Mafia 90-Lolwat? Mafia, Game Over, Mafia Win

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

/checking in

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Mass prod???

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Bandwagoning is bad

Is it?

Why yes it is.

Funny, I never received that memo.

vote: MafiaSSK

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

why isn´t there a bandwagon on mafiassk yet

He seems scummily skittish about the possibility of dying on day 1. Not exactly a townie reaction.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

confirm vote:Lowell

Have you lost your mind?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

confirm vote:Lowell

Have you lost your mind?

I don't think so. Why, have you found one?

Yes, it was acting irrationally, so I traced it back to you.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Everything I've done so far has been rational. Not sane, necessarally, but rational.

If you are acting rationally, shall I assume that you did not read your role PM carefully?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I support Koichi's line of questioning.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Frankly, it's bizarre and kind of scummy to assume someone is a jester just because they look scummy.

I try not to confuse 'assume someone is a jester' with 'suggest your buddy might be a jester so townies lay off him.'

I'm willing and able to hammer Litral or his buddy Vino.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

anyway,

unvote, vote: litral

and

fos: vino

for being his scumpartner

WOW great minds sure do think alike.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

The vote at #199 is the only thing keeping me from seeing a strong Litral/Vino connection, and I actually like the reasoning for the vote.

don't let the desperate late distancing fool you

Oh god this is such a townie post. Let it stand for eternity as a example to the rest of us amateurs.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

If you're not scum, you're a distraction of the highest order, and the town will be better off without you either way.

this sentence is a

huge, glaring scumtell

Yeah you're right but I can vouch for Koichi's relative trustworthiness.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

For density of mind, and until he sees the light:

unvote, vote: HeadHoncho

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I believe the mason claim at #215 for now, and I also don't believe that everybody in the mason group Lowell speaks of is likely to be town given its claimed size.

Agreed. Lowell made the right decision.

It's certain that at least one is scum. Minimum of one. Maybe even two.

This is not a conventional strategy, but perhaps we ought to consider lynching a mason today, or at least early in the game. Right now, randomly, we have a >16% chance of killing a scumbag if we lynch a mason. I doubt this scum mason is Lowell on account of the claim. I know I'm not a scum mason, but that's useless information for the rest of you. But from my vantage point, of the 4 remaining mason, there's a really good chance of hitting scum with >25% likelihood.

As I pointed out earlier, Yosarian, who I am officially outing as a member of the group (along with myself), who is generally a shy voter, started out by voting fellow mason group member Lowell, after which I accused him of not reading his PM, something he has failed to address.

I would consider lynching Yosarian.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

The beauty of this strategy is that the scum might not want to kill the masons, for this will be tantamount to outing themselves as scum over time. So we're going to have to do it.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

If you out any more members of the group, then mason buddy or not, I am going to vote for you and keep my vote on you until you are dead. You DO NOT GIVE AWAY ROLES ON DAY ONE FOR NO REASON!

And why is that, scum?

*** I think I caught a live one ***

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

willing to lynch: (litral, gnkoichi*, yosarian*)

*if a consensus on lynching this player is reached by penguins and lowell

Add in the list of players you are willing to lynch, wink wink, nudge nudge:

Orangepenguin, and Numberfourteen.

Come to think of it, didn't orangepenguin vote me? Maybe, like Yosarian2, he's spending all his energy keeping track of his scumbuddies rather than his ahem other buddies.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Huh? So, you go from thinking I'm town to thinking I'm scum, because I'm really annoyed one of my mason partners outed me as a mason, in a situation where it's pretty obvious there was absolutly no good reason to do so?

Given that the scum concentration in the mason group may be higher than the general population, outing masons might be a very effective way to hunt scum.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

It's not "way overboard", and there is absolutly nothing "emotional" about my statement that if she outs any more mason partners that we will have to lynch her, and that I will vote for her until she is dead.

Do that, scumbag, and the more dead town masons litter the morgue, the higher the chances that the scum masons will be weeded out.

In other news.

Vino is still scum.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Yos, perhaps I'm making too many assumptions here. Like I said before, this is my first non-newbie game. If one of the masons is a scum, then knowing that people are masons does not make them confirmed townies.

Well, yes, obviously. I'm still wondering why you seem to be assuming that one of the masons is scum, though.

Therefore we have to route the scum before we can establish which of the masons are townie masons. Also we have to know how many scum masons exist in the game, which hopefully is only 1, because >1 would be quite complicated to find.

Which is also an odd part of your post; if there are scum masons, why would you assume there is only 1? Or, how would we find out how many there are, or whatever?

^^^^

Award-winning bus'ing.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I actually don't care who the masons are. Like I said it doesn't matter to me, half of them are scum anyways,

and the scum already know

or will know shortly

who they are

, so town might as well know too.

Remarkable insight into what scum knows.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I actually don't care who the masons are.

You just spent a whole post trying to find out who the masons are, speculating, asking people, ect. Now you're going to pretend you don't care?

Like I said it doesn't matter to me, half of them are scum anyways

Um...what? Do you know something I don't?

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round...

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I actually don't care who the masons are.

You just spent a whole post trying to find out who the masons are, speculating, asking people, ect. Now you're going to pretend you don't care?

Something is quite scummy about this mason group, so the revelation that it exists means nothing to me.

Like I said it doesn't matter to me, half of them are scum anyways

Um...what? Do you know something I don't?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Obviously only one or two, but it means that about the same ratio of general players to scum exists for mason players to scum

Again, I don't have any information that implies that any of the masons are scum. It certanly is possible, perhaps even likely, but it sounds like you know more then I do. Which is only possible if you are also scum.

so knowing which of the masons are scum is useless until the scum is routed and we can confirm townie masons.

Ummm...what? That dosn't make any sense at all to me. What are you talking about? How can we "confirm townie masosn", and why are you talking like you know for a fact that some masons are scum?

A whole fleet of Greyhounds heads out of the garage.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

'Serengeti, you

did not address my questions.

I want to know:

* Why did you vote Honcho for no given reason?
* Why did you defend GnKoichi for no given reason?
* Why did you feel it necessary to out Yos as a mason? You could have pushed a lynch on Yos without claiming mason and outing him.

These are all scummy things and I want them accounted for. And let me add to it:

* Why are you pushing mason lynches?

Answer these questions or invoke a vote from me.

AHahahaha. Seriously. Read more carefully. Facepalm yourself. Relax and enjoy your lynch.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Scumlist:

Vino
Yosarian2
numberfourteen for post 292

unvote, vote: Vino

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Do you think that the scum doesn't already know? I think the town should know what the scum already knows. Level playing field.

1. Yos is throwing suspicion on other masons? I thought he was bus'ing Vino, who isn't a mason. Hey #14 are you confusing your mason buddies with your scumbuddies?

2. Even it there's only one, as I explained, it's still a good idea.

3. In the event of a mason's death, other players should be able to look at their voting records, and identify who the dead mason has NOT voted for. So Masons voting for other masons early in the game, before the masons are out and before there is a strategy on how to deal with such a mega mason group, are either on crack, or scum. I was trying to make sure the record was straight in the event of our deaths.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

OK I think there are two scum masons, Yosarian and Numberfourteen.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

In the event of three scum and one of them is a mason, there is a 3/16 chance that a random player is a scum and a 1/5 chance that a random mason is a scum. That makes an 18.75% chance of lynching scum if we use a random player and 20% chance of lynching scum if we use a random mason. The difference is statistically insignificant and not worth exposing fellow masons over. If there are four scum then a random player actually has a greater chance (25%) of lynching scum than a random mason. Claiming there are multiple scum masons is a great way to make your chances seem greater. Either way it is pretty scummy to vouch for killing masons.

Are you pretending not to know how many masons there are? I'm the one talking to a wall, haha.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Oh and BTW clever players know that I've outed ALL the masons.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

While I'm at it, I should point out that Serengeti decided I was scum at 193 but didn't vote me until 297, after I had three or four other votes on me. That vote and alvin's are the two I view as scummy bandwagoning.

My poor little heart was torn between wanting to lynch you, or the mason that was bus'ing you, namely, Yosarian.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Okay, so I agree that it is not scummy to have revealed all the Masons. This can be seen as a pro-town move, as it gives the town information that the scum assumably has or will have soon. However, Vino is right about one thing. If Penguins was scum, and a Mason, and knew that the rest of the Mason team was town, it would be a GREAT move to out us, saying he's trying to flush the scum members of the Masons out.

Oh please lynch me; you'll find out my alignment, and narrow down the list of targets. Like, say, orangepenguin and Yosarian2 that had to remember both a scum team and a mason team, and seem to have got it mixed up.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

i'd rather lynch vino

Me too, if Vino flips scum, Yosarian is 100% Greyhound-driving scum.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

1) I opened a can of worms, clearly, that penguins jumped on. I'm not sure whether I'm happy or not. My question to

PoS: were you intending on outing the masons if I hadn't started the trend?

I was considering it, seeing as how some masons were, against all mason role wisdom, voting against each other. No joke here, I really do think they confused their mason buddies with their scum buddies. There is no other explanation as to why they'd vote their mason buddies. Yosarian had to come up with some great old big excuse, as did orangepenguin, but it doesn't fly with me. Your first duty, as a mason, is to NOT vote other masons. If you do, you can totally discredit your mason buddies, and your own claim. And after you're dead, people can see that you voted a mason, and they will conclude that this mason you voted cannot possibly truly be a mason, doing terrible harm to the town.

You see the word MASON in your PM - that means there's a list of people you cannot vote for under any circumstance, except the express suspicion that there may be a scum mason.

I kinda outed myself and Yos early on, when I told Yos he should read his bloody PM more carefully. And he didn't say, as a mason should "oops I didn't mean to vote (insert name of mason buddy he voted for) at all, I was completely drunk and smoking crack and hallucinating heavily." He just kept on as if nothing had happened.

