A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Shadow1psc]

Hello everyone, glad to be here in my first large format game on mafiascum (but not ever, have played large games on another site).

[Shadow1psc]

Put your hands down on yourself. We get nothing out of self-votes on that. It's fine if you want to do it when we're close to lynching and it's you vs. someone else, but the raise your hand function is only valuable if we're coming to a consensus as town. If the person who wins wins with 2 or 3 votes by virtue of the fact everyone wanted to be hand of the king, we won't get much information out of it, and it becomes fairly likely scum will have gotten the power.

Mostly, though, I'd prefer to leave elevating someone to the hand of the king to when I actually get some town reads and not have all this static from self-votes.

So with that:

VOTE: Locke Lamora

[raise]Shadow1psc[/raise]

[Shadow1psc]

I thought that would be an actual tag D=

Raise: Shadow1psc

[Shadow1psc]

lol @ rvbw *shrug*

[Shadow1psc]

/waits for ChessKid to come in and create 10 pages based on why people should mass nameclaim for governer status.

[Shadow1psc]

Someone wanna explain what a hydra brings to the game (mafia in general, not this theme)?

[Shadow1psc]

Well I know what it is, but why?

[Shadow1psc]

It would seem to me more scummy that people bw raise another person. Self raising doesn't seem inherently scummy in the slightest. Inb4 "you're scum for not thinking what you did is scummy"

[Shadow1psc]

I know like two people in this game. Since when is not throwing a random vote that's just gonna be retracted scummy? I can random vote comically, but not self raise comically? I don't expect in the slightest to get the power, nor do I want it.

[Shadow1psc]

It would seem to me more scummy that people bw raise another person. Self raising doesn't seem inherently scummy in the slightest. Inb4 "you're scum for not thinking what you did is scummy"

Raising yourself tells us nothing about you. Three days from now, it will still tell us nothing about you.

Raising someone else tells us nothing about you *at this point in time*. Three days from now, it may tell us quite a bit about you.

Self-raising isn't scummy per se; it is, however, pointless for the town, which is what makes it attractive to scum.

That's a fair point, but one could say the same value of voting. I saw voting and raising as an empirically equivalent action as far as pure statistics goes. I could have random self voted to, it happens and people don't tend to freak out over it in RVS. If it makes you guys feel better though;

Unraise: Shadow1psc

pedit: I have had a similar experience with Chesskid in a mini theme.

[Shadow1psc]

And we've already hit WIFOM. Hurray, congratulations on nullifying an entire argument.

[Shadow1psc]

And yet the very fact that you know this statistic tells us that scum could easily have seen this and decided to self-raise because "that's what town does".

"Scum could be self voting because they know its town. Or they could be self voting because they know we know scum knows its town" etc etc etc.

[Shadow1psc]

Summation; there's absolutely no way to call self voting and such a low volume of content scum or town.

[Shadow1psc]

To be fair, I don't see many games hit the ground running so hard. There's usually a few pages of random-whatever-stage before people start harping on things, so I threw down some comedy. Though I'm glad I could be a catalyst of discussion.

[Shadow1psc]

ITT: Chess still doesn't acknowledge he's part of the problem n.n

It's gonna be a great game<3

[Shadow1psc]

You were never a town read *shrug*

Anyway, different game. As long as you don't kick your caps lock up to 11, we'll have a dandy time.

[Shadow1psc]

Anyway, I'm going to ignore chesskid and the irony he brings to the table for now.

[Shadow1psc]

Bran, tree stump, GO!

[Shadow1psc]

What's that? Rickon fell down the well?! xD

[Shadow1psc]

While its slow, I guess I'll take a moment to mention that I am most active when I work, which is a normal 8-4 weekday kinda deal. I tend to try and read along through the weekends from iPhone/iPad, but I don't post much on Friday-Sunday.

[Shadow1psc]

Oh this is gonna be fun. I assume you can't confirm your restriction, nor if you are in fact some variation of tree stump eh.

[Shadow1psc]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious really. I just wanted to poke fun at the big bear

*poke poke*

[Shadow1psc]

lolpuns. Anyway, that's a pretty interesting role to have, is there any precedent for it, and hasdgfas, do you have limitations to what you can do through *actions*?

[Shadow1psc]

and FWIW Grey, doesn't mayor/governor not have the ability to stop their own lynch?

[Shadow1psc]

The only other thing I'd like to know from Hasg is if he can vote/raise or not. Also I have to wonder (and if I'm over-stepping my bounds or this is something we don't want scum to know, ignore it), does breach of your restriction result in a) modkill, or b) tree-stumping? If I'm going too far into modkill territory myself by asking, just ignore this >_>

[Shadow1psc]

Grey is one of two people I've played a full game with in this thread (Chesskid being the other one), so I apologize if I seem like a VI because I know how annoying it is (and do win my fair share of games).

That out of the way, I'm not sure what to make of Grey in this game, parallel with the one I just played with him. I wanna call it scum, but truth be told he got quick hammered by scum d1 before he could really get grilled. I'd be lying if I said I didn't find the merit in some of his original points about raising, and he did back down on clamoring for Governor when he learned it couldn't save itself (which, correct me if I'm wrong is almost always the case). I find it more odd that he didn't know that, but he gave up on it when he realized it's not as big a deal as he thought so all that wrapped up together strikes me as town that effectively did nothing except draw out DGB, who on gut reaction I simply like less and less as he posts.

[Shadow1psc]

Yes.

[Shadow1psc]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16004

FWIW I've never been scum here (I was hoping to get it this game and was excited when my role came up Lannister... then went 'awwww').

[Shadow1psc]

I just had an idea?

Why don't we raise Sir Payne to governor...?

[Shadow1psc]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16004

FWIW I've never been scum here (I was hoping to get it this game and was excited when my role came up Lannister... then went 'awwww').

Quick skim confirms my read on Grey.

I just had an idea?

Why don't we raise Sir Payne to governor...?

I've seen difficult post restrictions like that be both town and scum.

My point is that he couldn't use it, or would be shoe-horned into not using it, else we'd lynch him.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm pretty blind. I didn't even catch that Hasgd was the first on my wagon even. Terrible. As far as fencing on GreyIce, I got him lynched as town before, and the game wasn't long enough for me to determine then, nor is it now if his playstyle is currently contradictory to former. I'm leaning more towards yes, but *shrug*. We've got a deadline a mile away.

[Shadow1psc]

Yeah and if I'm town, why haven't you raised me?

MoI your town. Do me a favor and raise me. LETS start this wagn

The best question is ... why haven't you raised yourself? It hard to jump on a wagon you aren't even supporting yet.

Haven't you heard? Raising yourself is a scum te*gets shot*

[Shadow1psc]

I don't like the way the cow looks at me ._. 2 weeks isn't enough time?

[Shadow1psc]

Zoraster hasn't posted nearly enough content. And it's not like he was around for the majority of the thread, he was gone after the morning. I disagreed (and provoked) him, and he called Grey scummy, who at the time might as well have been white knighting me possibly from that PoV. I don't get all the suspecting when there's other players doing scummier things with much more content.

[Shadow1psc]

^ In context he voted me for directly quoting his first post and raising myself. It was logical, and he FoS'd greyice for arguing it too. I see that less about being scum on a BW (which i don't remember if it was a BW by the time he made his third post), and more stubborn town.

[Shadow1psc]

Oh, there was. That shit happened a lot quicker than I thought. Is the cow normally a pretty good/perceptive player? Also, the hydracorn has been my FoS next to DGB until DGB started making more sense.

[Shadow1psc]

VI = Village Idiot.

[Shadow1psc]

Deja vu. Today just seems like a big repeat of a lot of yesterday. Anyway, as mentioned before, my weekends with mafia are sparse. Grey has continually looked too pushy and boisterous, and is my strongest FoS at this point, so I'm going to lay my vote down now. I don't expect a quick lynch or anything, but I'm putting my stance out there.

VOTE: GreyICE

[Shadow1psc]

DGB - why do you consistently have me in your (small) town read list, yet keep entertaining the idea that I may also be scum? Which is it?

[Shadow1psc]

@Feysal

We have a lot of people, and only a few days worth of posts. If reading correctly, at least 10 of our player base are enjoying the weekend, and we had a late-in-the-week start. Discussion was pretty good the first day, then dropped off, as I assume it will most weekends. SO as far as scum-hunting, or lack thereof, I've only ever been in one large format game (different site), where there was 27 players and a 48 hour day cycle, on top of already knowing the playerbase, so this is a different experience coming into a different community, with people I don't know in a large volume, where I don't have the advantage of knowing peoples' habits or scum tells, nor the time to read past games on 20+ people. I'm doing the best I can though, and the longer I'm alive, the more value I'll be I'm sure, and I know I work well in the smaller formats.

[Shadow1psc]

What makes you think either of us is vanilla? I agree with the logic that giving it to a vanilla just makes for more NK fodder to draw away from what real power town may have, but we can't really narrow down who that is without also narrowing down scum's list of who not to shoot. Powerfishing?

[Shadow1psc]

Protip: If people want to believe you are vanilla, let them.

