Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Exe]

Sigh~
Hai Exe!

Vote: Exe

for Epic Randomness.

[Playing LoL has killed my fun.]

League of Legends? If so,

Vote: Tragedy

for being awesome.


Alright ladies n men, here is the plan.

We vote obviously on most townie, not most scummy.

Therefore I say everyone maintain a top scum or maybe top 3 scumlist and

regularly

repeat it so people know EXACTLY who you plan to execute.
Then, once we agree that a person has a good list of kills, we vote for that player. Basically, day work is easy. It's the night work that needs planning.

I completely disagree with the logic for 4 scum. I am expecting 3 scum, therefore 6 votes. They already have a HUGE advantage in that they know exactly who they are picking, so one of their members always has at least 6 votes.
So here's the town's way to circumvent this. And we HAVE TO DO THIS IN AGREEMENT.

SO HERE IS THE PLAN. I guarantee this is the best plan

We HAVE TO AGREE ON WHO TO GIVE THE NIGHTKILL TO. There IS NO ROOM FOR ARGUMENT ONCE NIGHT PHASE BEGINS.

So each day, BEFORE we choose the executioner, we HAVE to agree on a person to give the night kill to. That means whoever has the most people behind him MUST BE the person that all other townies vote.
So what does this mean? Any townie who chooses to go against the grain is fucking us in the ass and might as well join the scum. I dont CARE if you feel like the person being voted is mafia: putting your vote on someone else is NOT going to help.

The ONLY way to compete with scum is to agree on a player, for better or for worse. And if that means that we end up choosing a pro-town seeming scum: oh well, we came out even anyways. But if we are lucky enough to pick someone other than a scum, we should be able to guarantee that we control the kill.

NEXT: IF YOU DON'T FEEL CONFIDENT IN YOUR NIGHT KILL, JUST DON'T KILL.

Alright, there goes. Let's do this shit.

[Exe]

Whoa wait.

@Final Fires: Your "no lynch" plan is BAD.

Here's why. Say we no lynch. The only advantage of that, is that town can be more likely to get the kill.

Then what would be the best option for that townie with the kill? NO KILL.

See the paradox?

Scrap your plan. Give the execution to a townish player and rely on their judgement. LEARN TO TRUST.

[Exe]

Oh and slight

FoS: Umbrage

for the suggestion that there may be 5 scum. Slippery slope arguments are not a pro-town argument. There's playing it safe, and playing it like you're trying to seem cautious.

Oh and, very weak early execution choices:
1. Umbrage
2. FF

I'm going to update this list regularly.

[Exe]

@Charter: The idea of voting for the kills & the executioner crossed my mind and was shot down. Here's why: You're first making the assumption that the group is smarter than the individual, which often seems to be false. Secondly, we should be voting for the executioner based on their expected kills anyways, so I don't see much reason to re-emphasize who they should kill. See what I mean? I figure if we all agree on who makes the kill, we should also be inherently agreeing upon who they plan to kill.
Hence why I say we just list who we plan to kill.

[Exe]

Everyone in their next post should include 1 or 2 people who they plan to kill if they receive executioner. This game let's the scum hide behind focusing on who they think is pro-town rather than stating who is scum, so I want scum reads NOW. If you claim it's too early for a read, I

will

add you to the top of my kill list.

@Haschel: The point is, if the entire town doesn't agree on who to nominate in the night phase, we cripple ourselves. Agreeing on a bad candidate is better than not agreeing at all.

@FF: I guess I didn't really consider the possibility of night actions and prs, but I still am generally against no-kill cycles anyways. I get bored, what can I say.

I dont like Twisted Spoon. Here's why.

This makes sense since it can be hardest to get reads on players in the first day, so hedging the votes in one possible mafioso might be unwise.

I dislike this standpoint, pretty much always. In Frenzy mafia all 3 scum were discovered due to Day 1 connections and actions. Few games are any different. Scum make big slips usually in the first few pages: they are just better at hiding them at the start.

And:
[quote-"TS"]Here are 3 possible outcomes (I have speculated on roles)
Best case scenario
mafioso executed and mafioso nightkilled. No protection roles for mafia. Possible Investigative role reveals mafia scum for day 2 execution
fair scenario
mafioso nominated executioner and executes townie. Mafioso executioner is nightkilled due to killing townie. possible investigative role recieves an innocent verdict
bad scenario
townie is executed by townie executioner. Townie executioner is nightkilled. Executed townie had investigative or protective role :[[/quote]

I don't like the implication that a bad executioner should be night killed as punishment. You don't immediately suggest it, but the list of possibilities seems to exclude anything else really, and it's subtly suggesting that an executioner who fails to kill scum should be killed himself, which is a spiral that is going to fuck us in the ass if we let it dictate our actions.


@Vezo: No, that's not me.

In other news, something about Ant bothers me.

Alright so here's my kill list:

1. TS
2. Ant

[Exe]

Trying to get players to follow your ideas or else be put on your hit list is a mafia ruse.

Hardcore misrepresentation.

I am saying that should be able to have scum reads. That's not anti-town.

TS, you are pretty eager to point a finger at whoever you can find, aren't you? Yeah, my list is solid.

Also, regardless of how many situations are available to us, YOU POINTED OUT THREE. You emphasized a bad strategy. It's a subtle tactic.


@Strungover: Erm, no. Definitely not massclaim. And we are not going to no-lynch. That's as retarded as suggesting to no-lynch in a normal game. FFS WHAT IS THIS SHIT.

this is not sheeping and I am? seriously. I just said that my ideas were similar to Exe's. It's useful to know the thoughts and ideas of the other players otherwise they might as well not be players.

Regardless of what is and isn't sheeping, this IS mudslinging.

Ladies n Gents, vote Exe for office and I'll give you a TS on a plate. Kthxbye.

[Exe]

@Tragedy: We should play together. I <3 LoL.

@TS: You're trying way too hard to be nonconfrontational. I don't like it.

[Exe]

Charter is a decent 2nd choice if people don't vote for me. I am personally a fan of me being the executioner however. I mean, my name is even in the word

SV seems pretty pro-town as well.

TS still reads scum.

@FF: Answer to your question? Answer is no, I can't really elaborate on Ant-scum much. It's mostly gut, but I just don't sense enough town motivation.

[Exe]

The game just started yesterday.
lolol.

I WASTE NO TIME.

Ant, stop fighting destiny with your crappy wagons. Your first choice is Charter? Psh, helllz no. Also, who do you plan on electing?
Oh and, you seem pretty intent on defending TS there. Not the best choice on your part.

Coo'dawg, your post makes no sense. Who you find scummy, who you find townie? Gogogogo.

Waiting for the MIA people is meh. There's like 1 person, meaning at most one THIRD of the scumteam. I'd bet my dignity on the fact that at least 1 of the scum are active right now, and if you disagree you can die for it

[Exe]

If you're going to go after people for activity, go after Tragedy. She's done nothing.

Exe started off well, but that latest post by him is just pointless posturing. And by the way, we shouldn't just all vote Exe. Yes, I think he's a good choice, but we have plenty of time. Don't let the future of the game depend on page 3 reads.

I promise not to end the day as soon as I become executioner. In fact, it'd be much more interesting for me to read some players

after

an executioner has been chosen. I'll be looking forward to that.

And there is no such thing as "pointless posturing." Every post has a purpose.

Also, more finger pointing is noted. It's a form of chainsaw defense and I'm seriously not liking it.

[Exe]

Umbrage is flailing.
Cooldog doesn't understand the rules.
Ant hasn't got much to say.
Exe would like a vote-count.

[Exe]

Soooo Amrun doubts the Exe power. What a shame.

Also, after an entire post of not mentioning FF, she votes FF as her "only town read" ? Meh.

Long post to appear pro-town is meh. I don't really like a single one of your reads. Except maybe the one on tragedy, but I haven't seen tragedy play any other way yet.
Your reads are all so careful. Your top two scum read is the same as everyone else saying that Vezo fished, which frankly I don't see at all. It's been a crap argument since the first time it was made.
Your second highest read is a tip-toe. "TS is definitely scummy, don't worry, I don't wanna seem like I disagree, but we should still find SV scummy instead." Trying way too hard to please both sides.
Every other read is completely neutral. Cooldog is noobish but scummyish. TS is scummy but not worth a lynch. Exe was townie but now is confusing.
You don't take a single solid stand other than your first crappy case.

Tl;dr: I am disappoint. You haven't started off on a good foot.

In other news.

Rushing things increases the chance of error, and is scummy.

ROFL.
Errors...let's talk about errors...
When we make an error, we generally mean one thing and do/say another. Yes?
More often than not, an error made in a rush is due to a lack of inherent understanding. If you don't see where I am going with this yet, you will.
Inherent understanding is specifically in reference to intentions. If you don't

feel

your intentions, you are more likely to go against them erroneously.
In other words, if I truly wanted to give my life to save people, I wouldn't hesitate to throw myself in front of a bus for them. However, if I only

claimed

to want to save people, in a pinch I might erroneously not save the person.
SEE WHERE I AM GOING?
Basically: SCUM MAKE ERRORS. TOWN SHOULD KNOW WTF THEY WANT AND THEREFORE SHOULD BE NATURALLY PRO-TOWN IN THEIR INTENTIONS.
ERGO WE SHOULD RUSH THINGS SO SCUM MAKE ERRORS.

God, how many times do I have to scream about this in a thread before I get a meta? No really though.


Ohhh aaaaand, I giggle a little every time someone can't understand wtf I'm doing

Reads:
WTF:
Exe

Teehee. I just can't wait for this D1 to get all fired up. Yall don't even know what's coming bwahahahahahah.


P-Edit: I should address the Vezo thing. His "fishing" was barely so. If THAT is damning, but TS's multiple bad moves aren't, then I don't know what is.

P-P-Edit: WHY AM I NOT THE EXECUTIONER YET GAWD.

P-P-P-Edit: TS IS SO SCUMMY. LOL THE CONNECTIONS TO UMBRAGE. ALSO YOUR QUOTE OF UMBRAGE & ME IS IRONIC CONSIDERING THIS POST.

P-P-P-P-Edit: FUCK VEZO, STOP SHOWING THEM WE R SCUMZ TOGETHER GAWD.

[Exe]

Very disturbing indeed to give one player so much power so early.

The only ones who should fear my power are the scum.

[Exe]

TS LOGICAL FALLACY.

NO SHIT TOWN MAKE ERRORS.

BUT TOWN ERRORS AREN'T "OOPS I THOUGHT I WAS SCUM FOR A SEC"

WHEREAS SCUM ERRORS ARE "OOPS I REVEALED I WAS SCUM."

IT'S CALLED SCUMSLIPS. SCUM DO THEM. TOWN DON'T.

RUSH RUSH RUSH.

It's surely scum who would most want to have the power of execution.

ROFL. Craplogic is crap.

[Exe]

This game. Holy crap.

It's only just beginning!!

[Exe]

Execution is therefore a far more dangerous weapon in the hands of mafia.

This has absolutely nothing to do with who WANTS the power more. So basically, more craplogic from you.

It mostly seems intimidation fuel for those that won't blindly follow you.

And if it is? Intimidation is not a scumtell. It's more of a badass-tell.

P-Edit:

Amrun, i didn't say your second was TS?

[Exe]

Reading is tech.

[Exe]

5 pages in, oooh, so much content to go off of, right?

Yes. Lot's of content. Have you been reading? This is such a bad defense.

You went from calmly presenting plans to flailing about because one or two people don't implicitly trust you

Calmy presenting plans is BORING.

Also, did you even READ my first post? I caps lawked half that shit. That was NOT calm.

acting like a five year old.

Really? That's the best you can come up with? Lawl.

[Exe]

Oh and before I get a "YES YOU DID SAY MY SECOND SUSPECT WAS TS," Lemme quote and do some reading comprehension for yah.

You posted this:

Shattered View Point is my #2. He's pushing the TS wagon so hard ... And so, so badly. All of his points are terrible stretches. Speculation is not rolefishing, but asking scummy fishquestions like vezo did is.

There are reasonable reasons to suspect TS,

but

SV's reasons are scummy.

I posted this:

Your second highest read is a tip-toe. "

TS is definitely scummy

, don't worry, I don't wanna seem like I disagree, but

we should still find SV scummy instead.

" Trying way too hard to please both sides.

See how they match up?

But sure, I'm misrepping

[Exe]

Okay, fine, but don't call me out for supposedly lacking reading comprehension when you're barely intelligible in the entire last page.

I am many things. Aggressive. Easily bored. Entertaining. Annoying. Insane.
Unintelligible is not one of them. I have made myself very clear.

TS is still scummy.
Amrun is scummy by the scumtell of trying to please too many people. Fencesitting, some would say.