Now I'm sure Yos will respond to this with a lengthy and tiresome explanation about how he didn't backtrack on his mason vote because he didn't want to out the masons, but it is my opinion, which I predict he will dispute hotly, and once you breach the sacred mason code of honor of not voting against each other, it's better to out yourself.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Lowell's action would not be wise if he were a scum mason. Therefore I believe him to be a town mason.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Lowell's action would not be wise if he were a scum mason.

Interesting. How so?

For a bunch of reasons, scum.

First of all, as a scum among masons, he would not want to draw attention to himself the way he did.

Second, with 6 masons, he knew that the idea of scum masons would be kicked around. So drawing attention to himself = bad idea. He would have wanted to fit in, not stand out.

Third, he would know that the scum knows who the masons are. There would be no advantage to him outing masons publicly and draw fire for it, if he were scum. Nothing for the scum team to gain.

Lowell as scum makes no sense whatsoever and he is the towniest of all the masons (including myself, if I can be objective).

One corollary is that a scum mason would be the one out faking the most outrage at the masons being outed. To appear even more of a mason than the real masons, and get extra 'mason cred.'

So I don't buy Lowell as a scum mason. Not at all.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Somebody prove that #356 isn't WIFOM.

Calling everything WIFOM is a great scum tactic. Oh but even saying that calling WIFOM is especially useful to the scum, is WIFOM.

SC is climbing the ladder on my scumlist.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

you seem unduly paranoid about the possibility of being lynched today, when a quick glance at the vote count makes that seem very unlikely

Did you notice Yosarian's need to use the words 'pro-town' repeatedly?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I'm also pretty sure that, if I'm right and you and penguins are both town, the scum are going to leave you and penguins alive long enough to use you guys to lynch me later.

Nice. More twisted than a telephone cord.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I'm also pretty sure that, if I'm right and you and penguins are both town, the scum are going to leave you and penguins alive long enough to use you guys to lynch me later.

Nice. More twisted than a telephone cord.

It's also the truth, and I can't see any way around it. Especally now that your damn claim has made sure any SK or whatever now knows that neither you nor I are any threat to him, so we'll probably both make it to endgame.

??????????????????

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Well, that was one of the reasons I didn't want you to out the masons; I thought I had already mentioned it. Yes, if there's a scum mason, then the mafia will find out (or may have already found out) who all of us are; but if there's a second scum group; like say a SK (and I have a hard time imagining Nat not putting a SK his game, based on my meta of him as a mafia player) then he wouldn't know who the masons were, until you told him, Penguins.

Yosarian is a SK mason.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Well, blah blah blah what about the SK

unless you're the sk

Wow, I made my post before seeing this. Hilarious.

So essentially what you are saying is, "Anybody who attacks me is scummy." That's been your attitude since day one, anybody who criticizes you is automatically scummy in your mind. You're probably going to call this post scummy for just pointing it out.

Yes. But as you know I've been finding you scummy for quite some time, so your comment is rubbish.

Penguins of the Serengeti [...] says I'm calling everything WIFOM when I've only called one post such. That's reason enough.

I meant it as a hyperbolic generality, not as a particular, and you know this. You are twisting things, scum.

We should kill StrangerC, Vino and Yos.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

@Penguin: Uh, please explain why you outed all the masons.

I explained it already. The probability of all masons being town is close to zero. My first though when I saw that long mason list in my PM was 'which one is scum?' So the scum already knows.

Then, TWO masons broke the cardinal rule of masons not voting each other, that is, Yosarian and orangepenguin. After they screwed up, there was no way that the town could deduce who the masons are by their voting patterns, if the town masons were dead. The surviving scum masons could have easily exploited the mason mess ups.

So now everybody, including the townies, know who the masons are.

I also considered what we might become NK-bait. But then, it's so certain that at least one, if not more than one, of us is scum, that every time the scum nightkills a town mason, they are narrowing the field and exposing themselves. They'd be foolish to do that. Now I had not considered the issue of the SK; but since the SK is Yosarian, he too won't want to expose himself by targeting the masons for the NK.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

In other news, Litral is still scum.

So the list has grown. Litral, Yosarian, Vino and StrangerCoug.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

As of right now, they are tied, but PotS has been on the way up in scumminess, and Litral has recently started dropping in scumminess, so we will see where the day takes us...

I love this. Could be be because one player was lurking and had to be prodded, and the other is posting a lot in an effort to shake the scum out of hiding even if that means drawing the fire to herself?

Which reminds me, I accidentally dropped #14 from my scumlist in my most recent post.

Thus, in the name of accuracy, and for posterity:

SCUMLIST: Litral, Numberfourteen, Yosarian, Vino and StrangerCoug.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

The problem is that now the SK probably won't kill us, and instead, will be much more likely real town power roles, when I would much rather he would kill glorified townies like us.

I hadn't thought of

that.

It's as if you can read the mind of how a serial killer would behave in this game, it's truly uncanny, the detail in which to see the SK's point of view rather than, say, the more populous and prevalent mafia, which, I dunno, I presonally feel is more of a threat given that so far we had no night and no evidence of a serial killer.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

You also conveniently forget how you and orangepenguin put a monkey wrench in the masons' voting patterns that the scum could have exploited later.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Copter is not acting anti-town at all. Where do you get this? He's expressing opinions, sticking his neck out, and moving things along. He doesn't hurt every game he's in, that's total and utter rubbish.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Lol. Yeah, it's bizzare, it's almost like I might know what the right way to play a SK is, like I might have some insight into mafia game theory or something.

Was your PhD thesis on insights into the mind of serial killers, which you personally researched by killing people at night?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Also, PoS, I made the same mistake for agreeing with everything rolf said in Fire and Ice mafia, and I only got burned. rolf was town, but he was still wrong on all his suspicions.

Both Copter and I tend to play by gut I think, and our guts tend to inpendently reach similar conclusions. I don't influence his judgement, he doesn't influence mine. We just happen to see the same sort of things, and reach the inevitable same conclusions.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I still do not understand PotS problem with a mason voting for another mason... it makes very little sense when you even said yourself that there are almost for sure scum among the masons.

Have I not explained this ad nauseum? Go read my posts.

PotS I would like to hear a detailed summary on why you think every one on your scum list is scummy. And why it seems that the only people on your list, are the people who have attacked you. coincidence?

Refresh my memory. Didn't I attack you first? And what about Vino? Am I not suspicious of Vino because Yos is bus'ing him so vigorously? No wonder I think you're scummy.

I would also like to know if anyone with a vino or PotS vote thinks that they are both scummy, or is it pretty split that either you are against PotS, or against Vino?
Me personally I don't see too much reason to be against Vino. He did have one real scummy post, but I cannot find anything else in any of his post that is very antitown.

Wow. Just wow. How manipulative.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Oh, I don't see where Penguins is going where he is basically calling me scummy, because I random voted him. First of all, I did a vote and then unvote simultaneously, so it never was a valid vote. I didn't vote him because I thought he was scum. I didn't vote him because he was a mason partner. It was just my random joke vote I never got to use. I chose him *gasp* because my username has penguin in it and so does his, so I figured I'd make a joke about that. I don't see any relevance in his point.

YOU DON'T VOTE YOUR MASON BUDDIES - that's the code of honor. That's how masons breadcrumb their buddies, by not voting each other. If you voted for me, especially at the random stage, this will be interpreted later as 'POTS & OP were NOT buddies because OP voted POTS.'

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

To answer another question, the masons do have a QT but we don't day talk, and we were not allowed to talk during the pre-game.

I still think Yosarian and OP lost track of their mason buddies, having to remember their scum buddies more urgently.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Again I was inaccurate in my scumlist, I forgot orangepenguin:

SCUMLIST: Litral, Numberfourteen, Yosarian, Vino, orangepenguin and StrangerCoug.

Yes three of them are masons. orangepenguin may be the least scummy in the lot, the rest are pretty much equivalent but for different reasons. I'm willing to lynch any of these players.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Vino: I'm just getting scum vibes from SC.

According to some people in this game, you are displaying anti-town behavior with this post. They'll let it slide, though, because you don't make the scum as nervous as I do.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

What is your level of certainty of that scum list?

How can I possibly know? These things can't be quantified. Enough certainty to be willing to lynch.

And BTW. I've been playing this game for years. I've never been accused of being 'anti-town' until very recently in this game. Before this rumor gets some legs, I suggest you try a little harder to understand how I play, you'll see that there is nothing anti-town about it.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Copter is not acting anti-town at all. Where do you get this? He's expressing opinions, sticking his neck out, and moving things along. He doesn't hurt every game he's in, that's total and utter rubbish.

Yeah, right. Most of his recent contributions, as are yours, are OMGUS attacks. In addition, other games are irrelevant to this one as far as tells are concerned.

Um...what? Most of his posts have either been attacking me (not OMGUS) or attacking Vino (not OMGUS), or attacking Literl (not OMGUS). So, again...what?

The above is a reminder for Number14 who is still imagining that the only players I find scummy are for plain old OMGUS.

Those are the words of the SK himself, you know his opinion is objective.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

@everyone, is there a secret code of not voting for your mason buddies?

Stop playing dumb. It's not a secret code. It's a wise convention.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

^^^ That's what I've done.
And unlike you, I don't spew out the first half-formed, half-witted idea that pops into my head. Rest assured, I'm not done with Koichi yet. I just think there aare better lynches - and yours is one of them.

Seriously, what is it that you do, exactly, that's more useful than what the rest of us are doing?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

REVISED SCUMLIST: KoCydonia, Litral, Numberfourteen, Yosarian, Vino, orangepenguin and StrangerCoug.

For the record, KoC is not voting me, so there's no OMGUS there, either.

Egads, Lowell is so town.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Do you mean to say there are seven anti-town roles in this game? What would they be, in your opinion?

I dunno... but your 'guess' is going to be better than mine.