Obviously, BUT, that was a roundabout way of pointing out that it's stupid to try and fish out a vanilla to pin it to, because everyone (smart) is either gonna claim vanilla, or stay quiet, and in either case narrow down the pool of people scum should be shooting.

[Shadow1psc]

Ok, sorry for the lack of content yesterday, but I was sick PLUS Valentine's day PLUS the pre-release and subsequent midnight release of Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 so yeah...

I'm gonna go back and quote stuff, but here's the tl;dr version:

I almost felt better about GreyICE, but he went back and proved me wrong. I feel worse about Hascow - I believe it was answered that he doesn't have a list of 'mod approved' actions in his post restriction, and if that's the case, he's being intentionally unhelpful in some of his posts where he could make more sense. DGB... could be over-zealous town, but is going about his conviction in an anti-town way. I could see both DGB and Hascow being scum, ESPECIALLY if we're dealing with two scum teams. More to come.

[Shadow1psc]

Nice choice, hascow is probscum. That old role might be the inspiration that gave him the idea that he could get away with a lot of nonsense by faking a post restriction.

I WANT TO SEE

HASCOW

BREAK THE POST RESTRICTION IN HIS NEXT POST.

hasdgfas' posts make my head hurt. Specifically #281.

*raises eyebrow*

*points at Magua*

*points at self*

------------------------------------------------
VOTE: Xtoxm

*points at Xtoxm*
*points at mouth*

*spreads hands wide*

This is a great example of Hascow just being confusing, and why it would have been pertinent to establish this sooner; There seems to be a lot of canned response going on here. Bolding for 'wtf does that even mean'. You're either really into your character, to the point of being unhelpful, or you're really into your fake claim.

I don't think I need to quote DGB's posts asking Cow to break his restriction, those are all pretty self explanatory on the scum scale.

unraise, Raise: Shadow1psc

Catch!

o.O As much as I'd like to, I don't think everyone else feels nearly as good about me. I'm the new kid in town here, and people aren't necessarily going to trust me, even with a town read.

MOD

If you modded a game, and put in a post restriction role and the person PURPOSELY broke said post restriction. Would you modkill them?

What was the point of this question? Hascow is either a) lying, or b)has some kind of consequence obviously laid out to him by the mod (ala stumping, or w/e). A mod confirmed townie is great, but much more likely to die at some point.

Protip: If people want to believe you are vanilla, let them.

Obviously, BUT, that was a roundabout way of pointing out that it's stupid to try and fish out a vanilla to pin it to, because everyone (smart) is either gonna claim vanilla, or stay quiet, and in either case narrow down the pool of people scum should be shooting.

I'm not following this conversation. What does being smart and claiming vanilla have to do with anything and how are they comparable?

I was pointing out that trying to pin Gov. on a 'vanilla' is a pointless exercise. Everyone (smart) is going to claim vanilla, because saying "Oh, no, don't raise me, I'm the cop/doc/bodyguard/whatever" would be downright idiotic. Additionally, scum have no problem claiming vanilla I assume, so 'town read+vanilla' isn't really a qualifier for this. The second half of that argument is that even if it did work as planned, you're just narrowing down the list of people scum have to sift through when fishing for power role kills.

Okay, this behavior is totally fucking antitown. Look at the options DGB wants to hand to a town-hascow:

1) Break a real post restriction deliberately, incite modkill. Day ends, we lose our lynch
2) Hascow doesn't break the restriction, DGB insists we lynch him. He flips town, day ends.

@DGB

- are you sure enough that Hascow is scum that you would be willing to be lynched tomorrow if he flips town?

P.S. I've had my vote three serious places so far. I'm really content with all three of them. My scumreads just get scummier.
Call me the village idiot, Benmage, but I think I'm getting results, while you rant and moan about policy lynching the world.

Here's the post that bothers me, any time I see it from anyone - Town can be wrong. A lot of town will even be stubborn about it to a fault. This sounds like an easy way to set up a lynch come Hascow's flip. It forces DGB into this trap, scum or no, that ties him now to Hascow, and with DGB's answer, is just fuel for scum should Hascow flip town and DGB flip town. Obvious WIFOM all over the place and very specific scenario, but not unlikely if GreyICE is informed minority, and again, possibility of rival scum factions.

I think that does it for my catch-up.

[Shadow1psc]

Ok, sorry for the lack of content yesterday, but I was sick PLUS Valentine's day PLUS the pre-release and subsequent midnight release of Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 so yeah...

Do you always apologize for not posting one day? Why? Also, why did you feel the apology needed 3 excuses?

Yeah. I'm most active during the weekdays, so if I'm absent during them there's usually a reason, and I like to be courteous and explain it is all *shrug*.

[Shadow1psc]

Zoraster, I also would like hearing why you thought ChessKid was dead.

Got confused with another ongoing game.

---

Shadow is firmly on my scum detector. I don't see him trying to find scum at all, while trying to slip under the radar. Because nothing has changed from my initial scum reads, that makes LL, Kast and Shadow my scum reads. I'd love to see a wagon on any one of them.

What about my post just now has nothing in the way of scum hunting? My vote is down, I continue to support it, and I'm even for alternate lynch candidates. I don't comment on every little thing, and I keep some observations to myself when useful for watching for scum slips.

[Shadow1psc]

Ok, sorry for the lack of content yesterday, but I was sick PLUS Valentine's day PLUS the pre-release and subsequent midnight release of Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 so yeah...

Do you always apologize for not posting one day? Why? Also, why did you feel the apology needed 3 excuses?

Yeah. I'm most active during the weekdays, so if I'm absent during them there's usually a reason, and I like to be courteous and explain it is all *shrug*.

This is so lame. I'm not sure if it's scummy though. The jury is still out.

If you're gonna jump on me too, I can provide examples where I do this in every game on d1, where I both a) explain what days I'm usually active and b) apologize if I am inactive for some reason. I just believe in courtesy, and nipping things at the bud. Call it over defensive if you will, but if you wanna pick that to harp on, you're missing much bigger problems.

[Shadow1psc]

As far as Cow and his restriction goes my gut says he is faking it, mostly because I am having a hard time understanding what he is trying to say. I don't think the mod would cripple someone that bad for the whole game. But it's all WIFOM'y but that is easily solved by a bullet between the eyes. The best solution to it all I think.

~Sotty

I think I have an idea who cow is (or is claiming to be) and potentially why the mods would have done it that way. I'm not sure I should reveal l it at this point because I'm not sure of my guess and it might not help town to know this early, but I'd love if cow would address my previous question to him.

Are you reading the thread?

[Shadow1psc]

Can someone explain to me the case on Diddin? I don't quite get it.

[Shadow1psc]

@Magua: I see your point, but not the 3 other people voting him. He's definitely not worth voting over some of the other people here =\

[Shadow1psc]

@Mod:

xvart has 4 votes on him, not 3, and Benmage has 5 raises, ahead of Twilight Sparkle's 4.

bunnylover, chesskid, thoughts on diddin?

I just got through reading Diddin ISO, and throughout it I didn't get a single read of if he's scum or town.
I actually like his last post he made.
I believe Diddin is scumhunting or at least trying to.

This is the feeling I got, and is why I questioned the wagon on him in the first place :3

[Shadow1psc]

Sad to see GreyICE and DGB go like that, but I can't blame either of them.

Vote: Xvart

Why have people decided this Governor ability is something they want to keep in the game?

What the hell kinda scum vote?

[Shadow1psc]

Seriously, people look at Xtoxm.

To address your most recent post; GreyICE's (main) case on Xvart was almost completely misconstrued. Coupled with that blow up against DGB, and just his general scumminess this entire game is why my vote hasn't moved from him. It's like he would take one step forward, then two steps back every time I caught up.

[Shadow1psc]

ICE seemed like genuine (if bull-headed and rude) frustrated townie. I see what he pointed out with xvart as a major scumtell, and increasing the pressure seems in order.

unvote vote:xvart

... I'd like you to point out exactly the tell you're talking about.

[Shadow1psc]

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

Because you can have a town read on someone you don't trust to use the power, for one?



I like both diddin and GreyICE for lynching

This one. Implies heavily that he has a townread on GreyICE, then says he likes him for lynching.

That's what I thought. You wanna go back and read that exact post AGAIN? This is half the reason there's even a wagon on Xvart, probably not even the scum half =\

[Shadow1psc]

GreyICE is town.

Pretty sure Shadow is town.

DGB doesn't make sense. As town or as scum. I have personal experience with this from Stars Aligned II. Nulltelling her.

$10 says Hasdgfas is faking his post restriction. It's cute, but it's also nonsensical from a setup POV. Undecided on scumminess; not enough information yet. Nulltell.

Don't like Benmage. Don't like "Mow down all the VIs." Don't like DGB's #166 treating it like a towntell.

This thread requires Percy, xtomx, and Feysal posting. And more Mikujin. And...well, too many others. But let's start there.

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

THIS IS WHAT XVART WAS RESPONDING TO. HE NEVER SAID GREYICE WAS TOWN. JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE.

[Shadow1psc]

I wasn't even the first person to point it out! It was brought to light then swept under the rug when GreyICE imploded, before he had time to back-pedal, or get caught up in it.