[Exe]

The logic of Exe:
New ideas = Appearing original = scum
Same ideas = Sheeping = Scum

If he was actually

reading

the thread, he'd realize that I wasn't the one who accused you of trying to appear original.

[Exe]

So Haschel, who do you think should die?

[Exe]

@Exe: Your last post is a perfect example of a post with confusing syntax. Is the post addressed to me? If so, WHY is it addressed to me and why didn't you indicate that? If it's not, then why did you refer to TS as "he" and to me as "you" when I wasn't even involved? That post makes very little sense and the only reason I can somewhat decipher it is because it is so short. When you post walls entirely full of such confusion, it's unintelligible.

Isn't it obvious who wasn't reading the thread? I mean, really, come on. You're just reaching now. The context makes my post perfectly understandable.

[Exe]

Amrun, hypothesize with me for a moment. Say we elect Exe RIGHT NOW THISVERYMINUTE and, as we're discussing who to execute, Exe makes a slip and outs himself as obvscum?

Yes, we can elect too soon. And I won't have any of it.

Also, I'd be happy to give scum the executioner role if they slip up with it.

Can everyone post a top Suspect in a visible manner? I wanna see how things are shaping up.

[Exe]

Amrun, hypothesize with me for a moment. Say we elect Exe RIGHT NOW THISVERYMINUTE and, as we're discussing who to execute, Exe makes a slip and outs himself as obvscum?

Yes, we can elect too soon. And I won't have any of it.

Also, I'd be happy to give scum the executioner role if they slip up with it.

Can everyone post a top Suspect in a visible manner? I wanna see how things are shaping up.

[Exe]

@ Exe: Either shut up or get out. You've slipped from the best player in the game to the worst.

LOL real mature. I think I'll choose neither, mmk?

Hmm...who wants to die? TS? Amrun? Which to choose...

In other news,

@Amrun: Frankly, I don't really care what you plan to do with your career. It doesn't change the fact that context is a valuable asset, and you and I BOTH knew that TS was incorrectly accusing me of something. So really, you knew

exactly

what I was talking about...so why were you so eager to argue about the meaning?

@TS: I'd say you have about 3 posts to show me why you should live.

[Exe]

@ HC: Once we choose an executioner, it's like a lynch, all talking stops. We have to choose who we want to kill before we vote for our executioner.

I still don't want to vote Exe. He is the worst possible player we could choose to be an executioner because he is the most likely to take matters into his own hands and kill someone other than who we agreed on. Scum or town, he's a liability. I can easily see him being town, killing a townie that we did not agree on, and then getting killed himself.

NO IT'S NOT.

READ THE FREAKING RULES.

Once the executioner KILLS SOMEONE all talking stops.

God.

[Exe]

Tragedy...why do I feel like it's Frenzy mafia all over again? Are you scum again? Hmm. That post was a whole lot of questions, but really a whole lot of nothing...

I still really feel the TS scum vibe.

Hmmm.

[Exe]

Amrun, I called you fishy from your very first post. Don't act like you just suddenly became a suspect of mine.

[Exe]

No, you are not my top contender. I am still a big fan of TS scum.

[Exe]

It also bothers me that exe already softclaimed vanilla townie without any pressure to do so.

Regardless of whether or not it was ACTUALLY a soft-claim, you aren't helping the case by repeating this OVER AND OVER.

@charter: I never insinuated that five pages of content isn't enough to go on. I gave a humongous list of reads... How is that nothing?

5 pages in, oooh, so much content to go off of, right?

Does not compute.

Bullying is not a scumtell either yo. It's how we townies get shit done.

[Exe]

arrogant, rude, aggressive.

I'm aggressive, and arguably arrogant, but I haven't been rude to anyone.

It is hard to get a good read on an aggressive player.

It's also hard for scum to combat an aggressive player. But yeah, sorry you can't read me

Please compare him with vezok, and tell me which is the better kill. I'm not saying I want a vezok kill, I'm saying that he's a better kill than Twisty.

The second sentence here is complete and total ass-covering. Why are you so afraid of taking a stance people won't like!?

For five pages of game play, I think my reads were more than adequate.

Your whole post says a lot about how you

weren't

suggesting that 5 pages wasn't enough, and yet you still finish it off with a qualifier that repeats, once again, that you're doing the best you can with only 5 pages of play. The point is, you're still implying that 5 pages is not enough to go on.

It's probably more because me and Haschel are awesome. I haven't played with Exe before, but he seems pretty awesome too. There is nothing worse in mafia than days that drag on. Today is going to drag on. I can tell it already. We have the double duty of spending forever electing someone before we kill someone. It's going to take twice as long and leave twice the amount of muck to sift through on later days.

^^See this guy? He's awesome. He get's to join the newly formed Awesome Alliance of Wonder for this game, with Haschel invited too. Together, we will pull this through.
Also, Charter, I feel you on the "dragging out" stuff.
I think I'm going to shorten my "3 posts to prove [TS] protown" to 1 post. TS, please tell me something that will make me consider keeping you alive.

Though, Idk, Umbrage is pretty shifty too.

Hmm. Umbrage or TS? I think my final decision is between the two of them. I'm pretty sure one or both of them are scum.

[Exe]

basically because he's mad that I won't vote for him as executioner.

Mmhmm. Keep telling yourself that

[Exe]

Once again, you fail to comprehend my post or are purposefully misrepping. I have plenty of reads and plenty to go off, but reads based on 5-10 pages of play are simply not as reliable as reads based on 20 pages of play. However, if you don't get reads in the first pages and keep following them through for 20 pages, it's all useless anyway.

And you actually have been rude several times.

And suddenly I drop off your suspect list after you realize no one is going to bite on your spite FoS?

Your comments are so predictably pointless. You nitpick on every freaking word.

The point is, you admit that 5 is not as much to go off of as 20...therefore meaning it is not quite enough to go off of. Regardless of how many times you repeat it, I still say that the general point is true: you believe 5 pages is less than desirable. Do you disagree? Because you repeatedly seem to suggest as much, even if you are trying not to.

I have to have another at the second part.

And for the third, can you please keep up with what the heck is going on? I've told you about 30 times that I think your reads are shit and not very protown. How many fucking times do I have to say it?
Doesn't mean I'm necessarily killing you today. Christ. Pay attention


@Umbrage: Oh well, get ova it. I have a few bets that this day is gonna end excitingly, so you better figure out who to trust. :O

[Exe]

I notice there's a Exe clique forming, which consists of charter, Haschel, vezok, and to some extent SV. While I am unsure of Exe being scum, some of the players I just mentioned have got to be scum. The main reason this is a bad thing is how Exe's scum and town reads are determined by whether or not a player agrees with him. So it's currently unlikely that Exe will turn against a member of his clique, which in turn makes it unlikely that one of the clique will attack the other. In short, we have a group of players who treat each other as confirmed town with no good reasoning. If you are one of the players I mentioned and you are town, I urge you to take an objective look at this game, and the players in it. This clique is the town's biggest obstacle at the moment.

I urge you to stop challenging others to take an objective look at the game when you yourself have not done so. My reads are not based on who agrees or disagrees with me, and your attempt to spin things as so shows a subjective view of events.

[Exe]

Saying so and so's reads aren't pro-town means nothing if you don't explain it, and your attempts at explanation failed miserably imho.

Still, you're right in that I should have learned not to take you seriously by now.

I'll go back to "nitpicking" people who DO take this game seriously and actually WANT to find scum.

For part 1, in a game where all I have to do is execute people, I see no reason to explain why I find your reads fishy, past the explanation that I already provided.

For part 2, cool beans, good attitude

And for part 3, don't be pretentious. I am quite pleased with how my efforts have helped in scumhunting so far, whereas I believe that your argument over how exactly you meant to describe 5 pages worth of content really didn't get us anywhere.

[Exe]

@SV: You really want Vezo dead?

[Exe]

To answer SO's question, how do you know there are any PRs? I can't believe everyone missed this.

And people say they can't see TS rolefishing

@SV: You want Amrun to be the executioner, but he won't kill either one of your scum suspects. Kinda counter-intuitive.

Notice that Exe doesn't really say anything with this post. Two sentences, the first says I'm not objective, which is a completely subjective statement, and I am curious to see if and how Exe attempts to prove that. The second is basically "NO I DIDNT". Let's see, you think charter and HC are town, they've been sheeping you for most of the game. You think Amrun, TS, and myself are scummy, we're the only ones that think you might not be town. Care to present a counter-argument? Or are you content with empty mudslinging and bullshit?

Notice that Umbrage doesn't really say anything with this post. :O
Umbrage, if "You're not objective," is a subjective sentence, then how can YOU be objective while calling others out for not being objective?
Secondly, correlation does not imply causation. I've stated WHY Amrun and TS both make me worried. Admittedly, my suspicions on you I've mostly kept to myself. However, the fact remains that I've posted actual suspicions on TS AND Amrun. Your argument is basically that I'm lying, however you have no evidence towards this other than the fact that you disagree with me AND I find you suspicious, however this isn't a proof of anything.


Now, I think it's time to switch things up a bit here.
TwistedSpoon, you've done nothing to reduce my suspicions of you, and I have to trust my instincts on this one.
To everyone who wants to know why I am so aggressive: I have a daykill. This will end the day once I use it, however I've been told that we can talk until the mod posts the death scene. I'd like to see a flip and the results of a night phase, so here goes.

Kill: TwistedSpoon

So @TS: Any last words?

[Exe]

You've got time to decide now.

Amrun's & FF's responses seem pretty pro-town. Interesting.
Umbrage, your vengeance kill request on me is really anti-town. Intentionally killing a townie? Looks like I was right for suspecting you.
I still want to hear what TS has to say for himself. Hopefully he'll post before the mod does.

[Exe]

Hmm. Good posting by TS actually. Interesting.
BAAAAAD posting by Umbrage.
No claiming please.



Does no one have faith in the old Exe? *smirk*

Good news:

TS isn't dying.

And look, we got some good reactions.
My thoughts on the events:
Amrun's post was actually a good response. +Townie points. I think I am right in giving you the benefit of the doubt. I've been considering it for awhile.
Ant's response was fairly protown.
Umbrage's was bad. Very bad. He made a bad suggestion to vengekill me, and is now trying to find out ways to justify it.

Don't worry boys and girls, the fun has only just begun.

[Exe]

p-edit: So the daykill was a gambit?

I wouldn't call it a gambit as much of a test. If you can understand what I'm implying.

[Exe]

Does no one have faith in the old Exe? *smirk*

I thought something might have been up due to the fact that you contradicted yourself from your first post
I just didn't know how crazy you actually were. ahahaha

But seriously though...what is all this about killing claimed VTs in games? If anything, it should be a case by case thing.

It's Umbrage's shoddy attempt to cover up her shoddy attempt at getting me killed.

[Exe]

Umbrage's little "I'm so right" show is hilarious.
Of course scum have accurate reads. You know who are town and who aren't

Also Umbrage, if you are really town, you'll do well to lose the attitude and stop throwing a hissy fit. You'd be much better off actually scumhunting than crying about whether or not you're right and I'm wrong.

Oh and Vezo is so obv-town it hurts. The case on him is still crap, even though he stupidly claimed.

[Exe]

Does someone hear that bus go flying by overhead?

While bussing is possible, I don't think even I would be crazy enough to go as far as killing a scumbuddy with a daykill. Maybe.

[Exe]

A few things:

@FF: I meant to say that Amrun's & Ant's responses [to my daykill] were protown. I keep getting you and him mixed up in my head, and I'm not sure why.

@Tragedy: Maybe you should explain to these players that reasoning and logic aren't exactly my thing.

@Umbrage: Cry all you want about me not explaining myself. It's not a good tell, and it particularly stopped being a good tell when I stopped doing in in every game I've been in since I started Frenzy Mafia. You can check me on this. Frenzy mafia, townie, major hand in lynching all three scum, never a reasoned thought on paper during the thread. Gorrad's Fictional Characters mafia, about the same time I started Frenzy mafia, I stopped posting legitimate reasoning and started playing aggressive-mode-extreme.

So basically, Umbrage, you can continue to natter on about my lack of explanations, but it's not really working for you and in the end you'll just have to get used to it

And so far, I'd even say my strategy is working pretty well. You've pretty much damned yourself Ms. Umbrage-scum

I'm quite interested as to how you got the impression that I want him dead when I've been defending him from the start.

Um...scum ALWAYS want the players they defend to die. It's one of the best ways to appear pro-town. Claiming you've been defending TS does not address the issue at all. The fact remains that you instantly used my kill as an excuse to get me lynched, and backpedaled HARD to justify it again once people pointed out that I was probably town.