Look, that's ridiculous. 100% of the scum isn't on my scumlist, and all the players off my scumlist aren't 100% town. The list is made up of people I strongly suspect and would be willing to lynch. That's self-evident. To suggest that all, and only, my suspects are scum is mega misrepresentation.

But of course, you're scum, and I expect it.

BTW, I'm still bothered with your hesitation to claim, because you were only at minus 3. Scum hates claiming, and you don't seem to be eager to.

unvote, vote: Vino

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Saying "Scum hates claiming" is a misrepresentation of the reality that most roles, scum or town, dislike claiming.

My experience is very different, otherwise I wouldn't have expressed the opinion.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Saying "Scum hates claiming" is a misrepresentation of the reality that most roles, scum or town, dislike claiming.

My experience is very different, otherwise I wouldn't have expressed the opinion.

My experence is that scum who think they have a safe claim love to get it out as soon as they possibly can. *cough**Lowell**cough*

I can't believe you're even

suggesting

that Lowell may be scum. I can't put my finger on it, but that's not usually how you think. There is no reason for a scum mason to out himself early Day 1

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I would like for ScumCougar to list who else he finds scummy, and explain, in detail, why he's not voting for them instead of me.

If the players below are not in his list, I want to his opinion of them to be clearly stated for the record:

KoCydonia
Litral
Numberfourteen
Yosarian
Vino
orangepenguin

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Orangepenguin, are you dense on purpose?

There is a difference between UNCLAIMED mason not voting each other for the purpose of breadcrumbing their partners and preventing future confusion in case they are killed, and actually voting your mason buddy with an explicit suspicion that you think your mason buddy is a scum mason.

AFTER I'M DEAD - I hope that all players that played the 'stupid card' are vigged and lynched in short order.

Those that are voting me, are voting for a lynch, since I have already claimed.

Even if I turn out to be the Day 1 lynch, I want everyone to remember that there will then be 5 masons. And I am willing to bet the farm that not only one mason is scum, but that there very well be more than one.

That means that after I'm dead, the chances of killing a scum mason are greater than they are now. The chances of killing a scum mason will increase to a minimum 20% or maybe 40% - or maybe even more. If there are two scum factions, I would not be surprised if there is a representative of both, and if there is a SK, I would not be surprised if we have a SK scum mason.

I personally suspect A LOT of the masons, obviously. Moreso now than earlier in the game. Except for Lowell, the mason group is very dodgy. Orangepenguin, Numberfourteen, and Yosarian especially, and not necessarily in that order.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I BELIEVE I AM AT LYNCH MINUS TWO.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Look at the players that are voting me:

Empking's Alt
Vino
StrangerCoug
GnKoichi *
numberfourteen *
orangepenguin *

THREE of them are masons. So I'm telling you, this mason group is full of scum. I am not one of them. But after I'm dead, it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

I am very impatient, however, to prove ScumCougar dead wrong, as I probably find him just as irritating as I find him.

unvote, vote: Penguins of the Serengeti

The next vote is a hammer.

I count on the town to avenge my death and rid itself of the remainder of this dubious mason group. Because after I'm gone, it's going to be way more dubious than it is now.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

EBWOP

I am very impatient, however, to prove ScumCougar dead wrong, as I probably find him just as irritating as he finds me.

I'm sorry roflcopter for leaving you to fend for yourself in such poor company.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

If Serengeti flips town, I would tend to look for players that she got along well with. Normally I would look for players that she got along poorly with in this circumstance, but if she was town and made this much of a ruckus, I think a likely scum behavior would be to encourage her. Under those lines, Lowell and roflcopter are where to look.

WOW can you be scummier??? There's like, seven layers of WIFOM in there, and lining up townies for further lynches!!!

I always get along with Lowell and roflcopter. Go ahead and meta this, you can check this game for roflcopter: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9842 and pretty much any game I've played with Lowell.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I usually get along with rolfcopter too, but I guess he found another penguin to fly with.

Anyways, the self-vote was REALLY scummy. The next vote will not be the hammer if it takes 9 to lynch if Vino is right.

It sounds like you're anxious for a lynch, scum.

Looks like you were trying to catch someone attempting to hammer you.

And if I were, you'd conclude that this would be a scum tactic, perhaps???

If you are town, then you are doing a poor job, considering 6 people, including yourself, want to lynch you, and you're not doing a good job of scum hunting if you are keeping your vote there any longer, and doing a disservice to the town.

I don't give a rat's tutu whether I'm doing a poor job, or a great job, by your evaluation.

I think I am doing a great job shaking things up and getting the scum to reveal themselves. And after I'm dead, it'll be extremely obvious who is scum pretending to be dumb and scum making up rubbish cases.

The town is being totally wimpy not responding to proven worthless arguments totally made up by the scum, and letting itself being led by the scum. Like the idea that voting unclaimed masons is OK, like the idea that my votes were OMGUS when they in fact were demonstrably not, and a whole bunch of blatant misrepresentations.

So tomorrow, my lynch will shine a hard light on many players. If I need to die in order to wake up this apathetic town and give it a chance to win, so be it.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

ok sreiously, i'm really durnk and haven't read the recent posts but why is penguins getting voted when she's so obvious town? i don't understand this at all.

this is not a lynch that should be happening. for reals.

Be a friend, hammer me.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

We have plenty of time left before our deadline, and I can be convinced that we should have more discussion before we lynch anybody. If she gets another vote some time soon, I intend to remove mine to help prevent hammering until a general consensus is agreed upon.

Oh come on. If I'm at minus 1, and I get hammered, that's a concensus. What other kind of concensus do you think is going to happen????? Why delay it? I cannot wait another minute to prove ScumCougar wrong so that I can root for his lynch tomorrow from the sidelines of the dead players.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

ok sreiously, i'm really durnk and haven't read the recent posts but why is penguins getting voted when she's so obvious town? i don't understand this at all.

this is not a lynch that should be happening. for reals.

Be a friend, hammer me.

nuh uh

No really you'd be putting me out of my misery. A hammer of mercy.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

And you know that a bunch of logic impaired players, which are numerous here, are going to string you up for NOT hammering me.

This game makes me so sad.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PotS.. Why would you vote yourself if you were town? To prove a point? That makes no sense. If you are that sure that you are going to die, why not wait it out and let people gather more info to make a better decision? "I'm Impatient" is a bad excuse when you signed up for a game that you expect to take a couple months to play.

So do everyone a favor and unvote, then stop trying to defend yourself and so some scumhunting that would be a lot more help to the town then your attempted suicide.

No.

A self-vote is the surest, and fastest way to get oneself lynched. Trust me, I have experience, I've done it before, and more than once. A self-vote never, ever helped me survive. Every self vote I made resulted in my getting lynched the very same day, and in short order - usually by opportunistic scum with the convenient motto: "I always vote to lynch self-voters."

I've done all my scumhunting in this game. I stuck my neck out, I made things move, and I told you who the scum is.

And since no one is making the effort to analyze the crap cases made against me, and throwing them to the curb, I want to be lynched. You will then know my alignment, and my scum list will suddenly become more credible. And then you will look back to the crap cases made against me, and you will lynch these people if the town develops a backbone and stops letting the scum set the agenda.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Lowell - for once, I agree with you. About the whole "policy-lynch someone who self-votes" bit, at least. I've thought about it, and frankly, Penguins was always only just behind Vino and roflcopter for me, so unless I get told explicitly not to, I will hammer within the nexxt hour or so.

Hey that's interesting, Lowell just said that HE WILL NOT policy lynch me for self voting.

And you say that you AGREE.

But then you CONTRADICT yourself, and that you're ready to lynch me within the HOUR unless told differently?

Like what are the chances that someone will come and defend me within ONE HOUR???

And besides, I'm not even at minus one. SOMEONE is VERY, VERY eager to lynch.

You ARE on my scum list for a reason, KoC.

unvote

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS, you need to consider the possibility that not all people on your wagon are scum.

It's really difficult for me not to, given how impervious more than half the wagoners are to basic common sense and logic. Usually, that kind of 'playing dumb' is something that scum does with much success.

If you're town, rest assured, we won't get along next game we meet.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

WHAT!? Penguins of S, you self voted! The only reason to ever do this is when you're scum and you want to cut a conversation short.

Seriously, how can you even suggest that you KNOW that scum does this when they want to cut the conversation short???? You're pulling 'evidence' out of your keister and you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Check out this game, Haiku Mafia:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ight=haiku

Here I was, a townie, where I, as 'Toaster Strudel', hammered myself out of sheer frustration of being outscummed. Most of the townies were lazy and inactive, and the scum was posting a great deal, and I was totally outnumbered and outposted. I figured that the scum deserved to win, and the town deserved to lose, and there was no need for me to suffer any further in the process of the scum's inevitable win.

So you haven't any insight whatsoever as to why people might vote themselves.

You can't self vote and then accuse someone else of pushing an early lynch.

I HAVE DONE NOTHING OF THE SORT, SCUM BAG.

Especially when the person you accuse says they would have unvoted to prevent you from reaching L-1. This is clearing just an attempt at sowing more chaos, like you've done all game. I WILL push your lynch. I WILL call for a hammer, and when I do so, it will NOT be pushing an early lynch. Your lynch is late in my eyes.

THIS NEVER HAPPENED, and I have not even ATTEMPTED such a gambit - but it's a reason for you to push for my lynch?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Cross post, obviously PoS is now at L-3.

And nice try with that trap, PoS, but no one is going to fall for it. You self-vote, claim that a hammer is coming, then wait for someone to try and hammer you, point out that it ISN'T a hammer, unvote, and call the other player scummy for pushing an early lynch. YOU are scummy for setting such a HORRIBLY trap.

What trap?????????????????

There was no freakin' trap.

God you are so scum.

PEOPLE: all of you inexperienced players. This is the sort of stuff that scum pulls ALL THE TIME.

