Mini 1049 - Hide and Seek Mafia - FINAL Kablooie!

[camn]

/confirm

[camn]

wtf where is everyone? lets get this show on the road!

[camn]

I thought it was chicken fried pork? Katsu.

[camn]

For over sixty years
I often cried Katsu! to no avail.
And now, while dying,
Once more to cry Katsu!
Won't change a thing.

[camn]

Domino confirmed in thread, slacker-mod

VOTE: Katsuki

Anata ga nihongo e hanaseru? doshite tabemono no namae ga aru?

[camn]

No reason, Buja? That isn't very pro-town.

[camn]

I have a longstanding meta of improper use of caps.
Note my name AND my custom title.

Besides.. my caps look pretty solid this game. So far.

[camn]

Oh.
I am pro-info, pro-explanations, and pro-establishment of opinions when it comes to protown play.
No reasons yeilds little of these.

I also don't BELIEVE in random votes. As in I don't believe they exist. There is always a reason, even if it is a whimsical one.

What was yours?

[camn]

Obv.

unvote
vote: thebuttonmen

for not giving a reason.
I have already mentioned why that is anti town.

[camn]

You didn't vote me before, why vote Button for the same thing?

He was warned. You were not.

[camn]

You are one to talk!

button = scummier by the post.

[camn]

UNVOTE:
re-VOTE:

KATSUKI

this game has miraculously stalled inthe RVS.
As much as I enjoy seeing my team get their asses kicked by Seattle, it is no excuse for the posting level in this 15 person game!

Clearly we need a bandwagon. And Katsuki can provide.
My initial reasoning still stands.

[camn]

@budja.. because I didnt have suspects. They were all equally crappy cases.

but I do now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: vezokpiraka

Dont be evasive, veso.
DId you see how I just answered Budja's question.. even though it was utterly meaningless and worthless?
But I answer anyway.
Because thats what townies do.
We answer questions.
Or we hang from the neck until dead.
Your choice.

[camn]

Oh, and @ jenni.. imy japanese... i was being slightly ironical. I asked if Katsu actually spoke japanese.. and why he was named after food?
I didn't actually have any good reason.. except for the initial interplay in confirmations gave me a tingle.
A little scum-tingle that I may revisit at a later time.

[camn]

What is wrong with this game???

EVERYONE: TOP THREE SCUMLIST NOW

.

This lurking must stop. THis is a 12 player game for christ's sake.

Mine?
Domino
jenniwren
vezokpiraka

NOt for any real reasons. Just a slight inclination.
This game is so slow I hardly have a read on anyone.

Elli could be buddying me... but I dont have a scumread on him.
Tantslas is prob-town for supporting a BW... but I notice he is not on the Veso wagon yet.... HMMMMMM.
@ Budja... If Veso is a VI, he needs to die.
@ Tanslas. Her.

Lets quicklynch. I want to taste blood. And get to the bottom of these night mechanics.

PS. I already support a results-claim gambit. I dont know which one yet.. I gotta think about it!

[camn]

Ok, then.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Katsu

For being the first person to ignore my demand for a top-three scumlist.
Afraid you will out your buddies? You should be.

[camn]

FINALLY someone knows how to follow directions!

To answer your question.. who? any of the three I noted. (including yourself). Or Katsu.
As to Why? I defer answering that until a later time.

[camn]

Only you

didn't

respond. Not to my

huge

demand of a top-three list from everyone.

You fail to respond even now.

Why is this? I don't like being ignored.

[camn]

Katsu.. are you seriously saying that I am too town to be town? That my scumtell is appearing towny?

You really aren't even trying yet this game, are you?
There is a wonderful, well-accepted scum playbook for camn-hate.
You should look it up. It is easy to follow. Scum use it almost every game. It never works, but it looks good to the untrained eye. It generally starts off with vote-hopping. Why don't you accuse me of THAT instead of 'even though she LOOKS town, I think she secretly ISNT! hahahaha!'?

Also, your 'obvious reasons' are not obvious re: Tans. Please state them for me... cuz I am slow.

MOre Katsu votes, pls

[camn]

Hm.
Am I getting this right?
Katsuki fails to vote Tansaltas.
Tasnatlas fails to vote Katsuki.

DO I smell all bark and no bite x2?

PS@ Pom.. not really. But scummy enough.

[camn]

YOU are the one that thinks 'lack of content' is scummy, aren't you mongoose?
Or is it only scummy when other people do it?

[camn]

We are still on Katsu.
Mongoose is look ing good though.
But I am kind of watching right now. Trying to see what I can see....

[camn]

are you against policy lynching, Meh?

[camn]

I am getting a very ESL feel from this game Pom.. but I noticed that, too.
I read it in a noncontradictory way, but I will await mongoose's explanations.

[camn]

Why is that?

[camn]

Are all those people scum?

[camn]

Are THEY scum, though? For thinking that?

[camn]

URRITE

[camn]

I'm still here; there just hasn't been much to add lately. Though I will say that I've never heard of lurking being used as a scum

hunting

tool.

That is because it doesn't work.
Stop doing it. Start posting more.

ButtonMan is scum.

[camn]

Elli.. lets put mongoose at L-1 and see what falls out, k?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MONGOOSE

For ignoring me and disappearing as soon as things started warming up on him. totally scumerrific.

[camn]

@ Pom, I meant that yes.. but not in re: to you.....

@ Mongoose.. we don't want you to claim.. we want you to PLAY, and since you are scum, we want you to DIE. It is easy.
But before you die, we want you to tell us who your partners are.
If you want to defend yourself.. lets try answering THIS post. Humor me, mmkay?

@ Katsu.. maybe you could find something to add. That would be nice.

[camn]

TBM's is not an actual accusation, though, if you look

closely

.
He is describing my behavior as 'obvscum', which is simply a descriptive meme on this site.

Being

'obvtown' or 'town' or 'scummy' or 'obvscum' is something anyone can do regardless of alignment.

He knows I am actually town, and that knowledge leaks out in his verbage.

I, on the other hand, am actually accusing him of being scum. As in, a member of the anti-town mafia faction.

[camn]

Well - interesting. Vezok confirmed town AMIRITE?

WRONG!

If I were scum I would totally blow up a scum room, knowing full well that my scumbuddy was hiding somewhere else.

ps. Im lucky.. I considered hiding in Vezo's room.

[camn]

I understand that Pom.
But clearing him is definitely a no-no, no?

However, Veso is on my hitlist for his hammer alone. I was hoping putting someone at L-1 would shake something out.... Maybe it did?

VOTE : vesokpiraka

For the obv reason- WTF on the quickhammer?

[camn]

I've read through the thread, but don't have time to do in-depth analysis. I'll get to it tomorrow, hopefully.

And SHIT!!. Why do you hav to play with Mike again? Out last experience together was not really a great one.....

Unless it is ongoing... spill it.
What is your impression of burnfire?
Relevant history? context?

[camn]

I think Katsu is a filthy lurker, but town..
He has been skating by, posting absolutely nothing. I would normally think he was scum just for that. in fact, I did... but then, somehow, he has time to correct DGB's votecount. This is lurkeriffic.. but totally a townslip. If he was scum, it would totally be in the scum's best interest to keep that confusion alive.. hoping for a mis-hammer at 6 votes, no?

I guess I could WIFOM my way around that.. but given he has NOTHING ELSE OF SUBSTANCE... that is the only thing I can read on.

PS: Far_Cry (whose room I hid in last night, incidentally)
I will confess. I don't, and never did, think Button was obvscum. He COULD be scum, but his only scumminess is not seeing how obvtown I am. (which is actually a pretty big scumtell, btw) But I am undecided on him.
I wrote that with no justification whatsoever to try and get some mudslinging going.
And for general OMGUS-iness.
This game is mega-lethargic for some reason. . . and I will do whatever it takes to spur discussion.. because that is what we need to win.