[Exe]

Oh and, so you know I'm not ignoring you:

@FF
[quote="Specifically, what has vez done that makes you so confident he's town?[/quote]

I just don't see any hidden agendas in his posts. His intentions seem pro-town to me.

[Exe]

D'oh, messed up my quote tags.

[Exe]

Oh and a last note before I go for awhile.

@TS: If you really are town, I hope you'll take this to heart. If you are under attack, try to focus more on finding scum than defending yourself. The best way to prove yourself town is to be pro-town, and being pro-town means scumhunting. Just a tip.

[Exe]

@Exe: not explaining your reads will never, ever be pro-town.

I'm not looking to be educated. You can keep repeating this theory, but frankly, it won't change my playstyle so there's really no point.

And I mean, it's not my job to force everyone else's reads to be correct. It's your job to make your reads, and my job to make my reads. My only job is to find scum, and this is the way I find works best. So, get over it

[Exe]

So if you want to play that way, feel free, but don't be mad if it contributes to a scumtell later on. That's the way it goes.

Oh, I wouldn't be mad

And to your question, scum generally act one of two ways, with some differences based on personality. Generally I'd call them "w.e screw this," and "OMGWTF." Basically, he'd have completely given up and offered no further help/reads, or he'd start freaking out and really trying to hammer a major read (often in OMGUS) with his dying breath.

And it is not your job to just make reads. It is your job to make reads and convince us that your reads are accurate.

No, that's really not my job. Sorry.

Actually, it is a good tell, I've used it in the past with great success.

meta is usually worthless.

You know what's

really

amusing? How hypocritical you are. Especially when you're sooooo full of yourself
Really though, anyone else see the contradiction there? Lol

As I said, I've faced a player like you before, and he flipped scum.

Good to know you have in 1 situation lynched someone that acted like me who in turn flipped scum. What irrefutable evidence.

Oh and this one is fun too.

Actually, it's been my position all along that if Exe really had a daykill that would not mean he's confirmed town.

Liar liar, pants on fire:

Even if he's town, he's now used his power and is basically a confirmed VT, not someone we want alive. Exe: congrats, you win the worst player award for this game.

I wouldn't be the "worst player" if I had been scum. You

were

operating under the assumption that I was town.
Guess what this is? It's BULLSHIT. OH LOOK I USED YOUR WORD.

HEY GAIZ, UMBRAGE HAS NOW BACK PEDALED LIKE SIXTY TIMES SINCE I MADE MY FAKE KILL. DOES ANYONE HONESTLY FIND HER TOWN STILL?

[Exe]

@Exe: And how did TS's reactions differ, in your opinion?

Also, I don't think your last attack on Umbrage is entirely valid. He said "even IF he's town," which means he was operating under the assumption that you are scum, not that you are town, but that he isn't entirely sold either way.

To the first, he remained pretty calm and made a few last reads. Basically, he was helpful, which scum rarely are when they know they are dying.

Also, you missed the point in my attack on Umbrage. Despite the word "if," she specifically told me I was the worst player, meaning that subconsciously she thought I was a bad town. Her instincts told her that I was town, even though she tried to make it seem like it was only an if. Do you see what I am getting at here? You

are

a fan of nuance, so I feel like you should understand this.

[Exe]

@ Exe: Not even trying to convince other people that you are town or that certain people are scum is practically the definition of bad play. Are you trying to get a reputation as some sort of a cowboy? Because the only reputation you're getting is that of a VI.

Your insults are such an effective scumhunting strategy Your arrogance knows know bounds.
But no, you're right, I bow down to your unbelievably superior knowledge of mafiascum. Oh great Umbrage, let me learn from your infinite wisdom.
LOL. Yeah, right.

Please, stop wasting the town's time. This isn't a newbie game, you aren't an IC, and as far as I can tell, nothing you say about what I should or shouldn't be doing even matters.
So here's a tip: START SCUMHUNTING. Because I honestly couldn't care less whether you think I am a VI.

Worst = anti-town
Worst =/= bad townie

Not seeing how you could make that mistake. I'd say it's pretty clear what I meant.

Bullshit alert, bullshit alert!

You're telling me that in your anger, you gave me an award for being a good scum?
Bull, fucking, shit.
You were ANGRY. You were RAGING. And let's stop bullshitting, shall we? People rage at BAD TOWNIES. NO ONE RAGES AT EFFECTIVE SCUM.

If you thought I was scum AND thought I was anti-town, YOU WOULDN'T CRITICIZE ME, YOU WOULD CONGRATULATE ME.


In other news, I'm entertained that TS is closer to understanding the logic of my playstyle than Umbrage and Amrun will ever be. And he's the alleged "newb" lol. Bravo to you, sir.


@Vezo: Shut up about the fucking role. If you really are a PR, you need to just stop completely. If you're bluffing, or worse, if I'm wrong and you're scum making shit up, you're gonna die. So either way, you have incentive to stop.


@Umbrage, regarding Vezo: Ok, that post was seriously pants-on-head silly. But it wasn't scummy. Unless you believe Vezo is in the business of big elaborate theatrics when he is scum, which I've never seen him do. This shouldn't be rocket science.

[Exe]

OH you find me scummy? I thought you said I was a VI? Yay cognitive dissonance!

It's ok, I understand. You can't decide how better to get me lynched. Calling me scum or calling me a VI is a tough choice

[Exe]

EBWOP: Lynched, killed, you know what I mean.

[Exe]

Being a VI does not exclude you from being scum.

Nice backpedaling, but VI is a term that is used on townies. Hence why sometimes scum FAKE being a VI because it makes them look townie.

I think you're trying to build a meta for yourself.

Oh really?

Maybe you should actually read the games I play. Your reasoning is basically shit when you consider the fact that I do this all the time. This is a strategy.

But no, that would involve you actually being town, and since you're scum you'll just keep trying to come up with more reasons to back up your steadily failing argument.

The amount of backpedaling you do is astounding.

[Exe]

I've never heard that before. As I understand it, a VI is any player that plays badly and refuses to improve

Ironic how you don't understand the term you are using, and yet you treat me like I should bow down to your mafia expertise.

That just proves my theory. You don't create a meta with one game.

No, it proves my theory. Because it's the strategy with which I hunt scum. That's why I've done it in my TOWN GAMES.

And if you want me to stop 'backpedaling', maybe you should stop putting words in my mouth.

ROFL. Yes, "putting words in your mouth" AKA analyzing your posts.

[Exe]

The issue with Umbrage, is if he actually believed his argument about me making a Meta, then her whole scum case would fall apart.
Basically, if you honestly think I am building a meta, then the ONLY thing you know for sure is that I might be either town OR scum based on my playstyle.
If meta is all WIFOM then it's WIFOM in BOTH directions.
But your only real scumtell on me is my strategy, which AS YOU SAID, proves NOTHING. If it's my universal meta, it's a NULL TELL.
So get a real case.

Meta is a bad argument and a bad defense. Stop using it.

Are you even reading Umbrage's posts? For fucks sake, Umbrage goes from calling me deliberately anti-town, to retarded, to trying to build a meta, to whatever he can find.
He is REACHING AT STRAWS. DO YOU NOT FREAKING SEE IT?

You thinking being

obv anti-town

is being "good scum" is absolutely baffling, Exe.

Right because being obviously anti-town is definitely what we were talking about. /sarcasm.
I'm pretty sure that killing a townie and not leaving town to decide who to vote for at night AND causing most of the town to think I was a VT would be A PRETTY FUCKING GOOD SCUM STRAT.

I do think I understand your playstyle, I just think it's crap.

GOOD. I'M SO GLAD. YOU'VE NOW STATED YOUR OPINION, SO MOVE THE FUCK ON.

God. What the fuck was the point of that post Amrun? You haven't commented on a single post Umbrage has made in the past few hours, even though they are laughably bad. Even if you think I am anti-town, you cannot possibly in your right mind miss the fact that Umbrage is flailing to try to find some argument that sticks to me.

Everyone should get over the fact that they hate my strategy. If you think it makes me scum, then fucking kill me. If not, then stop fucking talking about it, and start hunting for scum.

/rant

P-Edit: Yes, SV, happily.

[Exe]

Wow, you're so unbelievably pro-town. You deserve an award.

[Exe]

And, for the record, I'm not the one who refuses to focus on anything other than my playstyle.

[Exe]

Also no one is that sure of someone else's alignment but scum or masons. Stop buddying so hard.

So why in the world would Vezok act the way he is if he was

actually

scum? You yourself said he doesn't seem like an idiot, so I fail to see why someone you don't think is an idiot would blatantly buddy with another player as scum.

Think outside the box...or the wiki. Vezok is being silly, but he's being town-silly.

[Exe]

This game needs more votecounts.

P-Edit:

@Umbrage: Bravo, you get the award for biggest fan of wiki-words.
Welcome to Mafia. Nearly everything is WIFOM.
You know your argument about me being scum and being anti-town in other games to mask the fact that I'm scum? That's WIFOM too.

But here's an educational lesson: there's this other thing called

analysis

that let's us come to conclusions...some people like to call it WIFOM.

[Exe]

Vezo shouldn't claim unless we plan to kill him. That's the simple fact.
In the event that we plan to kill him at night, he should claim. However, if not, we shouldn't, as then we leave some WIFOM for scum if they do gain control of the kill.

Also, I don't know if we've mentioned it yet, but whoever gets the night kill should no-kill unless they have information that guarantees their target will be scum. This should hopefully be obvious to the town.

Oh and, I won't promise that as Executioner I will definitely go with the majority pick. I won't kill someone that the majority is against, don't get me wrong, but I also won't kill one of my strongest town-reads.
I may not always be right on my scum-reads, but I am always pretty confident in my town reads, and it usually pays off.

[Exe]

Nobody elect Exe executioner.

Psh, no matter. I'll just make myself executioner!
lol

[Exe]

Haschel, what are your scum reads again?

[Exe]

Pledge?

He wants you to promise to ignore your reads and execute based on the consensus.

[Exe]

How would him revealing his role give scum any more WIFOM than them knowing he has a PR? And what's necessarily bad about scum having WIFOM? (The latter is more a newb a question than anything.)

I think you have my stance backwards.

I think that Vezo should

not

reveal his role if we don't plan to kill him. The reason for this is that then scum will have to decide for sure if Vezo is telling the truth or if he is just bluffing, which forces them to make a harder decision. If we force Vezo to claim, but don't plan to kill him, then we risk the chance that scum get the kill AND know exactly whether or not they need to kill Vezo.
And, to your second part, if you understand this part now, I think you'll see that I meant that scum having WIFOM is a good thing.

A curiosity question, Amrun is that a second account?

[Exe]

Exe: You are operating under the assumption that vezok is definitely town. Even though I think vezok is scum, I still run through "if he's actually a townie" scenarios in my head...

Do you mean, is this an alt? No. It's my one and only. Why?

I like to know people's actual experience on the site. I don't judge skill on experience, I think that's crap, but I do find it useful to look for trends in opinions & the like based on overall experience.

Regarding Vezok, the fact still remains that if we

aren't

killing him, he shouldn't claim. Town or scum is irrelevant.
Let's say he

is

scum. If he fake claims, the best case scenario is we out someone else to only get our first scum. Worst case scenario, no one counter claims and it causes unnecessary WIFOM for us and then we still don't kill him.
So if we

aren't

already planning on killing him, we really don't gain anything from forcing him to claim prematurely.
As you can see, I am not ignoring the possibility that he is scum. I just really don't think there's any good argument for making him claim unless we plan to kill him.
I mean, really, if we are just making people randomly claim, we could ask anyone to claim...really I don't understand how there is any argument for forcing a claim out of someone who isn't going to die...

[Exe]

Hypothetically, say we elect a scum executioner, and the majority of the town wants to kill one of their scumbuddies.

Right, well hypotheticals are all well and good, but the fact is that I know I'm town so I can't really see much incentive for me to want to go against my own reads.

I'm not saying I expect you to make me the executioner anyways, so why does it matter? If we come to that situation, you can deal with it however you feel necessary, but the fact remains that until that point it really doesn't matter what anyone pledges.
I mean, let's be honest, a scum is going to just pledge like the rest of us anyways. And it's just words. I can pledge that I will offer my vote and my entire will to Amrun, but it doesn't mean I'll actually do it.

[Exe]

Exe, saying this (the bolded part) is totally null. Everyone in this game (if they have the proper mental faculties to actually play mafia) is going to say that they're town, and they know it.

Well of course it's null as an argument for my towniness, but that's not how I was using it. It doesn't matter what anyone else says, the point is that if I am town, which I know I am, then I won't see incentive for pledging. I'm not suggesting that this makes me town, I'm only explaining why I won't pledge exactly, which shouldn't really matter to anyone else.