Koichi is pretending that I set up a trap. And I does not matter how many times I explain that there was no trap. Him and his buddies are going to keep bringing up that imaginary trap.

Kirk out.

OK

Please

I can't take this game anymore.

Someone put me out of my misery.

vote: Penguins of the Serengeti

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Cross post, obviously PoS is now at L-3.

And nice try with that trap, PoS, but no one is going to fall for it. You self-vote, claim that a hammer is coming, then wait for someone to try and hammer you, point out that it ISN'T a hammer, unvote, and call the other player scummy for pushing an early lynch. YOU are scummy for setting such a HORRIBLY trap.

VOTE ME NOW SCUM BAG SO THAT I'm a minus one.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Lowell - for once, I agree with you. About the whole "policy-lynch someone who self-votes" bit, at least. I've thought about it, and frankly, Penguins was always only just behind Vino and roflcopter for me, so unless I get told explicitly not to, I will hammer within the nexxt hour or so.

You too, scum.

You and Koichi get your act together and hammer me.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS: If you wanted to lend credibility to your scum list, you should have provided better analysis all game.

It's very clear who I find scum and why. Get lost.

Outing the mason group was NOT a mistake after TWO freakin' masons were voting other masons, and screwing up the mason breadcrumb signals. The town had the right to know what the scum knew.

Here kids. This is another sign of scumbags at work. This is a scumtell. What is shown above in big bold red letters is bloody obvious. I shouldn't need to repeat it a hundred times. It goes without saying. What scum does, is pretend they don't hear.

For this reason, you are getting lynched, and you helping that lynch is a scum move, not a town one.

You are completely wrong, and hopelessly pig headed. You need to be proven wrong. I want my alignment out there.

There are a lot of made up on the spot theories being made that ought to be discredited now.

If this is some kind of elitism thing for you and rofl, drop it. Town has it hard enough as it is.

How would you know, scum?

You have created this situation, and if you flip town, the only thing we will have learned is what a bad town player you really are.

No. You will learn who the scum is in this game, which you already know.

I will be vindicated at end game.

MESSAGE to the TOWN:

Get off your arses and start posting. In this game, the scumbags are VERY ACTIVE and you, the townies, are not doing enough. I am very very clearly outscummed in this game. If you continue to let the scum walk all over you, they will win within three days.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I am very impatient, however, to prove ScumCougar dead wrong, as I probably find him just as irritating as I find him.

Wrong about what?

About my alignment, and your so-called scumtells.

unvote, vote: Penguins of the Serengeti

It may be in a different context, but I'll tell you right now what has been hammered in my head 10,000 times over the course of middle and early high school: Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

I want the permanent solution. My 'problem' is not temporary, it's terminal. It's not suicide, I want euthanasia.

ok sreiously, i'm really durnk and haven't read the recent posts but why is penguins getting voted when she's so obvious town? i don't understand this at all.

Are you oblivious to what she has been doing!?[/quote]Copter knows what's in my heart.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

blah blah blah just a quote and no added content

Help me die

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

You can't self vote and then accuse someone else of pushing an early lynch.

I HAVE DONE NOTHING OF THE SORT, SCUM BAG.

Except you just did - you accused me of pushing for the lynch too quickly when I said I would give you an hour.

An hour is completely ridiculous. The chances that a townie with enough forcefulness is going to show up within an hour and be persuasive enough to start a serious alternative wagon are ZERO, and YOU KNOW THIS, scum. Don't play dumb with me and pretend that you don't know this as it is common sense as plain as daylight.

YES - Yes you are pushing the lynch too quickly.

But be my guest, scum.

Gawd I hope we have a vig, and the vig is on the ball.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Except you just did - you accused me of pushing for the lynch too quickly when I said I would give you an hour.

Kiddies. Learn this tip.

What KoC has just done is a classic scum move. First of all, he's totally twisting what I said, purposely, but that kind of subtle semantics are perhaps too difficult for this dumb doormat of a town to understand.

More simply, he's very anxious to hammer. I know when I'm scum, I can't wait for the day to be over with, the day is a waste of my time. Playing dumb and pretending to scumhunt takes all my energy and as scum, it's more important that ANYONE BUT ME gets lynched, and as quickly as possible. So I can feel, almost read the mind of KoC, who waltzes in this morning, and spots a great opportunity to apply a phony 'lynch all self-voters' policy. Plus, I'm extremely disagreeable when frustrated, so what could be an easier lynch/hammer to get away with?

So here's what he does.

He still wants to avoid appearing eager for the kill, so that night falls and he can kill a townie with his buddies. So he gives me time. ONE HOUR. One hour, on saturday morning, when quite possibly he has SEEN that SOME of his buddies were online or had recently posted. He's hoping that in a quick one-two succession, I can be hammered and done away with.

Now he knows that there's no way in hell that any townie with a backbone (I don't think we have any here, that's why I want out and I want my alignment revealed, maybe that'll wake some people up, and expose the rest as scum) is going to show up and reverse the trend.

But he thinks he ***looks*** like he's not rushing. Don't let him fool you.

Please lynch him tomorrow to respect my memory and my time in this game.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS, I've been voting for you for a long time. Are you even paying attention? I can't even respond to your wall of posts except to say that almost everything you said was a lie. You deny things that anyone can confirm by rereading the last two or three pages. If there are specific things anyone OTHER than you can't find, I'll quote them, but everything I accused you of was accurate.

Quite the opposite; it is YOUR posts that have consisted of misleading, purposely thick-headed gibberish.

But hey. If this town can't see what is so plainly obvious and so easy to detect, and won't take you to task for it, well, I can't and won't win this game screaming all alone against a bunch of scum.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

...I can't even respond to your wall of posts except to say that almost everything you said was a lie. [...] but everything I accused you of was accurate.

After I'm dead, which I hope is in a few hours, I will be vindicated.

It will be shown that everything I said was honest and truthful, as I am, as disagreeable and frustrated as I may be, a townie.

Therefore your accusation that everything I said was a lie will be shown to be completely bogus and trumped up, and again, I do hope we have a vig, and a good one.

By the same token, it will be shown that everything you accused me of was not only inaccurate, but blatantly scummy.

I can't wait.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

What? THat was a perfectly good point, Penguins... sheesh.

Here's another tip for the kids out there.

KoC knows that I hit the nail on the head.

He can't pretend to be dumb anymore, it's going to get too embarrassing. So he's being sarcastic. He's using ridicule.

Now, townies, you can let him get away with stuff like this, sure, but you're going to lose this game.

The scum here are like a steamroller. They're very aggressive. You have to stand up. Get a backbone. You can't win this game just coasting along.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

The annoying thing is, I can't hammer you yet. Need some other bright spark, since you're at L-2, AFAIK. Shame.
At least we agree on something - I can't wait for you to die either, scum.

Why can't you put me at minus one? Then your buddy can drop by and finish me off. Or do you feel it's safer to let a TOWNIE put me at minus one, giving YOU the power to hammer?

Here's another tip for the befuddled town.

Scum tends to chicken out, they don't really like to compromise themselves by voting against a townie.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

The annoying thing is, I can't hammer you yet. Need some other bright spark, since you're at L-2, AFAIK. Shame.
At least we agree on something - I can't wait for you to die either, scum.

Vote for me now. What are you waiting for?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

No, I'm willing to vote, but to be honest, I really want to hammer you, since you're pissing me off so much. So, I'm not chickening out, I'm just happy to wait for a fellow townie to give me a boost.

You are chicken scum.

So I'm right, you are waiting for a townie to give you a boost, eh? I noticed you felt compelled to add the word 'FELLOW' townie to cover your scummy tracks.

This town is so dumb, it's probably going to work. Good job.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

WHAT!? Penguins of S, you self voted! The only reason to ever do this is when you're scum and you want to cut a conversation short.

Here Doctor "I-know-why-people-self-vote" - this one is for YOU:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5879&start=0

Check me out, as Toaster Strudel :

And I hope my self-immolation makes it very clear that Scotmany12 is 100% scum, and that Khelvaster is not to be trusted under any circumstance. Also, please take a close look at Shanba's coyness to reveal results tomorrow.

Town did win.

Again, it's not the first time I get immensely frustrated in a game and hope to get out with my alignment known to all.

So maybe you should revise your theory about what motivates people to self vote. Because it's very wrong.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I think, if anything, Penguins, surely it should be scummier for me to put you at L-1 than to hammer? Surely the fact I'm willing to wait, and put my neck on the line by hammering, is less cowardly than to just put you at L-1 and wait?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

As scum, it's safer for you to hammer. First, your scummy keister is covered by the WIFOM blanket. But most importantly, and I know that how I feel as scum, it gives you more CONTROL as to actually ending the day. You get a TOWNIE to do the REAL sticking his neck out by putting me at minus 1, and then, before that townie has any chance of changing his mind, you HAMMER and end the day promptly and efficiently, because your goal is to get to night.

I suspect this is because your buddy is already on the wagon, and you don't want have all three buddies on the wagon, if indeed you are 3. You need the cooperation of a townie.

I have this sinking feeling that there is more than one scum faction, and that each has a representative in the mason group. I would NOT be surprised with 2/6 scum masons.

After I'm dead the odds are amazingly good that you'll be killing scum, even you shot at random across the mason group. If you use your brains the odds are even better.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Penguins, you do realize it's against the rules of the game to not "play to win", right? "Some people suspect me, so I'm going to punish my side by trying to lynch myself!" is not cool.

I want the scumbags to be exposed. Yes I'm still playing to win. I win with the team, not as an individual player.

Especally since there's some people who I still think are more likely to be scum, like Vino or Literl [...]

Threre's some truth to this but I look at it this way. Once I'm dead and you know I'm town, there will be more certainty as to who is scum and who is town. The town will do better tomorrow.

And I hope that they will make the EFFORT to put this day under a microscope and round up the guilty.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

If you know who the scum is you had a responsibility to remain alive and help kill them.