[camn]

@Camn:

Why the pivot onto the mongoose wagon? What posting of his made you think he was probable scum and / or a profitable wagon?

I think I had been pretty clear that ANY wagon was profitable, due to the redic slow pace of the game.
Go back and see what I wrote when I voted.. it explains my vote.

------------

@ Far_Cry.... I don't know what exactly makes me so obvtown.... it is just my gift
Re: my hide choice.. I actually was going to choose Vezo, thinking that if he was scum he wouldnt get blown up (which I later realized was illogical).. and if he

was

town, he was scummy, thus wouldn't get blown up.. then I WIFOM'ed it into thinking that, if town, he WOULD get blown up, because that is the one place the scum knows he WONT be.. thus making sure he lived..... THEN I Wifomed like crazy.. and eventually picked you because your name was in the last post, and I had been staring at it for 5 minutes. And I figured, if you were town, you were a replacement, and the scum would want you alive. But you might not have got your night choice in, so they would bomb somewhere else.

God how exhausting.


PS.. I have racked my brain trying to figure out how we can use our night choices strategically... but I can't think of anything.
Anyone have any ideas that they feel like they could share without wrecking them?

[camn]

...Furthermore, camn is definately not obvtown......TBH, as townie as camn may seem, she is quite high up on my scumdar.....

I am glad my harsh words regarding your activity level spurred you to try and contribute to this game.
I will look over your points when I am more sober.

I also like that you are continuing down the path of 'too townie to be town'. I enjoy that.
You should really decide though, which it is. DO I seem town? Or not? You keep trying to have it both ways.... which is weak play. Either accept the fact that I am the most obv to ever be obv... or actually point out what is so scummy about me. Quit with this "camn sure LOOKS like town.. but I know better har har!"

[camn]

Asking about how to coordinate hiding definately does not fall into the "too townie to be town" department.

But stifling any discussion of it? This is your idea of good strategy?

I couldn't disagree more.

An informed, organized town is a huge threat to scum.. so I dont understand why you would want to shut down discussion on any front. I get why you might keep your personal thoughts hidden, but saying that you "do not like any discussion pertaining to "night choices"" is simply anti-town. The night choices are the only thing than makes this anything other than a mountainous. and if there IS 4 scum like you suggest (which I doubt).... well.. nobody has ever won a 4 vs. 8 mountainous. Ever. So we should just give up now if we can't figure out how to make the night time work for us.

[camn]

Katsu is town, guys. Just like I said.

Now where is vezo? Has he even bothered to post?

[camn]

Ok.

1) yes. You DO need to comment on that statement.

2) mountainous games are games with no power roles or special mechanics. They are notoriously difficult for the town. This would be a mountainous if it were not for the night mechanic. Your suggestion that we AVOID talking about the night mechanic would essentially nullify any advantage the mechanic gives us.... Making this game equivalent to a mountainous game.

I hope those answers were clear.

[camn]

What questions? Did I miss some? Or are you shamelessly buddying?

How about this instead, hotshot: give YOUR opinion on us discussing night choices. Put yourself out there. Take a stand... Don't just try and egg on a town vs. town disagreement.... Because that is totally what scum do.

And ftr, I dont explain townreads, generally. So I will disregard your request.

[camn]

a) quickhammer = dumb

b) @ katsu...just keep rereading post 237 until you can understand it.
Then you will start to realize how to be a better townie.
I don't know why I would bother explaining again, since it seems clear you don't read my posts very carefully to begin with.

And stop with the caps, pls.. both of you.

[camn]

Is English your first language?

I ask this honestly... Because it will affect my word choice. Plus you seem to have trouble understanding things, and I don't want to make assumptions.

[camn]

Ha ha!

Nice try, bus-master.

VOTE: MehPlusRawr

[camn]

And for the slow learners:

Quickhammer is scummy regardless of the flip.

PS: I didn't hide last night. I stayed in my own room.

STICK THAT IN YOUR WIFOM AND SMOKE IT, SCUM!

[camn]

Katsu- Although I did think you were town, I now have two very pressing lines of inquiry to take up with you. I expect your attention on both, until I am satisfied. If you deflect or ignore, I will see you lynched. Believe it. Here goes:

a)

Erm, I may post later to clarify as to what I mean, but yeah. I do not like any discussion pertaining to "night choices" and increasing scum chances of hitting.

how talking about night actions would be in any way helpful in "organizing" the town.

For more WIFOM, I too hid in camn's room last night :*

What happened to move you from NOT DISCUSSING NIGHT CHOICES to blatantly claiming your night choices. It is ok to answer 'you convinced my with your incredible logic, camn!!'

b)

If MPR did in fact hammer, he'll be facing the same questions vezo was.

Oh hey, vezok was scum
...

Vote: Tans

What happened to MPR needing to face questions? Please answer and await my followup questions.

preview edit: stop with the caps. for real. Explain your MPR reasoning in full. now.

[camn]

UNVOTE
VOTE KASTUKI

[camn]

I think Katsu is combative, inconsistent, and unable to play a pro-town game.
Best case: a townie who will never be nightkilled, and will lose the game for us if given the chance.
More likely? Scum.

[camn]

Good point tans.
We

could

pray for a hypo-town Katsu to be randomly killed.
Of course, that won't happen given Katsu-scum.

And regardless... I would rather punish scumminess with a lynch.

Elli- i think Katsu has plenty of scum motivation to play this way. But let's assume town for a sec- do you want her in endgame with you?

[camn]

Elli- i think Katsu has plenty of scum motivation to play this way. But let's assume town for a sec- do you want her in endgame with you?

Wouldn't mind that much, have had worse...
But really, I see no scum motivation to go for the easily checkable lie.

I agree with THAT.. but what about the evasiveness? What about the unexplained changes in position when they become unpopular? And what about disregarding straight questions?
Scum totally go with the flow in re: their suspicions and opinions.. .. and it is a scum COUP when you can ignore questions and call it playstyle.

And imagine if it came down to one scum in [Katsu and . . someone else]. Kats is setting things up so he can just write off all his previous suspicions and accusations as gambits and WIFOM. That will be a fun choice in lylo.

Now, the fact that he was all over me about discussing nightchoices, and then started off the day discussing nightchoices.. I can let that slide. Most people see the wisdom in my plans eventually...
But unless he can answer my questions about MBR and the veso wagon, he is either scum or a liability. And I play games to win. That means eliminating liabilities.

[camn]

I love the camn flipflopping. First me obvtown, now me scum, to somewhere in between.

Note how Katsu throws this

political

slander out, despite the fact that Elli is openly changing his mind.
It is only useful to the SCUM for him to use sarcastic non-logical arguments against me, and ignore the same actions taken by his supporters. It muddies the arguments, and leaves a trail of nonsense to pick up later in the game.

If is is bad for me to change positions, then it is equally bad for Elli, no?
Yet another inconsistency. Katsuki cannot be relied on for logical thinking when it comes to pro-town goals.
Why?

Him being scum is certainly one explanation.
And NO explanation makes him an asset to this town.

[camn]

Camn...I'm not a big fan of the liability chop usually, but ESPECIALLY here, where the town can potentially LOSE with one unlucky night I'm even more against it...

Then get some answers out of him! If he is such a townie, he should be able to field easy questions re: reasoning.

[camn]

I am a lynch-all-lurkers gal.

[camn]

Good, jenni. Good.

Also, tans.. I see no reason why scum would all go into the same room. Or lie about where they went. So I am unsure if we can catch anyone that way.

More Katsu votes?

[camn]

You can ignore the bulk of the Jenni/tans exchange.
Definitely read Katsuki at the beginning of the day... I would enjoy your input.

[camn]

Oh. My bad. Sorry Katsuki.

Me too. I forgot!