Umbrage, your case on Charter is complete crap, but your case on SV actually has merit. And yet charter is your number 1. Why do you insist on tunneling him?

[Exe]

And you know what, screw it.

Unvote. Vote: Amrun

[Exe]

SV wouldn't be a terrible kill. I'd support that.
I strongly encourage you to leave Vezo alive. I've played with him as scum, and frankly he can't fake an attitude very well. I honestly think he's just pulling rookie mistakes here.
Plus, if he really is scum, my experience with Vezo says he'll really slip up eventually anyways.

[Exe]

Oh & Amrun, if we give you the night kill, will you No-Kill at night?

[Exe]

I'm fine with killing SV over vezok if that's what everyone wants.

IGUESS I would do a no-kill overnight if everyone actually wanted that, but I personally think it's a bad idea. Like really bad.

Do you not realize that killing at night means we rely on only ONE person's opinion, which DOESN'T take the first kill's flip into account?

I mean, we could talk about who to kill at night, but that leaves us making a decision before we know the flip from the day kill, which is why I think that we shouldn't kill at night.

But here's the kicker. This is why we SHOULD NOT night kill.

If we allow kills at night, then I feel that we leave the mafia a chance to say "well I thought this person was scum."
If we force them to no-kill, they don't get any options to have their way AND we guarantee that any kills at night are made by scum.

[Exe]

Fail reading comprehension SV.

Ok, let's think this one through.

Let's imagine that all

townies

agree to no-kill at night.
Then someone dies at night.
Now let's use our logic. Who must have taken control of the kill that night?
Correct answer: scum had enough votes to take control of the kill.

This isn't rocket science.

@Amrun: You're still missing the key point of my argument, as I just restated here.
We can discuss all we want for the day kill, but for Night we still have a

lot

of uncertainty, and I would rather we guarantee that the only people that submit a kill are the scum (again, IF THEY GET CONTROL OF IT, since apparently SV can't understand that).

Amrun, please tell me your opinion on this part of my argument.

[Exe]

If we force them to no-kill, they don't get any options to have their way AND we guarantee that any kills at night are made by scum.

but how do we know who does the killing? I thought that the killer was secret and decided by the private votes of the players?
Thus, It could be hard to accuse a player since we don't for certain know who voted for who and who made the nightkill.

But your logic does make good sense and gives us a nice edge on the mafioso.
I support no-nightkill. Whether it's practical, I'm unsure.

Missed your post.

Townies have zero incentive to lie about who they voted for at night. We should be able to compare that to whoever claims they received the kill option in order to be at least somewhat informed about what happened at night.

[Exe]

@Amrun

Let me propose two scenarios.

Say we allow the night executioner to kill.
If scum get the kill, they only need to justify why they thought the kill was a good scum-suspect. This will result in them getting away with it OR us catching them due to a bad justification.
If town get the kill and mis-kill, (which is the more likely scenario), then they also need to justify why they thought the kill was a good suspect. This will result in either a bad kill where we forgive the townie, OR we then mis-kill that person because they failed to justify their target in our eyes.
If town get the kill and kill scum, bravo a scum is dead.

Now say the night executioner is told to no-kill.
If scum get the kill, they either no kill, or they have to justify why they completely went against everything we said. If they chose to kill AND we know who the person is, that's basically a scum caught.
If a town gets the kill, they will not kill and we will have not lost nor gained anything.

As you can see, this almost guarantees that we at least won't lose any townies at night without catching a scum. Really the only advantage to letting them night kill is the small chance we give the power to a townie AND they kill scum successfully, but I'd rather not bet my money on that.

I'm telling you, a no-night-kill policy WILL be more advantageous.
It will be MUCH harder for a scum to explain why they killed against our rules, rather than to explain why they did exactly what they were expected to do, but were wrong about their target.
And in a best case scenario, we rob the scum of their only balancing power in a game of mafia.

[Exe]

Hmm. Yeah, I guess I missed the whole deviating from the flips. You make a fair point.

We'll just have to look at a "What if" both sides scenario.

[Exe]

@Umbrage: Umm...how in the world is it BAD if the scum no-kill?

[Exe]

Actually, now that I think of it, assuming SO can't be replaced for the lack of activity, we could use the night kill like a Vig and get rid of him. If he's scum, yay, if not, we get rid of a serious lurker.

[Exe]

Good-to-Reasonable Day kills:

1. Umbrage
2. Tragedy/SV

Good Night Kills:

1. SO
2. Cooldog if he still hasn't been replaced yet.
3. Potentially other people depending on the person we decide to day-kill.

[Exe]

Strungover was lurkey long before he was V/LA. Frankly, I don't think V/LA excuses him.

And no, I wouldn't kill SO during the day, that'd be like lynching a lurker.
However, look in any game with a vig, you'll learn that lurker's are vig-bait. And frankly, I say the best use of the Night kill is for vig purposes.

Also, this is my current theory, and I'm pretty confident in it actually.
I'm fairly certain the scum are:
Umbrage
&
1 of the lurker/active lurkers (Tragedy, SO, Cooldog) I'd bet SO or Cooldog. Tragedy isn't playing quite like the game we played when she was scum. I wish Cooldog had stayed, because in my experience he's a pretty obvious read for me. Oh well.
&
1 of my less confident town reads (Ant, Haschel, FF, Amrun, SV) Of this group, my money is on SV.

I'd be willing to bet that there's only 1 scum in each of those groups.

If I am wrong about Umbrage, then I'd say there are prob two scum in the second group. But frankly, I don't think I'm wrong about that.

In regards to a vote thingy,

Please Kill: Umbrage

I'm sticking by this read.

[Exe]

I'm seriously bothered by Ant's defense and counter-accusation of Charter. It's pretty much rubbish.

Your first accusation is

All very unfriendly and nothing but attacking people and not helping town discussion.

Unfriendly? That's a scumtell? Besides the fact that I don't see charter as "unfriendly" at all...
And how in the world is attack people NOT helpful. You're basically accusing him of scumhunting while saying that it's not helpful...

Also, the deliberate attempt to tie Charter to Umbrage is a serious "NO YOU," especially since Ant never mentions Umbrage as a suspect. I mean, why would you immediately jump to "Charter is bussing Umbrage," when you've never called Umbrage scum...?

There is just so much wrong with that post.

The icing on the cake are these two quotes:

Charter's case on me is so dumb/BS/mudslinging/missrep/false information (take your pick) that I found it be very slanderous.

And

Most of what he as said about me really fits himself than me.

For the first, you really just sound like you're trying to throw words at charter and hope they stick. Not really the sound of a townie with a confident scum read.
And the second is yet another "NO YOU."


Ant has seriously just shot up my scum-meter. Those posts are just

really

off.

[Exe]

Exe looks like he's helping out his buddy charter with a chainsaw on Ant.

If you're really town, my advice to you in this situation is to assume that my attack on Ant is unrelated to Charter until we see a flip. It's Tar's basic logic, and IMHO it works.
I mean, yeah I find charter town, but those Ant posts are just really bad.

@ Exe: You've said vezokpiraka normally plays like this. Is that the only reason you find him town?

I've known Vezo to be a teensy bit of a VI, and in my experience make a lot of slip-ups. A lot of the case on Vezo relies on the argument that he's being subtle, subterfugical (word I just made up) and basically having ulterior motives to his comments. So basically, I don't see Vezo trying to mask a rolefish, I see him asking a question without understanding the consequences.
Another example, I also don't see him claiming to live 1 more night in order to trick the town as a scum PR or something like that.
It's just too WIFOM for Vezo, he tends to be straightforward and try to stay out of everyone's hair as scum. These are the mistakes that I expect out of a town-vezo.

[Exe]

I'm not trying to defend myself. Make a proper case against me and I'll defend myself.

LOL

Do you know how many time's I've heard a townie tell another person that the case on them isn't a proper case? None.
Want to know the answer for how many times scum claim there isn't a proper case on them. *trollface*

Umbrage, Charter has a proper case on you, but if you want to just monkey around then I guess there's no reason to keep you alive, is there?

[Exe]

LOL @ SO.

So what did we just learn? That SO CAN post "content" when under pressure.

What does that mean? Your one-line, not paying attention stuff at the start of the game was an ACT.

What does that mean? You got some' splainin to dooooooo.

Also:

Exe has a lot of connections with Vezo and FF. They happen to be my top three scum suspects so I don't think that's a cawinkydink.

You have so far failed at showing my "connections" with FF. You point out that I have a FOURTH of the posts in thread, and yet your "connections" are TWO POSTS!?
If you are going to accuse me of something, you should try to actually make it logical.

Also, no shit I have "connections" with Vezo. I called him town.
Which is TOTALLY exactly what I'd do as his scumbuddy. I would blatantly, repeatedly, call him town.
Also, your "connection" with FF involves me calling out Umbrage for mentioning FIVE SCUM. This is COMPLETELY different than FF mentioning

the number of scum

. Hence the reason I didn't call FF out on doing something totally different than Umbrage...lol

Other silly things SO did:
-Accuse me of being scummy for coming up with a pro-town plan (ROFL.)
-Contradict himself by telling Ant his "we should discuss our plan" post was goodposting.
-Calls every instance of FF calling Vezo scummy "distancing."
-Makes a bunch of other stupid comments.

[Exe]

it is scummy to get everyone to agree on one person to NK. It creates way to much WIFOM.

LOL

LOL

LOL

Either lynch this guy, or put him in a newbie game.

[Exe]

it is scummy to get everyone to agree on one person to NK. It creates way to much WIFOM.

LOL

LOL

LOL

Either lynch this guy, or put him in a newbie game.

Prove this wrong. Why and how is what I said wrong.

Read my first fucking post.

If we DON'T agree on the Night kill, YOU ARE GIVING IT TO THE SCUM.

[Exe]

One comment:

Telling people not to vote for the person the town decides to elect as the NK'r is REALLY SCUMMY

I never said this. I have been telling people ALL FUCKING GAME that town needs to AGREE on the nigh killer.

And again:

Exe was trying to get people to not vote for a NK'r.

False.

FF your chainsaw defense of Exe is noted also. A vezo lynch?

Thank you for your MafiaWiki copy-pasta, now let's see if you actually have any fucking clue what chainsaw defense is.
Oh wait, you don't.
K, moving on.


SO needs to die today or tonight, I am stating this as fact.

Why? Because he is one of two things. Either 1) He is scum. or 2) he is so UNBELIEVABLY pants-on-head newb that he SHOULD NOT BE IN A NON-NEWBIE GAME.
This is causing SO MUCH distraction, it has to end. He misreps, he takes things ridiculously out of context, and he contradicts himself over and over again. The only people who would do all of that is a scum OR someone who can't honestly think successfully.
And I have my money on the "scum" side of the argument.

Amrun, kill SO today, we give you the night kill, and then just don't use it. How does that sound?

[Exe]

@Mod: If you don't decide to use your night-kill executioner abilities, do you still keep it for the next night or is it just given to someone else?

You do not have to night-kill if you don't want to. However you give up your chance at killing if you choose to not kill. No one else will get a chance to kill that night and you won't get to kill the next night either unless you get a majority of votes again.

Which frankly ISN'T A BAD THING.

In NORMAL MAFIA, we have 1 lynch, and scum have 1 kill. In this, we can have ONLY LYNCHES.

See how that's WAY BETTER than our normal opportunities?

And yet people want to give a night kill with not much discussion because somehow not doing so would be hurting the town

[Exe]

LOL Has Umbrage even READ SO's posts?

"Amrun has been attacking SO, despite the fact that their kill targets are the same."

LOL

Because, you know, agreeing on a scum suspect means that the other person MUST BE TOWN.
That's exactly why buddying exists
Fail.

Shattered Viewpoint/vezokpiraka/Exe: Notice how SV and vezok jump on the SO wagon, riding on the coattails of the bigger players. Also note how Exe never found the other two scummy in this game.

Except that I

have

said that SV is scummy. So your fail-reading wins you some serious points.

Oh Also

An SO wagon will draw scum.

You said that BEFORE SO FUCKING POSTED ANYTHING.

So you're telling me you were psychic and

knew

that you'd find SO townie once he finally posted?

BULL FUCKING SHIT.

You never even ONCE commented on SO's big post, meaning you either A) don't want to admit that it's complete scum-shit and are trying to save a buddy. Or B) Never fucking read it, in which case either you or SO are scum and the other probably isn't.

Does anyone else notice how Umbrage's reads are completely fucking obvious?

He ISN'T thinking about what's actually going on, he's just posting literally the most OBVIOUS reads he can come up with.
Example:

SO listed all three of them on his scum list, there's some more lovely motivation to jump on his wagon.