[Shadow1psc]

@Magua: Thor665, chesskid3, GreyICE, Raivann, Xtoxm are the people that were on Xvart. Chesskid will be chesskid and is all over the place. He's not nearly as explosive as I've seen, and this doesn't put me at ease. There's a storm a brewin' on Raivann there, and I can see that for simple reasons already ponited out. dana just retracted, but his initial vote shows a lack of reading closely (again, I was not the first to point out the erroneous case against Xvart), but may not be scummy. I know I've done my fair share of skimming.

Xtoxm moved well up my list with his post(s) this morning.

[Shadow1psc]

SHOOTTTTTTTTT MOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

*points at chesskid's mouth*
*spreads arms wide*

This is gonna sound stupid, but what does it mean when you spread your aaaaaaaaarms?!

I'm pretty sure you're not asking for a hug, but is there a way to get more descriptive with your actions?

[Shadow1psc]

He did the same thing to LMP's question which is what makes me question it.

[Shadow1psc]

I don't understand why he is asking me to explain.

*shakes head*
*points at everyone*

That's a lot of pointing.

[Shadow1psc]

A dayvig target should be a secondary FoS. Who has everyone made mention of, but put in their back pocket in favor of easier people to lynch.

[Shadow1psc]

Zoraster or Xtoxm would be my votes. The latter should be clear, the former I've just gotten a gut vibe from the whole time, from his very first interaction based on my jest, to his responses to everyone else.

[Shadow1psc]

Welcome DTMaster, you got some 'splainin to do!

[Shadow1psc]

no that's stupid you dayvig people who are hard to lynch
and scum
like MoI

You can keep repeating with rhetoric that I'm scum as much as you want. If you would like to provide anything tangible that I can refute I'll address it.

Otherwise I'll just put this down as your standard trolling.

It should be obvious I support Vigging both Zoraster and Raivann in that order.

Truth be told I'd prefer for Cow simply take the shot himself and live with the consequences.

*nods head*

*holds up one finger*

*points at self*
*points at vote count*

You want to shoot one of the lynch targets?

[Shadow1psc]

DGB - you didn't unvote, also, I know you've been talking about a zoraster lynch and have been sidetracked by grey, but why the sudden change off LL?

[Shadow1psc]

A dayvig target should be a secondary FoS. Who has everyone made mention of, but put in their back pocket in favor of easier people to lynch.

I disagree with this. We should vote as-is. If someone gets close to the lynch threshold, then they should be day-vigged. Then we can look at the flip and the wagon composition and go from there.

I'm relatively certain this is what hasdgfas is saying (see what I did there?) anyways.

As such, I, for instance, would want diddin day-vigged.

that's another good way to look at it I suppose. I've never played with a dayvig, but what then happens? You're just reversing the order of things really I guess.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm relatively certain this is what hasdgfas is saying (see what I did there?) anyways.

Maybe he's telling us he has a factional NK and would like some PR claims out there before the lynch

...what?

[Shadow1psc]

If Hascow is a confirmable Dayvig with a post restriction, we have a townie for the rest of the game, unless scum really want to waste a kill on him, in which case he's spent. No offense to you, Hascow, not to make you come of as expendable, but this is win/win for town imo.

[Shadow1psc]

Hey, who called that? Yeah, Shadow

[Shadow1psc]

Also, WTH is neighboriser? The latter half worries me, and the former seems to point to friendly neighbor type deal maybe? Would there be a separate faction that doesn't know each other, and is big enough to have a neighbor role?

[Shadow1psc]

Thought: Would a dayvig action have to be submitted in the thread, like

Dayvig: Xotxm

or could it be accepted via pm?

[Shadow1psc]

Also, I get the concept of neighbor, but isn't neighbor almost always for the purpose of confirmable town(lannister) purposes? Giving scum(Stark) that ability seems... messed up.

[Shadow1psc]

Unless there's some other kind of role with a day kill. I mean, just wild speculation and extreme left field, but I like to think outside the box.

[Shadow1psc]

The only time I've seen neighbor it was a confirmable town role. It wasn't about creating a QT between two people, it was so one could simply wave at anyone to 'prove' their alignment at night. Though I guess that's the distinction between 'friendly neighbor' and 'neighbors' now?

[Shadow1psc]

It pretty much boils down to my initial question, and metaing the role name. Catelyn? neighbou

riser

?

[Shadow1psc]

Oh. I've never heard of 'isor', thus my question(s)

[Shadow1psc]

good job hasvig. Posting restriction be damned. This makes me want to kill GreyIce's slot more, but, could simply be WIFOM.

[Shadow1psc]

unraise. Raise: Magua
Unvote, vote: zoraster

Will post morre later .

... kill it.

[Shadow1psc]

His vote was scummy because he jumped on the bus with absolutely no inclination, no content, and no contribution to the game.

[Shadow1psc]

because 'look at xtoxm' implies 'hey, check out his ISO, or his lack thereof, or the friggin post that I quoted'

[Shadow1psc]

unraise. Raise: Magua
Unvote, vote: zoraster

Will post morre later .

People need tolook at that more.

[Shadow1psc]

I can get behind a cow raise.

Raise: Hascow

[Shadow1psc]

Yeah, I was thinking about that. My next logical candidate would be Raivann.

VOTE: Raivann. If you need me to elaborate, sure, but I've been fairly against him for the same reasons Xtoxm flipped scum.

[Shadow1psc]

Hm, there should have been an unvote there.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

[Shadow1psc]

I don't see the reason for raising

anyone

over someone

confirmed

. I could have raised sooner sure, but I didn't. Still makes a ton more sense than raising benmage.

[Shadow1psc]

It confirms we're not giving it to starks. What more is there to consider? Cow has a post restriction? Doesn't mean he can't take direction. Worried he won't listen? Anyone could not listen, or could use the power in the same exact capacity. If scum want to waste a NK on a confirmed target who is a spent vig with a post restriction, well, Lannister wins that bet too.

[Shadow1psc]

Well, we're of the opinion I thought that Governor isn't going to make or break this game. We have a confirmed Lannister, but how much help is he really when he can't give reasons behind his suspicions beyond quoting things and making devil horns at them? To me, it sounds like a win-win; Either cow stays alive and confirmed with the added bonus of governor should we want it, or scum waste their kill on him, and it's much better than say, if we raise someone who's also power, or we raise scum.

[Shadow1psc]

and it's much better than say, if we raise someone who's also power,

Oh haii someone asked for it ages ago to end this tangent.

or we raise scum.

Good. Put scum under the magnifying glass....Governor wont live(or ability go unused) to pull some scum lylo gg ninja.

Any scum worth 2 cents has recognized this. Just ask Sparkle.

I'm... not sure what you're saying at all in this, and I'm not sure what peoples' confidence in you is.

[Shadow1psc]

And Nexus and BL

and

Shadow/Ghostlin who dont know whats going on.

I know perfectly well what's going on.

[Shadow1psc]

For the record, I'm not opposed to lynching Zoraster. He's said some downright awful things, and it's hard to distinguish between bad/anti-town play and scum play, whereas from Raivann I get a a more thorough scum vibe.

[Shadow1psc]

unvote vote Raivann

we'll see but this is :

The user named "Song of Ice and Fire" got replaced out of a ASoIaF game. That is not a good sign for that slot.

Exactly. Why would someone named that get replaced? She was obviously stoked for this game, but got caught as scum early.

lol...horrible.

This was directed at zoraster:

Are you reading the thread?

I agree.. .. lead wagon go!

unvote vote zoraster

These were back to back in your ISO. And then you don't really do anything else to further the Zoraster case. Your votes are flimsy and you want to talk about the quality of players (on a wagon you were on at one point too?)

[Shadow1psc]

Well, we're of the opinion I thought that Governor isn't going to make or break this game. We have a confirmed Lannister, but how much help is he really when he can't give reasons behind his suspicions beyond quoting things and making devil horns at them? To me, it sounds like a win-win; Either cow stays alive and confirmed with the added bonus of governor should we want it, or scum waste their kill on him, and it's much better than say, if we raise someone who's also power, or we raise scum.

This is like the 4th or 5th time that Shadow has implied that non-Stark = confirmed Lannister. Do you not see the fail in that line of thought Shadow?

What's the precedence of a scum dayvig? That seems more fail than your line of thought.

[Shadow1psc]

These were back to back in your ISO. And then you don't really do anything else to further the Zoraster case. Your votes are flimsy and you want to talk about the quality of players (on a wagon you were on at one point too?)

The vote on Raivann was for an idiotic comment. Because my vote was being useless..but it was when I was over 10 pages behind.... While I continued to read I noticed drastic differences in his game last time compared to this one. 9Where he was scum)

The quick switch was due to a superior idiotic comment by zoraster....

Do something with zoraster? There's 3 days left. There's Raivann or Zoraster. Thats it. Zoraster is the better pick.

You probably dont have the experience here yet to understand what I mean by quality of players. But those like DTM Thor Sparkle and LL can't not vote zoraster now.

You say 3 days like that isn't enough time to type up a paragraph explaining why Zoraster is overall scummier, and it doesn't looking like Raivann is hoping on the easy lynch to save himself.