[camn]

OK.. lets get down to biz, while Katsu decides if she wants to start playing right, or die.

Elli.. lets put mongoose at L-1 and see what falls out, k?

Day 1, partial final vc:

Katsuki (1): ,

mongoose

mongoose

(7): jenniwren, Budja(Far_Cry), tanstalas, Katsuki,

camn

, Ellibereth,

vezokpiraka

vezokpiraka

(1): MehPlusRawr

Hmm. Not much there. shook vezo out, though. Odds of Elli being scum? VERY SMALL based on this votecount alone.
MPRs vote is interesting. Bussing or instinct? Need to check:
Wow. MPR's iso is pretty thin. He should start posting more, too

Partial day 2 vc:

vezokpiraka (6):

camn

, The Buttonmen, Pomegranate, Katsuki, Far_Cry, MehPlusRawr
Katsuki (1): tanstalas

Even less there. Katsu was willing to punish Vezo for quickhammering, but didn't even bother to question MPR. On the bus early? Not willing to ride it twice? Maybe. I have some thoughts here.
Could the Veso wagon be totally towndriven? Maybe. Just maybe.


more later..

[camn]

Also making this game mountainous is starting to seem ilke an idea worth discussing, in particular I feel like after the next scum lynch people should stop hiding and prevent any multikills from happening.

^^townslip

[camn]

Interesting thought.

Buuuuuut.. it has a giant logical hole.
One you could fit a truck through.

I like the ideas, though.. keep them coming!

[camn]

Hmm. Not much there. shook vezo out, though. Odds of Elli being scum? VERY SMALL based on this votecount alone.

While I like the conclusion I don't really get why. >.>

Because veso-scum dropped the hammer.
I think it is unlikely that veso-scum would follow elli-scum on a 2-scum end-wagon, uncoached. And how COULD he be coached, considering camn-town dragged elli onto the wagon?
THUS.. Elli-town.

[camn]

I think I do, but I disagree.

Or maybe, someone forgot to post here because they were busy making catchup posts in other games as well. Plus, Tuesday was yesterday...

Weak case is weak case, Tans is still scum.

I will sleep soundly knowing that.

Your defense is that

YOU FORGOT ????

Maybe it is that, you sense we don't have the momentum to lynch you, and you are trying to lay low until the heat passes to someone else?
Maybe your partner is chainsawing tans, and you are hoping it will catch on?
But when it DIDN'T, you thought you would poke your head in and drop a little OMGUS-bomb?
And you know that anything out of your mouth will just make you more lynchable, because you are scum?

Maybe that is it. Maybe not that you 'FORGOT'.

[camn]

It's not tunneling.
There is no way you 'forgot' about this game, that is all.
Of course, now it seems you are blaming 'class' for your evasiveness.
Which is it?
Did you forget?
Did class interfere?
Are you just trying stuff out till we let you off the hook?

[camn]

By the way... My instinct?
If Katsu is town, scum would have jumped on the wagon by now.
If Katsu IS scum, her partners are NOT on the wagon right now, and are lurking. Which is almost certainly the case. Scum wouldn't be letting a mislynch lose steam, IMO.

Let's lynch her, check the flip, and catch the rest of the scum with their pants down.

[camn]

Unless, the scum are already on the wagon. Which they most probably are.

This is not a townie driven wagon.

Then where are they? Why do they let the game smolder?
And what makes it scum-driven?
I, for one, would LOVE it if you would start acting like a townie.. But you persist in acting like scum.
Where is your defense? Where is your indignation? Where is your righteous town fury?

I don't see it.

[camn]

I'm sold.

unvote
Vote Far_Cry

Play better tomorrow, kats.
For everyone.
For yourself.

The "I've given up, please lynch me" attitude sucks, btw. Replace out if you can't keep your heart in the game.

[camn]

Hush your mouth tans. DGB would never.

[camn]

If/When we claim our night actions, I think that we ought to keep in mind that the Mafia member who plants the bomb cannot hide on that night, IIRC.

shhh.. thats how we start clearing townies when we only have 1 scum left!

[camn]

I am certainly willing to use my vote freely.
Do you argue with my results, Katsu? It seems very clear that ME joining the day1 wagon lead directly to the day2 scumlynch.
Should I be more conservative?
I can't see why I would.

[camn]

Let's run MPR up to L-1, and see who has the balls to hammer.
That would appease my sense of symmetry.

[camn]

Please replace out.

[camn]

I have.

I also support a MPR or Katsuki lynch.

Lets kill.

[camn]

Jenni: if you would read my posts, you wouldn't be confused about what I say.
Now, let's all put our vote where our mouths are and get to lynching!

[camn]

I'd like to see you try.

[camn]

OMG... is that another vote on Katsu?!

This should make it L-1 then.
My case remains as before, but add: dropped out of the game without requesting replacement.
Or, in summary, too anti-town to be town.

Somone hammer, please please please.

UNVOTE
VOTE KATSUKI

Plus I like the replacements post.
It is off base re: me, but nobody is perfect.

[camn]

Look.. If I Katsu and I were scum, that would mean I have been pounding away at her all game, AND I relentlessly bussed our OTHER partner right out of the gate Day 2.

Now, I wouldn't put that past me as scum, but all WIFOM aside... that would be stupid.

Lets Lynch Kats and find out, though, no?

Just to clear one thing some CONFUSION first:

.......that when [camn] unvoted Kats and voted FC, she told Kats to play better tomorrow. That sounds like camn thinks Kats is town and can redeem herself? I'm confused now. ..........

Here are some quotes from me re: Kats.

(I fixed a couple pronouns for gender agreement)

I think Katsu is a filthy lurker, but town..
She has been skating by, posting absolutely nothing.

I am glad my harsh words regarding your activity level spurred you to try and contribute to this game.

Katsu is town, guys.

@ katsu...just keep rereading post 237 until you can understand it.
Then you will start to realize how to be a better townie.

Now this one is important, Jenni... attend to it:

Katsu- Although I did think you were town, I now have two very pressing lines of inquiry to take up with you. I expect your attention on both, until I am satisfied. If you deflect or ignore, I will see you lynched. Believe it.

Did that make sense? Maybe read it again.

Now, given that I could be WRONG with my town reads, from this point on I open up the possibility/likelihood of kats-scum.

I think Katsu is combative, inconsistent, and unable to play a pro-town game.

We could pray for a hypo-town Katsu to be randomly killed.

...unless she can answer my questions about MBR and the veso wagon, she is either scum or a liability. And I play games to win. That means eliminating liabilities.

Katsuki cannot be relied on for logical thinking when it comes to pro-town goals.
Why?

Her being scum is certainly one explanation.
And NO explanation makes her an asset to this town.

I, for one, would LOVE it if you would start acting like a townie.. But you persist in acting like scum.

I also support a MPR or Katsuki lynch.

Lets kill.

----

Now, Jenni.. I will try and set my bitchiness aside for a while. (its been a frustrating month!)
So, honestly... are you still confused?

(were you ever? maybe that was a passive-aggressive scum-chainsaw?)

Do you have any questions as to why I want Katsu Lynched?
Does anyone? i think I have been clear.. but I welcome questions.

[camn]

I started the vezo wagon, my friend. And, as I just painfully illustrated, my opinion on Katsu has changed very little this game.
If you want to contest otherwise, I suggest you cite it. Quotes and post numbers would be good.

And don't be wrong. 'building a crapcase on camn' is developing into an established site scumtell...

Re: your second: because she is a liability AT BEST, which makes her a good wagon to get rolling.
Her being scum would just be gravy.

[camn]

I'm telling you:
I didn't change my opinion in a meaningful way.
Show me where I did.

Also, when did you Say i started the Veso wagon? All I can find is your implication that his lynch was something I didnt totally support.....here: (not that this quote makes much sense)

b> After scumbuddy Vezo got lynched for his idiocy, Camn awkwardly retake his position to avoid another buddy's death.