You're right, the three of us are a scum team and ALL FUCKING THREE OF US JUST OMGUS'D THE TOWNIE WHO CALLED US THE TOP 3 SCUM.
That's TOTALLY what I would do as scum...

if I was completely fucking retarded.

Umbrage is either scum or clueless. Either way, he and SO both need to die so this fucking nonsense can end.

[Exe]

Tee hee. Typical Exe. Completely ignore everything I say and attribute ridiculous statements to me. Show me where I said SO was town. Because I actually said I had a gut read of scum on him.

So you think that SO is scum, but you also think that a wagon on him will bring out the scum? LOL nice contradiction.

1) Accuse someone.

2) Accusee defends.

3) Respond only to the weakest part of the defense while ignoring all valid points/questions.

That is scummy.

QFT.
There is actually a name for this. It's called Strawmanning.

@Exe do you just ignore everything people say and :rolleyes or :lolz: at it?

Do you actually

read

the comments I put before/after the roll eyes? Because I didn't ignore anything, and your fucking misrep is getting on my nerves.


This game is ridiculous. If Umbrage and SO are town, I will seriously kill myself just for having to deal with this shit.

[Exe]

a wagon on an absent player will draw out the scum.

What did I tell you? An SO wagon will draw scum.

The contradiction here alone should be enough to kill Umbrage based on.

And I will not respond to every single argument made against me, mainly because there is no point in responding.

There you are, Umbrage has decided he's going to cry in a corner and pout. There's no point in letting this anti-town behavior continue, so let's end this nonsense.

[Exe]

Nightkill? I think we've already decided not to have one and rely on executions. Exe had a good argument for this.

Can you link to Exe's argument for this? I don't understand how you'd get the scum to not use their night votes and just get a free night kill. I'm sure this has been discussed at length and I just haven't read it yet, but after reading the setup it seems like we should definitely decide together on night votes since we very likely outnumber scum votes. Here's my reasoning:

All the scum will pick one of their number to vote for tonight, but that one cannot vote for themselves. So if there are 3 mafia, the most one of the mafia members can get is 4 votes (since they each get 2 and only 2 of the 3 would be able to vote for that mafia member.) If there are 4 mafia, the most the voted for mafia can get is 6 votes. I find it unlikely there would be more than 4 with a 13 player setup, so there's a very good chance the most the mafia can give to themselves tonight is 6 votes.

Whoever makes the daykill may hit a townie which leaves us with 12 players. This gives us 8 town votes and we would outnumber the mafia. If we do not have a consensus on who we want killed, the mafia make their 6 votes and get a night kill.

Can someone also brief me on where we're at in the game? Are we just waiting until March 9 for Amrun to decide who to execute? And deciding who to nightkill in the meantime?

Please just read my first post. You've (like many of the other players in this game) misunderstood what's actually being suggested .

We ARE going to agree on a night EXECUTIONER. That has

always

been the plan.

What I suggested is that whoever GETS that kill should NOT use it and should let the night go without a kill.

Understand?

[Exe]

I've backed up all those possible scum teams with reasoning and logic as to why they are likely scum teams.

No, you haven't. You backed all of them up with possible speculation, which could easily be made for ANY combination of players in the game. Dare me to do it, and I will come up with two other scum-team possibilities that you didn't, and my "reasoning and logic" will be JUST as good as yours...in other words, it'l be crap.

Speculation is what you did. That's a fact. Gtfo.

And going after easy targets is anti-town.

LOLOLOLOLOL

This is basically the definition of YOUR play. Vezo makes a blatantly obvious "role-fish" so you attack him for that. Vezo defends me, so we MUST be scum. These are the EASIEST FUCKING TARGETS in the entire game.

But you're right, going after easy targets is anti-town, making you very very anti-town.

He was posting before now, enough for me to get a feel for the kind of player he is.

And it apparently doesn't bother you that the person he was when he was posting before is absolutely nothing like the person who posted then?
But let's go with your logic.

Here are the entirety of SO's posts BEFORE he came back:

vote exe
obv scum

unvote
vote strungover

I still think not exicuting anyone today would be better... also is a mass claim a bad idea here? It helps tell us who not to kill. I know it's not an open set up so... idk.

unvote
vote exe
this guy seems legit.

If we don't kill any one today it gives our PRs a better idea of who's who.

2 RVS votes showing he has no fucking clue what's going on, a REALLY anti-town suggestion, a defense of ME, and then another shitty suggestion.
But you're right, you knew he was pretty much pro-town...or wait no you had a gut scum read on him...or wait,

YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE

.

I clearly hit a nerve, this sudden attack on me stinks of paranoia. I'm leaning towards an FF/Amrun/Exe scum team even more now.

LOL.
CAN YOU SAY OMGUS?
Umbrage either is scum or has no clue how to play mafia because this shit is seriously retarded.

[Exe]

@ Exe: Just because you can't or won't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. And your eloquent use of the word 'retarded' has finally earned you the honour of having your post reported. I won't bother responding to your post in any more detail because it's little more than ad hominem attacks, posturing, and other garbage. Tell me when you're ready to cut the crap and play this game.

LOL.

You reported my post for using the word "retarded"? LOLWHAT?

I didn't even call anyone retarded.

Your attempt to avoid addressing the case against you by continuing to be obstinate is noted. If you don't die today, I guarantee you will die tomorrow.

[Exe]

What I don't understand is why you think it's a good idea to not use the nightkill. It's like having a vig and choosing not to use it. And if someone still dies how can you be sure scum didn't somehow win the vote? Will you automatically suspect the person the town agreed to give the nightkill to?

But that's not what you didn't understand...
You specifically asked why we weren't agreeing on a person to elect as the night killer. Your original post made no question regarding whether or not we should actually use the night kill, so this post really seems like an attempt at backpedaling. Did you actually mean "What I still don't understand" ?

Also, you're right it's like choosing not to vig...which is not an anti-town thing to do when your vig doesn't have a good target. Look at Gorrad's Fictional Character's mafia, in which I was the vig. I failed to hit scum until the very end of the game, and probably would've been better off not shooting.

[Exe]

@Setael: I figured as much. With that in mind, you aren't backpedaling.

So in response to

that

question, see my second part about Vigs not shooting.

Not to mention, a LOT generally happens around the time of a lynch, and I don't think we will be able to have enough information discussed by the night phase to choose a solid night execution. I would prefer we have time to consider every kill as a group rather than trusting the night kill to 1 person's judgement (even with the bit of discussion we could do during the day phase).

[Exe]

Regarding the entire Night Kill discussion: Regardless of how much we discuss it now, we are still choosing TWO kills based on purely D1 reads.

Also, using the night kill is NOT the same as our day kill. It is IMPOSSIBLE to discuss as much, even pre-emptively, as we could figure out during the day. It WILL NOT BE AS INFORMED OF A KILL. I guarantee you that.

So if you guys want to make a less-informed kill, then by all means go for the night kill. But that is what you are choosing.

I don't care how you spin it, the night kill will not be able to take into account all of the discussion that happens just before a person dies, which is often the most important discussion.

[Exe]

Also.

It essentially gives us 2 days with no night.

Key-word ESSENTIALLY.
My plan gives us 2 days with no night either...except we also get to discuss what happened in Day 1

[Exe]

Actually, if we use the plan of "if X is scum, lynch Y, if X is town, lynch Z", it will be more informed.

More informed than what? You seem to need an Amrun grammar lesson about antecedents, because "more informed" means pretty much nothing in this sentence.

More informed than a kill that was discussed at length? Wrong.
No amount of D1 discussion will take into account the last few posts that happen before the kill.

This is a fact

Example using arbitrary numbers:
Say at post 39 we are discussing the night kill. We could decide by post 40, but then what if there was information on post 40 that we needed to discuss? Post 40 will then be discussed, and then we'll have posts 41 and 42 that need to be analyzed.
It's an endless cycle. We

CANNOT

have discussed everything.

No matter what

the person who makes the night kill will have to analyze those last few posts ALONE.

[Exe]

@Amrun: What question? I missed it.

@Umbrage: Clearly you didn't read my post so I'm just not responding to that. I already explained myself 3 times.

[Exe]

Oh, you mean regarding the whole 5 pages of content stuff?

Things change drastically after the first flip. It's not that we don't have enough information now, it's that the flip and the events surrounding the flip will greatly change the way that information is interpreted.

[Exe]

I just don't see how accounting for flips in our choices doesn't avoid this.

Did you not see the part where I pointed out that a lot happens around a flip?
It really doesn't matter what I think at this point, since most of the town is for using your kill tonight. I'm just saying that I'm against it.


Oh, another thing to realize, is that people's reactions to a flip are HUGELY important in determining scum...but we won't get to see anyone's reactions to the first flip...just saying.

[Exe]

I am not totally against no NK for tonight only, as I've said. You wanted no NK for every single night.

Well we haven't gotten to other nights, so I'd say don't worry about them. Things may change to convince us to either night kill every night, or make it obvious that we shouldn't ever, so there's no real point in worrying about future nights yet.

SO is back to suggesting a no-kill during the day. Lulz.

[Exe]

Amrun can you elect to no kill today?

It's not misrep.

There's no reason to ask about him no-killing unless you WANT him to.
If you AREN'T suggesting a no kill, then why the fuck are you asking?

But your misrep accusation makes me laugh. Hard.

[Exe]

IGMEO everyone who supported the idea of lynching or night killing lurkers. Besides hoping to hit scum, our kills need to give us as much information as possible. Scum would be thrilled if we take out lurkers and thereby get almost no information for the next day.

Ok this is just silly. You've been around Mafiascum for more than 3 years now, so I

know

that you realize that Lurkers are solid choices for vigs. And that's essentially what our night kill is. So this stance really doesn't make any sense coming from you...

That's because I knew someone had to stay objective.

LOL you're so subjective it hurts. It's hilarious how highly you think of yourself.

[Exe]

Umbrage, you want something akin to objectivity?

Stop the conspiracy theory nonsense. This isn't 1984, this is a game of mafia. Here we use

logic

.

You know what is the best logic for mafia? Occam's Razor. And Occam's razor says go for your scum suspects, not some random theory that relies on a shitton of assumptions. Your scumhunting is going seriously down the tube, not that it was ever particularly great.

Also, you're pretty much as subjective as every other person in the game, seeing as we are all individuals who are, for the most part, incapable of being objective.
And judging by your petty rage, you're one of the especially

subjective

people, not objective people.

Proposition:

Everyone post their execute choice at the top of their posts so we can get an actual vote going and Amrun knows who to go with.

[Exe]

Vote to Kill: Umbrage

I like how Umbrage claims that no one is scumhunting anymore. Because, you know, it wasn't scumhunting that led us all to believe Umbrage is scum.

Umbrage is just soooooo completely obvtown that CLEARLY because we find him scum, we AREN'T scumhunting.

Lol.

I really am not seeing anything more than noise coming from umbrage's posts at this point.

I shouldn't have to tell you fuckers that it is not pro-town behaviour. If it wasn't for dumb shits like you we would be able to tell who's acting scummy.

Don't insult us. Period. It got you force replaced out of one game already, don't make it a habit.

[Exe]

Also, Umbrage your case on Charter is crap. I see that he made 2 posts where he did the whole "umbrage should die, goodbye," and they were RECENTLY.

He spent the entire beginning of the game posting CONTENT while you made the ridiculous accusation of active-lurking the entire time.

[Exe]

That's not really the

only

reason that Umbrage should die. You've missed like 4 pages of content that is on the side of Umbrage dying.

[Exe]

Again, lies. I replaced out of that game voluntarily because the mod was an ass. MORE LIES FROM EXE YAY!!!

ROFL I'll tell the mod you said that. We'll see how long you are even allowed on mafiascum.

You know what? Kill me. Go on, kill the town's last clearheaded player. Just don't pretend it was somehow my fault.

Good. Die.
And while you're at it, get off your fucking high horse. You've done nothing pro-town this game. Your death IS your own fucking fault. Get over it.

Oh and.

Grow the fuck up.



In other news, if in some crazy scenario Amrun doesn't do what we ask, I agree to night elect Charter. However, I doubt that will happen.

Amrun: Please do your kill on Umbrage. We will elect you tonight, and I would prefer that you No Kill, however in the event that you choose not to no kill, you should kill SO if Umbrage is Scum, and SV if Umbrage is Town.

Let's get this day over with.

[Exe]

@Umbrage: Also, for the record, before you even respond I have to say.
Regardless of what happened in that other game, you still fucking insulted your fellow players in this game, and that's wrong.
Your arrogance and your personal attacks have no place in this game.

[Exe]

Because you tried to end the day so quickly, like I said. There's no protown reason to do that.

Another wiki player much?
Go read Frenzy mafia or Dram's Fate mafia and then come back with a real case.

This day should have ended a week ago. And I'm saying this because it'd be pro-town to not waste this much time on noise.