Well no one is listening anyway, you'll have to draw your own conclusion and do the killing without me.

I won't vote PoS now. Believe it not I find her hysterical rantings interesting.

Believe it not I enjoy ranting hysterically! If I didn't enjoy it I'd stop, haha.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

EBWOP: I will vote her, however, if it comes to that. I'm content to let this play out for now.

Given that I consider you the safest mason, I'm very disappointed you're not thinking more.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Alright I totally have to go and bake a Bailey's Irish Cream cheesecake because I have a dinner invitation and I promised to bring desert.

unvote

because I cannot watch the situation while I'm in the kitchen.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

So, again, if you are pro-town, you should be trying to lynch a scum.

Ah OK.

vote: KnightofCydonia

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

This game has rewarded players like rofl...

How has this game rewarded rofl?

Also, KoC has claimed vanilla. So speculation that he might need to hammer, or have a votecount related poetry restriction are, I hope, for the purposes of injecting humor.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I'm getting a heightened scum alert from GnKoichi for post #598 (everything about it is OFF and against common sense), and a lowered scum alert from Vinoi for post #599 because it sounds like a townie would say.

ScumCougar's post #596, though short, is VERY interesting:

Knight of Cydonia, you're a great poet, but are you going to defend yourself or just post fluff?

ScumCougar was quite harsh and merciless with me, but here he writes a KoC a gentle reminder to stop posting 'fluff' which, if KoC flips scum, is strongly indicative of ScumCougar being KoC's buddy.

I'll go fetch more examples.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Honestly, KoC has little reason to defend himself. This game has rewarded players like rofl and PoS, so he might as well play as poorly as they have. Frankly, I'm getting a little fed up myself, though I'm going to keep pushing what I feel is the pro-town action. My vote stays on PoS until anyone looks worse, and I urge everyone to carefully reread the game and refocus on a real scum hunt.

HERE

Now you have to answer.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

If the players below are not in his list, I want to his opinion of them to be clearly stated for the record:
KoCydonia

None at this time.

Noted.

There's so many connections I'm seeing... Penguins of the Serengeti and roflcopter, Knight of Cydonia acting similarly to Penguins of the Serengeti, and I remember Vino being involved in one (I think Litral)...

ARGH!

This seems to be misleading in a scummy sort of way, though KoC is parodying me, ScumCougar's calling it a 'connection' is a big stretch, unless ScumCougar has a credible explanation for it.

Unvote

This game is way too confusing.

No fooling. It's like everybody is crazy.

He may be saying this because KoC has painted ScumCougar into a corner - by acting like me, ScumCougar has to vote against KoC to be consistent, but he's not ready to vote his buddy as quickly as he was to vote me.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Penguins, the game has rewarded Rofl because despite his terrible play style,

But why are you picking on Rofl in particular? How about Empking & Empking's Alt???? I mean, have you read his posts in isolation? MafiaSSK? Empking especially!

How about this mysterious Empking post?

PoS: If you and KoC turn up scum, will you admit to playing anti-town?

It's a logical tongue-twister without a solution. Why does he even bother making posts like this?

So I find it strange that you are singling out Copter. And if your complaint is baseless accusation, I'd go straight to ScumCougar, but perhaps he's more aggressive and you don't want to take him on?

NOW, please stop trying to evade.

It's rather hypocritical for you to suggest that I'm trying to evade anything since I've been posting like a madman, and totally sticking my neck out, while YOU JUST REFUSED TO ANSWER A QUESTION asked by TWO players because YOUR POST was NOT RE-POSTED in its ENTIRETY, mere MINUTES AGO.

Do you have anything to say about how KoC is clearly emulating your terrible strategies in order to avoid a lynch?

My strategy was to speed up my lynch, not to avoid it. KoC is not emulating me, he is parodying me. Words do matter. Use the right ones if you don't want to be misleading.

Do you think KoC is scummy for his actions? Do you think there's a difference between what he did and what you did? I really want specifics on this one, PoS.

There are huge differences between what he's doing and what I did. For you to suggest that there may be similarities, other than superficial ones, is quite wrong, if not straight up scummy.

The fact that he prematurely claimed vanilla has given me pause. Unlike others that have condemned him for claiming vanilla without having to, I view this as a sign that he may be town, rather than scum. His pre-claim behavior was mega-scummy, so I'm not sure the early vanilla claim is enough of a counterweight to make me change my mind. If he becomes rational again, I'd be actually consider unvoting.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I'm getting a heightened scum alert from GnKoichi for post #598 (everything about it is OFF and against common sense)

What about it is against common sense? This seems like OMGUS, if anything.

Well alright. Since you ask, let me expand on what I thought might be obvious. There are so many internal consistencies that I didn't feel it was necessary to explain them. But OK. I recopied post #598 IN ITS ENTIRETY below.

Honestly, KoC has little reason to defend himself. This game has rewarded players like rofl and PoS, so he might as well play as poorly as they have. Frankly, I'm getting a little fed up myself, though I'm going to keep pushing what I feel is the pro-town action. My vote stays on PoS until anyone looks worse, and I urge everyone to carefully reread the game and refocus on a real scum hunt.

1. "

Honestly, KoC has little reason to defend himself

." I cannot even begin to think why KoC wouldn't have every reason to defend himself against a very small, nascent wagon, while I'm still fresh in the spotlight. Why has he little reason to defend himself? And like the Great Glork once taught me, any sentence that begins with the word 'HONESTLY' should be viewed with suspicion.

2. "

This game has rewarded players like rofl and PoS, so he might as well play as poorly as they have

." True that rofl and myself have a certain affinity for each other, since we share some common elements in our philosophy. However I cannot understand how the game has rewarded me, other than an extremely vigorous DAY 1 wagon that is not yet finished, as evidenced by your continued pushing of my lynch using dubious arguments and misleading wording. And the game has 'rewarded' other players that are lurking to some extent, like Empking, who in my opinion is playing far worse, and certainly way further on the scum scale than copter, so I suggest that you are bringing up Copter to taint him with connections to me.

3. "

Frankly, I'm getting a little fed up myself, though I'm going to keep pushing what I feel is the pro-town action

." Nice of you to acknowledge your being fed up, and understanding KoC's being a little fed up by extension, without giving me the benefit of the doubt, like it's not even worth considering that I might have been fed up beyond reason. Your insertion of the words 'pro-town,' which is something we should be the judge of, may or may not be a deliberate or calculated act.

4. "

My vote stays on PoS until anyone looks worse

" - Well even I reckon it would be hard for anyone to look worse than me, but although I momentarily took leave of my senses yesterday until I baked my cheesecake, you seem to be making excuses for KoC. On one hand you are expressing an unbending will to keep your vote on me, but you are ignoring and making excuses for KoC's parody of my play in verses.

5. "

and I urge everyone to carefully reread the game and refocus on a real scum hunt

." I love this sentence. Are YOU going to re-read the game for a real scum-hunt? No, you won't, because you just said that you'd keep your vote on me UNTIL SOMEONE WORSE CAME ALONG. That sounds like you're shutting down your own scumhunting efforts unless someone does exactly as I did, only much worse, which is impossible. Are you asking that people read again, and remind themselves of previous scummy actions by ScumCougar, Litral, or Vino, for example? I doubt it given your own declaration that you'd vote for no one but me, for all practical purposes.

He may be saying this because KoC has painted ScumCougar into a corner - by acting like me, ScumCougar has to vote against KoC to be consistent, but he's not ready to vote his buddy as quickly as he was to vote me.

Voting for KoC would not necessarily be showing consistency, since many of us find you scummy for many reasons in addition to your self vote, and KoC's self vote can be seen as a fed up townie much more easily than yours.

First of all, there are 'many of us' that DO NOT FIND ME SCUMMY.

Second, if you read carefully, you'll notice that people have been finding KoC scummy for reasons COMPLETELY UNRELATED to his self-vote, which only happened AFTER some people started to vote for him.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS: If you and KoC turn up town, will you admit to playing anti-town?

No.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS: If you and KoC turn up town, will you admit to playing anti-town?

Oh and BTW, can you like read the game and make some comments having to do with finding scum? Thanks.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I can admit that you and rofl may have gotten me a little tunneled.

That's for sure. I can understand how

I

could have gotten you tunneled. But Copter? Over Empking? Seriously?

This is another evasion on your part.

There is no evasion. I answer all your questions and you still say I'm evading. I've been posting like crazy. nobody has more meaningful content in this game than me. You are seriously tunneled my friend. Or you are scum. I'm trying to determine which one. Keep talking.

Also, my refusal to answer your questions was because the rest of the quote was important to the sentence.

You make excuses for yourself. You could have included the context yourself instead of refusing to asnwer. No? Why didn't you do that? Add the complete quote yourself, and answer Yos' and my questions. Why did you flatly refuse to answer? It was so easy for you to include the quote yourself.

This another giant evade. You go three paragraphs without coming even close to answering my questions.

I TOTALLY ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS. Some of these so-called questions were worded like the trap, 'when did you stop beating your wife.' And I still asnwered them.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

although I momentarily took leave of my senses yesterday until I baked my cheesecake

i love you

That cheesecake was amazing. Think Oreo cookie crumbs, with the perfect texture. Topped with a creamcheesy layer of Bailey's Irish Cream. With small rosettes of chocolate icing, not everywhere, just around the crown of the cheesecake. And, arranged in a circle, European chocolate covered thin wafers rising at an angle from the chocolate icing.

All was peace after the guests went for seconds, and thirds, even those that had claimed to not be fond of cheesecake.

I do agree that Lowell, Alvinz and Head Honcho are town. You and me of course.

I agree with Litral being scum. I love how he times his appearances and his lurking, it's all perfectly meted out. I know we've all been distracted but he's the one I'm most sure is scum but he IS difficult to corner when lurking.