Please start talking about the same game as us.

Actually, my mid-week drunkenness aside, your misrep here deserves more heat.

UNVOTE
VOTE: noppintinactingup

Until you either show me evidence or admit you mid-read something, I have to assume you are intentionally trying to deceive us, in a desperate attempt to save your partner from death, and/or mislynch camn.

And be advised: if Katsu gets another vote, I will hammer.
Almost immediately.
My hate there is unabated.

[camn]

Done and done.

UNVOTE
Vote KATSUKI

[camn]

Hmm. I Missed Jenni's unvote, I see.

UNVOTE
VOTE: nopointinactingup

[camn]

Ah good, you did recognize.

That responding inside my quotes thing is confusing.
I am glad you admit that I haven't changed my mind about kats....
Too bad you still aren't making a lick of sense. Why am I scum again?

You want to test my commitment to a Katsu lynch? Get her to a REAL L-1. I will hammer. Belive me.
Just like I thought I was doing a few posts back.

Or keep saying that I am scum without any reason why.

[camn]

So... You are going to need to cite. Because I still don't get it. Or maybe I simply disagree.

Either way, I think post 312 was pretty clear. Or my recent rebuttal of Jenni's NEARLY IDENTICAL line of attack (529).

Did you get a chance to actually read this game? Because usually I stop responding when I am simply citing my old posts. But you were good enough to replace in, so I will be patient for now.

[camn]

@Kat:

Then selfvote, me and/or Camn will hammer 100% guaranteed.

+1

[camn]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2541871

[camn]

I'm ok with jenni, Katsu (even though she might be town) or nopoint.

I'm not ok with TBM, or Elli.

Everyone else I could easily be convinced. Show me a weak tell.

[camn]

Elli, TBM and now Spyrex are three people I wouldn't want to see a really fast run-up and deadline lynch... which is kind of what would need to happen here. I want to be more confident on their scumminess, because if they are town, they can help us. If they are scum , I think we have days left to catch them. So it is more about their usefulness to ME as town allies being way greater than their threat to ME as scum opponents.

@ Spy: I have been pushing Katsu (probably too hard) as a utility lynch most of today. I still wouldn't mind seeing her dead.. but I THINK that Jenni's last post here
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2566387
Is VERY VERY scum-desperation.. and I am getting a little perky about a jennilynch.
I also like i no-point flip just to see what kind of light that shines on the Buttonmen... but I am not married to it.

Incidentally, I wouldn't mind lynching MPR's replacement on the quickhammer alone. It worked with Vezo, after all. We will see how the rep fares, though.

TO SUM UP, this game has gotten pretty stale.. a lot of people playing pretty poorly.. and we need fresh blood. If you could summon a Player-by Player before deadline, that would be cool.. or I would be fine with a Katsu or Jenni lynch and you can give us your thoughts in the morning.

[camn]

Actually.. I would like to see what happens here:
Replacements.. this is L-1 if I count correctly....

UNVOTE:
VOTE: KATSUKI

What say you?
Especially you, Spyrex?

EVeryone else, tread softly, please.
I am especially interested in the reps.

[camn]

And I replaced a drunk monkey that I would have lynched.

I love you.
Literally.

[camn]

Schizo=I missed a bunch of NPs responses because they were buried inside quotes of me.
So there was a period there where I think I wasn't playing the same game as NP.
It confused me.
I feel better now.

[camn]

Spy: 'you are useless scum, kats'

Kats: 'I'M ALWAYS USELESS, its not scummy at all!

Spy: 'yes it is, scum'

Kats: ' well, could you point out how you caught me, so I can improve my scumgame?"

[camn]

Yay!!!

Katsu.. If you have any interest in improving your scum- OR town- game.. Take a good look at your play today. It made me, a towns townie, want you dead regardless of alignment.

Think about it.

Now let's see the flip.

[camn]

Did burnfire just drop the "that sucks" tell?
Hmm.

Well, I disagree. It WAS cool.
Also... Who are you addressing when you say 'you guys'?
You don't say "dammit WE mislynched again"... You say "YOU GUYS" mislynched again. Hmm.

Probably nothing.

[camn]

Probably nothing.

This is camn saying "MBF is super duper scummy, but I want everyone else to lynch him while I sit back and watch"

Although that would be nice, it is actually me reigning in my natural OMGUS-iness.

in other news

VOTE : SPYREX

he actually DID just drop the 'that sucks' tell.
PLus he is bussing his partner.
Blus his predecessor managed to stay of the righteous Vezo wagon.

PLUS.. he just did what I did earlier with the VC analysis. He posted it and got nothing.
Why is this significant? Because it isn't his style. Town-spyrex wouldn't waste the pixels. Why he needs to copy me is unknown... but is is a subtle followup to his obv-buddying when he replaced in.

[camn]

BOO.

[camn]

What is terrible about it, Burnfire?
Please.. be specific.

@nopoint: I can't totally put my finger on it, but it seems like Spyrex is playing like an imitation of himself. I don't actually dig up meta, it is just my impression based on our previous games together.

[camn]

1) The "That sucks" tell is stupid and null.
2) It's not bussing unless they're both scum, which they aren't.
3) Just because somebody wasn't part of a scum lynch doesn't make them scum. In fact, a smart scum would be on the end of the wagon, for good distancing. AKA you.

1)Actually, its awesome.
2)Maybe, although, without the flip, that can't be stated as fact.
3)Except that never happened.

[camn]

Scum list.
Hard to make with so little posts.

Katsu
Tans
Moongoose (probably. I can't get another scum read right now)

unvote

I will join the wagon on either tans or katsu whichever grows bigger.

What about this little gem from day 5?
Any thoughts here?
It's practically the RVS... I demand a top 3, Veso-scum names these. Two of them have flipped town. Would all 3 flip town? Not in any scumworld I have ever lived in.

[camn]

UNVOTE

Shit.
So I have naan casually rereading this game.
At about page 16...
Anyway, other than a couple tingles, tans is coming across pretty town, so ima forget about SPYREX for now.
Ellibereth us almost CERTAILY town.
And I am obv town. Anyone who doubts that, read the first 10 posts of day 2 (page 8?). My vote on Vezo is as town as it gets.
However, day 3 is terrible, and I think all the scum are in hiding then. Which brings me to this post... Which I think is true:

Please define active group - by my definition of "Active group" and "right now" I count 5 people who are not in "the active group"

Mikeburnfire
jenniwren
Pon
Thebuttonmen
MPR

So which are you referring to?

So.. I need to finish reading.. But I think that that group should be our focus today.

[camn]

Well.. if you put it that way

VOTE: POMEGRANITE

[camn]

DGB was up in the vodka bottle when she tabulated that votecount.

[camn]

On another note, I am realizing during this game exactly how much of my scumhunting relies on nightkill speculation.
This is a bad thing.

[camn]

I agree with Elli.
We can't lynch Pom in her absence.

UNVOTE POM

Lets take a quick recap:

camn- obvtown.
mikeburnfire - Burnfire, your case is crap, and so is your attitude.... but I doubt you are scum.
jenniwren - I had forgotton you were in this game. I could dig a jenni wagon
Ellibereth - obvtown
Spyrex - Spyrex is playing scummy, but Tans was playing town. Mixed feelings here
Pomegranate - scummy.. but we should see what the replacement brings
nopointinactingup - this slot has been scummy through all three players. I would like to see what pops up on a wagon here
TheButtonmen - town.
Iecerint - definately giving me a town vibe.

So, Spy/POM/Jenni/nopoint.

Lets lynch them all.

[camn]

Don't mind at all.
Mind you, this list is mostly in order of descending uselessness:

Jenni
Nopoint
SPYREX
Pom.

[camn]

FML

[camn]

Yes. I want to lynch jenni or Pom.
Just like I said.