Also, Setael, your attempt to distract the town from deciding on the night kill is noted.

Setael is probscum if Umbrage is scum.

[Exe]

One more thing: viewtopic.php?p=2707762#p2707762

Also, anyone here can read past that post and see what

really

happened in that game. So nice try.

Umbrage's complete 180 on attitude is pretty much out of nowhere, so I don't think we'll be seeing a town-flip. I'm pretty sure we've got scum. But if not, those last few reads are useful. Perhaps.

[Exe]

Why shouldn't Amrun be elected again? I don't see any good reason not to.

[Exe]

Another busy day, and limited internet access. A full post tomorrow.

[Exe]

Odd how the wagons switched so suddenly in my favor. Just sayin.

Everyone should analyze that very carefully tomorrow after I'm dead and flip Town.

It's really not surprising. Umbrage had 6 votes, and 3 other candidates had votes...when the choice was dichotomized between you and Umbrage, that would inevitably mean that the most likely outcome was 6 votes Umbrage, 7 for you.

Plus, you aren't a bad execution in any case so it really doesn't matter. I still think Umbrage should die.

I'll give my opinion on the outcomes of SV's flip once I do a quick re-read of him.

[Exe]

Proposed back up plan:
Amrun submits a no lynch. We vote her to submit the night kill. She executes at night either SV or umbrage, whoever town has agreed on. If by chance amrun goes rogue and executes someone rather than submitting a no lynch, we all vote FF at night and he kills amrun for the night execution. (doesn't have to be ff, but we need to pick someone).

Why did no one call out how retarded this plan was?

Also: if we kill SV and he flips scum, I logically should be the one to have the NK, I've been pushing on him most of the game.

Lol, no.

Amrun should be the night killer until we have reason to believe that we've made the wrong decision.

Still rereading SV to find most likely scum buddies if he flips scum.
If he flips town, Setael should probably die. He is the one who proposed the dichotomy of SV vs Umbrage kill, and so if SV flips town I'd bet big bucks that Setael & Umbrage are partners.

[Exe]

Ok so a few notable things. Please read them all:

1.)

I see a subtle SV-Haschel connection. If SV flips scum, Haschel needs to be looked at.

2.)

Also, if SV flips scum,

I'd rather we no-kill.

I want time to see post-mortem interactions, as none of SV's connections are damning enough to merit a guaranteed second kill.

3.)

I've remembered why no-killing at night is so much better. Setting up lynches ALWAYS favors the scum. Why? Because the scum know

exactly

what the person will flip, and so while the town muddles around deciding the most likely connections, the scum have a HUGE advantage in that they can suggest guaranteed mislynches. Therefore,

this whole "if he flips town, if he flips scum" strategy is inherently anti-town, in the same way that lining up lynches is also anti-town

. However, until you people realize this, I will continue to offer my best suggestions on who should and shouldn't be killed.

4.)

SO has just blatantly contradicted himself and it needs to be addressed. In his first big catch up post, he called SV out as one of the likely scum. However, a few posts ago he claims that he doesn't think SV is scum. Even though NO WHERE in his posts had he ever said that SV was appearing more town.

5.)

I didn't want to end on an even number.

[Exe]

I've been pushing SV most of this game, if he's scum, I'm town.

Not true at all. You've also been pushing me, and Vezo, and Charter. Since I'm pretty sure the three of us are town, it'd be completely reasonable as scum to push for lynches of 3 townies and 1 scumbuddy for the EXACT reason that you can semi-confirm yourself if the scumbuddy slips.

And with how determined you are to point out that SV-scum confirms you town, that only makes me believe you less. A townie knows that being right about 1 scum does NOT confirm them town.

Oh, and add on the fact that you know that Charter and Vezo lynches weren't popular enough to go through, AND that SV is a wagon that opposes YOUR wagon...I mean, there's about a million reasons why scum would do EXACTLY what you're doing.

So as far as I am concerned, if SV flips scum, it doesn't say a whole lot about your alignment. It's not like SV-scum implies Umbrage-scum, but it also definitely doesn't leave you "dripping with townishness."

[Exe]

You really think I'm distancing him? If that's the case, then why would I vote to kill him when vezok already had two votes on him?

I'm not saying you're guaranteed to be scum if SV is scum. I'm not

accusing

you of distancing, I am just saying that it's a completely reasonable strategy and it'd be foolish to think that an SV-scum flip would confirm you town.

But your post here is another example of your favorite strategy. Strawman.
You're avoiding the

entire

point by arguing against one aspect of my post.
You're right in pointing out that the weakest part of my argument is that Vezo

might

have been a viable target for you.
However, that doesn't change the fact that as a whole, my argument still points out that it's not accurate to say you're suddenly super pro-town if SV flips scum, because there are MANY ways in which that could easily be false.

You can keep arguing with me about this, but the thing is that you'd only be arguing for the sake of proving yourself town. Which is NOT something a townie needs to do.
Attempting to prove me wrong will do nothing to help you scumhunt, so you should ignore it and stop worrying about whether or not you are "dripping with towniness," because it's not pro-town to do so in the least.

[Exe]

Oh and, just to prove you wrong once again, I won Of Rogues & Curses Mafia,

as scum

because Zorblag (my scumbuddy) spent literally the entire beginning of the game pushing lynches on me & Xvart (our other scumbuddy).

So don't tell me that pushing the lynch of a scum, ESPECIALLY a single scum somehow makes you instantly town.

[Exe]

No, I attacked the foundation of your argument. That's not a strawman.

No, you attacked ONE FACET of my argument. You did NOT attack the "foundation" of my argument. That IS strawman.

Look, if SV's scum, either you think I'm distancing SV, or I'm town. It's got to be one or the other, so what do you THINK?

No. Again, no.
First of all, I THINK that we should see what SV flips first.
Second of all, I THINK that regardless of if SV is scum, you may or may not be scum. I THINK that we should decide primarily based on whether YOUR ACTIONS HAVE BEEN SCUMMY.
And seeing as your actions

have

been scummy, I THINK that we shouldn't let you confirm yourself town just for pushing 1 lynch.

So that's what I THINK.

And what I KNOW, is that your desire to confirm yourself town based on speculation AND a shitty as fucking hell argument, is an incredibly anti-town pursuit.

[Exe]

@FF, regarding post 72. If all townies had agreed to no-kill at night, we would know that someone dying meant that scum had taken the kill.


This day is dragging on. Amrun should make the kill and then no-kill at night.

[Exe]

@ Exe: Say we go through with your plan, but someone still dies. Amrun claims she was not elected killer. Would you want to kill Amrun?

This is a stupid question, and similar to lining up lynches.
For one thing, we don't decide things so simply as "A happened, so kill B."
We would have to make an analysis, discuss things, and come to a reasonable conclusion.
For example, first we would make everyone claim they voted Amrun. If all townies were honest about this, then we could assume that scum either have more members than expected, have a way to steal the kill via a power, or that Amrun made the shot.
We would then actually discuss the likelihood of Amrun being scum, and we would

scumhunt

.

So short answer: No.
Long answer: This is a really pointless and rather scummy question.

[Exe]

And what about allowing people to claim? Which person do we make claim before we execute SV?

And your argument is full of complete and total BS. For example:

You say that narrowing the kill down to two choices gives scum the ability to influence the choice between two townies, but we run that risk in normal play.

No fucking shit. That's why LINING UP LYNCHES IS SCUMMY.
We run that risk in normal play, which is WHY we don't let people get away with it.

So why the FUCK should we let them get away with it now?
God, you're so fucking anti-town. Just stop wasting our time and let us move on with actually pro-town strategies.


Here's the simple truth: No killing at night CANNOT HURT US.
So why the fuck are you so fucking opposed to it?
The ONLY way you should be SO SURE that we should kill at night is if you have some magical information on who is scum. However, I've seen your scum reads, so frankly I think you're either being ignorant or you're scum trying to push your scummy agenda.


We are seriously wasting time on stupid speculation.

[Exe]

LOL. Nice "No you," defense. Very pro-town of you.

But sure. I've done "anti-town shit." I'm sure you can support that with actual examples...oh wait...

I didn't blow off your question, I pointed out why it was fucking anti-town. Don't blow off my accusation with your fucking bullshit.

So quit acting like a child and answer me properly next time.

Right. Calling your bullshit question scummy was totally acting like a child



OH and:

And what about allowing people to claim? Which person do we make claim before we execute SV?

Here we go. That's all you needed to say, thanks.

If you were reading, and not trying to just push your anti-town agenda, you would know that someone already said this about a page ago.

[Exe]

I'm going to be laughing so hard when you are executed tomorrow.

[Exe]

EBWOP: And that's all the medication I'll need.

[Exe]

There has been no posturing, but think what you want.
Is this day really still going?

[Exe]

I'm off partying til later tonight.

But frankly, I enjoy foul language. It spices up my life. I am (usually) careful not to flame in any personal direction, so I'm not breaking any rules. I simply like colorful adjectives.
But I'll try to tone it down...no promises though ;P

Aye.
I'm in favor of ending this nonsense with Amrun finally killing.

[Exe]

Listen. Listen now.

Discuss who you want to be the night Killer. Decide it now. Amrun dies today, that much is certain, but we need a real night choice.

Fucking hell, I fucking called that Amrun was scum from her FIRST POST and everyone talked me out of it. Last time I listen to ANYONE this game.

It's back to fucking balling destruction mode. Exe the Master of Destruction has been unleashed, no more nice play.

Personally, I would like to be elected night killer, but that's because I'm tired of trusting people.

[Exe]

Exactly. That's the point. Don't try to twist this around.

The town was VERY CLEAR that you should no-kill, and instead you decided to fuck the entire plan up and say "oh btw, vote me and I kill Vezok, or don't vote me and fuck the town. Either way, I give you no option!"

[Exe]

The TOWN was NOT clear on what I should do. I knew that you, personally, wanted a no-kill, Exe. No one else I was clear on.

OH FUCKING REALLY?

I propose we vote amrun as night executioner with the understanding that she is to no kill.

I agree with the said plan.

Since Amrun's the only person who I'll consider town regardless of SV's flip, I agree.

Even fucking Umbrage agreed.

But either way, NO ONE

agreed

that you should kill Vezok.
If you're really town, you ought to be killed today purely on the basis of fucking with an easy plan by taking matters into your own bloody hands when we had this shit all figured out.

There were a ton of other people you should have and could have voted for if you didn't want vezok to die.

BUT NO ONE THAT THE TOWN KNEW TO AGREE UPON.

I was surprised to be elected a night killer after that, honestly. If I'm really killed for this, I'll feel pretty betrayed. I tricked no one. I was very open. I didn't twist people's arms to vote for me. I was wrong on my read of vezok, obviously, but that doesn't make me scum.

BLAH BLAH BLAH POOR ME.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SCUM WOULD SAY TO STAY ALIVE. I AM NOT SURPRISED.

WHAT A TOWNIE WOULD BE DOING IS APOLOGIZING FOR DOING SOMETHING COMPLETELY FUCKING STUPID.

You die, get over it.

I voted FF, if that wasn't clear.

If yall would've listened to me and elected me executioner in the first place, none of this nonsense would be occurring. Fuck.

[Exe]

We all wanted you to end the day...there was nothing wrong with that.

What was wrong was deciding to kill someone you hadn't even asked to claim, and then giving the town no coordination to decide upon.

[Exe]

Notice how until now, Exe never really pushed Amrun.

I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO CALL AMRUN SCUM.

God fucking damnit, are you being willfully dense?

In fact, I am the ONLY ONE WHO HAS BEEN CALLING AMRUN AT ALL SUSPICIOUS THROUGHOUT THE GAME.

YOU defended her for AGES. NO ONE pushed Amrun, until you did your whole "herp derp everyone on the SO wagon is scum hurr hurr!" crap.


God, your fucking "Amrun, FF, Exe" thing is a fucking joke and it's getting old really fast. It's not even a case, you have no connections, you just said "Well what if?" and somehow you're convinced that your shitty reads are actually real.

OH AND FOR THE RECORD. SV AND VEZOK WERE TOWN. So good luck getting me (or anyone with a brain) to listen to ANY of your reads anymore Umbrage.

[Exe]

Long post to appear pro-town is meh. I don't really like a single one of your reads. Except maybe the one on tragedy, but I haven't seen tragedy play any other way yet.
Your reads are all so careful. Your top two scum read is the same as everyone else saying that Vezo fished, which frankly I don't see at all. It's been a crap argument since the first time it was made.
Your second highest read is a tip-toe. "TS is definitely scummy, don't worry, I don't wanna seem like I disagree, but we should still find SV scummy instead." Trying way too hard to please both sides.
Every other read is completely neutral. Cooldog is noobish but scummyish. TS is scummy but not worth a lynch. Exe was townie but now is confusing.
You don't take a single solid stand other than your first crappy case.