[Shadow1psc]

It's less about who he's voting, and more about how he hopped, and the lack of reasoning therein. That vote could have been anyone really. It's just more obvious because he hopped on the wagon that has the chance of keeping him from being a lynch target. Irony really.

[Shadow1psc]

Would it be better if he paraphrased someone else's reasoning?

Look at zorasters atrocious reasoning for voting him.

He did, actually. I just don't get the feeling of genuine scum hunting, despite the original crappy vote. When he finally showed up to defend it, it was very lackluster, like he took the easy, hide in the mob stance. Xtoxm almost pulled off the exact same thing. Both look terrible, yes, I just happen to think Raivann looks more like genuine scum here. If people aren't going to jump on it, Zoraster is the obvious second choice here, but something doesn't feel right about it to me.

[Shadow1psc]

Zoraster should at least claim at this point.

[Shadow1psc]

At this point, it would seem to me we test his claim, rather than lynching him. Either way, we have scum tomorrow? I mean, we could lynch him tonight and if he's telling the truth, we've lost town and a day. If we test the 'guilty' of sorts, we get scum, and don't lose a day, but if he's lying outright we still lose a day. I mean, no matter which way we go, we could end up losing a day. A lot of people have expressed interest in lynching LL, is it worth testing LL?

[Shadow1psc]

@MoI - I certainly haven't forgotten about the slot...

[Shadow1psc]

Petry, and by SoS, I think Petyr happens to be Lannister until the very end.

[Shadow1psc]

Damnit, you even got my spelling it wrong.

Petyr.

[Shadow1psc]

all right, all right. so that apparently didn't work. I shall now claim my actual role for giggles. Once I claimed this, I was likely lynched but more importantly it would be harder to lynch LL.

I am Oberyn Martell, Self Aligned. I want to avenge Elia's death. I win when Gregor Clegane (Locke Lamora) is lynched and I am on that lynch. If he dies by anything other than a lynch with me on it and I'm alive, then I join the Lannister cause.

That's it. That's all the power I have.

Ta-da. If you want to lynch a potential town player who has every reason to play for the town, go for it.

Ugh, this still doesn't help you dolt, Gregor should be Lannister aligned as well, what the hell?!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zoraster

[Shadow1psc]

Why would we trade one for someone who's admittedly not already town-aligned? For all we know Gregor is also some kind of power role, like BG, or another Vig or some crap. Whereas you just sealed your fate because you effectively claimed 'nilla lyncher.

[Shadow1psc]

I didn't see chess' vote before posting, but that should still be L-1

[Shadow1psc]

xD!

Ok, so not a bad night. We lost CK and another Stark aligned Diddin. This town seems to be right on the money with their suspicions, and I haven't forgotten my case against

VOTE: Raivann

I find it odd that LL wasn't killed, as he's pretty much confirmed Lannister now right? Unless Zoraster decided to bluff at the end there (though tbh he'd have no reason to, being self aligned...)

Glad to be back.

[Shadow1psc]

Flavor says that Zoraster wasn't bluffing at the end.

hasdgfas and Locke are confirmed town, as far as I'm concerned.
Shadow remains a strong town read.
GreyICE was a townread, but DTMaster, meh, not so much at this point.

I highly doubt Raivann is Stark. diddin rode her lynch over Zoraster's for a long time (till one hour before lynch, as it turns out). I could see him jumping onto a buddy's wagon at the end, but not jumping from a buddy's wagon if it was obvious someone else was going to be lynched.

Actually, looking at the wagon on diddin yesterday, I am disinclined to believe that any of Raivann, MagnaofIllusion, xvart, or Zdenek are Stark.

So:

VOTE: Twilight Sparkle

Nominate: Mikujin

Diddin's death seems to imply a third faction, something that was brought up before. We could have a Vig, sure, you've been pretty analytical Magua, what do you think there?

[Shadow1psc]

Ill be in here later tonight, after work .....don't rush anything or do anything stupid till I get in. We have some very obvious things to cover.

How would we have ever known not to quick lynch as soon as day started with out you

[Shadow1psc]

Re: Thor on Bunny - So, you get town points for jumping on the third party lynch, and you get town points for not jumping on it?

[Shadow1psc]

@ Twilight Sparkle; This game is still huge, I'm still intimidated. If you look at my day 1, I wasn't really active for the first part as I ready a lot more than I posted. Also, I don't tend to post on weekends unless it's something important. I may be able to read along, but I pretty much just have my iPhone on weekends. As far as my case on Raivann, I'll admit you could probably call it glorified gut for exhibiting nearly the same behavior I pegged Xtoxm for, which are content-less votes. Scum often tends to throw down a vote to allay suspicion when under fire themselves, on an existing wagon, without contributing to it. His later 'catch-up' post did little to appease my suspicion of him, specifically because it just didn't seem genuine. I'm not convinced Diddin's flip clears Raivann (or anyone on the Zoraster wagon pre claim). They were effectively burying someone that actually was not scum (rather, was not informed minority). I still believe Raivann jumped on any town (or who scum would have believed to be town) player, but chose the opposing, easy lynch wagon to save himself. When you're town, you will still do this, but you'll usually address it appropriately, not in the way Raivann did.

As far as other lynch candidates... well, DGB still seems off, and something about Thor doesn't sit well with me. I'm mostly taking in a huge playerbase that I've never encountered before, so I don't know what is or isn't the norm for people here. I could post one-liners for everyone asking 'is this normal behavior?' but that often gets seen as content less fluff, and meta can devolve into mislynches rather easily anyway. So I'm looking for scummyness, albeit quietly. I'm still catching up on posts made this weekend.

[Shadow1psc]

I did not see your "we're not lynching Raivann" yet. Fair enough, my next FoS is Thor.

UNVOTE: Raivann
VOTE: Thor

[Shadow1psc]

Town don't actually need to be caught up to converse on the issues of the day. Scum, though, need to be to say anything useful. I can't imagine anyone reading to page eight and thinking that who they think the town/scum are matters at Smurfing all. The interpretation that is easily the most sensible to me is that Thor-town feels obliged to make his “catch-up's” wall-quoting affairs, but doesn't have the energy to do it. He doesn't want to flake out, so he's 'playing' in real time while promising himself he'll make that big catch-up sometime soon.

Strangely enough I actually think mine manages to make *exactly* as much sense. Go figure.

Also - serious question - you're accusing Song of "lurking" until she "flaked"? Does that really make sense to you?

This is soooooo terrible. you basically admitted that You haven't bothered catching up. While this may be a monumental task (one you accepted when agreeing to replace in to a game this big with this much activity), it's absolutely necessary. You just admitted to one of the most scummy behaviors you can be.

[Shadow1psc]

Twilight, response to my response of your post?

[Shadow1psc]

I'm here. This game moves at an intimidating speed, with quite a lot of players, but it feels like I'm just watching the same 5 people talk. I don't like how Benmage, unconfirmed, was both given governor and is now leading lynches, outright denying lynches of admittedly scummy candidates/players. I get that we shouldn't end day early and we need to promote discussion, but that doesn't mean we also can't grill the people we find most suspicious, and that they shouldn't be ruled out as lynch candidates. You're saying a lot we can save them for tomorrow while prodding other people to lynch, but again, why wouldn't we be bringing them to the forefront and dealing with them now, or at least concurrently? Direction is fine, but no one is confirmed. Hascow is the closest we've got (scum dayvig? I doubt it), and LL looks decent enough simply because of Zoraster.

Sorry, but this all stems from 'Raivann still looks bad', and I think needs much more pressure without hiding behind an equal/opposing lynch like day 1.

[Shadow1psc]

Why would I need a case?

Because the only reason you've got right now for calling me scum is conditional.

Why did you unvote here?

Because I think that Benmage is probably town, and if he's a PR, then he knows what he's doing.
Actually, answering that question made me realize that he probably wouldn't have a problem with:

unnominate nominate: Setael

vote: Bunnylover

What does him being a PR have to do with anything? If he had damning evidence (or clearing) there would be less "we can put so and so on the backburner" or more "we're nailing so and so, end of discussion".

[Shadow1psc]

What does him being a PR have to do with anything? If he had damning evidence (or clearing) there would be less "we can put so and so on the backburner" or more "we're nailing so and so, end of discussion".

Umm...not really. If he was a PR with a clear, he wouldn't be outing himself or his clear at this juncture, and this would be a good way of keeping us from lynching that clear. He may want another night of investigations before giving us his info. Then again, he may not be, and I might just be throwing off scum right now. Either way, I can't figure out which it is, so I'm going to trust my townread and hope to simply incapacitate my main scumread for the night while lynching my secondary scum read.

Point being, there's nothing to indicate he's PR, and my question on your post I just quoted. What does him being PR have to do with anything when there's no such inclination or claim, let alone a clear on himself.

[Shadow1psc]

If DGB is scum, does that retroactively make us feel better about DTM?

[Shadow1psc]

Proddodge. Reading and not commenting until I have 100% understanding of gamestate like good robot.

That's a good robot. Read up.