[camn]

I post drunk a lot.

[camn]

It actually did work well. .. Snark aside.
And I think you ARE town. Too bad you are tunneling on a townie.

[camn]

Also... Why NOT lurkers on day 4?
We have nothing.
We have no good suspects.
Nothing in VC.
Lurking is just as scummy now as it is on day 1.

Of course... SPYREX is not a lurker. So you attack me both for going after lurkers, and going after one of the more active players.
You, sir, have to clear up your message.

[camn]

This game needs a bandwagon:

VOTE: NOPOINT IN ACTING UP

Your threats have no teeth.

[camn]

cute.

[camn]

Ok, one more time.

Look at the difference in how jenni mk 2 came in versus:

Oh hai. I've got to catch up on the game before I can provide anything useful, but I'd find it helpful if people would ask questions to help me along the way.

I tend to agree.

[camn]

Fave scum thing: Kats pounding . This is not a very well formulated suspicion.

Elli town = he hasn't done anything too scummy yet. Perhaps he should be on the nullset, but he's also stuck his neck out a lot more than other peeps.

PS: notice the inconsistency?
WHen I stick my neck out to get my chosen target lynched.. it is a "scum thing"
But for Elli, it makes him town.

hmm.

[camn]

Icrint: no misread.
I start thoughts with PS sometimes. Bad habit.

You disagree with sapovirus re Ellis play?

[camn]

What about scum laziness?
Scum often just skim the game when replacing in. they already know who is who.. no need to really hunt.. so it is easy to miss things. Mis-characterize what has happened. Make up reasons for scum- and town-reads.

[camn]

Or, not even bother to read and just ask if people have questions, ya know.

EXACTLY.

[camn]

I think Dizzy/POM COULD be scum, and would definitely be a good lynch. Her partner? Probably Nopoint or Spyrex.

I think saporo/jenni is inconsistent, and deserves scrutiny for such.

Make sense? Ok yay.
More Nopoint votes?

[camn]

WHy not?

[camn]

Well, check this:
Here are two CLASSIC examples of scum-distancing.
"OMG, nopoint.. I totally think you are scummy... but I am totally voting someone else.

I feel like it's a Pot, Kettle, Black, Etc., situation here. Katsuki is scummy (to you) for for having week suspicious of Camn, but you have week and uncommitted of him for it- couldn't I say that I see you and Katsuki linked in this way?.....However, I still dislike Katsuki's play, and I'm going to keep my vote on him for the sake of the wagon, and where it's going right now.

I feel like the day is stalling/dragging for no reason... I'm willing to vote NPIAU is we can get a lynch on him.

Take a look Pom never gets around to laying a VOTE on nopoint, right?

From the nopoint side, its the same deal. SOme sparring, but no real action.
THis is typical scumpartner behaviour, no?
I honestly don't see what you are getting at. There wasn't even any serious bussing... just some mild distancing.

Anyway, WIFOM destroys clearing either of them on partnerships alone. Hell, I have been accused of being Veso's partner for lynching him... neither of these two have even laid a VOTE on the other. (based on my ISO-scans )
IN any event... this line of inquiry would be much more valuable after the flip.

--------
ps: how irrelevant is Burnfire? Even DGB doesn't notice him.
YOu should try finding scum, burnfire. It makes the game more fun.

[camn]

Only if you can show a rock solid connection between two of them though, right?

[camn]

Well... lets follow a little game trend here then.

UNVOTE
VOTE DIZZY IZZY

You haven't added

much

anything since you replaced in.
That plus POMs low activity level = you are a liability.
PLUS, the distancing with nopoint BEGS for a flip.
PLUS.. it appears I am Ellibereth's shadow this game.

[camn]

I love how Burnfire acts like it is some kind of revelation that I lynch people based on usefulness, not alignment.
That is like, the entire strategy that I live by in this game.

Why? Because you can't tell a persons alignment.
You can, however, get a pretty good idea of how useful they are. You can see if they are hurting the town, and you can see if they are putting down enough content to be able to judge them in endgame.

But this kind of strategy-discussion is irrelevant.

Burnfire: play better! Your entire case is IioA!
You are a legend and you are busy pushing a playstyle case??
STOP IT!!
I repeatedly stated that Katsu was a liability as town or scum... It is no secret. No need for you to waste a whole paragraph restating it.... Because I will stipulate it all for you:

I, camn, am a bloodthirsty little whore.
I seek the death of people who are hurting my town, (and sometimes other people too.)
I enjoyed watching Katsu's body twirl in the wind after the life had drained from her eyes.
I REALLY enjoyed killing Veso, because of the added bonus of him being scum.
Mongoose I didn't really enjoy... But it was worth it to catch Veso.

Now, can we get on with things? Your case sucks.

[camn]

Well, I lynch people who have no interest in scumhunting, who spend their time going after lurkers and easy wagons

Regardless of alignment?

[camn]

Well, good luck with that.

I can almost guarantee that you can't get me lynched.
You will be wasting everyones time if you keep it up.. . and wasting your energy on a townie.

Hopefully some scum will be dumb enough to latch on to your so called 'case' and then Spyrex, Elli and I will catch them for you.

[camn]

haters gotta hate.

[camn]

Inconsistent how?

[camn]

My attitude?

If one of me and nopoint is scum.. It's nopoint.
But I am not sure why you think that...
I do agree that there is scum on the Veso wagon.
I also agree that I do enjoy lynching people who aren't me!

So

Let's lynch both of us and see if you are right!
Nopoint first though...

vote nopointinactingup

[camn]

PS.. there you have it:

camn

-

obvtown

town credits: no hesitation in lynching Veso. Totally willingness to lynch almost anyone. Total boredom with the mountainous nature of this setup.

mikeburnfire

Domino

-

town

. too obnoxious to be scum. Wont be worth a damn in endgame. Hopefully he gets pinched by a bomb

saporovirus

jenniwren

. . i had a bad feeling about jenni. Sapo I need to hear more from.

maybetown

.

Ellibereth

- I have been feeling town on him all game.. but maybe that feeling is wrong. Have been burned by him before. Hmm. nonetheless . .

probtown

.

SCUM IS IN THESE THREE:::

Spyrex

tanstalas

Tans was feeling pretty town to me, but I don't know him, so maybe he fooled me.
Spyrex has flashes of his town-ness.. but something is strange about him.

Maybescum if nopoint flips town.

nopointinactingup

Far_Cry Budja

POE on the veso wagon puts NP and/or Icrint as scum. NP jumping on the Dizzy wagon was also funny . .

SCUM

.

Iecerint

MehPlusRawr

MPR should have been lynched for the abrupt hammer of Vezo. Icerint saying >I< was bussing Vezo when his pred MPR pulled he biggest buss of all? suspect.

probscum

----------------------
I have to admit.. if I am right...this town is f-ing weak.
Burnfire is obsessed with one player, and one player alone. That is anti town.
Sapo is an unknown.. so maybe thats good.
and I have no tricks up my sleeve.. like I sometimes do. Thats no good.
Elli.. we need you. You absence needs to end now if we want to stand a chance.
Spyrex, if you are town.. we need you too. Look at this nonsense.

[camn]

I expect a cookie from Burnfire when I flip.

[camn]

Also, @ Sapo:

INCONSISTENT HOW??

plus: I say burnfire is tunneling.. AND TOWN.
I know I tunneled.. and I am town.

2nd, Spy and I are the only people PLAYING.. not the only scummy players.

AND>>>> the point re: icerents quickhammer is that voting for Vezo is not scummy. If I was bussing, he could be too.. it is not a tell.

that is all the defense you will find from me, so please... hammer me, someone.

[camn]

good luck with that.

[camn]

ps. You literally are voting me for the same reasons that made you vote me.

