number 2 and he did nothing. meanwhile, scum #2 was sent out to make the kill. This not only "proves" you are a watcher, but also helps to clear scum #2 as town because he did not move when the kill was made

Why would you believe me if you dont think I am a watcher?

[populartajo]

I so want to vote Grimmy right now.

[populartajo]

Some dude called Muerrto.

[populartajo]

Yes, Muerrto looks scummier to me than Grimmy for the fact that Grimmy sometimes seems to not have much experience in the game.
Pretty much I agree with this comment.

I have arrived at the conclusion that you

(Grimmy)

play stupidly, which makes telling if you are scum really hard. You don't even seem to read the posts you quote, just inject your argument that doesn't fit in.

Lately, however, I dont like how he evades posts directed to him, specially when he's proven wrong.
About they being scumpartners, its possible. Specially with this post.

I don't like Grimmy agreeing with me for the wrong reasons. You don't vote someone for scum just because he's being an ass(or pissy in your words). It's because his reactions have been overblown and his defense is basically 'duh I'm town stupid' is why I suspect him. Town should be able to do better than that.

FoS: Grimmy

This is like the only mention Muerrto makes about him.

[populartajo]

I seriously dont deserve to be lynched.

[populartajo]

I assume you are happy with your vote, then.

[populartajo]

Like why?

[populartajo]

Like why are you happy with my vote when Muerrto and even Grimmy look scummier than me and Ive been fighting like you have no idea all this game?

[populartajo]

I thought this would happen. This is sad for so many reasons.
Its sad to be lynched with 2 votes of people that arent in the game, 4 votes of people that dont even read the game or are blatant scums and 1 deadline votes.
Its OK with me. The NK is pretty obvios
Remember that Comp and Tony are 100% town.
Batto, Grimmy and Muerrto are all possible scum and if they are town then tomorrow they are going to feel incredibly retarded.
Tried my best.
Here comes the obvious bahgotown.

[populartajo]

I thought that was the hammer. I only counted the votes but forgot Tony has a negative vote on me. W/e.
About comp being 100% town. Yes I exageratted a little bit but its pretty obvious comp is reading the game and being pretty logical. There is no scum motivation in his play. He is the only one besides Tony that has actually paid attention to all I have said.

[populartajo]

Shadowgirl, its extremely unbelievable you still think I am scum.

[populartajo]

Thx whoever did that.

5.) Once dead, you stop posting. An unrevealing bah post is fine.

[populartajo]

This pretty much express my feelings of this game.

[populartajo]

I miss you tajo. ;_; <3

Miss you too, girl. <3
Kay, no more talking.

[populartajo]

Muerro leaving adds a new player to the replacement box. And with players like Grimmy....

Vote:adandonement.

[populartajo]

Any news on this?

[populartajo]

So who was scum? Im dying to know. I could bet Grimmy was one.

[populartajo]

I bet you he wasn't. (I wasn't scum, btw.)

You investigated him?

[populartajo]

No, just gut. I think CP was scum, though.

I was a watcher as well, which is why I wanted to lynch you.

LOL. That explains a lot of things...
Ok, what do you want to bet?