Tl;dr: I am disappoint. You haven't started off on a good foot.

Amrun is scummy by the scumtell of trying to please too many people. Fencesitting, some would say.

Hmm...who wants to die? TS? Amrun? Which to choose...

Amrun, I called you fishy from your very first post. Don't act like you just suddenly became a suspect of mine.

Umbrage lying? No surprise there.

Oh and this is priceless:

but you've been attacking me, SO, and anyone else who crosses you.

This is absolute horse shit. I've been attacking you and SO because you're both so fucking scummy. Also, who does "anyone else who crosses you" even refer to?

[Exe]

I've said like 4 times that I voted for FF.

I laughed a little on the inside at Umbrage ignoring the fact that I pointed out his blatant misrep.

I laughed a lot on the outside at SO. Seriously, that guy is either scum or shouldn't be allowed on this website.

This whole plan that everyone is formulating is just as stupid as the one D1. I don't know why we are trying to walk our way through this shit again.

[Exe]

So we're all scum, and everything we do is wrong.

I don't think I said anything remotely like that.

But you know what I'd like to see you do?

scumhunt.

This.

[Exe]

but exe is scum

Vezo's flip though does make me find Exe way more town, but still exe is 4th on my list. The other three are Stel, FF, and Amrun. I will post reasons tomorrow when I'm not in bed on my phone throwing up.

SO is so scummy it hurts. But that's nothing new.


Some important things to note:

1. Setael was the one who orchestrated the SV instead of Umbrage lynch. It's not damning, but it's worth noting.
2. Not a single person is discussing the SV flip, as a result of Amrun's actions. I'd be willing to bet that a portion of the people who started the initial Amrun-die discussion are scum as a result.
3. I have doubts on Amrun's scumminess. Not enough to give her any sorts of free pass, but enough that I am not ready to see her dead without some time for her to interact. I just can't seem to place her in the scum-teams I suspect.
4. There are clearly liars in the Night-Vote count, unless 3 people that claimed they voted Amrun were scum. Also, it is somewhat odd the number of people that voted for someone other than Amrun or FF.
5. I strongly feel like a lot of what is going on at this point is just noise. It's just a gut feeling, but something is off with the amount of discussion.
6. I'm getting bored and would like to see some crazy shit happen, so I may do something crazy. This is just a random note/warning.

As for today's plan: I think we should make me or I guess FF executioner, and then I will show exactly what went wrong last time.

Vote: FF

since I can't vote for myself.

[Exe]

Unvote. Vote: Exe

[Exe]

Lol. SO, are you even trying to actually play this game?

[Exe]

Have I been elected yet?

What are the votes at?

[Exe]

I see nothing from the mod that would indicate that townies are pilgrims.

It's obvious that the townies are the pilgrims

Killings were a normal thing in this village. Some villagers, some witches.

I see a reference to villagers and witches. Where did you get "pilgrims"?

P-edit: Well, there is TS's answer.

[Exe]

HOW TO WIN THE GAME:

Step 1: Kill Amrun.
Step 2: Kill Final Fires.
Step 3: Kill Tragedy.

IF GAME IS NOT WON BY THAT POINT:

Step 4: Kill Exe.

BINGO!!!!!!!

Also.
Is this plan going to be as fruitful as your plans to kill Vezo and SV?

[Exe]

I am fine, however, with exe being day killer (just not night killer since he voted Amrun).

Voted Amrun when? Day 1?

Because I voted FF at night...for the thousandth time...

[Exe]

Also, I don't see how asking you to point out one time you've scumhunted as ad hominem at all.

QFT.

Someone remind me why we started letting Umbrage-scum distract us again?

[Exe]

OK. I was all set to just fuck this game and let you sheep kill me. But my damn conscience won't let me do it. I really want to win this. So here I am, trying to get you all to see reason.

Of course you want to win. Surprise surprise?

Nobody is objective in this game.

Oh my fucking god, will you stop with this argument? YOU aren't fucking objective. Welcome to the motherfucking club, yeah?
But let's show some examples!!

Everything coming from him now is ad hominem,

False.

I've attacked or been attacked by everyone here.

Not a good case for being anything really.

There always has to be someone playing devil's advocate.

LOL. This is your excuse for having shit cases and shit arguments all game? Got it.

I have put together a solid case on Final Fires.

This is subjective. And false.

Being brash does not mean I don't make good arguments.

But objectively, you don't make good arguments. See SV and Vezo for proof.

If someone was being unreasonable, I tried to slap them straight.

Subjective.

If the town was chaotic, I tried to instill some order.

Subjective.



LONG STORY SHORT, THAT ENTIRE POST IS JUST NOISE. I'm not letting your lies infect this town any longer Umbrage.

[Exe]

Vote tampering?

Hey guys: TS voted AFTER SO...In other words, after I had already been elected. His vote didn't move because it was too late, not because it was tampered with.
Unless someone can disprove it by voting now and having their vote counted, there's no reason to believe otherwise.

Also, this is my show now, and I'm going to get to the bottom of this here nonsense.

[Exe]

Ok so the 5 votes instead of 6 IS a vote related ability.

The TS not being able to vote definitely is not, IMO.

So that would mean that we either have an invisible voter (which is a BITCHY role, and only really useful to scum, and therefore I like to believe our mod didn't put an invisible voter in the game).

OR we have a doubler voter.

And scum are almost never doubler voters because it win's them LyLo situations.

SO.

Someone on my wagon is probs the double voter AND is probably town.

[Exe]

OK

FIGURED IT OUT.

Ant is a double voter. It becomes clear if you compare D1 vote counts to todays.

I will give him a post to confirm or deny, but the truth is it's true, and as far as I'm concerned, I find it unlikely to be a scum role.

[Exe]

Alright, I'd like someone to explain to me why the fuck we are killing at night when that's exactly what fucked us over last time?

There is not enough information to kill at night. No one is even making fucking cases for this shit.

If Amrun = Town -> SO must Die.
If Amrun = Scum -> TS must Die.

Period of Correction.

I DON'T SEE MUCH DISCUSSION REGARDING THIS.

Kill Amrun today as the execution.
If Amrun is scum -> Kill Umbrage
If Amrun is town -> Kill SO

OR THIS.

Kill SO today as the execution.
If SO is scum -> Kill Umbrage
If SO is town -> Kill Am

OR THIS!

You're all guilty of this, which is funny because it's SO fucking anti-town.

Listen

: The argument for using the kill at night was that somehow we would be able to so thoroughly and accurately discuss the possibilities of the flip that we would know its consequences.

BUT THAT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT'S HAPPENING. PEOPLE ARE JUST NAMING THEIR OPINIONS.

AND YOU KNOW HOW MANY OPINIONS ARE GOING TO BE 100% FALSE? AS MANY AS THERE ARE SCUM ALIVE.

The kill tonight should be a NO KILL. WE ARE NOT ABLE TO DISCUSS THIS EFFECTIVELY OTHERWISE.

I swear to god, if we lose this game because of this nonsense, I'm going to fucking demand that everyone go to a Newbie game where someone can teach them that SETTING UP LYNCHES IS TEXT-BOOK ANTITOWN.


In other, less anti-town, news.
Amrun might not be the best option for killing today. Not sure how I feel about it yet.

[Exe]

Hmm, I need to see something.

Please, everyone vote for who they want killed today. I want to see if Amrun is still the favorite.

[Exe]

Ant, can you please reconfirm your kill choice?

[Exe]

STRUNGOVER SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PROVE HE IS TOWN, YOU HAVE TO FUCKING PROVE HE IS SCUM.

False. This isn't a court of law with fancy fairness rules.

A list of "not town" people is JUST as effective at catching scum as a list of "scummy" people.

For example, I currently find Charter, FF, Ant, protown. I have setael, TS, and tragedy as about neutral. That leaves you, Amrun and SO as scummy...see how that works?

[Exe]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2805920

Ok, so you've pointed out where SO was scummy. Now where was he pro-town?

[Exe]

Does anyone wanna tally the current votes btw?

[Exe]

YOU CAN JUST SAY 'THAT'S NOT PRO-TOWN' TO ANYTHING THAT'S THROWN TO YOU WITHOUT HAVING TO MAKE AN ACTUAL CASE.

No shit. Maybe if you could actually make a decent case for him being pro-town, you wouldn't have this problem...


@Set: While I fully understand the argument for Amrun scum, I actually think the very opposite of what you suggested.
Scum would be using this opportunity to support a bus. Almost guaranteed IMO. They would actually really benefit from pushing the Amrun lynch rather than the SO.
I am not at all surprised that many of the probtown players are pushing SO instead.

[Exe]

If anything the scum are the ones that are WILLING to kill Amrun, but would PREFER to kill SO. Like Final Fires...

No. I just said this is probably not likely. Scum are rarely so simple and predictable.

[Exe]

I would actually like to hear Amrun's opinion on who to kill. However, if she continues to refuse to cooperate, that doesn't bode well for any pro-town motives.

[Exe]

Hmmm. Well then. Interesting vote count.

I'll post more later. I think I've decided what's gonna happen.

[Exe]

ISTEN EVERYONE: IF SO FLIPS TOWN, YOU ARE GOING TO VOTE ME FOR THE NIGHTKILL. I WILL KILL AMRUN. TOMORROW YOU WILL VOTE ME EXECUTIONER. I WILL KILL FINAL FIRES. THIS IS THE PATH TO TAKE IF YOU WANT TO WIN THE GAME. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO HAMMER REASON INTO YOUR SKULLS THIS ENTIRE DAY. WHEN IT TURNS OUT FINAL FIRES IS FULL OF IT, YOU WILL VOTE ME. THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. THIS IS NOT A I HATE UMBRAGE SO I WON'T VOTE HIM DEAL. THIS IS A DO THIS IF YOU ARE TOWN DEAL.

For the thousandth fucking time, you aren't hammering "reason" into anything, YOU ARE HAMMERING NONSENSE.

We killed YOUR choices Day 1 and they sucked.

Also, you have no power to make this demand.

[Exe]

I think I've decided what's gonna happen.

NO. THE TOWN DECIDES WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. DO. NOT. FUCKING. PULL. ANY. FUCKING. SHIT. TODAY. OR. WE. WILL. FUCKING. KILL. YOU.

Says the one who wants the town to bow down to his newest ridiculous demands.

[Exe]

Oh also:

SHE BETRAYED THE TOWN. SHE KILLED THE DOC.

She killed the cop, not the doc.
AND you voted her to do it.

[Exe]

ANYWAY IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT THE SCUM ARE LYING ABOUT VOTING FOR AMRUN.

No...it wasn't proven that all scum claimed to vote other people...this is just false.


Umbrage, just seriously shut up. You're so not helpful it's ridiculous.
I'm not being mean. I'm being pro-town. You AREN'T helping anything, so you need to just stop talking.

P-Edit:
Right...which leaves you exactly where you left off...scummy based on actions.

[Exe]

/ignore Umbrage.

[Exe]

Alright, this is a bunch of nonsense.

I am doing what the TOWN has voted for.

Execute: Strung_Over

SO HERE IS WHAT WE ARE DOING.

You WILL vote me as night killer, and I WILL NOT kill anyone. If anything OTHER than this happens, a townie may end up dying.
There is no point in deciding who ELSE to vote as night-executioner: it will only cause confusion.
Anyone who DOESN'T vote me is playing AGAINST the town. You have been warned.

And for the record, there is NO DOWNSIDE TO THIS PLAN. Unless I kill someone tonight. And if I kill someone tonight, I would suggest that everyone kill me tomorrow, so THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE.

[Exe]

WHOA.

I was elected Night Executioner. I chose to no-kill.

Interesting....something else is afoot here. Looks like there are some interesting roles in this game.

Alright, so with the two EXTREMELY distractive people out of the way, I might actually be able to get some pro-town discussion going on here.

Amrun ought to be killed.

I'm reanalyzing the SO wagon.

Shit is gonna go down this day. I want to see some real scum dead.

[Exe]

LOL you're going to kill me? Seriously?

Execute: Amrun

It may be too late for that, but if so, this game is over anyways.

GG scum.

[Exe]

Also, why the fuck would I claim the kill? I could have easily said that I didn't get it.

Scum is seriously leading this shit.

Also, Amrun is now trying to tell me I am scum, when she pulled even worse shit first. LOL.

[Exe]

Also, I am town Executioner, I can execute a player during the day once as long as executioner hasn't been chosen. Hence my "execute: amrun."

I planned on using it D1 after my gambit got some reactions, but I decided to see how things went.

Seriously, Ant, I really believe you are town. Think this shit through man.