[Shadow1psc]

Chesskid had soft claimed Tywin Lannister, by saying his character had been the Hand before. The scum may have believed him and thought that Tywin would be a power role. If Chesskid did that on purpose, it was actually well done... he managed to draw a night kill, saving someone else and avoiding his own potential policy lynch.

This is when I started to get really bad vibes about Feysal. I think it was LMP that hit the nail on the head by commenting that it looks like that Feysal knows Chess was killed by scum. The tone of this, congratulating Chess, just feels off. Like he has inside knowledge of what went down over night.
~Sotty[/quote]

This is a pretty simple conclusion... unless you're trying to tell us you think Stark killed one of their own, it's pretty obvious CK was the scum night kill choice. I don't think Feysal's conclusion is anywhere near far-fetched.

[Shadow1psc]

A Dance With Dragons to be published July 12, 2011.

REJOICE!

NO. UNACCEPTABLE. I will not believe the book is out until I'm fucking holding it. BULL. I'll keep not getting my hopes up tyvm.

In related news, attacking Feysal for inferring CK being a night kill when he soft claimed Tyrion is stupid. Yes, CK is somewhat of a detriment to town if left alive, but he was not his usually anti-town self day 1. On top of potentially being power, I don't see why this was a bad choice at all. When CK isn't being a derp about how he acts, his reads tend to be decent, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was on to at least one other Stark.

[Shadow1psc]

Fuck it.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

ohai, vig.

[Shadow1psc]

Fuck it.

STARKS DIDN'T KILL CHESSKID, I DID. Discuss.

If that's true, btw, your attack of feysal is even moooooore off base.

[Shadow1psc]

It's not, but if you're fishing for things you know aren't true at this point, there's something to be said about the validity of the rest of your statements.

[Shadow1psc]

Holy wall explosion.

[Shadow1psc]

The problem with that platform, LMP, is that until one knows where the kills came from, it's not unheard of to take a stance like Feysal did. Or even waffle on it when presented with alternate information. At face value, Diddin could have been a vig kill and Chess the Stark kill. Or, Chess the Stark kill and Diddin the (Stannis/Dani/whatever faction) kill. Either is perfectly believable (that there are one, or two teams), and I could see either being argued for in that regard. Maybe he's crumbling too hard, or maybe he has a one-track mind. I don't think it's the tell you're making it out to be, especially now that we know it's much more probably that there are 2 scum teams, and Feysal has been more in favor of the notion of one.

You've described yourself that it could be either situation (and that he could be scum in either), but I don't find the way he waffled indicative of either, just narrow minded.

[Shadow1psc]

Sine Twilight Sparkle is town, there is one scum here:

Twilight Sparkle (5) MagnaofIllusion,

Benmage

,

Raivann

, Zdenek,

Hasdgfas

I just want to remind everyone.

♪One of these things is not like the other...♫

[Shadow1psc]

No flavor paraphrase either? If you're gonna claim you might as well claim right...

[Shadow1psc]

I thought Littlefinger was a dirty traitor?

Meta on that, with this being SoS is slightly dangerous. His intent was not revealed until late in the book.

[Shadow1psc]

Hey Shadow, have you thought about not being 'intimidated' and doing some scumhunting?

I've thought about it. Been reading. It's a lot of huge giant walls of text from people, which makes me think there is a lot of town fighting with town while scum lie low (yes I realize I'm guilty of 'lying low'). Perfect example is Thor escaping into obscurity, then only coming back with the occasional 'wah, still catching up... almost caught up... almost caught up...' (etc).

[Shadow1psc]

Hey Shadow, have you thought about not being 'intimidated' and doing some scumhunting?

I've thought about it. Been reading. It's a lot of huge giant walls of text from people, which makes me think there is a lot of town fighting with town while scum lie low (yes I realize I'm guilty of 'lying low'). Perfect example is Thor escaping into obscurity, then only coming back with the occasional 'wah, still catching up... almost caught up... almost caught up...' (etc).

Scum can make walls of text too.

Absolutely, but it's easier to spot 'scum walls' (that are attacks, not defenses mind you) because they tend to have much less content/much more stretching.

[Shadow1psc]

Without getting too heavy into meta, voyeur sounds like a role that maybe... Varys shoulda had, but I'd be willing to say Varys could also be tracker/any other sort of renamed variant.

[Shadow1psc]

To elaborate on that, Petyr never seemed like the sneaking type, more the type to stab you in the back from the front, if you know what I mean.

[Shadow1psc]

To elaborate on that, Petyr never seemed like the sneaking type, more the type to stab you in the back from the front, if you know what I mean.

What books are you reading? Petyr is the master of the game of thrones.

There's a difference between the phrase 'being sneaky' and the act of sneaking around physically. I would attribute the former to people like Petyr and Tyrion, the latter to Varys. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here.

[Shadow1psc]

RE: Feysal on Zoraster;
Anything done here is null. As scum OR town, Zoraster was not partnered with Feysal. Feysal not being around or not voting Zoraster means... nothing really.

RE: Petyr meta;
Lets take a step back for a moment and look at the broad picture.

How do the Lannisters see Petyr?

They see him as Lannister aligned. Is he a Stark? One could argue. Scum spy/traitor role? Possibly. Any three of those possibilities are present. The name tells us nothing, other than sending us in WIFOM circles over this particular book which from beginning to end sees Petyr switch sides over 1000 pages, incredibly subtly, and fairly out of the spotlight with other events going on. We know his actions and intentions, but do Lannisters? Probably not, save Varys.

[Shadow1psc]

I've also seen traitor work two different ways (different site) in two different themes;

Starcraft II Mafia; Samir Duran was a recruitable traitor. All scum had to do was say the word, and he came over to their side (could not be recruited n1).
Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia; Weigraf was a traitor that didn't know he could be a traitor. Scum had to figure out who he was to recruit him.

Point being, what is the precedent for such a role on this site?

[Shadow1psc]

Why is Thor still not.voting?

and yes still Thor. Shouldn't he have at least put a vote down by now?

What part of 'I'll vote tonight or tomorrow' is so confusing to you?

I actually think Magua looks uber town and outlined the Feysal issue very well. That doesn't look like a scum fakeclaim unless your belief is that Feysal is a raving idiot of scum. I don't believe that personally.
I don't want to get over on Twilight because even after my re-read I still am not that impressed by the case (I'm still not sure where MoI's uber case on her is) and I actually think the absence of two heads does dramatically affect a hydra because I've been in a similar situation and am aware what it can do - the sheer fact they've picked up their game now that they say the heads are back helps verify this to me.

The Nexus drive seems to be similar to the Thor drive, confirmation bias combined with lurkage = scum. Meh.

Vote Raivaan

Hup, hup, hup. Let's move them doggies.

My case on him is 'gut' also just his antics towards the end of day today where he's gone into a mud slinging whirlwind and is basically trying to make Day 2 about a lurker vote as far as I can tell.

Thinly veiled defense of Feysal? It's WIFOM to consider ones motivations for claiming petyr as scum. Maybe that's the beauty of it, claiming something so outlandish that you don't expect scum to do it, therefor accomplishing what he set out to do.... how very Petyr like indeed.

[Shadow1psc]

Why so many people keep saying I should have targeted Benmage or hasdgfas, whether as watcher or voyeur, is beyond me. Benmage is in no way confirmed, and his contributions to scumhunting have so far been minimal. As for hasdgfas, he may be confirmed non-Stark, but he is also post restricted. Few people are even trying to make sense of what he is saying, and I've seen more people misunderstand him than interpret him correctly. Neither of them is a serious threat to the scum. Locke however is practically confirmed non-Stark and he can talk normally. If I were to target an obvious town read, it would be him.

And as I've already explained, targeting a town read as voyeur is pointless. Most likely I would learn nothing, or I would learn that my target had been killed, which I would learn anyway from the morning post. If I was lucky I might pick the same target as a doctor, and what would that tell me? That there is a doctor, and he is not totally incompetent with town reads. It would tell me that my target was probably town, which I would've thought anyway. In other words, it would tell me nothing new or useful.

However, if I managed to target someone who was investigated, that would tell me plenty of things. If the following day no one stood up and claimed the investigation, and no one seriously pushed the target, that would tell me that the investigator had apparently received a town result. Had Kast been investigated last night, I would now know that the investigation result was town, since no one has pushed him all day. If someone had claimed the investigation and started to push Kast, I could've supported that someone.

Simply put, I picked a target that I had a null read on, and some people had found scummy. I believed I could learn something far more useful from that than from targeting any townish player.

By your own logic why wouldn't you target LL? Near-confirmed town, the doc was sure to target him or Benmage... you just contradicted your own logic.

[Shadow1psc]

The additional problem with following 'you watched x and x was y'd' is to assume that we can't have a scum y. There's way too many variables with a role like Voyeur, you're like a secondary confirm. You should have targeted an obvtown just in case it came down to someone claiming to have visited them with z role. You could have stepped forward and said "No, only Y was done to X".

[Shadow1psc]

It's ok ghostlin, it's still fun. Just join me and Magua and Benmage. We gonna lynch some scum!
We'll leave you the hammer!

What the hell kinda post?