KoC is the second scummiest. His behavior while I was close to the lynch was textbook scum. But then his insistence of being vanilla is throwing me off. A competent scum self-sacrificing on Day 1 should at least fakeclaim to out a real power role, and he didn't do that. Combined with this, he's not acting at all in a way to preserve his own life. Could his play simply be that bad??? Puzzling is ScumCougar and GnKoichi's hesitation on hopping on the KoC wagon.

Now GnKoichi is another story. I feel he's deliberately pushing me back in the spotlight, he's really eager for my lynch, he's really trying to trip me - but not the way an honest townie would. He's trying to trip me up in a scummy, misleading way. He's really rabid though, part of me feels it would he strange for a scumbag to push so bloody hard to lynch a rather worthless non-power role townie such as myself, unless he's in a rush for night, which I have seen happen. He has a double standard with KoC and me - so maybe he's trying to save his buddy. He's very dodgy and shifty overall. How does this relate to alignment? Definitely towards scum, but I'm not yet certain. He could still be town with blinders on.

Empking should definitely be looked at. He has not connected himself to anyone, no one has connected himself to him, and he's lurking in plain sight. He might be the biggest scumbag sitting by the sidelines. It's total, 100% scummy lurking.

StrangerCoug is also very aggressive, maybe too much to be scum. Again I don't see a scumbag be so rabid against a townie unless in a rush to go to night and thrilled to have found an easy target.

I'm not sure about Yosarian, that would depend on Vino. My beef against Yosarian is that he went after Vino so strongly that I was smelling bus'ing. Otherwise I'd say town - surprisingly, for the both of them. I think they're either both scum or both town.

I think a KoC lynch would reveal a lot of connections. Worse case scenario, we lose a vanilla townie. But now that I'm thinking aloud and trying to put things together, I think that the highest probability scum lynch might be Litral or Empking. But then again, if we lynch KoC, and he flips scum, we can bag the whole team.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Rogl: Why is PoS obvtown?

Why don't you contribute your own thoughts, lurkerscum? You're totally not town in this game.

I have a gift for you.

unvote, vote: Empking

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

There's so many connections I'm seeing... Penguins of the Serengeti and roflcopter, Knight of Cydonia acting similarly to Penguins of the Serengeti, and I remember Vino being involved in one (I think Litral)...

ARGH!

This seems to be misleading in a scummy sort of way, though KoC is parodying me, ScumCougar's calling it a 'connection' is a big stretch, unless ScumCougar has a credible explanation for it.

The two of you have created similar distractions by self-voting and voicing death wishes against yourselves. Self-voting is enough of a death wish as is.

The question is not whether KoC and my play contain similarities, the question is, why do you state that we are CONNECTED??? Similar play, especially when the 'emulator' is simply derisive, does not a connection make. I think you are being unreasonable now.

Unvote

This game is way too confusing.

No fooling. It's like everybody is crazy.

He may be saying this because KoC has painted ScumCougar into a corner - by acting like me, ScumCougar has to vote against KoC to be consistent, but he's not ready to vote his buddy as quickly as he was to vote me.

Since when did I have to vote Knight of Cydonia for consistency purposes?

By applying a double standard, you are giving the impression that you are pushing for the lynch of a player, while protecting the other. This suggests that KoC, if scum, might be your buddy.

Puzzling is ScumCougar and GnKoichi's hesitation on hopping on the KoC wagon.

Prove that us hesitating to vote Knight of Cydonia when we think someone is scummier than him is scummy.

This is not a reasonable request. It is not something that I can prove. Only your deaths, and the revelation of your alignments, can prove or disprove my SUSPICION.

StrangerCoug is also very aggressive, maybe too much to be scum. Again I don't see a scumbag be so rabid against a townie unless in a rush to go to night and thrilled to have found an easy target.

Now you're being inconsistent. You keep calling me ScumCougar, and even do so earlier in the post I'm quoting this from, yet here you question whether or not I'm scum. If you think I am rushing to get someone lynched, you must prove that I am doing so for your case on me to be valid.

Same as above. This is only provable by your deaths. I am not being inconsistent. I do try to take a step back, after I'm cooled down by cheesecake, to see other players points of you, and try to give my best possible guess as to their alignments.

ScumCougar, I think you are unreasonable, tunnel-visioning, and completely anti-town. You are not making any effort to read arguments, absord them, and give logical answers. You are simply rejecting everything that does not fit your tunnel-vision notions.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Serengeti, I am also getting the sense that you are being evasive, and it has nothing to do with how much you post, it has to do with the content of your posts. Proof is that I requested you engage me on a few simple questions a short time ago, and you completely ignored me. If you are town you ignored me because you think I am scummy and not worth talking to, but this frame of thinking is wrong, because it's more important to engage people's ideas, even if you do it on your own terms, than it is to ignore them and goodness knows you

just may

be wrong about your scum picks. If you are scum you ignored me because you had another strategy. Either way, ignoring all of the direct questions and posting your own content instead is hurting town.

Look, I might have missed something. I read that post and it's just yet another argument about mason voting each other, which I have explained ad nauseum. Repeat your questions in point form please, I have to go drive my son to his grandma's and I don't have time to read your long post to find the questions that are worth answering.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

@GnKoichi

There are multiple layers of double standards that are applicable to multiple pairs of players in your two posts above. Some of these player pairs include YOURSELF.

I have to go to a live concert that starts in 25 minutes. I'll explain more when I return.

I'm very worried about your recent change of heart, and your very quick vote on Yosarian, when more suitable alternatives abound.

I'll have to remember to check if you've expressed suspicion on Yosarian before.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I'm not asking Penguins of the Serengeti that one person is scummier than another. I'm asking her to prove actions as scummy

Same difference. Actions cannot be proven as scummy until after the player is dead and the alignment revealed. Nor can 'evidence that actions are scummy' can be provided. Scummy means inductive of suspicion. What I find most suspicious is to see players do what I've seen my scumbuddies do with regularity in other games. It's experience. It's what I observe over and over. I can't prove anything. One thing I do see often is scum pretending to be oblivious to common sense observations, in order to stick to their agenda. I do often see scum treating townies and buddies differently for the same actions. One thing I rarely see them do, is to be as hell-bent for lynching a particular townie as you are, especially one that is not a power role. So I explained what I found scummy about you, and what I felt was less scummy about you. Demanding this kind of burden of proof on this sort of statement is unreasonable.

You're not asking that of anyone else, for instance, you're not grilling KoC's poetic little feet. You're gently coaching him, now under threat of a vote, but you're not demanding that he proves things, explain himself, you're not truly challenging specific aspects of his behavior. Just generalities, like the one below:

...but if Knight of Cydonia doesn't stop making fluff posts and start scumhunting, I will seriously reconsider my vote.

And what about Empking? He doesn't have to stop making fluff posts and scum hunt?

I see glaring double standards.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

...and a crap vote on EmpKing's Alt to boot.

And why the defense of Empking? Is Empking even defensible?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

At the moment I see a scum team with Litral, Koichi, and Empking.

I could see KoC and SC being scum, too.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

@GnKoichi

You wrote the below on Jan 15.

That conversation was tied to my analysis that Coug was faking misreads in order to cover his scumminess.

Do you think Coug is still faking misreads, or faking other kinds of failure of understanding?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

@GnKoichi

I did re-check your posts and you have not previously expressed suspicion of Yos. Your sudden and recent vote for him was quite a shocker.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

First of all, you can't accuse her of "question dodging" when she's responding to a post where EmpKing asked Rotfl why he thinks Penguins is town. That doesn't make sense, since she can't and shouldn't answer a question, directed at someone else, about what he thinks about her.

And secondly; a crap vote on EmpKing? Really? In several of her recent posts, she's been pointing out the fairly low amount and quality of contributions he's made this game. Do you disagree with that? You're trying to make it sound like this is a vote she's given no reason for, and that's clearly not true.

I misinterpreted the post as yet another OMGUS attack as I felt the original question to be perfectly legitimate. It also wasn't clear to me that she was attacking Empking's Alt's minimal contributions, but rereading her post, it makes sense that that's what she's doing. The inconsistency argument against her (her calling me ScumCougar and then questioning my scumminess, especially in the same post) still stands, however, and I still think it's clear that Penguins of the Serengeti is a drama queen to say the least.

You mean, I should find the answer to the question in the above nonsencial gibberish? Maybe I've hit the bottle of Bailey's too hard, but whuuuut? My pointing out of Empking's abysmal performace is OMGUS??? Whauuut? And how is calling you "ScumCougar and then questioning [your] scumminess, especially in the same post" inconsistent??? Ugh??? Ever heard of getting mixed signals? And what does that have to do with Empking?

You're still not explaining why you're DEFENDING Empking.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

So Empking can get away with it because my vote wasn't OMGUS?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

No; it is perfectly acceptable to attack a player that isn't helping the town.

On a scale of 0-100, with 0 being completely unhelpful, and 100 being super helpful, how would you rate the following players?

Yosarian2
Empking
KoC
Litral

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Ah, OK. Even if I'm confused with what you choose to emphasize in your posts, and how you word things, at least your numbers match with my own evaluations, except for the small difference that I'd put Yosarian higher up on the scale.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I'd also give Empking a 10, actually. And I'd give KoC an irrational number, like, say,

i

, aka the square root of minus one.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

@ Copter

I get a mega town read off BSG.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

This is part of your style, PoS, that I've struggled to understand. Why aim that post at Rofl? Obviously we can all read it, and we all should be interested in scum hunting. So, why do you seem to care more about communicating with one player instead of the whole town team?

I trust him. And we both like to find scum from both ends - by finding scummy players, and by identifying the very townie players.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

gnkoichi, if you read a game played by penguins or her army of alts where she is scum, you'll see the same meta i see. she's town this time. and i'd be very willing to call her on it if she wasn't.

Hahaha I'm just trying to avoid being the top player here... I'm too old for this!