IF you really seek the death of people regardless of alignment.. then you and I totally agree.
Sadly, you said earlier that you totally dont believe that.. but meh.
I just wish you had put some time into actually finding scum.

I think my player-by player will come in handy tomorrow.

SOMEONE HAMMER PLEASE!

[camn]

Incorrect. Being an unflipped player on vezok's wagon when so much of his wagon has already flipped means that being unflipped on that wagon has become a scumtell.
.

Heh. triple post!

just FTR... I agree completely!

I only support a lynch of someone who was on the VEZO wagon today.

Me, nopoint or Icereint.

I think we can afford to lynch all 3 if we get lucky at night.

HAMMER PLEASE!!!

[camn]

Hah.. this is a fun trick:

Dear Icereint, Mike, and Nopoint.
I have an ultimatum:

THIS ENDS NOW!

IF you can lynch me, do it now.
If you CANNOT lynch me by . . . Saturday night... then I want you to

agree to TABLE the prospect

of lynching me for the rest of the game day.
That way, we can focus on one of the other two people on the Vezo wagon (ideally) OR someone else that ISNT ME.

If you agree to this, please say so.
If not.... then say you don't.

Any of you that agree must unvote Saturday night, or you will have broken your agreement and are scum.
You also may not vote me for the rest of the game day, or you will have broken your agreement, and are scum.

IF ALL OF YOU DISAGREE.. I will self hammer-Saturday night.

If you don't want that to happen.. you should unvote me by then.. . and we can continue to spar for the rest of the day.
If you DO want that to happen.. then by all means... leave your vote up.

That is all.

[camn]

IN THE ABOVE POST... BY ICEREINT I meant SAPOVIRUS.

Stupid short term memory.

Ive been posting them every morning, sir.
Last night I hid in YOUR room, though!

[camn]

I also am hoping by midnight.

But if you CANT manage it.. i dont want to suffer for the rest of the day.

So hurry up! Convince someone! Anyone!

[camn]

Just checked my PM:

I will hide in MikeBurnfire's room.

[camn]

DO you know otherwise?
Are you a light sleeper, and stayed in your room... and DIDn"T see me?

this is important... answer truthfully!

[camn]

oh.
Well thats nice.

Can I take it you DO NOT agree to my

PROPOSAL OF POST 838

, then?
Or

DO YOU AGREE

, given I am still alive saturday night?

[camn]

camn, if you agree that lynching someone on vezok's wagon is ftw, why did you claim it wasn't a scumtell just a moment ago?

If I was bussing, he could be too.. it is not a tell.

Incorrect. Being an unflipped player on vezok's wagon when so much of his wagon has already flipped means that being unflipped on that wagon has become a scumtell.

just FTR... I agree completely!

O.o

Its just semantics.

Being on the wagon is not a tell.
However, from POE, we can reasonably conclude that there was at least ONE SCUM on Vezos wagon, as I know you understand.
But POE cuts both ways.. you AND me are on it. You can't use it as part of a 'case' against me without including yourself in the mess.

But that is irrelevant.

Sapo: do you agree or disagree to my terms?
I have burnfire down as : DISAGREE
And my apologies for including you in my ultimatum, Ice. I got confused about who was on and who was off.
I do like your ability to answer the question, though. It goes to your townieness.

Let me keep track better:

burnfire: DISAGREE
saporoviru: UNCOMMITTED
nopontina: UNCOMMITTED

[camn]

But he wasn't, so his behavior could have misled someone. At best, he was posturing and didn't consider his words very carefully.

SO TRUE!!

[camn]

Oh good.

burnfire: DISAGREE
saporoviru: AGREED
nopontina: UNCOMMITTED

OK, burnfire... that is one agreed.
Get me lynched by Sat, or at least one vote goes down the tubes.

@ Ice: I LOVE finding scum by POE.
BUt calling it "Bussing" was really my issue. Bussing =/= Process of Elimination.
But I see how you meant it more clearly now.

[camn]

And, you are right. MBRs hammer smelled more like a buss than Me starting the wagon out of nowhere.
But we can WIFOM that to death.... using the argument that I am SO GOOD AS SCUM that I insta-buss

ALso.. I actually go to work tomorrow.. so I will disappear for 16 hours now.
I'd like Nopoint's agreement or disagreement...

then I would like you guys to try AS HARD AS POSSIBLE to but together a lynch on me!
At this point, I think everyone on the Vezo wagon needs to die. Nopoint SHOULD be first.. but I am willing. If you guys have the balls

[camn]

Nopoint: what am I agreeing with that I don't understand?
I think there has to have been scum on the Veso wagon.
Ice said that EITHER you or I are scum, but not both.

To me those are different.

Also, I believe I was pretty consistent re: Katsu. .. And I have never been accused of not taking a stance before. I think both of those statements misrepresent my play.

What is your answer to my ultimatum, btw?

I now have
Burnfire: agreed
Sapovirus: agreed
Nopoint : uncommitted

@ mike: it isn't garbage. It is good time management.
The last thing we want is to waste 3 weeks talking about me, then quickwagon Nopoint just before deadline.
This plan avoids that.
You are agreeing to lynch me NOW if you can. If NOT then you give up for the day, and we look at someone else.

[camn]

so..


Burnfire: agreed
Sapovirus: agreed
Nopoint : not agreed.

You have until tomorrow night guys!

Make your case, or prepare to hold your peace for the rest of the day.

And Spy... this is me making something pro-town out of a pile of horseshit.

IN other news.. SPY,
do you agree that there must have been AT LEAST ONE scum on the Vezo wagon?
Is it possible that there was NO SCUM on that wagon? I think not.
I further think they would be on later rather than earlier.
I further think Icereint is town.... thus leaving us with NOPOINTINACTINGUP as scum on the wagon.

But I am willing to go down. It will only narrow our pool of suspects.
Sadly, though.. my sense is one scum OFF the wagon, too.. which is NOT narrow. (Spyrexisscum)

Can anyone dispute my logic?

[camn]

Ah.. burnfire goes back on his word already.

Burnfire: NOT agreed
Sapovirus: agreed
Nopoint : not agreed.

Who is inconsistent now?

It seems we all can agree that there was scum on the Veso wagon then?

As I said, I am willing to die to narrow the pool.
I think you will end up with nopoint-scum in the end.

The question remains... who is the OTHER one? IF one of me and Nopoint is scum... then who else?

PLease try and hunt scum, mike.
You obsession with me is a silly waste of time.
Which is why I am trying to minimize the amount of time that you waste on it.. but you are too screwed up to see it.


Since I only have ONE person who agrees to shift the focus of the discussion come saturday night... I pose the question to the rest of the town:

WILL ANY OF YOU NOT ON THE WAGON AGREE TO MY TERMS?

That is... LYNCH ME NOW (by Sat night)... or table the discussion for the rest of the game day?

This agreement is a good play, and I would like all the people who are NOT FILTHY LURKERS to agree or disagree.

-----------

now, mike.. you seem pretty convinced Elli is town. Why is that? He was on two mislynches with me. If being WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING EXCEPT WHAT SHE WAS RIGHT ABOUT OMG CAMNSCUM is really your argument... then Elli should get some scumpoints, right?

And do you really think that wasting the entire day on a mislynch is good play?
If I am scum, and you are SOOO GOOD of a player... find my partner.

[camn]

Spy.. I don't see it.
Around the quickhammer, I see Katsu acting lane.
Defending Vezo
Actually trying to vote someone else post hammer.

I see TBM in a fury .

Elli gives me a scum twinge on that page.


Icererints ISO comes across very town to me though.
Almost 100% town. If he ends up scum, he is playing VERY well.

Hmm.

[camn]

Are you talking about Ice throwing dirt on you for hammering... When MpR s hammer was way more suspect?

[camn]

Veso hammer = scum
MPR hammer = untested, barely suspected (except by me)
SPYREX hammer = ice's entry point for a potential case?