Seriously, are people watching Raivann? It's like he's going "Nyah nyah, I'm not gonna be lynched today, I don't even have to try."

[Shadow1psc]

Ugh.

Nominate: Raivann

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Feysal

I don't think TS is scum. Feysal could be running a scum gambit, and has looked real flip-floppy with his logic, as has been noted quite a few times. It's not exactly win/win, but if he's telling the truth and we lose a voyeur, it's not the biggest deal. I left my vote on Thor because there were plenty of votes on Feysal, but now that the deadline is within reach, I've no qualms putting him at L-1 as he's out the door it looks like.

[Shadow1psc]

What happens if we end the day in less than a week?

VOTE: Raivann

If this needs to be explained, you haven't been reading.

[Shadow1psc]

@Hasdgfas: Reason for your TS vote?

I would like LMP to say who he shot before anyone else says something about last night.

>_____>

[Shadow1psc]

shot someone else who didn't die which should've been your first post today if true, or shot no one which *also* should've been your first post today if true

I'm not sure either of these statements are true. Why should I claim these things if it helps the scum to know the answers and doesn't help us?

Why would it help them but not us? Scum already know whether or not they shot xvart. Scum already know they didn't shoot Magna. We all know there's still the unexplained N1 diddin kill.

I don't see the "secret information" you're afraid of having scum have here.

Occam's Razor - LMP is simply the scum sending in the kills

[Shadow1psc]

I'm still alive after stating that the mod tells me player's alignments at night? Go figure.

Sadly, the mod was silent.

Trying to WIFOM your own existence? I'm pretty sure you know why you're alive.

[Shadow1psc]

@Kast - I hate that Raivann keeps getting a free pass, but if you're claiming you've got Zdenek dead to rights, and TS (who looks even more town now) has built their solid case around him, I'm pretty inclined to believe that is a great direction to take. If it takes pressure to get it out of him, I'll be glad to help;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zdenek

Raivann is going to lay low some more and not contribute I'm sure. I'm a little more wary of LMP based on the number of kills remaining consistent; We also have not seen the revelation of a third faction yet, something I find interesting considering 3 stark flips. I maintain LMP could have easily claimed vig to cover his tracks shooting Chess, and claimed jailed (why would this even be pertinent if you were one shot anyway/would you be notified if you were jailed...?) and have someone else send the NK (as scum). Could have been jailed as SK, the only reason to have mentioned being the target of the now dead jailer was if he had attempted to shoot someone and it got stopped (but claimed out of shots to us). SK seems like the more unlikely choice.

Anyway, on the topic of Zdenek, name claiming, then saying "I'm not gonna claim my power, it's anti-town" is ass, and anti-town in itself. If we hit discussion limit deadline, you get nkilled, and you were at a table with scum, that would destroy anything you worked for. If someone has evidence v. you (and a staggeringly huge case), you best come forward, with your information, and be believable.

p-edit: well then. That's... weird.

[Shadow1psc]

I am Tywin Lannister. I become night kill immune if Tyrion Lannister dies.

a.) why weren't you pushing a chesskid lynch d1

b.) why did you wait on claiming this

c.)

Point a) He was also town, possibly town power.
Point b) Valid. I'd like to know, you'd be untouchable.
Point c) lawl.

If anything, you should have hinted at this harder day 2, or outright said it, if not breadcrumbed something along the lines of "CK is totally town" after his name claim.

[Shadow1psc]

CK didn't outright claim, but you should have gotten it if you are Tywin. In Storm of Swords I'm pretty sure there weren't many people who are still alive that 'used to be' hand.

[Shadow1psc]

DGB - have you contributed anything in the way of real discussion or original thought? Just wondering. Not like I'm the paragon of scum hunting yet in this game, but

c'mon

.

[Shadow1psc]

Thor, we did this dance quite awhile ago with Hascow. Something tells me you didn't really read the thread...

[Shadow1psc]

Vote: Shadow1psc

Discuss.

I would like to subscribe to your compelling argument.

[Shadow1psc]

I am Tywin Lannister. I become night kill immune if Tyrion Lannister dies.

a.) why weren't you pushing a chesskid lynch d1

b.) why did you wait on claiming this

c.)

Point a) He was also town, possibly town power.
Point b) Valid. I'd like to know, you'd be untouchable.
Point c) lawl.

If anything, you should have hinted at this harder day 2, or outright said it, if not breadcrumbed something along the lines of "CK is totally town" after his name claim.

Quoting for those too lazy to buy in to LL's game. I'm not sure what you're getting at either.

[Shadow1psc]

Point B also goes along with "why didn't you play out loud/obvtown/hint power d2 once you knew you were unkillable, or outright claim power."

[Shadow1psc]

Vote: Shadow1psc[/] I love this wagon. The reason I thought shadow was town early was because I thought his post wherehe said aww schucks i'm lannister. When I read my pm I was like ok im scum lannister but whose my scumbuddies. But yeah that's not really what shadow was saying.

That's... exactly what I was saying. What?

[Shadow1psc]

Vote: Shadow1psc[/] I love this wagon. The reason I thought shadow was town early was because I thought his post wherehe said aww schucks i'm lannister. When I read my pm I was like ok im scum lannister but whose my scumbuddies. But yeah that's not really what shadow was saying.

That's... exactly what I was saying. What?

No you were saying you've never been scum and wanted to be
The more I think about it the faker it sounds.

If that's your only reason for voting me, and only did so because someone else did, you're either a terrible player or.... no wait, you're just terrible, town or scum.

[Shadow1psc]

Resorting to insults, Shadow? How about constructing a decent defence?

Scum who are caught usually resort to insults. Convince me you're town within your next post or I'll vote you.

If you really need me to explain why I'm insulting Raivann's play at this point, you haven't been following along very well. I'd like LL to elaborate, not sure where he went. Let me word my last post as not an insult, maybe Raivann will understand it better;

Raivann - Do you have any reason at all for voting me that doesn't involve something that happened 50 pages ago? That was discussed and is generally believed to be a town tell? If so, why did it take you that long to point it out? What other evidence do you have to support this? What other negative points might you have against me?

Which brings me to: Glorified, hidden OMGUS, because I've been on him

all game

for not contributing, for coasting by when Benmage gave him a free pass d2, doing absolutely no scum hunting, and ultimately sheeping. Would you have placed that vote had LL not? Probably not Raivann, though it's moot to argue now that it has happened. Anyway, go on and prove me wrong Raivann.

@Nexus again - I'm not worried about proving myself town, because if you seriously think I'm scummier than Raivann, you haven't been reading. Make me think

you're

town.

[Shadow1psc]

That's nice for you Thor.

Likewise, Shadow, I'm not too worried about proving myself.

You're right, Raivann is still scummy, but you're the one who's resorted to insults. That's pretty classless play.

It's frustrating when I've been highlighting it all game, and he does something like that (which btw, is the same offense I caught Xtoxm for in his short play), and no one really listens.

[Shadow1psc]

Says the guy with < 50 posts

Also, I don't think I quoted a wiki term once?

[Shadow1psc]

Oh, I thought you meant quoting as in like, defining terms for other people. Yes I use terms when needed, I've never understood why people feel the need to point this out when anybody does it (and I'm certainly not the only one to have). And yeah, I post short quips. The fewer words you can get your point across in, the better. Otherwise you end up with fluff.

I'd say my first batch of posts were related to general d1 randomness and getting acclimated to this many people. Then my voice dies out as it gets washed over. I could scream "Lynch Raivann" every post and I'd still be put in the background. When people have an obvtown read on me AND are content to discard my thoughts for 'bigger fish to fry', it's not as much incentive to keep stressing things. I contribute where I feel I have something of merit to say.

[Shadow1psc]

* IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHY THE VC IS GREEN WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO BE FRIENDS.

[Shadow1psc]

Your summary of the game looks correct, and really should enforce the belief that Thor is scummy. Yes there was a lot of material to cover, but even less so than Andrius just did, and I'm quite convinced he didn't read it all, just skimmed. This is a dumb move as town or scum, but a much more likely move from scum, who don't have to worry so much about analyzing every little thing said, and can coast.

[Shadow1psc]

Your summary of the game looks correct, and really should enforce the belief that Thor is scummy. Yes there was a lot of material to cover, but even less so than Andrius just did, and I'm quite convinced he didn't read it all, just skimmed. This is a dumb move as town or scum, but a much more likely move from scum, who don't have to worry so much about analyzing every little thing said, and can coast.

I want to see if I'm reading this right:
- Thor took a long time (many days) to complete his reread of some 40 pages or so.
- Andrius took less than 24 hours to complete his reread of some 60 pages or so.
- Scum are more likely to skim; town are more likely to actually read.
- Thor is scum, Andrius is town.

Do I have your argument correct?

It's more about the way they came back and presented/commented on the information. I still don't feel like Thor actually read the majority of the game, even after he admitted for the first long while that he only read the first 10 pages, and said he was going to go back and read. When he claimed to have read more... he didn't really have much to say, not even a list of reads, and just kinda went back into business as usual. I realize not everyone has the time to read 40+ pages and make a commentary in 24 hours, but it makes me feel better about Andrius for having put in the effort, and scowl at Thor for not having put in the same effort replacing into a game this size with that amount of content.