[Exe]

No. I didn't fucking lie.

I received the role, I submitted a no-kill.

It is NOT the end of story. Do NOT try to stifle discussion. I had enough of Umbrage and SO acting like bafoons, I will not allow you to misguide us any longer either. It's time that we actually started playing Mafia instead of just following the wiki and reacting to every action at the most surface level. I'm tired of it.

Why the FUCK would I claim to have received the role?
I would have been perfectly safe to say I didn't get the night kill and blame the scum. I would have been PERFECTLY SAFE.

I'm being HONEST. THINK ABOUT IT for fucks sake.

Look at the people who voted SO instead of you Amrun. Therein lies AT LEAST 1 scum, if not two. I guarantee it.

Ant_to_the_max, if you do not heed my words, I cannot believe you are truly a townie.

[Exe]

SO (5) - Twistedspoon, Tragedy,

Final Fires

, Ant, Amrun
Amrun (3) -

Umbrage

, Setael,

SO

Umbrage (1) - Charter

Look at the votes.
I have to believe Ant is a townie, or else his role is way overpowered.

That leaves Amrun, TS, & Tragedy as a set of probably 2-scum and 1 town.
Charter being completely off of both wagons is actually a very "playing it safe" spot. He's definitely moved down on my town-list.

TS is probtown...but I'll shoot myself in the foot if I was right about TS being scum at the beginning >.>
Tragedy is almost definitely scum. I had been pretty much ignoring her until now, but she's acting a lot like in Frenzy mafia.
Amrun is probably scum.

[Exe]

LIGHTBULB.

It's massclaim time.
I mean it.

[Exe]

I couldn't trust any player but myself to not kill. Hence, from my perspective, the most pro-town choice was to force you all to let me have the kill. I did not take into account the chance that someone could somehow die anyways, because I had no reason to believe that would happen.

I just want to for the record point out that you were wrong about this.

Just for my ego's sake, I have to say you are dead wrong here. This would've been the same scenario regardless of who was elected. I still say that I minimized losses. If nothing else, we know the kill was a person's will, rather than a town consensus. This is good information.

My only hesitation in mass claiming is that there's evidently a doc still alive and I'm not sure it's wise to out them.

To be perfectly honest, my entire hope is to out the doc so I can have at least 1 more person I can trust. Also, with the Cop dead, there isn't anyone particularly awesome that the Doc needs to protect anyways. Add this to the fact that scum have less control over night kills than in a normal game, and I'd say that the Doctor is hardly necessary at this point.

We need to get a solid scum-suspect. We've spent 2 days arguing stupid cases, allowing people to line up lynches like CRAZY, and blaming people for the most superficial tells ever. This stuff has to stop.

[Exe]

Final Fires (2+1 or 2): Setael, Amrun, Ant_to_the_max
Umbrage (1): StrungOver

If Satael, TS, and Exe are telling the truth, then FF would have received the kill Night 1. This did not happen. Therefore, at least one of those three is lying.

Hypothetically, let's assume that one person who claims to have voted for FF is scum and actually voted for Amrun:

Amrun (3): Umbrage, scum
Final Fires (4+1 or 2): Setael, Amrun, Ant_to_the_max, town, town
Umbrage (1): StrungOver

If TWO people who claimed to have voted for FF are scum, then that makes 5 votes for Amrun vs. either 4 or 5 votes for FF. That's not enough to get a majority if Amrun is scum, but it is enough if Amrun is town.

Therefore, either Amrun is town and two out of (Setael,TS,Exe) are scum or Amrun lied when she said that she voted for FF. If the former, then Exe is almost certainly running some sort of gambit today/last night.

Now let's assume the lie. This makes Amrun scum. FF has two votes, Amrun has one vote, and some other non-Amrun player has two votes. We're still looking for two scum to vote for Amrun, but now the field is open. Out of the set (Setael,TS,Exe,charter,Tragedy,Haschel), two people are lying about their votes. Which two? I think Tragedy has given odd choices for her night choices; me and TS. I would choose Tragedy for my primary choice of Amrunpartner. charter and I voted for each other, likely for similar reasons, and charter voting for me is a move that I honestly believe he made, so he's out. You'll have to decide for yourself if my vote made sense (hint: it does). We're down to Satael, TS, and Exe again, only this time only one of them is scum. Reading the Sateal/Amrun interaction, I don't feel that they are scumbuddies.

You neglect to mention that some of the people who DIDN'T vote FF could also be lying.
If 1 person on the FF wagon was lying, but 2 of the OTHER people were scum who voted Amrun, Amrun would have won.

The fact that Haschel made this entire post but did not bring up the possibility that makes HIM scum, is a HUGE scumtell. Haschel just moved WAY up on my scumlist

.

Also, the fact that Amrun recieved the night kill Night 1 is what has made me question my scum-read on her. She NEEDS all 3 scum votes to top the FF wagon, so I don't think she is prob-scum, unless both TS and Setael are lying about voting FF.

I'd bet that the scum-team is Haschel, TS, {Tragedy/Charter}

Day kill should be either TS or Haschel.

[Exe]

Also, @Haschel: don't try to claim that you discussed the possibility. You brought it up and IMMEDIATELY said you and Charter were probably not lying. You have put all the pressure on people to believe that the scum must lie almost entirely on the claimed FF votes.
OH and that part where he says that both he and Charter's votes make sense probably means that if Haschel is scum, Charter is town. Just sayin.

[Exe]

Hey, hey. Daykill nmber 2 wasn't fake. I was legitimately trying to use my daykill. However, it failed as you had already been elected Executioner.

Massclaim suggestion is NOT bad. How are you trying to spin that as somehow dangerous?
If there was EVER a game where massclaims were good, it's one where the kills are at least somewhat predictable.

Do you really think I would somehow fake a daykill as scum for absolutely no reason? Come on.

[Exe]

Hey, hey. Daykill nmber 2 wasn't fake. I was legitimately trying to use my daykill. However, it failed as you had already been elected Executioner.

This was for Day 1 or 2?
If it was Day 2, then you're out of your mind.

I'm talking about what JUST happened. What are you even asking?

Day 1 I made a fake daykill.

Today, I tried to use my ACTUAL ROLE. However, it doesn't work if there's already an Executioner.

Notice, day 1 I wrote "kill" instead of "execute."

[Exe]

Don't know what we're waiting for. Exe is obv lying about last night, and obv lying about having a daykill.

Let me live and I can prove I am not lying about having a Daykill. You have no place to state that I am "obv" lying, especially when it can be confirmed.

[Exe]

I love that you guys think I am retarded enough to try to kill someone at night after I have fought against a night-kill all game. Also, I don't think you guys realize that I am way too arrogant to have put myself in any danger by killing someone after claiming I wouldn't.

This seriously is one of the dumbest games of Mafia I have ever had to put up with.

Lining up lynches based on "OMG SOMEONE DIED OBV LIAR" is literally one of the worst attempts at scumhunting I have ever seen.
But hell, everyone has been lining up lynches all game, so I am not surprised.
I am seriously ashamed at the inability to look beyond the superficial in this game.
Since Day 1 I've been fighting you people because of the nonsense-textbook-shitty-as-hell scumtells you've been pushing. You know, the ones that got our cop killed?
But sure, don't apply thought or reasoning to your scumhunting even after it's been proven ineffective.
Just keep hammering away at the most blatantly obvious interpretation, because EVERYONE knows that Mafia is not about subtlety or subterfuge.

I am done arguing this. This game has been frustrating enough already, I am tired of bashing my head against a wall.

[Exe]

ALSO

calling me a liar about my role claim is STUPID when I can confirm it at ANY TIME the next day.

But whatever, let the prob-scum push that scumtell too.

[Exe]

But how did you supposedly NOT KNOW someone had been elected?

And you've been arrogant as hell straight out of the gate... It's kind of funny that you're using "I'm not that arrogant" as a defense.

I didn't not know, I was just hoping I would get it off before the election counted. I never said I didn't know.

Also, reading is tech. I said I AM arrogant...please reread.

I am too arrogant to risk my own life as scum by doing something so stupid and obvious.

[Exe]

"Too arrogant" doesn't make sense in that context.

Too arrogant makes PERFECT sense.
You're suggesting that I made the kill. Making the kill would knowingly RISK MY LIFE. I am FAR too arrogant to risk my life unnecessarily. How do you not understand this simple concept?

wifom?

OF COURSE IT'S WIFOM. WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF

REAL

MAFIA.

We aren't in the newbie queue anymore. People don't follow the wikitells. WIFOM is everywhere, and it's ALL you really have to work with. You can't just dismiss it, you have to analyze it and come to a conclusion.

[Exe]

A public day-kill is almost NEVER a scum role.

Why?

Because in LyLo, I win for scum.

Obvious town-role is obvious.

You should be debating whether or not my claim was honest, NOT whether it'd be a scum role...because it wouldn't.

[Exe]

Remembering FF's vote, Amrun

could

still be scum.
She's painting the "waaah exe betrayed us," so thickly, that it's starting to sound really fake.

Gah. I don't know. All I know is the scum is probably between Amrun, TS, Haschel, Tragedy, and Charter >.>

[Exe]

I chose not to vote last night. I wanted the kill so I could guarantee a no-kill.

[Exe]

I'm suddenly worried about ant's alignment. Why wouldn't a scum have 2 votes during the day?

Stupid question. Stupid speculation

Think 5 person lylo. 2 scum, 3 townies, 3 votes to elect.
Scum both vote on of themselves, scum win.

This isn't rocket science. Scum cannot have a double voter in LyLo.

More later. Just had to jump on this stupidity before it festered.

[Exe]

Also, btw, it's MyLo.

Best play would actually be to no-kill and then intentionally hand the kill to scum. Effectively, a no-lynch.

[Exe]

he would have killed day one, because we hadn't elected an executioner when he did it.

False. Day 1 I typed "Kill: TS" Kill is not the command I can use.

I've already pointed out that I can prove it. Continue to contribute absolutely nothing to this game.

[Exe]

Also, isn't the Executioner (Exe's Case) normally anti-town..?

Nice

mudslinging trag-scum.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Executioner

This is the role you are referring to.
That is

not

my role.
I am called Executioner because of the flavor. I am a 1 shot day-vig.
You should know this, and your shoddy attempt at throwing suspicion is highly spurious.

[Exe]

Why didn't you use it D2?

Because I wasn't going to use it until I felt it was necessary. Day 2 seemed like it would be productive, and also once I was going to be elected anyways, it would've been a total waste.

[Exe]

I didn't afk.

There's just a whole lot of nonsense in here.

I've pretty much figured out what needs to be figured out. The three scum are almost surely contained in the group {TS, Trag, Haschel, Charter, Amrun}.
All I can do now is hope that Ant believes me instead of going with the gut "kill exe because he seems on the surface to have lied."

[Exe]

I support a kill of any in my group of scum-suspects. That said, Haschel is my preference, followed by TS/Tragedy, and Charter/Amrun last. I'm perfectly fine with a TS kill.

Setael: if we don't hit scum today, we'll be in MyLo, so there's a good reason to no-kill tonight.
Of course, if we hit scum, I'd say kill a logical scum-buddy.

[Exe]

I still think we should have massclaimed. Just saying.

So tragedy will be dying? K.

I don't really know what exactly we need to discuss.

[Exe]

Idk though. Not exactly sold, but we did have a nurse so a deputy isn't too far out of the question.

So if there's a Deputy then..

Vezok [Cop] - TS [Deputy]
FF [Nurse] - Amrun/Setael/Charter/Haschel [Doctor?]
Ant [Doublevoter] - Exe [Executioner?]
Tragedy [VT] - Umbrage [VT]
Amrun [??] - Setael [??]
Charter [??] - Haschel [??]

Tragedy is making sure she gives her input on PR-hunting so she can help her scumbuddies before she dies.

[Exe]

Based on Nurse/Deputy Claims/FF Flip, there's linked roles in this game.
If, by chance, Mafia has Double Votes, then a Town member would possibly have Double votes as well.
Executioner would be an alternative Executor.. Hmm...

Scumbuddies?

Anti-town speculation is anti-town. Stop trying to outguess the mod.

Does anyone else realize that Tragedy is trying to mess with our heads before we kill her?

[Exe]

MASSCLAIM SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED. THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD CLAIM.

Just thought I'd remind people of this.

[Exe]

OMFG I CALLED IT.

WHAT DID I SAY WHEN AMRUN REPLACED IN!? TS AND AMRUN.

TS AND FUCKING AMRUN.

YOU ALL OWE ME YOUR SOULS. ALL OF YOU.

[Exe]

Also, Tragedy was the ONLY person in my last list of scum who was town. I was 4 for 5. Fuck yeah.