I do have my eye on Copter and look for signs of him being scum as I would for anyone else. I do think he's town here.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

The dagger's point is often veiled,
the bloodshed it's whetted steel entailed,
until, in form of lowly moth,
the drunkard finds a way through bloody cloth.

Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens
Bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens
Brown paper packages tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things

Cheer up.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

The tragedy of lactose intolerance.

A poet by a DGB Alt

Behind in answering my email and filing tax returns.
Got catching up to do with business accounting,
Threats of lawsuit from my whackjob competitor,
If only I could have Bailey's cheesecake everyday.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Argh, EBWOP, a poem, not a poet.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS: Why do you think I'm lurking?

Just off the top of my head, the fact that you're lurking comes to mind.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Sure. Do what I did. Go the bottom of the screen, and check out Empking and Empking's Alt combined input. Is that not lurking in plain sight? Your contribution to scum hunting or expression opinions is a big zero.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

And you're touchy about it too.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Rofl and PotS, any reasons why you started to post poems?

Contagion?

I very much doubt KoC is post-restricted.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

So wait. We are allowed to post PM's. Doesn't this mean that #14 was just confirmed as a townie if the other mason players have one that matches?

Interesting. Yes. I'll have to drop my suspicion on #14.

From my point of view, then, #14, Lowell and myself are the safest townies. That narrows down the field of scum masons to GnKoichi, OrangePenguins, and Yosarian.

At some point, Koichi voted OP, OP voted me, and Yosarian voted Lowell. It's interesting. The three 'less proven' masons, again, from my point of view of knowing my own alignments, all of them voted a fellow mason. My guess is that they had too many player names to remember.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I concur with the never mind, haha.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Interesting. Mine has the Shady Lady bolded, and is exactly like Yosarian's. Even the name 'Straight G' and 'gangsterlicious pimp.' We have the exact same name.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Good grief... someone unvote KoC already...

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

SCUM

Litral
Empking's Alt
GnKoichi

LEANING SCUM

orangepenguin
StrangerCoug

GENDER CONFUSED

Numberfourteen

LEANING TOWN

Head_Honcho
tyhess/KoC
MafiaSSK
alvinz95

TOWN

Lowell
Vino
Penguins of the Serengeti
Yosarian2
crywolf20084/BSG
roflcopter

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Well if he's telling the truth, he broke his PR and might be modkilled...

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I keep trying to catch up on this and it keeps getting a bunch of new pages, I'm working my way through this. Are we in an urgent state in any way currently or do I have time?

Empking and Litral are scum. We're going to have to lynch them sooner or later.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Yet, you seem to be completely unable to give quotes to back up your claims.

That's the beauty of non-contributing. You're not giving anyone quotes.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Interesting. Since my last posts, Rofl has declared me obviously scum (post #740), however I seem to have dropped off of PoS's most wanted list (compare posts #732 and #753). This may be the first time the two of you have openly disagreed. Would either of you care to discuss?

You seem more reasonable than you did earlier on. However, as I eliminate masons that are townier than you from my scum mason list, that means that by default there is a higher likelihood that you may be the scum mason. It's nothing you do. It's by default.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

BSG is blindingly town. It's like staring at the sun.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Serengeti, BSG has made some good informative posts and I generally like the content, but I think it remains to be seen whether his motivations are scum or town. Simply commenting about the game as he reads it does not make a person "blindingly town."

These are the posts of a player that truly tries to find scum. It's a bit rambling, but I get the very strong feeling that there is a genuine scum searching thought process behind it.

I sure don't get that feeling AT ALL from Empking.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

dear vino, stop trying to undermine penguins' (or anybody else's) town reads.

Yes, discrediting town reads is uber scummy. Because the last thing scum wants, is a whole big batch of townies that most people agree are townies. Remember how they only have one bullet per night. Also, it narrows the field down during the day, increasing the likelihood that they will be lynched. They especially loathe this. A good idea for the scum is to sow doubt about this. Like Vino is doing.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Let's get our act together and lynch one of Litral, Empking's Alt, or GnKoichi.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

RECOMMENDATION TO THE SCUM:

1. Bus
2. Bus hard

I'm so sure that there is one or more scum in that group of three players, that if we lynch a townie today, there will be hell to pay for any non-town confirmed player on my list that are on the townie lynch.

So I strongly recommend for the scumbags, that are in the know, to bus vigorously. Now it is the time to bus. So. Who is it going to be?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Why no Lowell? He's on the remaining list of possible scum masons, he participated in the same meaningless attack Litral did, and he's lurked since then.

He outed the masonry, a terrible move for a scum mason to make. He's not on my list.

Also, since I haven't posted anything since you said I had dropped off your radar a little bit, why am I suddenly back in your top three?

By process of elimination.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Why no Lowell? He's on the remaining list of possible scum masons, he participated in the same meaningless attack Litral did, and he's lurked since then.

He outed the masonry, a terrible move for a scum mason to make. He's not on my list.

Isn't this WIFOM? Or, at the least, debatable? It seems an odd reason to completely discount the reasons I gave.

I'm sorry. One cannot disregard every common sense or logical assumption by calling it WIFOM.

Also, since I haven't posted anything since you said I had dropped off your radar a little bit, why am I suddenly back in your top three?

By process of elimination.

Care to explain this?

Some masons are now confirmed in my view, after having seen their PMs.

I agree with everything she says... I couldn't have said it better.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Lauching Litral wagon.

unvote, vote: Litral

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Where the heck did DrippingGoofball come from!?

We *cough* share a computer.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

For the time being though, I'm actually going to put my

Vote: alvinz95

because I feel he hasn't contributed. He lurks, offers no original opinions, bandwagoned me, and every so often drops meta/unreasonable defenses of roflcopter.

Why him? You really think that's a productive vote given what the rest of us think?

Or are you following my instruction to bus, and bus HARD?

Your pushing for modkilling Yos is dinosaur-scale scummy.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

However, I'm less sure of this than I was of the Lowell attack for this reason: When I 'knew' that Lowell had a 50% chance of being the Scum Mason, it felt very safe to attack him rather than a non-Mason scummy player (better probability, obviously). Now that PoS is 1 of 3, instead of 1 of 2, the percentage is not as great as it was. Litral is still my top non-Mason target, so I would CONSIDER voting for him based on PoS's answers to my last questions, and Litral's own continued lurking.

What???

Show your full calculations, or you get no marks.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Given this, plus her complete refusal to accept an attack against a legitimate target (Lowell)

You're going to have to explain to everyone how having a contrarian view on who I feel is townie means that I'm scum.

and her strange changing of mind (see my last post) I feel very comfortable returning to this line of attack.

You're going to have to explain to the class why changing one's mind means one is scum. Come on, we're listening.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Vino has a point, especially after alvinz' response. I've updated my list.

SCUM

Litral
Empking's Alt
GnKoichi
alvinz95

LEANING SCUM

orangepenguin
StrangerCoug

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THIRTEEN AND FIFTEEN

Numberfourteen

LEANING TOWN

Head_Honcho
tyhess/KoC
MafiaSSK

TOWN

Lowell
Vino
Penguins of the Serengeti
Yosarian2
crywolf20084/BSG
roflcopter

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Koichi, your question gives me a headache, and is otherwise too boring to answer. You're just wasting my time.

But in your post #824, I smell a scum gambit.

I looked and looked at each space, each typo, each character. I see NO difference.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS, you asked me to explain. You can't ask that and then complain that my explanation is boring. Whether it held your attention or not, it's a legitimate line of accusations. Your response is a cop out. Answer.

I understand your explanation. Your question, however, is boring. I sometimes change my mind, and since I post a lot, I am not always 100% consistent. It's not a legitimate line of accusation in my case, unless there was some sinister twist to it, which you don't even suggest yourself.

I noticed that you haven't addressed my suggestion that you are gambitting scum over that PM stuff. Now, that's important.

@ Empking
You think I'm perfect. Therefore, your statement is fatally flawed. Also, for other reasons, already listed by Yos. Sounds like your team is panicking because I've got you all cornered.

Notes:
Empking started off with a vote against Vino.
Two players voted Empking right off the bat: numberfourteen, Litral (this could be bus'ing)
Empking switched to SC (bus'ing?)

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Yos - what is your opinion?

Mine is exactly as yours. The spaces, the missing spaces, the errors, there is not a single character out of place.

What is Koichi up to?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Inconsistency is scummy,

Oh. Is it, really? I mean, only the scum know who is scum and who is town from Day 1. Why would they be more inconsistent than townies? Sounds like an idea pulled out of one's hat.

...especially when you are untruthful about your reasons, which you were. You said something changed your mind, except the order of events makes that statement a lie.

Yeah, maybe I've posted 10 posts per page, and it's Day 1, and there are a lot of players, and I don't even know what you are referring to as a LIE.

Since then, you've done everything you can to evade having to defend that lie or to give a better reason for your inconsistency. Lies are scummy. Do you disagree?

When did I stop beating my wife?

As for the other side of the argument, that you disagreed with me in regards to Lowell, you seemed VERY secure in a town read on Lowell based on a single debatable point.

Yeah. Debatable according to those that debated it. I feel strongly about it, yes.

Why are you unwilling to defend your opinions?

Sorry for lurking, I'll try to post more, but you know, RL, LA...

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS may be barking up the wrong tree on this one. 598 and 667 are both very townish posts. 807 raises eyebrows, however. He writes "the" scum mason, as if he knows there's only one.

He may only know of one. Noted.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

blah blah blah

I decided I would humor you, but give specific quotes. Your list of post numbers is just too annoying. I have to figure out the posts, and I'm not going to start guessing what you're referring to. Note that I never bothered to actually do that tiresome exercise of trying to figure out exactly what you were getting at.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I should have my head examined.

I looked at Koichi's quote list and it's pretty clear I find him scummy all along. I was all prepped to explain where I changed my mind, but instead, I can't even figure out where I did, or if I did.