[Shadow1psc]

Agree that Zdenek can wait for later.

TS is obviously keen to keep me on their suspect list to bring up later for some reason, one which I have yet to fathom out. Any reason for that one, TS?

A remarkably scummy post following:

@Kast - I hate that Raivann keeps getting a free pass, but if you're claiming you've got Zdenek dead to rights, and TS (who looks even more town now) has built their solid case around him, I'm pretty inclined to believe that is a great direction to take. If it takes pressure to get it out of him, I'll be glad to help;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zdenek

Raivann is going to lay low some more and not contribute I'm sure. I'm a little more wary of LMP based on the number of kills remaining consistent; We also have not seen the revelation of a third faction yet, something I find interesting considering 3 stark flips. I maintain LMP could have easily claimed vig to cover his tracks shooting Chess, and claimed jailed (why would this even be pertinent if you were one shot anyway/would you be notified if you were jailed...?) and have someone else send the NK (as scum). Could have been jailed as SK, the only reason to have mentioned being the target of the now dead jailer was if he had attempted to shoot someone and it got stopped (but claimed out of shots to us). SK seems like the more unlikely choice.

Anyway, on the topic of Zdenek, name claiming, then saying "I'm not gonna claim my power, it's anti-town" is ass, and anti-town in itself. If we hit discussion limit deadline, you get nkilled, and you were at a table with scum, that would destroy anything you worked for. If someone has evidence v. you (and a staggeringly huge case), you best come forward, with your information, and be believable.

p-edit: well then. That's... weird.

First off, this vote looks like a blatant attempt to seize an opportunity for an easy lynch on someone he knows isn't scum; he doesn't even wait to see how Kast's result plays out, he just drops his top suspect and votes for Zdenek whilst acting like it's a real wrench to not lynch Raivann. He doesn't even commit to calling Zdenek scum, he puts the vote down to pressuring more info out of him (which he hasn't removed since Zdenek claimed more info).

*

Then he continues his crusade to push LMP-scum based on the CK kill. If he genuinely didn't believe that LMP was vig then he'd be trying to lynch LMP first, not Raivann. Instead he's just trying to cast doubt on LMP's claim at every available opportunity but parking his vote on easier wagons. His reaction to Zdenek's more detailed claim is notable for its lack of thrust; he's spending his time arguing what the pro-town approach would be, but he's not calling Zdenek obv-scum or even stating whether he actually thinks Zdenek is scum or town that played the role badly.

** Then we get this gem:

I am Tywin Lannister. I become night kill immune if Tyrion Lannister dies.

a.) why weren't you pushing a chesskid lynch d1

b.) why did you wait on claiming this

c.)

Point a) He was

also town

, possibly town power.
Point b) Valid. I'd like to know, you'd be untouchable.
Point c) lawl.

If anything, you should have hinted at this harder day 2, or outright said it, if not breadcrumbed something along the lines of "CK is totally town" after his name claim.

"Also town"?! So Shadow thinks Zdenek is town

***...but he still has his vote parked there. Then there's the fact that Shadow really shouldnt be answering this for Zdenek; it's more like 'hey, I can think of a pro-town reason for that, give me townpoints'! It completely contradicts his original stated motive of voting Zdenek to pressure more info out of him. In fact, everything Shadow's said to or about Zdenek since he claimed indicates he doesn't really think he's scum.

Alright, lets break this down LL:

*

It was a blatant attempt to press information out of someone who said "I'm not gonna claim, its anti-town", when Kast claimed damning information on him. I've expressed several times why I keep having to move off Raivann (who I sat on d2, despite benmage, and will be switching back to in a sec).

**

I didn't realize discussion concerning LMP was out of the question. I don't have a definitive position on him, a one-shot vig claim is something that will sort itself out if he's scum. I'm of the belief Zdenek played the role badly, yes, which brings us to...

***

This is either bad reading comprehension or misrepresentation at its finest; the 'also' qualifier is in no way an indication of my read on Zdenek. That was myself pointing out to TP that Zdenek shouldn't have been trying to lynch Chess, as it should have been inferred he was tyrion, who as it also turns out, was town. So that's not also as in, 'too', lets try this LL:

TS: You should have been trying to lynch CK
Shadow: He was also town, ya know.

Implying, he certainly could have been town and it's easy to infer Tyrion is Lannister aligned, and no one should have been pushing that lynch.

Finally, yes,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

The wagon actually has steam, I've made my repeated case on this and why he needs to go.

[Shadow1psc]

unvote. Vote: Nexus

scummy wagon hop.

Do you do anything besides vote for the people who vote for you?

[Shadow1psc]

In other news, Andrius' catch up post would've been more use if he'd commented on everyone thoroughly.

Is this for fucking real...?

NEXUS before posting ends lets hear detailed opinions on everyone in the game and your ranging view on them from town to scum. THOROUGHLY

It should be easy, since you've already read the game and must have great insight readily available and easy to describe to us poor lost souls.

And yet, no. That's not my style, and I'm not changing it to appease you. Sorry dear.

If you want a full claim, ask nicely. I'm not claiming with 3 votes on me though.

How do you not see Raivann as scummy enough to be lynched?

Yeah, if you're not gonna put the effort into it, why should someone else at your behest?

[Shadow1psc]

SHADOW for what we are trying to achieve before entering the wedding.

Vote Nexus.

Yeah, I can get in on this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

[Shadow1psc]

Er, wow,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nexus

Wooo friday.

[Shadow1psc]

Uh, I'm not sure why Margaery would be a roleblocker.

[Shadow1psc]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

Well, I don't like the claim. I'm not sure where you're getting the absolute town read from unless you buy into that. Roleblocker, however, is something that will resolve itself if he's lying anyway (also; could not be scumblocker, could be an entirely different targeting role). I see no indication that Nexus couldn't be Stark aligned, I'm not sure where the comment about another scum team came in. Yes we could be dealing with two, but this becomes more likely as time goes on, something that will sort itself out as well.

[Shadow1psc]

@Shadow - a jailkeeper and a roleblocker serve semi-duplicated purposes within a scum team - so to have only one scum team and both of those roles seems unlikely, whereas if we see a second scumteam then Nexus could very likely be the role they got to equal the jailkeeper on the other scumteam.

Think of it as though we just got a second rolecop claim - probably only one would be town, yes? Same basic logic.

@TS - I thought the whole point of the morse code was to allow claims to happen during the wedding - what's the difference of allowing them then or now? Just the time?

It's less about the role imo. If he's scum, he's not a roleblocker. though, it'd be a stupid claim with a role cop, unless he's dead tonight. Like I said, and why I'm not voting him, it'll sort out sooner than later.

@TS - why would we not use claims like that now. Seriously, what if Raivann is scum and sat with scum buddies? Why are we going to go through that huge, huge amount of trouble when he could just claim out loud now and everyone could discuss it since

he's a leading suspect

.

[Shadow1psc]

Hey TS.
Explanations of the morse-code thing would be GREAT.

Also, I think it'd be a worthy idea to try and convey the neighborhoods too. Not top priority, but if we could do that it might be helpful.

Don't worry about this.

[Shadow1psc]

Not talking about the morse code thing, sorry

[Shadow1psc]

Most people seem to understand the mechanic but there's been a few "almost there"s that I'd like to avoid. So here is a definitive example based on the books.

Lady Lysa accuses Tyrion of murder (and thus is the first vote on the wagon). The wagon is successful and would otherwise "lynch" Tyrion. However, Tyrion calls for trial by combat. He nominates Bronn to champion him. Lady Lysa nominates Ser Vardis Egen to be her champion.

Ser Vardis Egen and Bronn duel to the death (secret vote). If Bronn loses the duel and dies, Tyrion is found guilty and is executed.
If Ser Vardis Egen loses the duel and dies, Tyrion is found innocent and is released.
Lady Lysa is not on trial and thus is in no risk of death. Although she is at high risk of being a stupid crazy bitch who deserves to die.

Ok, so given this clarification, first on the wagon simply gets to choose who duels scum's champion. Scum is obviously going to pick a townie, or someone who looks town, whereas first on wagon gets to pick Towns. Obviously, we have an awesome opportunity in taking two scumspects, lynching either, and nominating the other as a champion. Because of WIFOM, we can't be certain who scum would pick to champion them, so killing a random town to get to a lynch like that may not be the best course of action currently. Obviously, it seems that we need to have Benmage choose a champion who town (the majority player) can easily vote dead. This gives the other scum a day, but whatever there.

Still catching up past this post.

[Shadow1psc]

Caught up. I think Thor is a great option here. Not entirely convinced on Setael either after the wedding shenanigans, but that seems to implicate Thor more at this point. DGB/Pops/Thor, can anyone comment on Bunnylover's presence during the Wedding?

[Shadow1psc]

I had a scum read on greyice, and DTM wasn't the shining example of town either.