[camn]

I have no idea what's going on anymore. The back-and-forth between Spy and Icerint looks pointless.

Do you see what Spy is referring to?

[camn]

God damn it, elli.
If you are scum this game I am policy lynching you for lurking for the next year.

[camn]

NOW THAT

!

THAT

is the spyrex I know and love.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ICEREINT

(for all the haters... remember this post?)

SCUM IS IN THESE THREE:::

Spyrex

tanstalas

Tans was feeling pretty town to me, but I don't know him, so maybe he fooled me.
Spyrex has flashes of his town-ness.. but something is strange about him.

Maybescum if nopoint flips town.

nopointinactingup

Far_Cry Budja

POE on the veso wagon puts NP and/or Icrint as scum. NP jumping on the Dizzy wagon was also funny . .

SCUM

.

Iecerint

MehPlusRawr

MPR should have been lynched for the abrupt hammer of Vezo. Icerint saying >I< was bussing Vezo when his pred MPR pulled he biggest buss of all? suspect.

probscum

.......
Spyrex, if you are town.. we need you too. Look at this nonsense.

[camn]

Do we even know how many there are?

I would just encourage Everyone to hide, and tomorrow all light sleepers can confirm townies by claiming who they saw... Given scumlynch today, obv

[camn]

I just fear that the scum would bomb a room, get 3 kills, then it would be 2-1 lylo with shenanigans.

but if it can work, Im for it.

MECHANICS QUESTION

I am not clear... do light sleepers have to stay in their rooms to see who is there? Or can they hide.. AND see?

[camn]

I'll sheep SPYREX when he is in a mood like this Any Time!
I believe in adding power to obvtownies by bloc voting.

Would I rather be voting Nopoint? Yes.
Are Nopoint and Ice partners? Yes.
Do I still think we need to serial lynch the vezo wagon till we hit scum? Yes.
Did you all have your chance to lynch me, but failed to get 4 votes? Yes.

[camn]

no.. YOUR idea of one and ONLY one scum on the Vezo wagon makes no sense.

MY idea of at LEAST one scum on the vezo wagon makes plenty of sense.
And my PLAN to lynch until we see scum, then reassess.. makes even MORE sense.

And Maybe I CANT be lynched! An attempt was made. That attempt failed. I don't think it clears me.. I just think that this TOWN would be better served by moving on, rather than sitting on a suspect (me) that is suboptimal.

And yes.. this is an ObvTown move by Spyrex. You should admit that yourself.

[camn]

Chainsaw much?

Maybe the game would run better if you let Ice defend himself.
He is a lot better player than you, from what I can see, so I can't imagine you are helping him at all.

@ ice: spy jumped onto my townlist. That leaves you and NP on my scumlist. Thus, partners. Obvsubjecttochange.

I await Elli's perspective on things.

[camn]

Literally 100% of people in the game of mafia are mistaken about something at some point in the game....

However, your logic is getting worse and worse as Spyrex's pressure grows.
Tar's Chainsaw Defense is an action. A move. A Tactic. ... Me saying that Mike is Chain sawing is NOT saying that Mike is scum. Just that mike is playing in a suboptimal way.
And that, my friend, is a fact. Mike's chainsaw defense of you is suboptimal.
He is doing it (i believe AS TOWN) because I have totally gotten under his skin and thrown his game straight to hell..... not because he is scum. But nonetheless, it doesn't help the town.

Now, your COUNTER chainsaw is interesting. I can't quite figure if you are defending Mike or NoPoint!

[camn]

Start being scummier and less reasonable please?

[camn]

I actually wasn't being serious, NP. I just have the ability to divorce my feelings about a player from my thoughts about their alignment.

For instance...
I like ice. I like his play. However, I think he is scum... And I will be slightly sad if/when he dies, regardless of alignment.
Unlike you.
I don't like you. I don't think much of your play.. And I think you are scum. I will dance a dance of joy on your grave.

You see how it works?

[camn]

Thus, the simple fact you are self-aware of what you would call 'meta' means, by nature, that meta is worthless....... Meta isn't a shield that you can hide behind.

Incorrect. It is verifiably not scummy when I do it (i.e. in the sense that it doesn't indicate that I am scum). You can do a statistical analysis of when I use self-meta. It is a towntell for me.

YOu are totally proving Spyrex correct here.
The simple fact that you KNOW what your town-meta is makes any META-argument you make wifomed out of towntell land.
YOu might argue it is a NULL tell.. but arguing it is a TOWN tell is bogus bogus bogus.

[camn]

vote: camn

This is not particularly going anywhere and I'm not sure about spyre.

What happened to your agreement?
Do you break your word so easily?

[camn]

I strongly believe that at least one [camn/icerint] is scum, and if we happen to mislynch one of them wrong today, we should strongly consider lynching the other tomorrow.

Agreed. But Nopoint should be in this group too.

[camn]

Bottom line, we lynch Camn-scum today. Me and Iec can be considered tomorrow for being on the Vezo wagon with Camn but Sapo should also be considered tomorrow for her unexplained bussing.

1st: I would support a Sapo lynch TODAY for untrustworthiness.
But I still would rather stick with someone on the Veso wagon.
Tomorrow, if I die, you should DEF hone in on the Vezo wagon.

2nd: the problem with you position on me is this:

You don't have the support for a lynch

, and I am town.
Can you grind out the day fabricating crapcases and jumping on everything I say... and eventually pull a deadline lynch on me? Sure.
But you will have wasted pages of discussion and sapped the energy of the entire town in the process. That is why

I WOULD RATHER SELF HAMMER

than put the town through this.

Me dying NOW avoids the momentum-drain that pushing my mislynch till deadline would bring, as well as narrowing the scum-pool on the veso lynch.

SO DO IT, OR I WILL!

Saporo: I see you have broken your agreement.

That makes all 3 of you in the Disagree category, no?
If so, I self hammer.
If I am wrong.. then get your face back in gear.

Consider this fair warning.
If Saporo confirms that he is violating his agreement, and noone convinces me otherwise, I die tonight.

[camn]

I would like to give Saporo a chance to explain first, wouldn't you?

[camn]

I have actually totally explained my actions. I assure you it makes sense.
I welcome any rational commentary on them that doesn't involve simply typing garbage?

On the other hand, does no one find it problematical that saporo made a gameplay agreement, and then violated it with no explanation?

Ice. How does that vote change your reasoning ?

[camn]

He made an agreement to table it for the rest of the game day.
And his fence sitting IS poor.

I still would rather see Ice hang.

Nopoint sticking with his vote on me yeilds townpoints, IMO.
You, too, mike. But I already have made my view of you clear.

[camn]

Because if he were scum, HE would also know I was town..... and waffle more.
You: your play sucks too much for you to be scum I imagine you would be more savvy and less emotional if you were trying to deceive us.

That is my reasoning on you two right now.

[camn]

I don't quite have the Testosterone you do, Spy.
But I'm right, aren't I.

Smoldering for 3 weeks with 3 votes on me... Fighting off crap case after crap case... Only for someone to drop a reluctant deadline vote for a mislynch.. What could sap the momentum of this town more than that?

I'd much rather play at the brink.
Let's make my death mean something, if I gotta die.

Of course... The scum are too scared to vote me now, right Ice?

[camn]

It's all about saporos integrity now, no?

Will she honor her agreement by supporting a non-camn lynch?
Is she still terrified of being on my mislynch?

This is an interesting pickle.

[camn]

All townies should honor gameplay agreements.

Nopoint: I don't think you would have the guts to stay on a mislynch... Which you would know that this is as scum.
Maybe I'm wrong about you.. But that is my impression.

[camn]

Plus: nobody made Saporo agree to my terms. She did it on her own. Nothing silly about it.