I'm going to go and make myself a herring sandwich with krill mayonnaise and ice water.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Also, since I haven't posted anything since you said I had dropped off your radar a little bit, why am I suddenly back in your top three?

By process of elimination.

Care to explain this?

Some masons are now confirmed in my view, after having seen their PMs.

The last post is a lie, because his change of mind clearly happened at a time when the PMs could not have been your reason.

Why the hell not? It WAS my reason. It was a totally valid reason. What are you talking about?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Yos, and PoS claim they have PMs that match #14's exactly. Lowell and OP have given no information about their PMs. I am inclined to think that either the mod made a mistake in GnKoichi's individual PM, or GnKoichi wants another anti-town mason to "confirm" that the other PMS are phony. If anybody confirmed GnKoichi's PM variation right now, barring any unforeseen variations to this scenario we would confirm a scum in my opinion, and I would immediately vote and lynch their ass into eternity.

This looks like the perfect plan.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

It was an invalid reason because after the role PMs were revealed, your opinion of me actually improved, which can be clearly seen in the quotes I posted. So, it is, at the very least, questionable that you would site the PMs as your reason for then thinking worse about me later. It's just plain scummy that you would avoid answering this question for as long as you have.

No - it was perfectly valid. Proven mason trumps posted content - by process of elimination.

All you've proven is that I've been perfectly consistent.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

That's why I'm keeping my vote on Litral. I could move it to Empking.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I'm already voting for Litral.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I don't see enough bus'ing in the Litral wagon.

unvote, vote: Empking

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

It'd help if Litral was around to defend himself.

I'm so disappointed you didn't vote for Empking...

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I'm not going to hop on a bandwagon just because you started it.

I would think that it would be an excellent reason. But then again, I may be biased.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I don't see enough bus'ing in the Litral wagon.

unvote, vote: Empking

Please give reasons with your vote.

Like I haven't given reasons before?

How about putting content in YOUR posts, Mr Righteous?

Empking is sooooo scum. Roflcopter, I think Litral is going to have to wait for Father Vig. I'm liking the Empking lynch more and more.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

What is the deadline anyway?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

The masons that answered Koichi's challenge have sworn that they have not noticed even the smallest discrepancy.

However, Koichi's PM is different.

That tells me that a least, HE is not like the rest of us.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

For someone who want to make the Litral wagon happen very recently, you're making it really hard to not vote you. The masons answers mean nothing, since Vino disarmed the gambit before most people could respond. They were influenced by him saying he would vote for anyone who said their PM was different, so now we can't take anything from it. This is such a weak push by you to continue to make me look bad. Seriously, you're grasping at straws to make me look like scum.

I said you are different, and you cannot deny that you are.

Also, I'm voting Empking.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

One interesting thing about Mafia is that any scum finding techniques are subject to statistical arbitrage. That is, the more people know about a scum-finding technique, the less effective it becomes, as the scum are more likely to mislead town by accusing townies of it, and less likely to actually perform it themselves.

Except for a few; such as bus'ing, and strategic lurking if in jeopardy.

I observe that Thadmiral's lurkage is in perfect continuity with Litral's.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Vino, that's exactly what you did with my PM Gambit! You just admitted to acting exactly how you think scum would act surrounding a scum hunt.

Huh? Please explain it so that a dummy like me can understand it.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Vino said that the more people who are aware of a scum hunting technique, the less effective it is. If he was aware of this, why would he disarm my scum hunting attempt surrounding the PM? Town might have done this by mistake, talking about the gambit in a way that inadvertently disarms it. Except Vino has proven that he thinks of the game in a way where he must have been aware that his actions were going to make people aware of the situation, and thus make it less effective. Only scum would do this knowingly.

Please explain again, this time, assuming that I have a single-digit IQ and that I'm drooling all over my keyboard.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

OK.

Now assume that I have an IQ in the NEGATIVE triple digits and only two brain cells, one that stops me from urinating all over my chair, and a second one that inhibits the first.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Can we get back to lynching Litral's replacement or Empking? Thank you.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

ThAdmiral, if you would have started to HUNT SCUM soon after your entry into the game, I would have been more willing to peg you as a townie. But the delays in reading, and the 'how can I possibly defend myself' hints that you are discouraged because you replaced into a scum player slot, that's in jeopardy.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

And vino makes as big a slip as I've seen.

I have to admit that the suspense is killing me.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Rofl, bringing up other games as the VERY FIRST THING you use to defend yourself is basically admitting that you have NOTHING to defend yourself with in this game.

What's wrong with that, and why is Empking still alive?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

It's a weak case, that's why she's not commenting on it.

'xactly.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

...And this is why I wanted to hammer PotS. Because she's actually ADMITTING her case is weak, and somehow getting away with it.

What are you talking about? I said that Koichi's case against Vino is weak; I tried to 'get it' but I don't. Though ThAdmiral seems to see it (though I'm unsure if the scumtell he speaks of is the same as the one Koichi believes he has caught)... what does this have to do with your eagerness to hammer me?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

admiral, no i'm not a dgb alt, i can only strive to be half as awesome as a dgb alt

<3

Now ThAdmiral's last post is scummy to the extreme in that there is hardly a word in it that fits what a townie might deduce. It goes against every gut call I have, thoughtful consideration, common sense, etc.

It's as if the town is on the right track, and someone just barged in to derail it in the opposite direction.

Hey ThAdmiral, which game did you play in New York with Toaster Strudel? It was a long one, too. I remember that you had weird opinions. Were you scum in that game?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

We need more people voting.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

This whole stringing out of his readthrough feels artificial to me.

I totally agree with this, and more.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Mod: The rules suggest three days before prods. What's the actual amount?

POTS: Obv Scum
Roflcopter: Good odds of being scum.
Litral: Quite likely scum

If Empking is lynched, and turns up scum, this list is a goldmine.

Because for sure he's put a scumbuddy on the list. I know it's not me, I doubt it's roflcopter, and LitrAdmiral looks like a darn good bet.

This reinforces my resolve that we should lynch one of Empking or LitrAdmiral today.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

This whole stringing out of his readthrough feels artificial to me.

I totally agree with this, and more.

What does this even mean?
Do you think I'm not reading through? Or do you think I've already read through and am pretending to do a summary slowly?

No, I think you are drawing conclusions that are contrary to those of a majority.

Is there an explanation for that?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

ThAd is still town.

PotS is even more scum.

Vino has done nothing to make me want to move my vote.

Explanations please.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

No.

I'm learning how to play this game from you, PotS. Am I getting better?

Not at all.

Parodying is not learning. Note that I do explain when asked.

You're also pretty scummy, in that you are declaring LitrAdmiral STILL town, and Vino and myself as scum, all three judgments going against the grain of current collective wisdom.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

...the second time you've acted like most people agree to something in order to make someone else look like an outsider.

And isn't your mason PM different from that of the other masons?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PotS, while I may be on the LitrAdmiral wagon, it isn't "collective wisdom" until a majority says so, so stop portraying it as such.

Not many people would declare LitrAdmiral

town

. That is definitely against collective wisdom.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Whoa. Good catch Townmiral.

unvote, vote: Rofl

Really. 'splain.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

...Unless ThAd and I are wrong...

Not so long ago, you thought LitrAdmiral was scummy. Things have really, really changed in your corner. You two are all over each other. It's even making roflcopter and me uncomfortable.

Hahahaha.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

... a long pattern of baseless accusations from both you and PotS.

Whoa. Some of my accusations may be gut, but good luck finding any that deserve to be called 'baseless.'

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I don't think you actually explained anything. You say the attack was BS, but gave no reason why. You also admitted that half of your reasons, the defending of ssk, was moot.

I hate it when players are berated for changing their minds when they have new evidence, or find a scummier player.

The players who aren't playing are making it impossible to lynch anyone, so we're going to go to deadline without a lynch.

No. That's you and your LitrAdmiral pal.

Now you have me thinking, maybe I should move my vote to LitrAdmiral instead of Empking. It's really tearing me apart. I am puzzled by the extreme change between Koichi and LitrAdmiral to a pre Valentine's Day lovefest, as there seems to be at best the flimsiest of rationalization for their mutual attraction. But what do I know about the workings of Cupid? I doubt that two scumpals would be all over each other like that, though. WIFOM I know, but I can't see Koichi and LitrAdmiral as buddies much. Both, however, are individually, and separately scummy. As is Empking.

I have to mull this over.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Weakest. Vote. Ever.
Sticking with ThAd over my period of absence. Lynch him while I'm gone, pretty please.

OK

unvote, vote: ThAdmiral

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

@ Yos

Is there anyting to infer from Koichi's behavior re: the Empking wagon?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Not really; he hasn't mentioned it the EmpKing wagon in a long time, I don't think (based on a quick skim of his posts; if I missed something, let me know), which, if Gn is scum, might mean Empking is his scumbuddy, or might mean Empking is town and he dosn't want to be associated with that wagon either.

I agree with this assessment.

It's just that, if Gn *is* scum, much of his recent behavior looks like him trying to intentionally and loudly link himself to ThAd (declaring him pro-town over and over again, using ThAd's reasonable question to Rofl as an excuse for an unreasonable vote, ect) which makes me think Gn and ThAd aren't scum together.

In doing so, he's also ignoring the Empking wagon by voting elsewhere. So I'm thinking that if Koichi is scum, then he's scum with Empking, and vice-versa.

On the basis of the above, I wouldn't be averse to sacrificing Empking to find out. He's scummy AND dispensable.

@ Vino: thanks for the count. I'm pretty sure copter is voting LitrAdmiral.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

That could be. Or it could be that he knows both major wagons are on townies, and so just wants to sit back and let the town kill each other without getting in the way or getting blood on his hands. Either one seems to fit his actions.

If that's true, then we should lynch Koichi...