@ Thor: Here's the problem I had during the wedding: There was clear misrepping going on somewhere. You guys are now going to argue in thread about who said what, and why you sent your morse code messages the way you did. I'm more inclined to raise an eyebrow at Thor for his voting and having no real reason for it, as well as misrepping Benmage's stance on the Raivann wagon. If I had to guess, I'd say scum were probably more inclined to stay quiet during their QTs except someone who needed to translate things in the main thread, and maybe push some agendas. I'm a bit surprised Dana was quiet, and I was wondering if Hascow's restriction carried into the QT (I imagine it did), but I set up all the tables in such a way that there should have been town in each, and I was looking for the first sign of tomfoolery with the morse code thing, and possible misrepping.

Meaning, I expected scum to take the translating reigns for the table, maybe in hopes that said person could get away with saying things unchecked by their table. Turns out, Seteal was reading and responding too eh?

[Shadow1psc]

In what world do scum get a daykill Andrius?

[Shadow1psc]

I'm just saying - if your example of scum getting a Dayvig isn't an example of scum getting a Dayvig...wtf, dude?
Is it really that "common" I've never seen it happen.

Ditto this. "Not that uncommon" is not "Once, as a role sorta like, but not really something that kills someone during the day." If you're gonna make an outlandish reach, you may as well have your evidence to support the attack. I've never seen a scum dayvig. This was also d1, so that rules out something like inventor or anything with a gunsmith type ability passing out a one time use dayvig, or anything of that nature.

[Shadow1psc]

Wasn't MoI very intrigued about overkill?

Who was it that suggested LMP could've been scum who sent the NK in?

Me.

[Shadow1psc]

No, he was referring to this i'm pretty sure...

shot someone else who didn't die which should've been your first post today if true, or shot no one which *also* should've been your first post today if true

I'm not sure either of these statements are true. Why should I claim these things if it helps the scum to know the answers and doesn't help us?

Why would it help them but not us? Scum already know whether or not they shot xvart. Scum already know they didn't shoot Magna. We all know there's still the unexplained N1 diddin kill.

I don't see the "secret information" you're afraid of having scum have here.

Occam's Razor - LMP is simply the scum sending in the kills

[Shadow1psc]

lolwut? I'm pretty much confirmed town. In the wedding, I confirmed table seating before anyone posted in code, because I chose the seating. Also, wut @ your claim? I'm pretty sure LMP is scum, and only claimed the kill on CK incase someone watched CK/tracked LMP. It was an unprovoked gambit.

As far as others' questions, no I have no other powers. I thought about hinting at them to maybe draw a night kill, but eh, frankly there are bigger fish to fry no matter what.

[Shadow1psc]

Well, if you would choose to believe my flavor, ability, and alignment don't pretty much scream Lannister, then you've got bigger problems. You think they'd give wedding planning of a Lannister wedding to a Stark?

[Shadow1psc]

Everyone hated Joffery. There's no proof that Olenna actually poisoned him, it's merely hinted at. I don't actually think she'd screw her grandaughter out of being queen though. @pops: no. I've asked the mod what would have happened if I had been dead come the wedding, i imagine someone else would have gotten the honor.

[Shadow1psc]

I did not, in fact get a pm night 2. Interesting.

[Shadow1psc]

The mod decided to leave me in the dark regarding your question, LMP.

[Shadow1psc]

I don't see how me not getting your wave automatically implies I'm scum either. I don't doubt you're who you are or think you're scum, I simply

didn't get a PM

. Why would I lie about that? What scum motivation is there?

[Shadow1psc]

VOTE: Setael

L-1.

[Shadow1psc]

Either way he has to be around to pick a champion, so it's not like we'd be getting anything done. I imagine the consensus is that we're lynching him regardless, and nothing he says will really change that (he had plenty of time to make any kind of relevant information posting, and just freely admitted to using his time in another game, so this one couldn't have been as pressing to him).

[Shadow1psc]

2) I don't believe that the scumteam has no goons; for that reason, Setael or Thor flipping a scum PR as opposed to goon would make me MORE suspicious of dana. (Otherwise, what's the point of giving the role cop VT/goon results?) That said, I have no reason to suspect dana beyond low activity and PoE. And his suggesting he sacrifice himself read as townish.

What about my observations towards Dana at the end of D2? He was acting pretty scummy. If you need me to go dig them back up, I will, but I'd like your take on it given this quote.

To tack on to this, Dana's post

screamed

insincere to me. Like "Hey i'm gonna offer myself up as a sacrifice for town points, even though there's already a plan in motion." I don't think anyone mentioned dana as a lynch option or champion option, and he just kinda waltzed in, didn't provide much except a contrived martyr situation, and ducked away. I dunno, that didn't sit well with me TS.

[Shadow1psc]

REMINDER

Today the lynch will proceed as normal. Yeah, someone will get a majority as normal blah blah blah, you vote in the usual format.One majority is reached the thread will be locked. Then the Lynched Player will choose a champion via PM. The only restriction will be it cannot be the first person to vote him, as that player will also be choosing a champion, with him being unable to pick the lynched player (players may choose themselves though). These 2 champions will be announced in thread. These two champions will determine the lynchee's guilt.

A secret vote will take place to determine who is guilty with players voting for which champion they want to win. If the lynchee's champion wins (recieves more votes) then the other champion will die and the player who reached majority will be saved. If however his champion is defeated, then both the lynched player AND his champion (assuming they're not the same person) will die. The only person who may not vote on the duel is the person who was 'lynched'.

I had to read this twice to make sure too, but

We're voting for Benmage's champion

. The champion with the most votes win. This means, we

do not vote Thor. Voting Benmage's champion means Thor loses, and thus dies, along with Seteal.

[Shadow1psc]

TL;DR

When the champions face off,

vote for benmage's champion

.

[Shadow1psc]

Nexus was an obvious kill, Andrius was... an interesting one. Why not Benmage first? Maybe paranoia. Either way, I'm pretty sure an explanation on Setael's part is waaaaay in order.

VOTE: Setael

[Shadow1psc]

It could have been a number of things, including saved extra stark kills (poison, assassin, other) maybe. I don't see any benefit of Zdenek killing Andrius, and I believe the Stark kill would have been crazy to have not been Nexus. They needed to start mowing down town power, and probably assumed we'd have to take care of the SK for them.

[Shadow1psc]

Bunnylover, LynchMePls:

What happens if your target is hit by more than one killer?

@Shadow: I disagree. Confirmed-town-Andrius makes perfect sense as a Stark kill. Nexus only really makes sense as an SK kill -- Stark don't need to care about Nexus as long as he's continually roleblocking Zdenek, and they could easily shoot him in the event Zdenek gets lynched. The only reason I can see for Stark to want to kill Nexus is if there's only two of them left -- Setael + someone else -- and they're scared of the final Stark getting roleblocked after Setael gets lynched.

If that's the case, I think LMP still makes sense as a killing role that isn't vig (IE, stark, SK). Why would LL be SK, why would a lyncher have an SK target?

[Shadow1psc]

Hey cow, can you do a little dance for us :3

[Shadow1psc]

Yeah Setael, what with the not-picking Thor bizniss?

Your silence on the matter is telling.

What silence? I addressed this. If none of you bother to read my post today, at least read it after I flip.

Yeah, that's not a valid excuse when it was stated numerous times that no matter what side

Thor

was on, Thor was dying. You should have picked Thor regardless, there was no "Well, maybe they'll kill Magua" when I'm pretty sure everyone but Thor and yourself thinks he's town.

[Shadow1psc]

Meaning, of course, that the only reason to not pick Thor was to save yourself one more night.

[Shadow1psc]

Did you read my post shadow? Please explain how you can discount magua's scumminess so easily.

Because you blatantly acted anti-town. Magua also claimed a kill that was obviously non-stark, and he goes uncountered.

[Shadow1psc]

vote: Bunnylover

You've played scummy all game and you weren't even on the Setael wagon. Bad bunny.

Are we just ignoring this post? This is monumentally bad no matter how you look at it really. The most you could downplay this is WIFOM. Coupled with the fact though that his next post doesn't really acknowledge the faux pas with so much as a 'whoops', this really doesn't strike me as genuine as TS got from it.

[Shadow1psc]

Having said that, I'm still not convinced on LMP. I think there is way too much town killing power. This is one of those things, where in a worst case scenario, Stark could have lost like n2. We have a 3-way confirmable group and a 4th confirmable friendly Lannister. Plus the normal set of town power, this is a really heavy game. Granted, I don't know if this is par for the course in the 'series' at this point, no one else seems to be making a fuss over the insane amount of killing power town had, but

dayum

.

[Shadow1psc]

Like I said, it's WIFOM. Is it intentional? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm just saying it didn't look as genuine as TS originally pointed out (to me). I'm not sure who this speaks more about, either.

[Shadow1psc]

I can actually relate to that Locke, the problem is there's confirmed towns running around who are going to take a very methodical direction to pegging the final scum. Logically, we had it narrowed down to very few choices and I wasn't one of them, nor even close. I'm not anywhere near confirmed, but I'm a little farther up on the scale ahead of people like Setael, suspected SKs, and people with nothing to show for actions so far, in what looks like a power heavy game.

[Shadow1psc]

Unfortunately, it's entirely WIFOM, like if Setael had made a list of scum and town reads before dying.