[camn]

Obv, due to the crap nature of the case against me, ANYTHING I do is why I am scum.

Obv.

[camn]

Earlier today, you thought the case on you was good, if equivalent to hypothetical cases on me or NP. Now you are the victim of a crap case.

HA!.. now you are just making things up.
I am going to request a quote here.. because as far as I can remember.. that is untrue.
Sure, I think that the Logic behind POE on the Vezo wagon is good.....
I also actually support lynching ME to narrow the pool of veso-voters...... but how on earth are you contesting that

I AGREED WITH THE CASE ON ME??

let me recap some of my positions lately:

Burnfire: play better! Your entire case is IioA!

Now, can we get on with things? Your case sucks.

Can you grind out the day fabricating crapcases and jumping on everything I say... and eventually pull a deadline lynch on me? Sure.

.. Fighting off crap case after crap case...

You are scrambling, ICE.
Your armor has holes in it.
You are reaching for anything to save you.
Why dont you just tell us who your partner is?

[camn]

OK, Ice... riddle me this.

I have systematically claimed where I hid every night.
It is a given that I can NOT have any knowledge of whether or not a player is a light sleeper or not (except the case of my hypo-scumpartners)
Can you see me risking being caught lying about that?
I can't. Not as scum or town.

Thus, one can very reasonably assume that all of my Hide-claims are true. Even the fact that I hid in Burnfire's room last night.

Given that assumption.. the 'mathematical likeliness' of which you speak evaporates, no?

PLease.. respond with logic.. not nonsense.

IN FACT.. you have admitted that you stayed in your room EVERY NIGHT... which according to YOUR MATH makes you MORE likely to be scum, from an outside perspective... right?

[camn]

I'd actually prefer Saporo to take a stand here, rather than any wagon-hopping.
Except at deadline of course. No-lynch is unacceptable.

[camn]

By wagonhop I was referring to the players who are NOT Saporo.... Like Elli.
And I think Sapos vote is very important to have, information wise, wherever it falls.

[camn]

HEY ICE

You and I need to have a conversation.

Firstly: Let me preface this by saying: I think you are scum. YOu allegedly think I am scum. Fine.
FOR NOW.. let us speak to each other ASSUMING that we are both town, and that one of us is going to get mislynched here and now.

What happens tomorrow?
YOu can see how this is going to play, if you are actually town, right?

What I am saying is this: If I get lynched, and flip town, and lets say NOONE gets killed tonight... you know you are going to get run up like nobodies biz tomorrow.
The same thing will happen to me if YOU flip town and nothing happens overnight.

We are setup to BOTH die if we are town.
Obv, this is bad for the town... how can it be avoided? I can't think of a way.

(OBVIOUSLY.. if one of us is scum and Saporo chooses correctly, that changes everything. Haters stay out of it!)

[camn]

And I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

That is not helpful at all.

[camn]

Saporo needs to vote.
Staying out of this vote is totally anti-town on every level.

And Ice, you better think up new alternatives, cuz Sapo isn't scum with me.

Like: she is scum, and knows I am town, and fears hammering me will earn her the lynch for both breaking her agreements and hammering a townie.
BUT, she cant hammer ICE because it goes against her prior reads...
which equals no good solution.

Which is why she needs to vote.

[camn]

Are you referring to us simply lynching Saporo?

I don't think it is the optimal play.

[camn]

Well.. No worries, Spy
I know i can could on you to lynch me at deadline if Saporo flakes.

Just know that I am going to flip town.
You ALL should start planning for that.

[camn]

WHY DONT I GET TOWNPOINTS FOR THAT???

I have already established why my hide-claims are legit.
MikeBurnFire did say I was lying.. but then admitted that HE was lying.... but I guess Ice doesn't think THAT is too scummy since they are voting together now....WHY DOESNT MIKE GET SCUMPOINTS FOR BLATANTLY LYING?


ICE IS SCUM.

[camn]

Only according to you, scum.

You used to be so logical.

What about Mike's lies? Your scumpinion on them?

[camn]

how are my claims less confirmed?
Are you seriously proposing that I systematically lied every night about my whereabouts, knowing full well that I could be caught at any moment.. for no discernible reason?

Is that your proposition?

Or are you sticking with "I forgot that that happened... but it doesn't change my logic at all"

[camn]

then why do you keep saying it gives NP townpoints, but fail to mention it with me, hmmm?

Because you are scum, and your arguments cannot stand the blinding heat of real logic. Thats why.

[camn]

Ha, what are you accusing me of now? Please enlighten me as to where I lied.

When you said I didn't hide in your room. Remember? That was some anti-town play. Cuz I DID hide in your room! Which, according to Ice, gives me townpoints.

Camn, you are very good at faking town.

YOu will be owing me a cookie.

And what does this even mean??
"camn.. you are coming across really town right now. But I TOTALLY KNOW YOU ARE SCUM OMG OMG so ... well.... um... you must be faking" ???

Nope.
I actually am town.
No faking involved.
You all will find out soon.
Hopefully you will then have gleaned enough info to actually lynch scum.
Hopefully.

[camn]

Jesus, mike.. are you even reading the game anymore?
THis is why we brought you up:

I wasn't here during all that, but I still don't understand why lying would make you town. BUT W/E.

I am not 'flailing'.. I am totally content with my death.

I do like that you are already stringing together lynches, though. Thats fun.

And dont worry, there will be a lynch. But Saporo's vote is totally worth waiting for. Don't try and force a quickhammer by someone else.

[camn]

I think stringing together lynches is bad play.
I think you are playing badly.

And you, sir, called ME a liar.. which I am also not. (except when I am) You see.. given that this is a game based on lies and deception, I dont think your protest is relevant.

Furthermore.. learn to read the rules:

This game will have 2 week deadlines. At deadline, the player (or No Lynch) with the most votes will be lynched. In the case of a tie, the tie breaker will be the player who has the first active vote on them. Should there be no active votes at deadline no one will be lynched.

That would be me, since I got votes first, IIRC.... so get your little panties out of a twist and start helping us win.
If this gets chalked up as a loss because of your lack of ability use your reasoning skills.. I will track you down and grudgekill you repeatedly

[camn]

UNVOTE
VOTE SAPOVIRUS

[camn]

HA!

Claim or Die, Saporo.
Don't try disappearing again!
Your PLAY would be useful.


Nice fence sitting BTW. Are you " still not utterly convinced of her scum-ness"?
If not, what strengthened your resolve?
Or are you just tacking on a vote with soft, wishy washy reasoning so as to avoid looking super scummy when I flip town?
Is that it?

[camn]

WHOA.. I missed that last post!

Replacing that slot seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

[camn]

YOu would be satisfied, with your total lack of interest in finding scum

And we wont see Ice tomorrow... any thoughts about that?

[camn]

lynch-worthy, no?

[camn]

I'll hammer ice if you can rally a vote.
Though his vote hop seems a little bit town-inspired, if you ask me...

Saporo-Nopoint is seeming more likely in my mind.

I hope Nopoint will get some heat tomorrow, if I die today.

[camn]

I wish NP made more sense.
Is it Saporo-Camn scum? If so, vote Saporo, and let's get a lynch. Or are you just saying that you are "fine" with Saporo dying to distance yourself from her, while keeping your vote somewhere else?
Put your vote where your mouth is. If you have the guts.

[camn]

Totally fair play, spy. I need to die just for the flip at this point.

That being the hammer, I'll tell you all:
Town heavy sleeper.
My location claims were all true.

[camn]

Just start reviewing my posts now, with my flip in mind.

The truth will set you free.

[camn]

Ah, a good sportsman too.

Luckily there are other townies still. A win is likely despite the BURNFIRE!

[camn]

I was the buddy of course. I got away with SO MANY MISLYNCHES! Kekekeke

curses. Foiled again.

[camn]

God I wish I was better at this game!